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VincentASM
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I don't think it's been mentioned but I think one thing that helped Awakening's numbers was the amount of advertising that went into it.

It has, but not nearly enough. Marketing sells games. Having a good series reputation does too, but marketing is the biggest factor- how else do you explain sales figures for abominations like E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial?

Quality of a game certainly helps thanks to word of mouth, but the presence of rabid fanboys does dilute the meaningfulness of that a little and Awakening certainly has a lot to fanboy about. Its flaws are also only apparent if you think about them (which the game encourages you not to do), so they weren't obvious to a lot of people who now complain about them at first. I could write multiple essays on any one of the problems with Awakening's story alone, but I still loved it on my first playthrough.

Anyway, other than the fact that world building is completely different than having a varied environment (Awakening isn't even the best here- Volcano, Desert, Swamp, Ruins and Castle levels are hardly exclusive to it), a world fleshed out (minimally) through inference alone is not a very fleshed out world. Spoilers for pretyt much every FE, by the way.

So Awakening's villains are all completely evil because their people have been persecuted (completely off camera by someone who doesn't even have a name) and they want revenge? They just happen to have a country with which to raise armies and be evil. FE4's villains (the main ones) have also been persecuted for generations, but the reason they're in power is because someone who shared their ancestry was born into power and was willing to do anything to end the persecution in the name of peace and unity, and they took advantage of that. Where has Validar ever worked to get his job (fighting heroes aside)?

So Grima is a bone-grinding dragon who flies around and summons zombies to turn the world into a desolate wasteland? Medeus is a former good guy tasked with guarding his fallen people. After sitting around for a thousand years witnessing humanity's persecution of his people, he formed an army to try to create an empire so dragons could be restored to power. When has Grima ever had a reason for grinding bones (Medeus's reason doesn't count- that's SD's world building. Awakening needs to do its own, or at least directly acknowledge what came before it)?

So the Grimleal worship Grima and the Ylisseans worship Naga for power alone, despite the fact that neither seem to have it? In Gaiden (yes, I'm holding up Gaiden above Awakening), the deities that are worshiped both actually have power, and we see what that power can do. There's also a short commentary on the differences between the cultures that arose due to the separate worship- when does Awakening ever talk about the actual differences between its religions other than who is worshiped (Chrom is a special case, as he seems to worship Emmeryn)?

So Awakening has a few wars in the past that we don't know much about- not even how long ago they occurred (those in-game ones are not historical events, which is what are being discusses). Back to FE4, we have a complex record detailing not only how and when the presently existing countries were created, but also what conditions led up to their creation, and even to an extent what conditions led up to those conditions. There are also quite a few more countries, and their relationships are quite a bit more complex than "you attacked us, we hate you". When does Awakening ever talk about what the Grimleal were doing back in the glory days, or how the nameless First Exalt defeated him (beyond "he used Falchion")?

Chrom won an alliance with Ferox by sharing a common enemy? Roy won an alliance with Etruria by cleaning out their corrupt government and reinstating the exiled Prince. Chrom and Lucina thwarted an assassination on their close family member? Hector and Eliwood thwarted an assassination on the Prince of an enemy nation. Validar sends equipment to help you defeat a single roadblock of his? Arvis gives you leave to take over the world for him, and then steals it from you. Walhart's tactician tried to betray his "master" to steal power for himself? Manfroy completely subjugated his and ruled through him. The bad guys betrayed someone they were pretending to help? No duh, that's what bad guys do. It's only happened in like every FE game ever at some point- Orson even joined your team for a chapter. When has Awakening ever gone beyond single-trope plot points?

Again, sales reflect marketing. Not game quality.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Again, sales reflect marketing. Not game quality.

I can't believe you say this with a straight face, it like saying a turd can be worth gold if it just polished enough regardless that it still a turd in the end. The first FE game for the NES has a poor start until mouth to mouth turn it around, good game will sell not always but will most definitely. Marketing does factor in the sales but quality count the most.

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Are you implying that E.T. wasn't a turd? Viral marketing, 1.5 million copies sold (in 1982, when the market was a lot smaller than it is now) and widely recognized as the worst game of all time.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi
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Are you implying that E.T. wasn't a turd? Viral marketing, 1.5 million copies sold (in 1982, when the market was a lot smaller than it is now) and widely recognized as the worst game of all time.

Of course it a turd, that why it was regarded as one of the biggest video game commercial failure in the history that caused the downfall of Atari and video game industrial until Nintendo came and fixed things up.

The only reason why initial sales are high is because of the connection to the film, afterword there was mass returns of the game and many unsold copies left on the shelf.

Edited by Awakener_
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I am not really certain this is true evidence, but it does seems to be a correlation that the main characters of a series are forced onto a map. Specifically, they are forced onto a map in a central location or frontal location. If you look at FE13 you can see Chrom's forced location is pretty common with this theme. In that regard, since it was brought up about this Kamui person I think at the very least Kamui will be a lead character.

Further speculation might be the fact that Robing made it into the smash game and Chrom did not. I am saying this simply because it might show that this newest FE game will make your avatar character be the main character rather than being an OP side kick.

I guess what I am saying is that I am hopeful for THE spotlight main character to be a robin archetype.

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Again, sales reflect marketing. Not game quality.

Wrong for reasons already mentioned by Awakener. Marketing can get you places, but your product has to be good in order to get farther than that. If your product is garbage than sales will slowly decline. Your product needs features and benefits to be marketable.

Let me repeat this again.

Fire Emblem Awakening tripled the sales of EVERY single other Fire Emblem game and has the BEST reviews across the board compared to its predecessors. That is a fact.

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Fire Emblem Awakening . . . and has the BEST reviews across the board compared to its predecessors. That is a fact.

>_> mmm...........

Edited by Vorena
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As it is the best selling and highest rated Fire Emblem game ever, I fail to see the incompetency of characters compared to the Avatar and the shit world building.

Virion defeats the Avatar at a strategy game of chess, Frederick and Lon'qu defeat the avatar in sparring contests. Lissa constantly pranks the Avatar. Hell the Avatar is pretty much the bad guy who only manages to resist bc of his friends. And by the way his strategies don't always work. Just ask poor Emmeryn.

As for the world building you fight across deserts, on trees, in fields, over water, in castles, and on the back of a freakin DRAGON. How many previous games have allowed you to fight on the back of a FREAKIN DRAGON. That's not Shit world building at all. In the previous games the worlds were okay at best. But every game was just a rehash of the last one except for Genealogy's parent mechanics and FE12. But even FE12 was just FE11 with an avatar.

Awakening's success eclipses every other Fire Emblem game before it. Impressive considering how Shadow Dragon almost destroyed Fire Emblem forever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Emblem_Awakening

Oh boy...

Let's start with this first bit, you're using what happens in support conversations instead of actual plot. The reason I say everyone else is incompetent is because nobody in the entire main plot does anything without his approval. It's always his strategies that save the day and every other character is accepting of them willingly, including foreign kings.

Second, you don't know what I mean by world building. In pretty much every other Fire Emblem I could tell you the political tensions around the world, why they are like that, how the villagers in each country were affected by the war, how the villagers lived their lives, what the history of each of the villains is. Awakening doesn't do any of these as well as previous Fire Emblems.

Also, it's a shame to say, but popularity determines review scores a lot of the time, so I don't accept Awakening as the best simply because it was well marketed.

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Also, it's a shame to say, but popularity determines review scores a lot of the time, so I don't accept Awakening as the best simply because it was well marketed.

I always thought of game reviews from notable professional groups as measuring how well a game lives up to a baseline standard. A game getting say a 10 in music does not mean it is the best of all game music. Getting a 10 in music means the game has reached a minimal standard for reaching that score. A game that scores like a 8-10 is generally a good quality game. Does this game mean it is revolutionary in design or offering something unique to the gaming world? No.

If a person is an avid gamer I expect they might use the reviews as a guide. Say as a person who typically plays RPG games I am looking for a survival game to play. Since I have no experience in survival games I am merely looking for a decent game to have fun with. I feel I can go use a professional game review to assess the quality of the game before playing it. As in I expect them to assess the game and say that compared to other games of this genre and quality it delivers X/10 compared to the rest of those games.

Despite me disliking FE13 the most out of the FE series I still recognize that FE13 is a good quality game. In terms of content, it certainly does out do its predecessors I feel in a number of areas. There is certainly a story going on tying the game together. The customization of this game is ridiculous. Anywhere from how you build your units skills and class down to having some rudimentary control over a main character's appearance. The music is decent enough with the option for cut-scenes and voice acting (in Jap and Eng how rare is that!). A ton of in-game options (skip all combat), get to see the combat from multiple angles, and such. There is a good library of DLC and extra content to look into. I think this game has the most extensive support system of any FE game so far. There is a more interactive multiplayer than previous FE games.

If you stop to look at how much content FE13 has I would say it comes out to be good quality game overall worthy of those higher rankings. Now, in terms of the FE universe the game is falling short of several aspects. But, as a game its quite good. Are there better video games out there, yes. But, against several criteria that I believe is expected of today's video games FE13 reaches those baseline criteria. Anything more than that you cannot get out of a game review. You simply have to experience it yourself or judge based off of general popularity. Generally, a game that is very popular will probably be worth looking at. Your list of best games will obviously be different than another person's.

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Mystery was negatively affected because the avatar existed, what are you on about.

That was a slip, I meant to write the my unit. I do understand why People didn't like the my unit in that game. However, I think the My unit was fine but it actually did things to bother fans.

On the other hand the story Awakening was telling was awakenings story and I have no problems with it.

I am always going to be baffled by why people gave DAMN about Chrom. He wasn't in it a lot, that was the game, he didn't exist before.

In terms of sales effecting the games quality, I totally agree that isn't a reflection of quality. However, I do think on a small series like Fire Emblem it's not like Nintendo paid of review sties. The reviews mean that the game to a mass market, not the 25 people who are mad that a character they didn't know before didn't get enough time in the spot light enjoyed it better then previous entries. That doesn't stop you from liking another game better because games are subjective. The mass market spoke and they want the features that a lot of people here seem to hate. That means you guys just need to expect you won't like future Fire Emblem games, get your english patches and learn that you'll only get to play them.

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Oh boy...

Let's start with this first bit, you're using what happens in support conversations instead of actual plot. The reason I say everyone else is incompetent is because nobody in the entire main plot does anything without his approval. It's always his strategies that save the day and every other character is accepting of them willingly, including foreign kings.

Second, you don't know what I mean by world building. In pretty much every other Fire Emblem I could tell you the political tensions around the world, why they are like that, how the villagers in each country were affected by the war, how the villagers lived their lives, what the history of each of the villains is. Awakening doesn't do any of these as well as previous Fire Emblems.

Also, it's a shame to say, but popularity determines review scores a lot of the time, so I don't accept Awakening as the best simply because it was well marketed.

The support conversations are part of the plot. Emmeryn's "death" is part of the plot. The avatar losing the fire emblem to Validar is part of the main plot. His plans don't start working until the second war and even then He's not perfect. He hands over the serie's most treasured artifact to the bad guy.

I understand full well what you mean by world building. Since you couldn't follow along with the political intrigue of Awakening allow me to spell it out:

1st war: Gangrel wants revenge for War crimes committed against him by Emmeryn's father. Regna Ferox joins Chrom thanks to a political maneuver beforehand where Chrom assisted the Khan of East Ferox. Chrom wins

2nd war: Walhart turns his conquering sights on Ylisse, Regna ferox, and Plegia. Ferox asks for help from Chrom citing their previous alliance in the first war. Plegia agrees to help for some unknown reason sending ships and funds. Walhart is defeated.

3rd war: Plegia betrays Ylisse for past war crimes and religious conflict stemming from the battle of Grima and Naga. The truth of the avatar comes out which explains the symbols on his clothing and the back of his hand details that have been around since the beginning of the game. Chrom wins again.

Historical events: Every war between Plegia and Ylisse. Religious differences between Plegia and Ylisse. Ancient conflicts between Grima and Naga.

Political interest: Regna Ferox and Ylissean alliance Thanks to Chrom's efforts. An assassination attempt on Emmeryn thwarted. Validar's move to only support the 2nd war by sending boats and wealth while withholding troops. Walhart's tactician's attempt to usurp his master. Plegia's betrayal of Ylisse leading to the third war.

Popularity Scores

I'll concede that reviews aren't perfect but consider the fact that it got better reviews than every game across the boards. FE7 had fantastic reviews as well. Are we to assume that it is overrated bc it's reviews are all great? No. FEA has both triple the sales and reviews and that speaks volumes.

Edited by Shadow Knight
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The support conversations are part of the plot. Emmeryn's "death" is part of the plot. The avatar losing the fire emblem to Validar is part of the main plot. His plans don't start working until the second war and even then He's not perfect. He hands over the serie's most treasured artifact to the bad guy.

I understand full well what you mean by world building. Since you couldn't follow along with the political intrigue of Awakening allow me to spell it out:

1st war: Gangrel wants revenge for War crimes committed against him by Emmeryn's father. Regna Ferox joins Chrom thanks to a political maneuver beforehand where Chrom assisted the Khan of East Ferox. Chrom wins

2nd war: Walhart turns his conquering sights on Ylisse, Regna ferox, and Plegia. Ferox asks for help from Chrom citing their previous alliance in the first war. Plegia agrees to help for some unknown reason sending ships and funds. Walhart is defeated.

3rd war: Plegia betrays Ylisse for past war crimes and religious conflict stemming from the battle of Grima and Naga. The truth of the avatar comes out which explains the symbols on his clothing and the back of his hand details that have been around since the beginning of the game. Chrom wins again.

Historical events: Every war between Plegia and Ylisse. Religious differences between Plegia and Ylisse. Ancient conflicts between Grima and Naga.

Political interest: Regna Ferox and Ylissean alliance Thanks to Chrom's efforts. An assassination attempt on Emmeryn thwarted. Validar's move to only support the 2nd war by sending boats and wealth while withholding troops. Walhart's tactician's attempt to usurp his master. Plegia's betrayal of Ylisse leading to the third war.

Popularity Scores

I'll concede that reviews aren't perfect but consider the fact that it got better reviews than every game across the boards. FE7 had fantastic reviews as well. Are we to assume that it is overrated bc it's reviews are all great? No. FEA has both triple the sales and reviews and that speaks volumes.

The support conversations are optional and have no bearing on how the game plays out. And yeah, sure, sometimes his plans fail, but it's not like anyone else has a solution, the Avatar ends up fixing it in the end.

Also the political side is rather simple compared to FE9, 10, 7 and 4, it's mostly "these are the bad guys, they try to kill the heroes, solve the problem." The Tellius games had themes of different perspectives, prejudice and manipulation. FE7 had conspiracy and corruption. FE4 had conspiracy, corruption, betrayal and revenge. Also it doesn't change the fact that you really know nothing about the citizens of Ylisse, if houses or base convos were still a thing then they could have remedied this, but this was one of my favourite things about world building in last games and it's absent.

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The support conversations are optional and have no bearing on how the game plays out. And yeah, sure, sometimes his plans fail, but it's not like anyone else has a solution, the Avatar ends up fixing it in the end.

Also the political side is rather simple compared to FE9, 10, 7 and 4, it's mostly "these are the bad guys, they try to kill the heroes, solve the problem." The Tellius games had themes of different perspectives, prejudice and manipulation. FE7 had conspiracy and corruption. FE4 had conspiracy, corruption, betrayal and revenge. Also it doesn't change the fact that you really know nothing about the citizens of Ylisse, if houses or base convos were still a thing then they could have remedied this, but this was one of my favourite things about world building in last games and it's absent.

In Fire Emblem Awakening you have the Grimleal who were hunted down and persecuted by Chrom's father which is why they want revenge. Just as it is mentioned that Gangrel went mad bc of the actions of Chrom's father. Emmeryn even considers handing over the Fire Emblem to Plegia for this. Walhart's tactician attempts to betray him on several occasions. At the beginning MU stabs Chrom possibly betraying him.

In past Fire Emblem games it's obvious who the good and bad guys are. FE11=Medeus. FE12=Hardin and Medeus. Only Radiant Dawn had the prejudice and mature idea that there are no black and white sides. Hell even it was pretty obvious who the bad guys are. The BLACK KNIGHT, The Goddess of Restriction Ashera who wears Black. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out who the bad guys are.

And we never meet any of the citizens of Archaneia and get to know them personally. We only hear about their suffering at the hands of one tyrant or another. Same as in awakening. In fact there are more interactions in Awakening between Chrom and random citizens than in the other games.

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In Fire Emblem Awakening you have the Grimleal who were hunted down and persecuted by Chrom's father which is why they want revenge. Just as it is mentioned that Gangrel went mad bc of the actions of Chrom's father. Emmeryn even considers handing over the Fire Emblem to Plegia for this. Walhart's tactician attempts to betray him on several occasions. At the beginning MU stabs Chrom possibly betraying him.

In past Fire Emblem games it's obvious who the good and bad guys are. FE11=Medeus. FE12=Hardin and Medeus. Only Radiant Dawn had the prejudice and mature idea that there are no black and white sides. Hell even it was pretty obvious who the bad guys are. The BLACK KNIGHT, The Goddess of Restriction Ashera who wears Black. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out who the bad guys are.

And we never meet any of the citizens of Archaneia and get to know them personally. We only hear about their suffering at the hands of one tyrant or another. Same as in awakening. In fact there are more interactions in Awakening between Chrom and random citizens than in the other games.

Have you actually played other Fire Emblem games?

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Let me repeat this again.

Fire Emblem Awakening tripled the sales of EVERY single other Fire Emblem game and has the BEST reviews across the board compared to its predecessors. That is a fact.

No it didn't... Mystery of the Emblem sold close to 1 million in Japan alone. Awakening sold close to 1.5 million worldwide.

And also, we get awful lie that Shadow Dragon destroyed the series.

Shadow Dragon sold more than Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Those two games were near commercial failures. Shadow Dragon wouldn't exist if it weren't for the awful sales of the Tellius games requiring IS to cash in on nostalgia by creating two remakes.

Man, at least do some fact checking.

This guy clearly hasn't played the games if he can claim that we never meet any of the citizens of Archanea. Or claim that Awakening had any sort of political intrigue, more than Genealogy. -_-

Also, using vgchartz... Come on man, have some self respect. Shadow sold close to 300k in Japan alone according to sales data that was posted in one of the topics still on the front page in the SMTxFE sub forum. Even your previous vgchartz says Shadow Dragon outsold both Tellius games...

Edited by Ranger Jack Walker
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Wrong for reasons already mentioned by Awakener. Marketing can get you places, but your product has to be good in order to get farther than that. If your product is garbage than sales will slowly decline. Your product needs features and benefits to be marketable.

Let me repeat this again.

Fire Emblem Awakening tripled the sales of EVERY single other Fire Emblem game and has the BEST reviews across the board compared to its predecessors. That is a fact.

This isn't necessarily true, depending on if you put them on a level playing field and only take japans numbers (the only country all games have been released), if my memory serves me right, awakening sold about 500,000 copies there, while the best selling is fe 3, mystery of the emblem with about 750,000 copies, and is the most critically acclaimed there, if my memory serves me right.

Edit: also Shadow Dragons numbers where better than that of what of either tellius game.

Edited by that one person
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Of course it a turd, that why it was regarded as one of the biggest video game commercial failure in the history that caused the downfall of Atari and video game industrial until Nintendo came and fixed things up.

The only reason why initial sales are high is because of the connection to the film, afterword there was mass returns of the game and many unsold copies left on the shelf.

Being based on a film alone didn't make the game sell. Being hyped up for being based on a film did. See? Advertising.

Awakening does have its merits, and they certainly contributed to its sales. They do not negate its flaws, even if the flaws aren't great enough to noticeably impact sales. Most people who are used to Nintendo fare and haven't played a FE before might not even notice them. They're still there.

The support conversations are part of the plot. Emmeryn's "death" is part of the plot. The avatar losing the fire emblem to Validar is part of the main plot. His plans don't start working until the second war and even then He's not perfect. He hands over the serie's most treasured artifact to the bad guy.

I understand full well what you mean by world building. Since you couldn't follow along with the political intrigue of Awakening allow me to spell it out:

No, the support conversations are character development. While that may be a good thing, it's a different thing from plot. And it's pretty clear that Validar took the Emblem by force, that's not a mark against Avatar's goodness.

Nobody's denying that Awakening has "political intrigue", its is just the worst of the series. It also happens to have poor execution: there's nothing inherently wrong about a story in which a previously aggressive nation is facing attacks from the nation it was oppressing, and it has a lot of potential. Awakening tried to tell that tale using black and white morality, with no development for the nations themselves and liberal glossing over of both Ylisse's flaws and even moreso Plegia's virtues. There's a line in a support about how there might be some nice Plegians? No, that stuff should be front and center and it's not.

In past Fire Emblem games it's obvious who the good and bad guys are. FE11=Medeus. FE12=Hardin and Medeus. Only Radiant Dawn had the prejudice and mature idea that there are no black and white sides. Hell even it was pretty obvious who the bad guys are. The BLACK KNIGHT, The Goddess of Restriction Ashera who wears Black. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out who the bad guys are.

And we never meet any of the citizens of Archaneia and get to know them personally. We only hear about their suffering at the hands of one tyrant or another. Same as in awakening. In fact there are more interactions in Awakening between Chrom and random citizens than in the other games.

OK, let's look at Arvis again. Ignoring all the stuff he did to help you in G1 (and it's implied that he legitimately wanted to let you live, but it would be too destructive to his plans), G2 spends many chapters angsting about what a jerk he is. Bad guy? Definitely. But when you actually encounter him, he's a miserable husk of a man who's been crushed by his own dream. At this point the game makes no judgement on him and simply presents him for the player to decide. Awakening? Everyone's evil through and through, cause or not.

FE5, there are plenty of jerks and plenty of nice guys in the mix- but they're not segregated along military lines. Leif has a good number of scumbags on his team, and there are several noble folks- or at least ones who are doing what they think is right- on the enemy side. The entire premise of the story is about Leif losing his naivety about this and coming to terms with this. And of course, you, the player, even get to spare enemies, should you so choose.

FE8, Lyon's personality changes dramatically depending on which route you play. Fomortiis is obviously involved, but the game makes it deliberately unclear how much is his doing and how much is actually Lyon, when they're lying, etc. Together with their personal attachment to the protagonists (Validar is Avatar's father? Never matters) they're the most dynamic villain in the series and are still excellent fuel for discussion. Awakening's villains have a single motive/excuse at best, but it's clear that they have no plans or intentions for the protagonists beyond defeating them.

Having a complex villain is not the same as having a hidden villain. While initially keeping a villain's vileness hidden is a tactic, it does not necessarily equate complexity and having it visible from the start does not equate simplicity.

Never meet the citizens? Have you ever played FE5 or 8? 5 is all about putting nobility and commoners together and asking them to understand one another. 8 primarily expresses the history of Grado through its inhabitants, showing why they remain loyal to their country (as opposed to just having a guy who says, "sorry folks, can't join you 'cause I've got me country" or something). FE has done this before.

If you want to keep arguing that Awakening has good world building, please answer my questions from the post at the top of this page.

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Shadow Dragon sold more than Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Those two games were near commercial failures. Shadow Dragon wouldn't exist if it weren't for the awful sales of the Tellius games requiring IS to cash in on nostalgia by creating two remakes.

This isn't an entirely accurate assessment. The DS had a much larger install base than the Gamecube. PoR could be said to have sold about as expected, while RD sold a bit under, but not terribly compared to expectations for the series at the time.

Really, the Tellius series' sales have gotten seriously exaggerated over the years. It's gone from "about average" to "poor" to "commercial failures." People just keep telephoning it in now and everyone believes Tellius failed, which simply isn't true.

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I'm on the side that believes sales do not reflect the quality of the games. The Tellius games, as mentioned, didn't sell well, but they got nice reviews. PoR got an 85/100 or something close to that, and RD had a slightly lower rating. If PoR had had a better release window (the end of the GC's lifespan, really, Nintendo?) and both games had gotten better marketing, I bet you anything they'd have sold much better. Perhaps not as much as Awakening, but they still would've sold well. If you don't let people know about your product, even if it's good quality, how can they decide to buy it?

Many people in Japan didn't even recognize RD Ike when he was revealed for Smash. I know a bunch of people, including myself, didn't recognize Ike when he showed up in Brawl as well.

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I'm on the side that believes sales do not reflect the quality of the games. The Tellius games, as mentioned, didn't sell well, but they got nice reviews. PoR got an 85/100 or something close to that, and RD had a slightly lower rating. If PoR had had a better release window (the end of the GC's lifespan, really, Nintendo?) and both games had gotten better marketing, I bet you anything they'd have sold much better. Perhaps not as much as Awakening, but they still would've sold well. If you don't let people know about your product, even if it's good quality, how can they decide to buy it?

Many people in Japan didn't even recognize RD Ike when he was revealed for Smash. I know a bunch of people, including myself, didn't recognize Ike when he showed up in Brawl as well.

Least they didn't release PoR after the GC was already "done". Like how Thracia was made on the SNES when the 64 was already out.

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Least they didn't release PoR after the GC was already "done". Like how Thracia was made on the SNES when the 64 was already out.

True that, that would've just made the situation worse for Tellius...

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