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Anacybele

The Support System

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Yeah,the Chrom//Female Avatar support was one of the dumbest in the game and is a reason I don't like that pairing.

But this isn't a shipping war thread, so moving on.

I also agree that everyone x everyone shouldn't be a thing. Even in real life, a soldier isn't going to talk to and befriend every single person in his squadron, or even want to. It just doesn't work realistically AND it lowers the quality of the conversations.

Yeah, I'm one for realism. I like things being realistic because then I can take it more seriously and get more immersed and hooked to the plot.

I also like the idea of keeping S supports even if they don't automatically make the characters married. It still gives you a whole extra conversation!

This. Miriel and Lon Qu' could have been one of my favorite supports if it didn't end in marriage.

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I actually like my idea that I put on another thread. Marriage should return, but a way to upgrade is being that the support goes beyond S and the couple learns from each other. It's a way for them to interact as husband and wife, not just courting.

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I'm fine with having everyone be able to support with everyone, because I don't believe that the quality of supports will change. I've played both Awakening and the games before it, and in all games many of the supports were quite lackluster. The problem was that this hurts the games with fewer supports MORE, because it's more likely that a character with only a few supports will have no good ones at all. The more supports there are, the more likely they are to strike gold. I don't think minimizing the supports will lead to an increase in quality.

Really the only thing I didn't like was how many of the supports between men and women didn't seem to build up to a romantic relationship. You'd have two people acting as platonic to each other as possible until it's suddenly revealed that they've been wanting to jump each other's bones the entire time. It's really annoying for some characters who basically say they loved their partner at first sight in their S support, but can possibly marry someone else.

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Eh, I'm not really sure what I want from the support system. Each support system to now has had its advantages and disadvantages and I can't really think of a "perfect" way to do it.

In the end it'll likely be the same or extremely similar to Awakening's support system, anyway.

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I liked Awakenings support system definetly the easiest to understand (the game pretty much forces it on you) but I liked fideling with the marriage options and seeing what skills I could pass down to the child units plus the numbers of support conversations themselves are through the roof. In past, FE's I always thought the support system kinda sucked and I always skipped over it because you had to have units next to each other on the map which alot of times lent itself to bad situations (lookin at you FE7 with 3 Lords you have to use in each map) oh and you had no way of telling how far along you were in leveling up the support. PoR did it pretty well in my book the only thing you needing to do being deploying units on the same map for certain chapters and the conversations themselves were deep and revealed great parts of the story you would otherwise miss out on. Examples I can think of are Ike and Titania's A support where she confesses that she loved his dad. Another being Jill and Mists A support which actually effects whether or not she turns on you in one of the later chapters.

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I think awakening was moving into the right direction. I think they just need to make more people able to talk to each other, maybe not everyone in order to save quality but more choices. I like seeing unlikely friends join, people make allies with new people, I for sure don't want to see everyone's majority have to the other sex. Let girls talk to girls and vise versa.

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I'd like it if S support was just any support that changed someones ending, not just marriage. So If they get a support and realize say someone is their long lost sibling and they want to hang out with them after the game, that'd be an S support.

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I like seeing unlikely friends join, people make allies with new people, I for sure don't want to see everyone's majority have to the other sex. Let girls talk to girls and vise versa.

This is exactly what I think. While it's true that some male characters in Awakening could support with other Males it was almost overshadowed by all the women they could support with. Like Stahl, I think he could support with Kellum and Donnel and then basically EVERY female. I would definitely like to see a more balanced support.

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I prefer RD's support system, since I can pair who I like, rather than the game limiting me to certain pairs.

As for decent support conversations, I couldn't care less about them.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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I'm fine with having everyone be able to support with everyone, because I don't believe that the quality of supports will change. I've played both Awakening and the games before it, and in all games many of the supports were quite lackluster. The problem was that this hurts the games with fewer supports MORE, because it's more likely that a character with only a few supports will have no good ones at all. The more supports there are, the more likely they are to strike gold. I don't think minimizing the supports will lead to an increase in quality.

Really the only thing I didn't like was how many of the supports between men and women didn't seem to build up to a romantic relationship. You'd have two people acting as platonic to each other as possible until it's suddenly revealed that they've been wanting to jump each other's bones the entire time. It's really annoying for some characters who basically say they loved their partner at first sight in their S support, but can possibly marry someone else.

It's true that even earlier games with limited supports had subpar conversations, but at least they weren't as repetitive as the ones in FE13? Many of them involved us learning different parts of the character's backstory (eg Renault), and the ones which were very repetitive were mostly just the womanizer ones anyways. Whereas many of the supports in FE13 kind of just go along the same line.

As for the second problem, they kind of have to do that because of the fact that you can get A supports with everyone, but only one S support. This is actually one of the reasons I would prefer limited the number of supports a game. I mean, yes in the GBA games you would have had to play through the game 20 times to get to all the supports but you have to do that in FE13 too, to see all the S supports. I mean, on one hand you could say that if you're only concerned about the main supports rather than the declaration of love that is the S support, FE13 is way better in that aspect, but if you do care about seeing all the S supports, then can you imagine playing through the game 20 more times just to see a few more S supports each time? At least in the GBA games you'd see a lot more content every playthrough.

I also liked that you had to choose between supports for strategy, although definitely the FE9/13 method of building supports is much better than the GBA one.

I do like the idea of S-supports that are something other than just romance, but if you can have multiple of them, as was suggested, then couldn't that conflict, say if you got two romantic ones? You could step around that by blocking off certain S supports after you get one but still allowing others though, I suppose.

@NinjaMonkey- but FE13 only limited supports in a few instances?

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I agree with a mix of PoR and Awakening's styles, but I'd say more focus on the PoR style. First of all, keep it as "being in the same battle enough times"; that way, you can support who you want with each other without needing to compromise your strategy to do it. Second of all, start with a PoR-esque amount of supports, then expand it as much as possible while still keeping them quality. I'd rather have fewer supprots that make sense than have a ton of supports about PIES PIES PIES MARRIAGE AND PIES.

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This. Gameplay-wise, I like being able to pair any characters I want, but I dunno how many "Hello, good to see I'm not the only one fighting" I can tolerate now.

They could always make something like the parent conversations in Awakening, with one side having unique lines for the support while the other is just a placeholder to carry on the scenario. Still, I don't think they'll touch the support system right now after Awakening's success.

It probably will be exactly like Awakening's, I even expect S support/marriage to be back. Hopefully, they do introduce some trigger where after some development support other conversations are slightly tweaked to avoid awkward moments. Then again, Awakening's supports could be inconsistent even outside of specific character development (like Nowi liking animals in one support and then killing them for fun in another), probably due to multiple writers handling them.

I did enjoy Awakening's variety though. There were still backstory and character relevant supports, just thrown in alongside some filler ones, which always existed anyway. Back in Path of Radiance, I liked Mia, but all her supports were really generic. A large number of supports should at least avoid a situation like that.

Edited by NeonZ

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@NinjaMonkey- but FE13 only limited supports in a few instances?

The only person that can support with everyone in Awakening is the Avatar. Everyone else has a predetermined list of characters that they can support with.

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The only person that can support with everyone in Awakening is the Avatar. Everyone else has a predetermined list of characters that they can support with.

But at least they give some form of character development.

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Yeah,the Chrom//Female Avatar support was one of the dumbest in the game and is a reason I don't like that pairing.

But this isn't a shipping war thread, so moving on.

I also agree that everyone x everyone shouldn't be a thing. Even in real life, a soldier isn't going to talk to and befriend every single person in his squadron, or even want to. It just doesn't work realistically AND it lowers the quality of the conversations.

Yeah, I'm one for realism. I like things being realistic because then I can take it more seriously and get more immersed and hooked to the plot.

I also like the idea of keeping S supports even if they don't automatically make the characters married. It still gives you a whole extra conversation!

I agree, but another possibility is to increase the number of supports from 4 to 6 and to limit certain characters to a support level. I'll use Awakening as an example with E-S being the scale.

Chrom and Lissa are brother and sister so they have the potential to reach A support level which would be special bonds like brother sister. But Gaius and Chrom can only reach B support tops bc while they fight together in real life they are polar opposites and probably would not spend time together being a thief and a noble.

However while A supports represent the highest platonic rating, S supports stay with marriage bc they are the most powerful and they are the closest therefore they should be limited.

S supports would be limited to one person like Awakening, but A supports and B supports would also be limited forcing you to make harder decisions when choosing your units for battle. But I don't think 4 and 3 support levels are enough imo.

Edited by Shadow Knight

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Having almost unlimited supports was great in my opinion, coming from someone who likes to collect support convos and filling up the index.

Edited by Knight

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Having almost unlimited supports was great in my opinion, coming from someone who likes to collect support convos and filling up the index.

In Awakening aiming for 100% supports felt like a terrible waste of time though.... and all their support conversations had 2GB of text data and almost zero backstory.

Plus, more supports = more time needed for translation = delayed release. LOL

The best I'm hoping for is a support system still similar to Awakening but wherein characters can support up to C and B with most characters (A and S convos don't exist) and only A and S convos exist with a handful of characters.

That way most characters can still have bonds but not just unnatural ones like maybe Panne x Ricken (or something)

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But at least they give some form of character development.

Which is something I don't care about. The only thing I care about from supports is the support bonuses I receive.

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Which is something I don't care about. The only thing I care about from supports is the support bonuses I receive.

A lot of people would burn you at the stake for something like that. Woe betide the guy who "doesn't give a shit about the story..."

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I've recommended this in other threads but I would like a system that's affected by in game actions. I like that you can do supports with virtually everyone, but in this game, it should be limited based on the actions of the game. For example, if Kamui were to recruit the enemy brother of a unit, he can get an S support with that unit, but loses respect of a more nationalistic unit, limiting that support to a B. Or Kamui can choose to attack a castle of enemies or defend an ally's castle, attacking gets her an S support available to the Cain archetype, but defending gets an S support available to the Abel archetype.

This way all supports are in theory possible, but you can develop supports with different types of conversations. Also, supports can contain the events of the game, depending on the conversation and relationship. This would also allow for C conversations to be surface level, B conversations to be getting to know the person, A conversations about having romantic feelings and S conversations about falling in love. Considering the game is going to be all about choice, this would also tie nicely into the theme of the game.

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I was thinking another possibility is that viewing one conversation with one character would change the dialogue of one from a different character. That could tie in to the idea of limiting the maximum support level between certain units.

Another idea I had is that if one character starts a conversation with another character, that would lower the current support level between the first character and a different character not participating in the conversation. This would mean that S supports between characters can be potentially lost and that dialogue would be different the next time a conversation between the two can be viewed.

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I would rather that there be no marriage system this time round. Or at least, no children, because that made me want to reconsider parings just so i could get a better child with skills or classes that i prefer. Unlimited A supports sounds a bit too much, but i dont think it matters a whole lot.

My main hope is that the whole children stuff is scrapped. Pls

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I want... well, FE12-style support. No pairings whatsoever (the sudden skip from A to S is weird), and everyone can get all three levels provided the right cirucumstance.

And don't tie it with the marriage system. In FE13, everyone in the marriage system happens to have mostly opposite-gendered supports. This feels really weird. "I fear women, but most of my chats are with women." What?

Edited by nocturnal YL

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As long as there is no return to the older FE system of allowing each character a maximum number of supports out of a large pool of possible supports I will be happy. I absolutely detest the system where you can only have a total of 5 support levels on a single character.

Edited by Merric

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