Hold on, are wyverns actually dragons?

[Gradivus.]

the knight weighs too much which is why dracoknights cap speed at 23 and because the wyrm is lazy it doesnt attack,.

if new mystery were awakening style, there would be a "can dual strike with the mount" skill

Edited January 21, 2015 by Gradivus.

[RedEyedDrake]

Honestly, when you consider how much weaker the mounted Wyverns are in comparison to their unmounted counterparts it just reaches a point where it stops making sense. If these two kinds of Wyverns absolutely "must" be the "exact" same thing then the only way I can think of explaining this disperancy is that the mounted Wyverns are the domesticated result of breeding the unmounted ones for smaller size and a somewhat more docile behaviour, at least docile enough to allow being mounted. Hence why the ones that are not ridden are so much stronger.

In other words, the post-breeding wyverns would then be kind of like dogs that allow you to ride them while the pre-breeding ones like the ones seen in chapters 11 and 21 of FE3/12 are wolves that the barbarian clans tamed.

Continuing this train of thought, the original few Wyvern riders that actually succeeded in mounting the more tolerant few of the first Wyverns to ever be tamed must have blown the "modern" versions out of the water, riding the much larger versions that have 12 move rather than a "mere" 10 and all those nice perks. This would also mean that all of the Macedonian and Thracian Wyverns that their riders fly on, since unlike the previous example they are probably intended to actually be the exact same sort of creature, are hatched and raised in captivity for their entire life, being the result of artificial selection and all.

Edited February 23, 2015 by RedEyedDrake

[Gradivus.]

On FE12 chapter 21, the conversation at the start of the map suggests that the Wyverns found there are the same as the ones used by the Macedonian Dracoknights. A base conversation between Minerva and IIRC Catria says that Minerva had to tame a wyvern to ride on. I think that really proves that the Mount!Wyverns are the same as the Dragon!Wyverns and the lower speed cap comes from the knight and the armor that the Wyvern has on itself and the fact that Dracoknights can't like, use Fire Breath is probably because the Wyvern is proud of having a strong knight on itself, but isn't exactly convinced of the human wars, so it doesn't attack enemies, basically so it doesn't get attacked on itself for a thing that it essentially doesn't quite care about. It still is somewhat weird because the wyvern apparently helps the DK to tank hits, but realism in FE is a lost cause so yeah, I'll just deal with it and not concern myself about what wyverns actually are (and I'm 99% that they are dragons).

Edited January 21, 2015 by Gradivus.

[RedEyedDrake]

Actually, Minerva only says that she switched from riding a pegasus to riding a wyvern. A mount needing taming does not necessarily mean that said mount was caught in the wild, you know. And yes, I realize that, at least in the Kagaverse, the unmounted and the mounted wyverns are the same thing. But then again, dogs and wolves can be argued to be the same as well. They are close enough to produce offspring that can have offspring themselves, right? So my theory can still be valid.

Besides, Cherche's wyvern, Minerva, can apparently breath fire, at least that is what I heard being mentioned in supports between her and the male avatar. And if the mounted wyverns can still do so two thousand years into the future then the ones that the Macedonian and Thracian dragoons used as mounts could probably do so as well. Them not being able to do so in the game proper could be interpreted as either their tamers lacking the knowhow to get them to do so on command or as an outright case of gameplay and story segregation.

Edited February 23, 2015 by RedEyedDrake

[Gradivus.]

you've probably got a point about the wyvern whip thing (which is totally no master seal), but the conversation at the start of chapter 21 still very strongly implies it ("this is the wyverns' dale, the home to macedon's great wyverns."). Maybe she didn't personally get the wyvern from wilderness, but it likely is the same species.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Gradivus.

[RedEyedDrake]

Well, yeah. They do call both creatures wyverns nonetheless. The way I see it there are three ways to go about the details here.

Scenario #1:

If the estimated dates are to be believed then, by the time of the War of Liberation, at the end on which Anri faced Medeus with the Falchion in hand, around 1500 years have passed since the dragons have began showing first signs of degeneration and around 1250 did since Naga led the Divine tribe against the now-insane Earth tribe.

Assuming that there were some members of the Wyvern tribe living in Jugdral at the time they too would have been driven insane. These Jugdrali wyverns being tamed is probably where the Thracian mounted wyverns come from (since they have to come from somewhere). Now, let us also assume that at some point a group of these domesticated wyverns have, for what ever reason, flew all the way from Jugdral to Archanea and that some of them settled in the Wyvern's Dale of the Macedon-Dolhr island, alongside their larger, Archanea native counterparts. Now let us assume that it is one of these formerly Jugdrali wyverns that Iote tamed.

As such, of course the Wyvern's Dale would be described as "home to Macedon's great wyverns". That is where they live(d?) in the wild, after all.

Scenario #2:

Let us assume that there was no migration from Jugdral to Archanea and that the Thracian wyverns stayed where they were. This would imply that Iote indeed tamed one of the larger wyverns and that the smaller ones would make sense being the result of artificial selection, as I suggested above. Then, once again, of course the Wyvern's Dale would be refered to as "home to Macedon's great wyverns". The particular population of the wild wyverns they were bred from originated in the Dale. Keep in mind that only a century passes between the War of Liberation and the War of Shadows from FE1/11. Despite the breeding, the tamed wyverns probably don't look too different from the wild ones and no one forgot where that particular group of wild ones was taken from.

Scenarion #3:

This one is the 'dodging the problem altogether' one. Maybe the wyverns Jagen is refering to are the wild ones in the first place. Marth's army is about to face them in battle again, after all, so they are relevant to the discussion at hand. He even bothers to call them 'great wyverns', though that may be a quirk of the translation. And the Dale is located between Macedon proper and Dolhr proper so it would make sense to refer to the wyverns in question as Macedon's as well (especially since Dolhr is only an entity as a region and not a country after the War of Shadows).

In summary, there could be a number of reasons as to why that wording does not disprove the wolf-and-dog analogy.

Edited January 21, 2015 by RedEyedDrake

[Jotari]

Of Mastery Skills come back, the Dragon Lord should get a fire attack to roast enemies lie Naesala's elwind attack in Path of Radiance. Doesn't necessarily have to be useful since it would be awesome.