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Jave

Regarding the canon of their own games, who is the most powerful Smash character?

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PLEASE TAG ALL YOUR GAME SPOILERS STATING WHAT GAME THEY RELATE TO. SOME PEOPLE HAVEN'T PLAYED THEM ALL.

So I was wondering, we had this thread a while back at the NeoGAF boards and the discussion turned out quite interesting. I think it would be fun to talk about how certain characters would face against each other if they used the rules of their own games instead of going by Smash rules (where everyone is evened out).

General consensus is that Shulk and Kirby are the most powerful, followed usually by Gods (Palutena, Rosalina) or God-like characters (Ness, Mewtwo, Pit) or characters with OP Ultimate forms (Sonic, Mario, I guess Link, I guess Pac-Man too, and some others). Of course, there's A LOT of room to debate this.

Current Tier List:

SS Tier
- Shulk
- Kirby

S Tier
- Rosalina
- Ganondorf

- Mewtwo
- Pit

- Palutena

A Tier
- Sonic
- Ness

- Lucas

- Zelda
- Mario
- Bowser
- Link / Toon Link
- Pac-Man
- Donkey Kong

- Luigi

B Tier

- Robin

- Samus / Zero Suit Samus

- Lucario

- Ike

- Marth

- Lucina

- Pikachu

- Mega Man

- Little Mac

C/D Tier

Everyone else probably goes here. Can't really think of many differences for all these characters, but we can give it a shot.

E Tier

Wii Fit Trainer (No, I don't think she's above Villager)

So what do you think? Who is the true most powerful Smash character outside Smash?

Edited by Jave

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I think Little Mac is impressive in his ultimate form.

He defeated Donkey Kong as a feat and probably took hits from DK too.

Just worth a mention.

Since Little Mac can become Big Giga Mac.

He is stronger in that form but was able to defeat DK in his Little Mac form, and resist hits.

Edited by Vermilia Scarlet

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Id put Rosie in Totally OP tier though. At very least, above Palutena.

[spoiler=Super Mario Galaxy spoilas]

Cuz shes basically Marioverse Space Goddess and can rebirth the universe with Lumas and shit.

Shulk is accurate.

[spoiler=Xenoblade spoilas. Big ones. Beware.]

The Monado has a Zanza in it and the size of it indicates its post-shackle-breaking-Monado. Thats kinda broken. The end of Xenoblade actually points to Alvis (an A.I. that was implemented for an entire universe after Zanza/Klaus fucked up the first one.) forming the True Monado that allows Shulk to basically bend reality any way he really wants. Shulk's just a nice guy and was like "i just want happy times." But yeah, hes basically god of his 'verse.

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Fire Emblem characters can all slay godly/demonic incarnations, specially Ike, but he needs help to do so.

And yet Ness is Godly Tier, despite needing Paula's "Pray" ability to beat Giygas.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

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you could argue giygas is one of if not the most threatening villain among smash bros dudes though, he has the power to destroy the universe

i'm not privy on a lot of the other games, but could the same not be said about Pit needing Palutena to do pretty much half his job for him, or other party members helping the main character

Edited by General Horace

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Despite Palutena having the Goddess status, she's gets into more damsel situations than what people normally perceive her.

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I think Little Mac is impressive in his ultimate form.

He defeated Donkey Kong as a feat and probably took hits from DK too.

Just worth a mention.

Since Little Mac can become Big Giga Mac.

He is stronger in that form but was able to defeat DK in his Little Mac form, and resist hits.

This

And yet Ness is Godly Tier, despite needing Paula's "Pray" ability to beat Giygas.

Ness is pretty good, but i'd knock him down a tier just because of this

Despite Palutena having the Goddess status, she's gets into more damsel situations than what people normally perceive her.

i'd knock her down several tiers cause of this.

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I'd go ahead and throw Samus into the mix as well even in her zero suit form

When she was found and raised by the Chozo they infused her with their DNA (this is what allows her to go into morph ball form and not die) giving her superhuman strength, speed, and coordination. Think on the levels of Master Chief's augmentations but more.

Also yeah alot of the FE characters are pretty high to include Ike. Let's also not forget that Robin being the vessel for Grima is technically a god himself...kinda.

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Why are FE characters so high? They aren't really that powerful in terms of fighting ability in their canon?

Also, why is Kirby op?

Edited by Knife

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Why are FE characters so high? They aren't really that powerful in terms of fighting ability in their canon?

Also, why is Kirby op?

FE characters are high because Smash includes the ones that get to kill uber demons/gods. Normal peeps, not so much

And yeah, all Kirby is is a pink thing that swallows things.

Edited by Dragoncat

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Hmm, well, Ike needed Yune's powers through Micaiah to defeat Ashera. Asides from it he's just a highly skilled fighter with a powerful sword and no godlike powers.

shots fired

Maybe Marth, dunno about Lucina but Robin, hmm, nope.

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I would put Mewtwo above Ness. Does anyone remember the first pokemon movie? He can create life and affect the weather. Ness's psi abilities seem more limited, though I don't really have a handle on what exactly psi rockin' is (I can't comprehend Ness's attack).

One reason Kirby should be so high is that he can duplicate some of Shulk's monado abilities. He doesn't get visions though...Also, Kirby can carry an entire castle if he feels like it (see end of kirby's dreamland).

I think that starfox characters deserve some consideration if vehicles are included, which would make sense if we're talking partially within their own games.

What is Mario's ultimate form? Starman Mario?

Edited by Severlan

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I would put Mewtwo above Ness. Does anyone remember the first pokemon movie? He can create life and affect the weather. Ness's psi abilities seem more limited, though I don't really have a handle on what exactly psi rockin' is (I can't comprehend Ness's attack).

One reason Kirby should be so high is that he can duplicate some of Shulk's monado abilities. He doesn't get visions though...Also, Kirby can carry an entire castle if he feels like it (see end of kirby's dreamland).

I think that starfox characters deserve some consideration if vehicles are included, which would make sense if we're talking partially within their own games.

What is Mario's ultimate form? Starman Mario?

He can also use Death Battle calculation bullshit, by throwing a frying pan in the air going across the sun and back with like millions of newtons of force.

Also Doctor form Mario is his best form.

I demand Lucas on this list.

I think Lucas is higher than Ness. Because Ness' group wasn't able to damage Porky's robot until it stopped working unlike Lucas' group. Also his PSI powers improved by the pulling of each needle. He pulled 4 needles, making his PSI containing PK Love, come to it's strongest form.

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I think Lucas is higher than Ness. Because Ness' group wasn't able to damage Porky's robot until it stopped working unlike Lucas' group. Also his PSI powers improved by the pulling of each needle. He pulled 4 needles, making his PSI containing PK Love, come to it's strongest form.

If I understand your comment about the robot correctly (Porky's robot in Earthbound was different than his robots in Mother 3), Porky ran away during the fight, so that doesn't mean that Ness's group wouldn't have been able to do it too. Also, Ness also got PSI powers improved when he finished up magicant and cracked the my sanctuary stone. Ness also has 4 levels of his PSI [insert name] ability, so I don't think we have much to go on to suggest that Lucas's PSI [insert name] is more powerful than Ness's (we also don't have any reason to think it is less powerful). Ness also has PSI teleport alpha and beta, while Lucas has no PSI teleport (though this is probably primarily because of Mother 3's structure not squaring as well with revisiting areas, due to time passage over the course of the game and NPC migration) - IMO, teleportation is pretty fucking handy.

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Yeah, Rosalina needs to move up a tier for sure. How she compares to Shulk I dunno, I'd think she would be above, but I'm not that far in Xenoblade yet. Putting her below Palutena is actually kind of insulting, Palutena is pretty shit for a goddess (she can't even handle a bunch of carrots, wtf?). I would drop her a tier, along with Pit. I'd actually put Robin above them.

And Wii Fit Trainer is still higher than Villager.

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Why are FE characters so high? They aren't really that powerful in terms of fighting ability in their canon?

Also, why is Kirby op?

FE characters are high because Smash includes the ones that get to kill uber demons/gods. Normal peeps, not so much

And yeah, all Kirby is is a pink thing that swallows things.

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For the record, the list in the OP are just my own thoughts on the matter which I quoted from another forum. If you guys want to make a collective list, but all means let's give it a shot.

Kirby is second only to Shulk because he is pretty much implied to be indestructible, can copy absolutely any ability provided he can swallow his opponent, and can destroy whole planets with a single punch.

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Ganondorf should be godly, he's tough enough to take over the sacred realm, the land belonging to the gods, and make it his own. When Link couldn't arrive to defeat him in the adult timeline, the goddesses had no choice but to drop an ocean on him, and that did pretty much nothing.

Also inb4 this topic was done before (by myself).

Also I don't believe Shulk is that strong, yeah sure he can defeat giant robots and angelic beings left and right (Link and Pit pretty much do this as well), but there's a herd of goats somewhere on Bionis that can kick his butt.

I don't believe Ganondorf is any less powerful than Zanza

Edited by Knight

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Ganondorf can only be killed by the Master Sword or sealed away by the power of the sages. In a fight against anyone not from his own universe, he would basically be unstoppable.

Edit: Wow. Posted about Ganondorf at the exact same moment as Knight.

Edited by ClevelandSteve

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Also, where's Samus? She can completely obliterate species that have caused entire sentient life-forms to go extinct, by herself. The screw attack busts through giant stone pillars and makes her immune to anything that isn't tougher than the impact of a 10-ton alien dragon. She can also swim in magma and bring down alien deities and super AI.

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Ike should at least be the highest of the FE peeps, because in FE lore, he's said to be the mightiest hero of them all. Besides, Ike is a towering hunk of muscle compared to scrawny Marth, Robin, and Lucina!

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Ganondorf should be godly, he's tough enough to take over the sacred realm, the land belonging to the gods, and make it his own. When Link couldn't arrive to defeat him in the adult timeline, the goddesses had no choice but to drop an ocean on him, and that did pretty much nothing.

Also inb4 this topic was done before (by myself).

Also I don't believe Shulk is that strong, yeah sure he can defeat giant robots and angelic beings left and right (Link and Pit pretty much do this as well), but there's a herd of goats somewhere on Bionis that can kick his butt.

I don't believe Ganondorf is any less powerful than Zanza

[spoiler=Xenoblade spoilas]

But Shulk has Alvis, bruh. Reality Warping entirely.

Hes above Ganny for sure.

Not sure on Marth and Lucina, but I'll definitely put Robin higher than Ike.

Ehh about equal. Ike smushes a goddess, Robin can probably become something like one. /shrug

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