Jave Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 It's no longer in the first post, but Donkey Kong is A Tier because [spoiler=DKC Returns Ending]HE PUNCHES THE FRIGGIN' MOON OUT OF ITS ORBIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I did not contradict myself. I said that we have LITTLE knowledge, not NO knowledge. THIS is "a little knowledge". It states that he is a competent fighter against prologue bandits - something that FE7!Mark cannot even fight against - and therefore can at least fight. However, the dialogue does not praise him for being an amazing warrior who topples his enemies through power. Rather, it praises him for his genius tactics. So what LITTLE we do know of his skills is that he is not incompetent at fighting. But how his actual fighting skills match up to people like Ike or Walhart or even Chrom himself, we don't know. Therefore, I did not contradict myself. Also, Ana, you get angry whenever people point out when you're contradicting yourself in the manner you just did so to me. It makes you come off as very unpleasant. So do I now have grounds to get angry at you for calling me out on a contradiction that was never there? Yeah, and I said little knowledge, not NO knowledge. :/ Sorry, I'm just getting a little annoyed that people don't seem to be reading exactly what I'm saying. Or, I'm just missing something. Edited January 23, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Yeah, and I said little knowledge, not NO knowledge. :/ Sorry, I'm just getting a little annoyed that people don't seem to be reading exactly what I'm saying. Or, I'm just missing something. So, you agree Sunwoo never contradicted herself and your previous reply to her was inaccurate? (Not to mention very rude). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I guess so. I just misunderstood her. I don't see where I was ever being rude though. But then again, I never do in situations like this. I've given up trying to see it more. I just cannot see what's rude and what isn't half the time. Edited January 23, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 All talk of Kirby can now be put to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Phoenix Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 To be honest Marth and Robin should be moved up a bit more. I mean both of them clearly killed a God. (In Robin's case, a parallel version of himself who accepted Godhood.) As of FE3/FE12, Medeus (who is a God) was stronger than Naga (the other God) and using her special sword, the Falchion, Marth killed Medeus. Robin was able to kill Grima without the use of any special weapon other than basically using his own attacks to kill Grima. If compared to Lucina or Ike, Marth and Robin are canonically stronger. Lucina with the Falchion would only be able to put Grima to sleep (if the Future Past DLC is correct) and he would be resurrected again. Ike needed a special enchanted/blessed sword AND all the power of a Half Goddess (Yune) to defeat the other Half Goddess (Ashera). He technically doesn't kill Ashera because Yune reunites with her and is reborn into the (Full) Goddess Ashunera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 To be honest Marth and Robin should be moved up a bit more. I mean both of them clearly killed a God. (In Robin's case, a parallel version of himself who accepted Godhood.) As of FE3/FE12, Medeus (who is a God) was stronger than Naga (the other God) and using her special sword, the Falchion, Marth killed Medeus. Robin was able to kill Grima without the use of any special weapon other than basically using his own attacks to kill Grima. If compared to Lucina or Ike, Marth and Robin are canonically stronger. Lucina with the Falchion would only be able to put Grima to sleep (if the Future Past DLC is correct) and he would be resurrected again. Ike needed a special enchanted/blessed sword AND all the power of a Half Goddess (Yune) to defeat the other Half Goddess (Ashera). He technically doesn't kill Ashera because Yune reunites with her and is reborn into the (Full) Goddess Ashunera. But, Grima and Medeus aren't actually gods. (Naga says that herself) Ashera actually is a god, so I doubt Robin or Marth would be able to take on Ashera without Yune's help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) But, Grima and Medeus aren't actually gods. (Naga says that herself) Ashera actually is a god, so I doubt Robin or Marth would be able to take on Ashera without Yune's help. Narga saying that they aren't god doesn't make it so. She is not very different from Ashera to say the least. But I looked into that more in-depth yesterday. The dragon in question is a god. Sure, Narga claimed they weren't gods. But she did is one to talk considering that she has: -her own religion, just like Ashera. -Speaks to her "voice", just like Ashera -is immortal, just like Ashera apparently, given the eventual reappearance of Ashunera. Of course it's not like being more divine then Ashera helps Narga's case. -And she puts humans through lethal tests before considering them worthy. Divine, if dickish. -And she affects the world of mortals from another plane using powers that are beyond the abilities of humans. -And she gives Chrom's group the title "Awakeners", making them essentially her "Chosen Ones". This is in a strong contrast to Radiant Dawn, were the entire point of part 4 was that gods aren't all that different from humans. So I'm pretty sure there isn't that much of a difference between the likes of Ashera/Yune and Narga/Grima. Like, seriously: Naga: "Neither of us bears the power to destroy the other utterly." ... Ashera: "Yune, do not be absurd… You cannot overthrow me, just as I cannot overthrow you." Let's put it this way: Narga claims they both aren't gods while Grima claims he is one. I think there is more to back up Grima's side of the argument. So how are they in any way less divine then the likes of Ashera? Sure, we've never seen Grima turn people to stone but we've seen him perform feats of a very similar magnitude. Like, he raised the dead across several continents (while he was in a weakened state, no less). He is also able to reduce the hitpoints of every single member of an entire army to 1 and probably deliberately restrained himself from downright killing them all. Edited January 23, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) They're less divine because it took only HALF of Ashunera to drown nearly the entire world in ocean. Neither Grima nor Naga showed any abilities to do such a thing. If Grima had such power, Awakening's world would've been gone during the time of the first Exalt. Edited January 23, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) For reference, part of my tier list from my older topic. I didn't know about the DK thing before, I put Falcon so high because in the anime he punches and makes a beam of light that can be seen from millions of lightyears in space (therefore must have been even faster than light) but several people pointed out that it wasn't canon. S tier Captain Falcon Ganon/Ganondorf Kirby A tier Link Shulk Samus Megaman Mario/Dr. Mario Luigi Ness B tier Palutena Dark Pit Pit Sonic Meta Knight Toon Link Bowser Ike Donkey Kong Fox Falco Wario Also, I think we should stop using "has beaten a God" as a feat, since many of these characters had weapons made specifically to beat said gods. Also, if we're going to count that Robin can use the power of Grima then we might as well count that Zelda II Link has the full Triforce and can wish any other contestant away. Edited January 23, 2015 by Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) i just wanna take Jaye's list and suggest some adds and changes, which are in Bold EDIT: and Knight is right, wow we posted both at the same time, but we really should stop focusing on "but imma beatta goooood" and more of the other characters here, i don't even know where Falcon actually belongs, also should dark pit be below pit? never played uprising, also holy crap where's Metaknight and Dedede? i think all of these are more importent then a fire emblem dick waving contest, granted this is a fire emblem site. SS Tier- Shulk- KirbyS Tier- Rosalina- Ganondorf - Mewtwo- Pit - Palutena A Tier- Sonic- Ness - Lucas - Zelda- Mario- Bowser -Wario- Link / Toon Link- Pac-Man- Donkey Kong - Luigi -Greninja B Tier - Robin - Samus / Zero Suit Samus - Lucario -Charizard - Ike - Marth - Lucina - Pikachu - Mega Man - Little Mac C/D Tier Everyone else probably goes here. Can't really think of many differences for all these characters, but we can give it a shot. E Tier Wii Fit Trainer (No, I don't think she's above Villager) Edited January 23, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Also, I think we should stop using "has beaten a God" as a feat, since many of these characters had weapons made specifically to beat said gods. Well, that's true, and I probably should have said this earlier, but it isn't so much the power that's significant, it's the skill that the person wielding it has. Ike borrowed power from Yune, but he still had the combat skills necessary to outsmart Ashera, who also obviously had combat skills. Yune simply leveled the playing field. Power means nothing if the wielder cannot use it. Boyd and Rolf's argument in RD illustrates this perfectly. Boyd argues that power is more important, but Rolf argues that skill is. Boyd says that if you don't have power, you won't hurt your enemies even if you hit them. Which is true. Rolf says that without skill, you won't hit your enemies, which is also true. And Ike didn't even need to borrow any power until the final blow. He could deal plenty of damage to Ashera on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 And Ike didn't even need to borrow any power until the final blow. He could deal plenty of damage to Ashera on his own. Actually, Ike (and everyone else) needed to borrow power from Yune from the beginning since only weapons with Yune's blessing can damage Ashera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 And Ragnell already had that blessing. So Ike didn't need anymore aside from his promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Uh, Ana, did we play the same game? Yune blesses Ragnell and all the other weapons at the beginning of the Dragon map. Ike spends all that time fighting with borrowed power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Yes, we did play the same game. And all I remember is Yune giving Ike his promotion and the others a little more power. Not anything about her blessing Ragnell again. I admit to being incorrect that Ike didn't have ANY borrowed power when he began the battle against Ashera, but still. Edited January 23, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think canon battles like this are fairly problemetic since there needs to be taken into account what they show, but also who they are up against. Ashera for example is probably one of the stronger villains, but Ike himself has never exactly been portrayed as a superhuman. Sure he's one of the most powerfull people in his world, but its still pretty mundane when compared to the destructive powers that character like Pit and Rosalina have been showed to use. Fire Emblem characters also fight their battles alongside their armies, making it hard to judge how much they did themselves. From what i've played I would say that characters like Ganondorf, Pit and Rosalina are at the top, while the non combatents are at the bottom. If we take the pokemon movies into account then Mewtwo might win since I believe the storm he called could destroy the entire world or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Yes, we did play the same game. And all I remember is Yune giving Ike his promotion and the others a little more power. Not anything about her blessing Ragnell again. I admit to being incorrect that Ike didn't have ANY borrowed power when he began the battle against Ashera, but still. Well, I've played through FE10 at least 12 times, and trust me, Ragnell doesn't have any blessing until Yune blesses it along with the other weapons at the beginning of 4-E-3. I'm positive anyone else who has played the game can confirm this. Edited January 23, 2015 by Jave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Well, I've played through FE10 at least 12 times, and trust me, Ragnell doesn't have any blessing until Yune blesses it along with the other weapons at the beginning of 4-E-3. I'm positive anyone else who has played the game can confirm this. i can back you up on this, it doesn't get that blessing affect until the game gives it. also didn't i say enough of this fire emblem dick waving contest? even if ike or robin or marth could do all of this, they'd still be B tier because they couldn't realisticly handle anything in A tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Kai nothing else is even being discussed, except one person who mentioned Captain falcon punching at lightspeed. Please encourage other debate without throwing out simplistic ShutUp. In all seriousness, I could see Falcon going below Kirby, in the sense that without aid of miraculous powers and weapons, he just punches with the force of a supernova.upper S tier. And why is Samus below the likes of Luigi? Edited January 24, 2015 by Sara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Well, I've played through FE10 at least 12 times, and trust me, Ragnell doesn't have any blessing until Yune blesses it along with the other weapons at the beginning of 4-E-3. I'm positive anyone else who has played the game can confirm this. Played FE10 quite a bit myself, and I am almost certain that Yune blessed Ragnell (along with all the other weapons) again. EDIT: Also, wouldn't Ragnell have carried Ashera's blessing anyway and not Yune's? Could Ike have even damaged Ashera using a weapon that she herself had blessed a long time ago? Edited January 24, 2015 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well, I admit that my memory on the game is a bit fuzzy due to not having played it in awhile, though I did play through it a bunch of times myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Here's the English version of the script that I found on SF's main site. Yune: “I failed then… But this time will be different. I’ll use Ashera’s own tricks, and I won’t be defeated. Everyone… Take some time now to ready yourselves. Beorc, be sure to equip your best weapons. I’ll begin when everyone’s ready.” (Battle Preparations) (If Ike isn’t equipped with Ragnell) Yune: “Ike, there’s a certain affinity between a weapon and its bearer. Ragnell is clearly ideal for you. You can feel it can’t you?” Ike: “Yes, you’re right.” Yune: “You have Ragnell ready, then? Good.” This dialogue seems to imply that Ike equipped, or was supposed to equip, Ragnell before Yune blessed everyone's weapons. Why else would he equip Ragnell before Yune gave everyone her blessing if Ragnell didn't need the blessing? Edited January 24, 2015 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Ah, that explains why I don't remember it then. I always had Ike equipped with Ragnell at that point. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 been thinking about falcon, isn't the anime not canon? i remember someone saying that earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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