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ErrantDShepherd

Biweekly Battle Sprite Showdown, ~'Cause we're Artists! Don't need no Reasons~ (9/9: suggestions?) ideas and discussion thread.

Battle Sprite Compy poll  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like Battle Sprites? (please make sure to add exclamation points)

    • YES! They are fun... and stuff!
    • NO! (why am I even in this thread?)
    • MAYBE!? I dunno... if they look good, I guess.
    • Purple Monkey Dishwasher...
    • Definitely Maybe?
    • STILL NO! (Seriously, why are you even in this thread?)
    • ...SPOOOOOOOOON!
    • Other. (Please elaborate in post)
  2. 2. What Topic/Themes would you like to see? (choose as many as you like)

    • Avatar Adventures! Sprite your avatar.
    • Man/Woman in the Mirror! Sprite Yourself! (proof optional)
    • The Monster Mash! Sprite a Monster!
    • The Great Gender Swap! Sprite a pre-existing character/class as the opposite gender!
    • Baby Blues... Make a child/offspring of two pre-existing characters! (Can be same gender, can be different species, BonewalkerxLyn for the win?)
    • The Reclassifieds... sprite a pre-existing character in a new class.
    • Shades of the Past! Sprite a pre-GBA Fire Emblem character/class/creature...(Includes DS designs, FE 1/2/3/4/5/11/12)
    • Shades of Tellius! Sprite a GC/Wii era Fire Emblem character/class/creature. (FE 9/10, PoR/RD)
    • Shade of the Future! Sprite a 3DS era character/class/creature. (FE 13/14, Awakening/FEif)
    • Heroes reimagined! Sprite a GBA era character/class/creature in a new way/design. (FE 6/7/8)
    • Crossover Chaos! Sprite a pre-existing video game character in Fire Emblem style.
    • Movie Madness! Sprite based on a Movie.
    • Book Club! Sprite based on a Book.
    • The OC... sprite an original character!
    • Other. (Please elaborate in thread)
    • The Animated Challenge... Every few contests, an animation based week.
    • FRANKENSTEIN... Make the best sprite you can incorporating multiple bases.
    • Pimp My Mount! Make the best/coolest/craziest mount you can sprite/design.
    • Welcome to the Jungle! Animal spriting competition, no humans allowed.
    • Modern Day Mayhem! Sprite a pre-existing FE character or class in more modern day equivalent/design. Either Military or Civilian accepted.
  3. 3. What Format for Voting? (choose one)

    • 1 single vote... Screw Divisions/Categories!
    • Best Custom, Splice/Edit, Overall. 1 vote each.
    • Best Custom, Splice/Edit: 1 vote each. Best Overall: multiple votes.
      0
    • Best Custom, Splice/Edit, Overall. All multi-votes. Tiebreaker, single vote if needed.
    • Best Custom, Splice/Edit:1 vote each. Third Category: "Pick which ones you like!" multi-vote. Best Overall=most votes total.
    • Best in theme: single vote. Pick which ones you like: multi-vote.
    • 3 votes... 1st place choice, 2nd place choice, 3rd place choice. Votes weighted.
    • I really don't care about the voting format.
    • Other. (Please elaborate in thread)
      0


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I try sometimes ;u; <3

I just didn't think it made much sense to try to give all those incentives when so many people were already interested. Hell, even I want to try my hand at it, and I've never worked on battle sprites before.

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I try sometimes ;u; <3

I just didn't think it made much sense to try to give all those incentives when so many people were already interested. Hell, even I want to try my hand at it, and I've never worked on battle sprites before.

It just doesn't need incentives. I mean, unless you're offering like an actual fucking prize (see: money, physical good, etc.), then there's really no other incentive other than "I'm interested" and "that seems fun;" and let's just fucking face it - that's really all the fucking excuse we need to do a thing.

We're artists. We don't need a reason. We just fucking do it.

Edited by Etain

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I was actually thinking he might as well offer a cash prize if he was in set of giving more incentives

Most of the time I don't even need an excuse to sprite, 'cause I just enjoy spriting in general~

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It was rather wordy and lengthy when I considered entering. It was a lot of reading and honestly slightly confusing. But as these two ladies said, I rather agree. For a casual contest, there is almost too much going on to the point of being overwhelming. It's cool that you are trying to think of things to make this unique, but...

"We're artists. We don't need a reason. We just fucking do it."

-Aeo

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K, sounds good. Too easy to over think things. I guess I was worried from seeing too many of these things die. (That is probably making too big a deal of it... Only first week and with the participants we've had even with my confusing things :/ )

...I didn't ask for kids gloves. Or try to tell you to "calm the fuck down." I did ask you to chill on saying that I was trying to to make this something else I guess? As that isn't what I want or have been trying to do, but I'm sorry that it has read that way. That's on me.

However, I don't see anything inherently contradictory with asking for feedback but also asking for some leeway as I am new at this contest stuff... Didn't read that way I guess.

Obviously way too easy for me to get excited and wordy about this ATM tho... Think I probably was getting a bit defensive too on stuff that really ain't a big deal. :o

...But I should probably proof read/breathe a bit before I post when sleep deprived and grumpy. Hell even I'm finding me a little too wired right now. :/

---
Will try to work on the walls of text. But seriously... I can handle/learn from any feedback and do want to hear what I screw up on. I do mean that, and I hope I have been proving it by trying to engage and listen here.

I will also try to take my own advice to chill. XD

@ Kon

...hah, if I had the money to offer cash prizes... Man if only :p

@ Alpha

...yeah, does the setup seem better now?

Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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It just doesn't need incentives. I mean, unless you're offering like an actual fucking prize (see: money, physical good, etc.), then there's really no other incentive other than "I'm interested" and "that seems fun;" and let's just fucking face it - that's really all the fucking excuse we need to do a thing.

We're artists. We don't need a reason. We just fucking do it.

This.

Plus, I feel the existing competitions (though different subject matters) lay a pretty good basework - Most people I feel will know what to expect, and for those who are new to the competitions forum in general, it is undeniably best to keep instructions as simple and straightforward as possible.

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Yep. KISS never sounded so good.

...just wanted to say, the turnout/entries have been god damned awesome! So many good or just really cool entries. :D

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You're doing all right for a first time hosting, but I have to agree that you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. The community had the drive to participate the moment you said you wanted to start a battle spriting competition, not the moment you said you'd offer incentives.

Imo make the OP and groundwork brief as possible (no talking to someone, just leave the instructions) and put your enthusiasm into people's (and your own) submissions. Leave the prize concept alone for now, don't commit anything to writing, and don't bugger with it again until the polling is underway.

If you're dead set on keeping the incentives you've thought up, just say so. I don't think anyone else really cares about them, though, to be honest. Anyways, that'll be more clear when voting is done.

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@ Lenh

Thanks Lenh. Yeah, you and all the others are definitely right. I was making things a bit too complicated. Hard to see when you're really close to it, and sleep deprived, but now stepping back... And thinking about the feedback and where I can see it myself... Yep. Thankfully having a good night's rest last night helped me not be quite so edgy/defensive too! XD

...so yeah, thank you guys for helping helping to make this better and trying to get through to my stubborn, sleep deprived ass. :P

-----

...anyways, so. What should we talk about now?

Lenh, do you feel the reworked/trimmed rules/setup needs anything more removed or made briefer? Is there anything else we should drop to make things more casual and more clear?

...and are there any more ideas or suggestions for topics and what not? I'm kinda enjoying hearing all the various ideas.

Currently at the time if this post: Crossover Chaos is the topic with the most votes at 8... So guess we'll use that next time the best overall winner has no topic in mind... Or if I somehow manage to win one of these. XD

...damn, competition looks fierce, so many great entries. I like it. :D

Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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...eh, figure this deserves a post as its an update. There is a new poll up on Voting Format. 1st poll on Contest Format has been removed.

So, I took out the first poll as we have the first contest up and going well. Second poll on themes/topics will stay for now.

The new poll was added as there was some debate about how people wanted to be able to vote.

...so go vote, and discuss. :D

Found a quirk...If you have already entered a vote in one of the earlier polls, have to choose delete my vote in order to re-enter voting. You will also have to re-enter your votes in the original polls if you want them still counted.

In case you were wondering what people have been saying.

[spoiler=Here's the debate, c/p from the Contest thread]

Klok: I'm gonna have a really hard time deciding who to vote for. Maybe the voting should just be a multiple choice and you can vote as many as you want? Let's do that, it sounds most reasonable given the huge number of entries.

I agree with Klok, not only do we have a large number of entries, we have a large number of AWESOME entries too!

Agreed, by the time voting period comes, I'm going to want to vote for all of them ;~;

Not every choice is meant to be easy. We don't want to end up with a 3 way tie or something either.

Well, in the case of ties, there's always the idea of a tie-breaker round.

I think it will be best to keep the three categories a single vote. To try to avoid ties.

But, maybe a seperate multiple choice vote could be used as a tiebreaker or something if a tie does occur. Like the voting in the splice competition. :)

EDIT: or... Best overall could be from the combo of division single choice votes and an open "what do you like" multiple choice votes.

...I do not want to make this more comp located than I already have by giving us too many separate votes.

3 separate polls to vote for should probably be the limit. I think at least...

But I am just the host, and want to avoid controlling/micromanaging the competition. >.<

Or we could allow multiple votes on the initial round and then have a tiebreaker if there are any tied sprites. That seems WAY more logical to me at least.

(I feel like pointing out that there are a ton of really good submissions, if we allow infinite-voting then everyone will vote for everything and it will have been pointless. Maybe a system with 3 polls, where people vote for their #1, #2, and #3 submissions, and each of those are worth different amounts of points that get totaled up in the end or something?)

That's a silly opinion. If people vote for everything (Keeping in mind the recent mug competitions have allowed this as a sub-category and there's always one well above the rest) then the tie-breaker round solves that dilemma anyway.

Meanwhile, limiting people to one vote with this many submissions means a ton of otherwise good submissions might not get a vote at all.

So? It's a competition. Casual, yes, but still a competition. This isn't an "everybody gets a trophy" thing. People will probably post with honorable mentions and the such, but really allowing unlimited votes can get rather messy. Easy way to solve it is just a single vote for the fave and then can have an honorable mention poll where you can click whatever you want but it doesn't count...like the mug competition.

Or might as well have it as a showcase congratulating all the participants and then voting for next theme as a community. loljk

...so, yeah. Once again, please Vote, debate, discuss... but most of all, enjoy the awesome works of the community in this contest so far! :D

Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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I am having trouble voting, I get an error that says I need to answer every question on the poll, even though I do :/ Could just be me?

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Huh, weird I voted first with no issues... But then I did check all the boxes in topic poll. Tried deleting my vote and voting again to replicate what you guys have been finding...

Yeah. Something got borked. Will rejig it asap. Think I will have to delete the original polls and re-enter them. :\

FIXED!

...problem was taking out Poll Question 1. Tried resetting the Themes/Topics poll to question 1 but that screwed up the votes as the old multi votes were still present in the new question 2.

...so, all fixed up now. Go vote! If you have no option to vote, you will have to choose delete vote, then re-enter your votes.

Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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Same thing happened when I switched up the poll for the Spriter's Guild, the more I tried making it work the more error-prone it got. Based on what I see so far (everyone voting across everything and nothing really shining through), you're better off just asking for people's written opinions than what they think of your possibilities.

Imo 'Pick the Best' and 'Pick the Ones you like' works well. It's simple, straightforward, you can weight the votes between the two really simply, and together they have a pretty good impact on how someone can feel about a specific submission. If you really wanted to, it wouldn't be too hard to separate the vote results from that into their respective sections. Whether the sprite is FC or an edit isn't something the voter really needs to think about.

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@Lenh

...I'm inclined towards that a bit more now too after thinking about it. However, I do like the division of custom and splice/edit just to give some of the non-custom spriters a chance to win a category, and allow the custom spriters a chance to just strut their stuff/improve. Which is why I went with this one for my personal choice.

[spoiler=My vote]
Best Custom, Splice/Edit:1 vote each. Third Category: "Pick which ones you like!" multi-vote. Best Overall=most votes total

I feel that option ties together the initial idea for voting along with allowing people to have a multiple choice option as well. In that option... we'd only have the 3 voting polls, and Best Overall Winner would come from the combination of single votes from best Custom, best Splice/Edit, and the multi-votes of "Pick which ones you like!"

----

As to the weirdness of the votes earlier...

Yeah, the initial appearance of multiple votes in the new poll was due to the Poll Question 2 holding onto the old multiple votes.

Now the new poll is in question 3 to fix that issue... also gag poll in question 1, unless someone has a better question we should vote on. XD

As to what was going on...

Me: fixed polls
Klokinator: what was the issue
[The Errant Shepherd: ...got screwed up due to old votes still being in the new questions
The Errant Shepherd: also don't ever delete question 1
The Errant Shepherd: screws the whole thing up
The Errant Shepherd: all fixed now though
The Errant Shepherd: ...dumb/gag poll now in question 1's place, question 2 is back to normal, question 3 is the new poll
Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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Once all the voting is done and metrics are in, then you split everyone back into categories (using the votes you got) and post the results. Splitting everyone into categories then voting just adds a step imo. I see where you're wanting to force a vote towards a specific category, but it's more work than it's going to yield.

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You have a point... guess we'll see what we end up going with. We can always tweak the systems for the next round if the voting format ends up not working so well. :)

EDIT:

BTW, Anyone have any links to some good pixel art, or FE battle sprite tutorials they could share?

I want to make a tips and tutorials section for the contest for people just starting out with battle sprite editing/customing... I know the location of Yeti's two tutorials, but haven't got a msg back yet if he's OK for me to post them yet.

Wondering if anyone else knows of some good ones? Tutorials in the resources thread seem to be focused on mug/portrait sprites, or just simple recoloring.

----

Found some really excellent tutorials I thought I would share for your reading pleasure.

Thinking in Color

-Excellent easy to understand tutorial on how colors effect your pixel art/sprite. Definitely worth the read!

Derek-Make Games: 10 step custom sprite tutorial

-great quick, easy tutorial on custom pixel art/sprites.

So you Wanna be a Pixel Artist? 11 part series.

-A bit wordy, but very well done in-depth look at the world of pixel art in general, from map tiles to sprites to animations.

BwdYeti's tutorials are very recommended reads as well. Please share if you know of any other excellent tutorials! :D

Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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That's a silly opinion. If people vote for everything (Keeping in mind the recent mug competitions have allowed this as a sub-category and there's always one well above the rest) then the tie-breaker round solves that dilemma anyway.

Meanwhile, limiting people to one vote with this many submissions means a ton of otherwise good submissions might not get a vote at all.

(Just felt like replying to this because what)

(This was @

(I feel like pointing out that there are a ton of really good submissions, if we allow infinite-voting then everyone will vote for everything and it will have been pointless. Maybe a system with 3 polls, where people vote for their #1, #2, and #3 submissions, and each of those are worth different amounts of points that get totaled up in the end or something?)

Um no, "if people vote for everything" then in the tiebreaker they'll vote for everything again and in the tiebreakerbreaker they'll vote for everything again and nothing gets done, unless you limit votes in the tiebreaker rounds but then you may as well just have done that in the first place?

Meanwhile, I never said limit people to one vote, my idea was specifically so we don't have to do that, we're giving 3 votes to everyone that way.

But of course it's only one idea, we've got a poll running here of course so well let's see what we've got~

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...so here are the links to BwdYeti's custom battle sprite tutorials. I found his second tutorial, along with the Thinking in Color very fascinating on palletes... Hoping to apply those to my next couple sprites now that I understand it a bit better.

BwdYeti's Custom Battle Sprite Tutorial #1

-kinda old, from before 2009... But a great look at the process of creating custom battle sprites from the Best Battle Spriter around... Then and now.

Yeti's custom tutorial #2

-his second tutorial, even better than the first! Great tips on creating a custom pallete that fits with GBA battle sprite colors. A must read for anyone doing battle sprites!

I believe these tutorials are especially useful to the community as they are the only tutorials I know of focused on the FE battle sprite style.

...if anyone else has any they would like to share, please do. :)

Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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Um no, "if people vote for everything" then in the tiebreaker they'll vote for everything again and in the tiebreakerbreaker they'll vote for everything again and nothing gets done, unless you limit votes in the tiebreaker rounds but then you may as well just have done that in the first place?

Meanwhile, I never said limit people to one vote, my idea was specifically so we don't have to do that, we're giving 3 votes to everyone that way.

But of course it's only one idea, we've got a poll running here of course so well let's see what we've got~

You're assuming everyone votes for everyone else all the time. Most people vote 2 or 3 they love. The odds of having a tie with this many entries is slim at best. If it does come down to a tie, you give a one-vote tiebreaker, and then you're done.

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Speaking of votes... I would assume people thought as much, but just so there is no confusion...

Best liked voting format in the poll by the deadline will be what we use this time around.

...so if you have a preference, and haven't already voted... Go vote! Democracy! ;)

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Deadline for entry and poll on voting format is Midnight(PST) tonight, Sunday 8th... Unless we have some people in Hawaii/Pacific isles needing more time I guess? If so lemme know...

BBSS entry Voting Thread will be up tomorrow as soon as I can get it up!

...voting format still tied at 4 votes a piece as of this post. Go vote if you care about voting format?

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...okay, so working on getting the voting thread up... have run into a problem with the voting, the polls here can have only 20 choices per 5 questions. We have over 20 entries though.

...that means we would either have to have a spillover poll question for the Best in Theme... which kinda ruins the one single vote idea as then people might vote twice accidentally. Or we can go with the original split into two categories of Best Full Custom, Best Edit/Splice... and then just a pick whichever you like the best for the end.

If no one is horribly opposed, I will go back to the original voting split idea. As that's the best way in my mind of avoiding potential vote counting issues entirely... and next competition will go with the Best in Theme poll option if total entries is equal to or less than 20.

...Democracy in action? >.>

EXECUTIVE DECISION? D:

Voting format poll is being decided by a 1 vote difference anyways?

Edited by TheErrantShepherd

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