Least favourite Lord and why?

[Magical Glace]

@Glacion: Are you saying that Elincia and Ike condoned Begnion's treatment of Daein? If so, you'll need to provide evidence for that claim. If not, you should choose your words more carefully.

Whoops, that's not what I meant with that...

So they should have let Ashnard take control of Crimea just because he "wasn't cruel to the average crimean citizen"

Also, you do seem to forget that according to the game's lore, ashnard taking control of the continent would end up with tellius being completely destroyed. Sorry, but would Micaiah did by liberating Daein was exactly the same Ike did by liberating Crimea. The only difference is that Micaiah didn't need to ask another kingdom for help unlike Ike, and Ike only had to do that because there was no way he could have won otherwise. You can't hate Ike for doing what he did while enforcing Micaiah's actions. Her disliking for Ike is understandable, because hypocrisy is an understandable human trait. You like her flaws, I think her flaws make her an unlikable character (but in a good way, as I said in my post)

I don't hate Ike for doing what he did... I hate him for being extremely bland/not really getting punished for anything/being overly perfect leader with no training or experience/etc.

Fair point on Ashnard. I'm just kind of annoyed people hate her for hating Ike when it was completely understandable as to why she would. I'm just trying to point out how she viewed it.

Uh, Ashnard torched Melior and killed Elincia's parents. How is that not cruel?

Because average citizens honestly didn't care?

Yes, it was cruel to the royal family of Crimea, but unlike Daein's citizenry under Begnion, he didn't do anything to Crimea's people in his pursuit of power.

[Baldrick]

Bolded: Bruh, im not sure how much i have to stress that thats the bloody point. Shes not supposed to be justified exactly. We are supposed to go "Micaiah, dont be thick"

Couldn't agree more. For context, I was responding to this post:

Ike destroyed Daein in the war, but she did not destroy Begnion. I think she's fully justified in her dislike of him in Part I.

[Ein]

All FE discussions so Tellius/Ike related now. That must mean something.

Least fave probably Marth. Only time he made think he was an actual character was when he was confessing his love to Caeda at the end of Shadow Dragon. And maybe some other time but Shadow Dragon is just a blur of mediocrity I don't think it warrants effort to look at the scripts.

[Baldrick]

Ike not only stole the spotlight for RD, he steals the spotlight for all general FE discussion.

[Magical Glace]

You know, if I Battle Save abused enough, gave her every stat booster and poured a tonne of BEXP into her, I could get a Micaiah with perfect stats too. Hell. I could do this to Fiona or Lyre if I wanted to. So this really doesn't mean anything, especially that she's good..

Forgot this.

The point of the post was that she sucked even fully capped, btw. I said she did 7 damage/aura/turn on Easy. Fully capped with the strongest Light tome in the game.

[Anacybele]

overly perfect leader with no training or experience/etc.

Uh, what? Ike gets plenty of training. He's trained by his father, Titania puts the finishing touches on that, then later he's trained by Stefan. He grows as a leader throughout PoR and that development is exhibited in RD when he's shown to have gotten plenty more experience.

And he's hardly perfect. He's impulsive sometimes, reckless, pretty blunt, and he's called out for these things a number of times. Heck, he's also a bit gullible, even in RD when Aimee nearly tricks him into pulling a crazy stunt. She's only stopped by Soren.

[BrightBow]

Also, you do seem to forget that according to the game's lore, ashnard taking control of the continent would end up with tellius being completely destroyed. Sorry, but would Micaiah did by liberating Daein was exactly the same Ike did by liberating Crimea. The only difference is that Micaiah didn't need to ask another kingdom for help unlike Ike, and Ike only had to do that because there was no way he could have won otherwise. You can't hate Ike for doing what he did while enforcing Micaiah's actions. Her disliking for Ike is understandable, because hypocrisy is an understandable human trait. You like her flaws, I think her flaws make her an unlikable character (but in a good way, as I said in my post)

This is completely irrelevant for the question of hypocrisy.

For one thing, Ike's gang only figured out that Ashnard was deliberately trying to resurrect the Dark God once he had already Nevassa under his control. The country was already conquered by the time he could factor this into his decisions.

But more importantly, Micaiah almost certainly didn't know about the Fire Emblem. The only one who could have told her is Sothe and we have absolutely no reason to assume that anyone but the heads of Ike's army ever learned about this. Now in the war councils were they talked about it, Mist was present but Ike specifically said that she is there because it involved their parents, so it sounded like they were trying to keep this a secret. Which would be the logical thing to do since finding out that you might come face to face with a literal god of destruction is probably not good for troop moral. Besides, it's hard to believe that Jorge would have played devils advocate for Ashnard if he knew that he was aiming for nothing short of Armageddon.

Honestly, Micaiah has little reason to have a different opinion about the whole issue as the average Daein citizen. Especially after she, a Branded who had been secluded from other people for her entire life, bounded with them. When Micaiah finally opened herself up towards others, she saw the Daein people from their best side. So it's natural that she is biased as hell towards them.

Micaiah: During the war, I spent a lot of time with the people of Daein while I was waiting for you to return. After we lost the war, all our cities and towns had been reduced to ruins. We had to help each other to cope. We supported and comforted each other. That’s how we survived.

Sothe: You never mentioned this before.

Micaiah: I’ve been secluded so long, I had no idea people were so strong… and kind. No one knew who I was, but they helped me because I was from Daein. They were so… loving. They were my friends.

I mean, we know how strong the devotion of Branded usually is. We see that with Soren and Zelgius. Zelgius was willing to help with the destruction of the world for Sephiran. And as for Soren... well, this dead quote in RD probably isn't used since he retreats but it still shows a somewhat similar attitude:

Soren: Ike… Please live… Even if all the cities burn, and the seas swallow Tellius… You mustn’t die… Not you…

But Micaiah is a special case even by the standards of Branded since she can feel people's emotions. Which would mean that if people are genuine kind towards her, she would feel this stronger then others. Similarly, if these good, kind and compassionate people have a sincere ire towards a certain Crimean general, it's natural that she would think that anger is justified.

Edit:

Also, sorry about the color. For some reason my browser copies this kind of information these days.

Edited February 2, 2015 by BrightBow

[Magical Glace]

Uh, what? Ike gets plenty of training. He's trained by his father, Titania puts the finishing touches on that, then later he's trained by Stefan. He grows as a leader throughout PoR and that development is exhibited in RD when he's shown to have gotten plenty more experience.

And he's hardly perfect. He's impulsive sometimes, reckless, pretty blunt, and he's called out for these things a number of times. Heck, he's also a bit gullible, even in RD when Aimee nearly tricks him into pulling a crazy stunt. She's only stopped by Soren.

He is overly perfect at it, for the amount of training he got.

Griel died sooner than everybody thought he would. Thus, he didn't have time to fully train Ike's leadership. Yet everyone bar Shinon fully trusted Ike right after Griel died without a second thought. And he SOMEHOW get's put in charge later despite being some lowly commoner Elincia happened to run into.

Honestly, with that said the "faults" you listed feel more like informed attributes. They don't really have any consequences for him.

[Radiant head]

Are people really resorting to "Ashnard wasn't so bad!" to defend Micaiah?

[Baldrick]

Hey, at least Ashnard never tried to destroy Crimea as a country!

[Sentacotus]

Hey, at least Ashnard never tried to destroy Crimea as a country!

Whoever said Ike or Crimea did? To my knowledge only Begnion did some serious shit in Daein and then it was only really Jarod and his force.

[CT075]

Are people really resorting to "Ashnard wasn't so bad!" to defend Micaiah?

not only is it a legitimate argument, that isn't even what people are saying

[Radiant head]

Ashnard destroyed Daein by moving everything over to Crimea.

not only is it a legitimate argument, that isn't even what people are saying

That's basically the implication.

[CT075]

literally nobody in daein complained about ashnard

like actually

it was so good that shinon defected to join daein

[Anacybele]

He is overly perfect at it, for the amount of training he got.

Griel died sooner than everybody thought he would. Thus, he didn't have time to fully train Ike's leadership. Yet everyone bar Shinon fully trusted Ike right after Griel died without a second thought. And he SOMEHOW get's put in charge later despite being some lowly commoner Elincia happened to run into.

He was trained by a master swordsman named Greil. That's why he's as skilled as he is.

And no, Gatrie left too, you know. Ike had to convince him to return later, just as he did Shinon. Ike was the leader of the group at the time Elincia gave him his title. Geoffrey was nowhere to be found yet, and neither was Lucia. Who else was she going to put in charge? Kieran?

Ike was forced to grow into a leader on his own with Titania and Soren's support. Which he did.

[CT075]

personally my headcanon is that titania did all the real leading and ike was just a figurehead in FE9

by RD ike's been leading the mercs for a few years (as well as anything he'd picked up from the mad king's war); he was a fine choice for the apostle's army (besides, was there a realistic choice other than him? zelgius is the only one i could think of, and he's MIA anyway)

[LeaderR Elliot]

Is the topic burning yet?

FE12 marth is my least favorite... because his magic cap got a 5 magic decrease, why Int Sys why!?!?

[Wayward Alchemist]

For me it's Eirika. She is just so naïve. I don't hate the girl, but come on. No matter how nicely you ask him, Lyon ain't giving up the Dark Stone. He might have been your friend then, but he's your enemy now, and there's no point in pretending otherwise! And stat wise, she's just an inferior Lyn (<3) with good Resistance. And a horse I guess. I suppose I'm biased because of Ephraim, though. He's my second-favorite lord, only just behind Hector.

And am I the only one that genuinely liked Chrom? Everyone says he's boring, but a lot of lords are, and I found Chrom to be pretty funny. At least he's not Eliwood. If he had a flavor, it'd be air. He had zero personality.

[Loki Laufeyson]

This is completely irrelevant for the question of hypocrisy.

For one thing, Ike's gang only figured out that Ashnard was deliberately trying to resurrect the Dark God once he had already Nevassa under his control. The country was already conquered by the time he could factor this into his decisions.

But more importantly, Micaiah almost certainly didn't know about the Fire Emblem. The only one who could have told her is Sothe and we have absolutely no reason to assume that anyone but the heads of Ike's army ever learned about this. Now in the war councils were they talked about it, Mist was present but Ike specifically said that she is there because it involved their parents, so it sounded like they were trying to keep this a secret. Which would be the logical thing to do since finding out that you might come face to face with a literal god of destruction is probably not good for troop moral. Besides, it's hard to believe that Jorge would have played devils advocate for Ashnard if he knew that he was aiming for nothing short of Armageddon.

Honestly, Micaiah has little reason to have a different opinion about the whole issue as the average Daein citizen. Especially after she, a Branded who had been secluded from other people for her entire life, bounded with them. When Micaiah finally opened herself up towards others, she saw the Daein people from their best side. So it's natural that she is biased as hell towards them.

Micaiah: During the war, I spent a lot of time with the people of Daein while I was waiting for you to return. After we lost the war, all our cities and towns had been reduced to ruins. We had to help each other to cope. We supported and comforted each other. That’s how we survived.

Sothe: You never mentioned this before.

Micaiah: I’ve been secluded so long, I had no idea people were so strong… and kind. No one knew who I was, but they helped me because I was from Daein. They were so… loving. They were my friends.

I mean, we know how strong the devotion of Branded usually is. We see that with Soren and Zelgius. Zelgius was willing to help with the destruction of the world for Sephiran. And as for Soren... well, this dead quote in RD probably isn't used since he retreats but it still shows a somewhat similar attitude:

Soren: Ike… Please live… Even if all the cities burn, and the seas swallow Tellius… You mustn’t die… Not you…

But Micaiah is a special case even by the standards of Branded since she can feel people's emotions. Which would mean that if people are genuine kind towards her, she would feel this stronger then others. Similarly, if these good, kind and compassionate people have a sincere ire towards a certain Crimean general, it's natural that she would think that anger is justified.

Edit:

Also, sorry about the color. For some reason my browser copies this kind of information these days.

Finally, a post that makes sense. (also the Soren quote, i think he can die for realsies in Endgame...)

We are supposed to question Micaiah's viewpoint, but i feel like its not hypocrisy.

literally nobody in daein complained about ashnard

like actually

it was so good that shinon defected to join daein

Yeah. Its really telling that no one in Daein complained about Ashnard.

[spoiler=Let us really get to the bottom of it.]

Sothe ...

Ike Something on your mind?

Sothe

Oh, Commander Ike! Oops! I guess I'm supposed to call you General now, huh?

Ike Commander's fine. So what's going on? Are you thinking about that person you were looking for?

Sothe That's...all settled. Actually, no... it's not really settled. It's just...I figured that worrying about it all the time wasn't doing me any good. I turned over every rock in Begnion during my search, but... It's just easier to assume that everything's going well...somewhere...

Ike

Well, as long as you're happy, I won't say a word. So...what were you thinking about then?

Sothe

I...I didn't say anything before, but Daein is my homeland.

Ike

Is that so? Sothe Yeah. Until a few years back, I lived in the slums of Nevassa and stole for a living.

Ike ...

Sothe

So anyway, I went back to my old stomping grounds and saw some friends. The rest of the city's empty, but they're still here. They've got no other place to go, you know?

Ike

And what did they have to say?

Sothe

Every one was mad that Crimea had won. They said if the king had been here, there's no way they would've been defeated. It's so weird. Until now, all they had ever done was complain about this place.

Ike

I see.

Sothe

You know, Ashnard wasn't such a bad king. At least, as far as we could see. If you were strong enough, you could rise up and become a knight one day. You could escape the filthy slums. He was the only king who ever gave us that chance. That hope.

Ike

...

Sothe

Don't get me wrong. I don't mind fighting with all of you. But still, seeing your homeland scarred and trampled like this is tough. I'm sorry. I know Crimea is suffering in the same way, but... I can't change how I feel.

Ike

...

That was in PoR.

personally my headcanon is that titania and Soren did all the real leading and ike was just a figurehead in FE9

fix'd

Edited February 2, 2015 by Loki Laufeyson

[Wayward Alchemist]

(Whoops, double post. Damn iPhone.)

Edited February 2, 2015 by JothTheConqueror

[Nobody]

Yes, the way she acted is understandable. She's extremely biased towards people from daein. I dislike her for being extremely biased towards the people of daein, even though I completely understand her motivations. Sorry, but no one in this thread can change my opinion about micaiah, which isn't even the thread's point.

And I still think she's hypocritical, for complaining about someone doing a thing she's also doing.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

so you hate a patriot for being patriotic?

geez you must come from like, Russia or Cuba where everyone hates being a citizen of their country

[Loki Laufeyson]

so you hate a patriot for being patriotic?

geez you must come from like, Russia or Cuba where everyone hates being a citizen of their country

That feeling when Daein looks a lot like Russia at times.

[Glaceon10]

Roy or Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem ~ Heroes of Light and Shadow ~'s Marth. Roy never truly developed over the course of the story and was always bland to me. Marth really lost all of his characterization and development from Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon in-between the games. He always seemed emotionally weak to me, as if he would break down at any second, and he basically took a backseat to Kris / My Unit / Avatar. Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon Marth is one of my favorite Lords, but I hate the successor.

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

And am I the only one that genuinely liked Chrom? Everyone says he's boring, but a lot of lords are, and I found Chrom to be pretty funny. At least he's not Eliwood. If he had a flavor, it'd be air. He had zero personality.

The Chrom that we see in supports and DLC scenes and low-stakes moments is an utterly likable dude. Very engaging. And funny. The Chrom who carries the plot takes a nosedive after the time skip and never pulls out of it IMO.