Least favourite Lord and why?

[Anacybele]

In absolute fairness, Ike isn't of royal blood so he didn't really have any personal responsibility to make sure Daein was taken care of after the war. Basically, he's nothing more than a tool for his employer, Elincia, to take back her country. And once his duty, winning back Crimea, was done it was sort of on Elincia and the other nobles of Tellius to figure out what to do with Daein.

I thought it was said somewhere that since Ike literally conquered Nevassa, he could've actually taken the Daein throne himself? Except decided to hand rule of Daein to Begnion instead.

[Lord Raven]

Ramon and Mishaha died too, so that's not really what I'm getting at.

Yeah, but they died pretty much at the start of the game. Ashnard's been king for like a decade by that point, and he killed his relatives. Edited February 2, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Loki Laufeyson]

I thought it was said somewhere that since Ike literally conquered Nevassa, he could've actually taken the Daein throne himself? Except decided to hand rule of Daein to Begnion instead.

There is no dialogue to even suggest this. What was pointed to, is Crimea literally conquered Nevassa and Ike hands it over to Zelgius in Elincia's name.

[Anacybele]

Oh, I must have just remembered entirely wrong then, somehow...

[Sunwoo]

I thought it was said somewhere that since Ike literally conquered Nevassa, he could've actually taken the Daein throne himself? Except decided to hand rule of Daein to Begnion instead.

I recall nothing of the sort in the dialogue, although I'd have to look in the script again. At most, Sephiran told Ike that as the hero of Crimea, "no post will be beyond your reach". Which only extends to posts within Crimea, and not Daein unless Elincia took over Daein (she didn't) and appointed Ike a position in Daein.

Let's ignore the fact that Ike doesn't want to be king. How would the common people of Daein view Ike? They would see him as an usurper. They wouldn't want him around. And again, he did not hand rule of Daein to Begnion. That was Elincia. Ike has NO POWER, NO SAY in what happens to Daein after he overthrew Ashnard because he has no authority. In reality, Ike is a man who is respected by his peers, but holds no power. So he gets used as a pawn for all the other rulers so that they can accomplish their goals.

[solrocknroll]

Lyn. Statwise she just didn't do it for me. I don't care for meatlug Ike either, but PoR is fine.

My favorites are Micaiah for her saviorness and great stats for me (yue please inhabit ike instead), and Chrom and Lucina for the feels and their personality and man does Mercer do a hot voice.

[CT075]

ike could theoretically have taken control of daein, as at the time daein was technically just a territory of crimea

(it wasn't his fault that begnion took control, as he gave up any right to control the fate of daein once he chose not to rule it himself)

[Bankai]

I can't say anymore about Ike then what's been said.

[Radiant head]

Yeah, but they died pretty much at the start of the game. Ashnard's been king for like a decade by that point, and he killed his relatives.

Really? I thought Ashnard pretty much started his war as soon as he was in power.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Honestly, I hate how RD tries to revise Daein into some kind of victim nation. Of course there are innocent people in Daein, but I mean they try to give you the impression that Ashnard did everything alone, even though the war crimes go way deeper than one person. Haar and Jill talk about how Daein indoctrinates people into hating laguz/sub-humans and going on hunts. Seems like a really messed up country even before Ashnard.

Also, you don't really hear about altruistic Daein kings like King Ramon or the Apostle.

Oh hell naw to this post. Perspective shift is the best thing about Tellius, bruh. Daein is a nation full of human beings who have human emotions. Sure, Daein seems like a funky ass country, but thats kind of the point. Begnion is actually worse in terms of corruption. We are missing some lore about Daein's history, yes. But i find that country to be the most interesting in Tellius.

Micaiah conveniently forgets Daein attacked Crimea first. She blames Ike alone for her country's destruction, not Ashnard, or even Begnion, who provided significant assistance to Crimea in the war.

Which...is the point. Perspective shift. Shes the Point of View of a common person in Daein who felt really victimized during Mad King's War. I actually really like that Micaiah holds this viewpoint on Ike. in PoR, theres a convo involving Jill where a lady goes on a tangent about how Crimea is an invading force and bullshit. Ike is standing right there, but this is a common woman and doesnt know him. So shes like "protect Lady Fizzart and give those Crimeans hell!" and Jill is all "Im sorry.." to Ike and Ike says "Dont be." He gets it. He knows it looks bad. Micaiah really didnt know the whole story and i dont blame her for not knowing. Sothe did but she doesnt care cuz she knows what she saw. Bringing up Ike is a sore spot with her. It makes her human.

ike could theoretically have taken control of daein, as at the time daein was technically just a territory of crimea

(it wasn't his fault that begnion took control, as he gave up any right to control the fate of daein once he chose not to rule it himself)

Well i feel like Ike had no idea what his decision even meant. Or that he even had that kind of control. Passing it over to Begnion seemed logical at the time. Elincia being so naive and not really knowing how to politics meant she couldnt really rule it either. "To be fair, Crimea doesnt have the resources to rule another country." One of those few times Sothe is right about something.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Really? I thought Ashnard pretty much started his war as soon as he was in power.

Uhh no. He was on the throne for about 18 or so years before he started that war.

[CT075]

handing daein to begnion was the politically correct choice

consider that elincia would have massive pressure from both begnion and her own advisors to just not deal with daein, as it's just a distraction during rebuilding. yes, having ike rule it was a possibility (as much as anyone would like to deny it, it definitely was - he was the general that almost singlehandedly wrecked daein, it would be too easy, politically, to just install him there semi-permanently), but he chose not to. so what's left? let them self-rule? that would never fly; fuck, it still didn't fly however many years (three?) later, there's no way it would get approved just after liberation. the only choice remaining was begnion.

Edited February 2, 2015 by CT075

[Loki Laufeyson]

handing daein to begnion was the politically correct choice

consider that elincia would have massive pressure from both begnion and her own advisors to just not deal with daein, as it's just a distraction during rebuilding. yes, having ike rule it was a possibility (as much as anyone would like to deny it, it definitely was - he was the general that almost singlehandedly wrecked daein, it would be too easy, politically, to just install him there semi-permanently), but he chose not to. so what's left? let them self-rule? that would never fly; fuck, it still didn't fly however many years (three?) later, there's no way it would get approved just after liberation. the only choice remaining was begnion.

Yes but i dont think it was Ike who realized that, you know. *makes a coughing noise that sounds suspiciously like the word "Soren"* And to be fair, no one anticipated that Begnion would ram Daein in the arse like that.

[Magical Glace]

What? This is all a bunch of garbage. You talk like Ike was the villain. Ike did not destroy Daein and he did not hate the country for what they were doing. He actually tried to HELP some Daein citizens by offering them food and gold, but they spat on him. Yet Ike still says later that he has no quarrel with the Daein people, only Ashnard and his followers. This is another thing I love about Ike. He has a way of getting to people with his kindness and passion. He gained REYSON'S trust of all things and shit. And he and his men closed a floodgate that, if left open, would've destroyed Daein villages. Ike cared about people. Micaiah doesn't seem to care about anything but herself and Daein (and Sothe, I guess).

He also didn't leave Daein to rot, he handed it to Begnion. He didn't want to leave the Daein people high and dry without someone to enforce law and order and someone that could help the poor folks. Ike somehow didn't foresee Begnion treating them like crap though, which does rather surprise me. But I can't EVER believe Ike would just abandon them after he tried to help them during the fighting.

As for Micaiah not destroying Begnion, HELLO, they put her and her country under a fucking BLOODPACT. There was no way she could just try and waltz up to them and defeat them.

And why does that surprise you...? In Micaiah's and Daein's eyes Ike WAS the villain. He conquered them, then let Elincia let Begnion treat them like swine.

Honestly, had Ike and his mercenaries not been there, Daein would have won. They are practically the only reason that Daein lost. Granted, Ike himself didn't do a whole lot of it, but he was the icon of the army. Of course Daein's going to hate him after that.

Micaiah did not learn about the Blood Pact until 3-13, and it didn't exist until after the end of Part 1. Daniel's post was mostly about part 1, if you actually read it. Since that what I was replying to, the pact is irrelevant to my post, no?

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

Up until a couple of years ago it was Lyn. She's a retcon whose every action, every development, whose very existence is utterly irrelevant plus she's the "fragile speedster" sort of unit I rarely enjoy using anyway.

But now Chrom exists and his hypocritical incoherent ass wins in a landslide. I like him more than Lyn at her best but I dislike him waaaaay more than Lyn at her worst.

[Nobody]

Honestly, had Ike and his mercenaries not been there, Daein would have won. They are practically the only reason that Daein lost. Granted, Ike himself didn't do a whole lot of it, but he was the icon of the army. Of course Daein's going to hate him after that.

And Crimea would be fucked. As I said, Micaiah is selfish. She doesn't care about anything that isn't Daein. You can like her despite that. I don't.

And why does that surprise you...? In Micaiah's and Daein's eyes Ike WAS the villain. He conquered them, then let Elincia let Begnion treat them like swine.

Begnion was a much bigger country than both Crimea and Daein put together. If they wanted to rule Daein, there was nothing that Ike and Elincia could do to stop them, even if they knew the atrocities they'd comit (which they didn't). Begnion ruling Daein was expected, and they kind of brought it on themselves for starting a war they weren't guaranteed to win.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Nobody

[Magical Glace]

And Crimea would be fucked. As I said, Micaiah is selfish. She doesn't care about anything that isn't Daein. You can like her despite that. I don't.

ASHNARD WASN'T CRUEL TO CRIMEA.

ITS PEOPLE GOT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES IN RELATIVE NORMALITY EVEN WITH THE POWER CHANGE.

Caring about your country isn't selfish. She doesn't gain a whole lot out of it. She's loyal to a fault, yes, but I don't think that makes her selfish.

Actually, the fact this is played as a prominent fault is why I like her so much.

Whatever, it's not like people actually listen anyway...

[Baldrick]

@Nobody: I agree with that assessment tbh. Micaiah gets a bad rap at times, I don't think she was intended to be a heroic figure.

@Loki: Yeah, it's logical and in-character that Micaiah resents Ike for his role in the war and ignores Ashnard's contribution. But she's not really justified in holding that viewpoint as fact.

@Glacion: Are you saying that Elincia and Ike condoned Begnion's treatment of Daein? If so, you'll need to provide evidence for that claim. If not, you should choose your words more carefully.

Anyway, Micaiah was prepared to burn Sanaki to death in order to save Daein, so I don't think she can claim any moral high ground there.

[NinjaMonkey]

You know, if I Battle Save abused enough, gave her every stat booster and poured a tonne of BEXP into her, I could get a Micaiah with perfect stats too. Hell. I could do this to Fiona or Lyre if I wanted to. So this really doesn't mean anything, especially that she's good..

Edited February 2, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Nobody]

ASHNARD WASN'T CRUEL TO CRIMEA.

ITS PEOPLE GOT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES IN RELATIVE NORMALITY EVEN WITH THE POWER CHANGE.

Caring about your country isn't selfish. She doesn't gain a whole lot out of it. She's loyal to a fault, yes, but I don't think that makes her selfish.

Actually, the fact this is played as a prominent fault is why I like her so much.

Whatever, it's not like people actually listen anyway...

So they should have let Ashnard take control of Crimea just because he "wasn't cruel to the average crimean citizen"

Also, you do seem to forget that according to the game's lore, ashnard taking control of the continent would end up with tellius being completely destroyed. Sorry, but what Micaiah did by liberating Daein was exactly the same Ike did by liberating Crimea. The only difference is that Micaiah didn't need to ask another kingdom for help unlike Ike, and Ike only had to do that because there was no way he could have won otherwise. You can't hate Ike for doing what he did while enforcing Micaiah's actions. Her disliking for Ike is understandable, because hypocrisy is an understandable human trait. You like her flaws, I think her flaws make her an unlikable character (but in a good way, as I said in my post)

Edited February 2, 2015 by Nobody

[Anacybele]

ASHNARD WASN'T CRUEL TO CRIMEA.

ITS PEOPLE GOT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES IN RELATIVE NORMALITY EVEN WITH THE POWER CHANGE.

Uh, Ashnard torched Melior and killed Elincia's parents. How is that not cruel?

[Loki Laufeyson]

ASHNARD WASN'T CRUEL TO CRIMEA.

ITS PEOPLE GOT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES IN RELATIVE NORMALITY EVEN WITH THE POWER CHANGE.

This is actually the case. Its why we are shown Port Toha in PoR and why the Merchants in RD talk about it. Ashnard didnt put people into concentration camps which would lead to crops failing and the nation starving. Soren talks about how people pay in the form of taxes for safety. He isnt wrong. Ashnard didnt give much of a fuck, his intent was to wake Yune via war. (cuz he couldnt figure out how to get her out of the medallion the other way. He kept trying and failing.) Ashnard didnt even hate laguz the way the Begnion senate did. Ashnard saw them as a means to an end. (very Darwinist) Begnion wanted to exterminate them as we learn in RD. Hes not a nice guy by any means, but hes an incredible villain once you look at the big picture.

@Loki: Yeah, it's logical and in-character that Micaiah resents Ike for his role in the war and ignores Ashnard's contribution. But she's not really justified in holding that viewpoint as fact.

Bolded: Bruh, im not sure how much i have to stress that thats the bloody point. Shes not supposed to be justified exactly. We are supposed to go "Micaiah, dont be thick"

[Anacybele]

No, it's not quite true, Loki. See what I said above. Ashnard obliterated Melior and personally killed Elincia's parents. Those peasants are much like Americans today. They're not told anything.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Anacybele

[CT075]

Yes but i dont think it was Ike who realized that, you know. *makes a coughing noise that sounds suspiciously like the word "Soren"* And to be fair, no one anticipated that Begnion would ram Daein in the arse like that.

ike really didn't give a fuck

soren would have understood that ike was the sole choice for a real daein ruler, but so what? that's none of anybody's concerns, especially not the mercenary group who got pulled into the mess purely by chance. even if soren had urged him to take it (which i really don't think he would have; as you say, nobody knew that begnion was going to be a shithole), i really can't see ike taking it. he's by no means forced into the position (unlike the "you're general, period" situations, there is a good alternative - begnion), why would he take something taht is so clearly out of his comfort zone?

Uh, Ashnard torched Melior and killed Elincia's parents. How is that not cruel?

elincia is not the average crimean citizen

multiple cities in daein were destroyed, and ashnard was honestly the best thing daein had for a while. it was good enough that shinon even defected for a shot at ashnard's policies

ashnard isn't particularly cruel to anybody in particular unless it happens to be exactly within his goals - torching melior and putting the king and queen to the torch is exactly the way to draw the eye of literally the entire continent. why wouldn't he do it? he isn't randomly cruel without reason, he's cruel for a purpose

E:

for that matter, the peasants in the random town really don't give a fuck. it's explicity said that nobody really cares who's in charge as long as their work is uninterrupted

Edited February 2, 2015 by CT075

[Loki Laufeyson]

No, it's not quite true, Loki. See what I said above. Ashnard obliterated Melior and personally killed Elincia's parents. Those peasants are much like Americans today. They're not told anything.

You are missing my point. My point is that Begnion is actually more oppressive and hideous to the nation of Daein, than Ashnard was to a nation he was occupying. Ashnard murders Elincia's parents. He occupies the capital. And then what? He tries to invade Gallia simply because he wants a huge scale war. Along the way, all he really does to Crimea's people, is press them for information. The BK actually is the guy handling this business and you'll notice hes not outright cruel either.