The State of Nintendo

[Sentacotus]

The people who never played games before will never play them because they are not interested on those or they die, but yeah i think they would play nintendo rather then ps or xbox because there are so many games for the whole family

lets be honest, my grandparents say that they are most happy when they see the whole family having fun so i think that in this case they would own a nintendo console then a ps/xbox

Which in all honesty is pretty cool. The problem is that these families and and so on have gravitated to Ipads and smartphones and now have no need for a $250-$300 console.

Whats even worse is that kids seem to be moving more and more to be things like call of duty so they get an xbox. I'm not holding that one against Nintendo because thats more of a societal issue for a different thread. The one thing I'll hold against them is their inability to get Advanced Warfare (and likely future CoD titles) onto their console especially when they got ghosts and black ops II. The install base wasn't big enough for activision to make the investment of a port and they wanted more powerful hardware which is bs considering that they even released it on the 360 (a 10 year old platform) but it shows you how sad third party has become for Nintendo. Shit even the Wii got MW3 albiet a bad version of it but still.

I'm not the biggest fan of CoD but its just one of many examples.

Edited February 3, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Perfect Infinitive Exitus]

Which in all honesty is pretty cool. The problem is that these families and and so on have gravitated to Ipads and smartphones and now have no need for a $250-$300 console.

Whats even worse is that kids seem to be moving more and more to be things like call of duty so they get an xbox. I'm not holding that one against Nintendo because thats more of a societal issue for a different thread. The one thing I'll hold against them is their inability to get Advanced Warfare (and likely future CoD titles) onto their console especially when they got ghosts and black ops II. The install base wasn't big enough for activision to make the investment of a port and they wanted more powerful hardware which is bs considering that they even released it on the 360 (a 10 year old platform) but it shows you how sad third party has become for Nintendo. Shit even the Wii got MW3 albiet a bad version of it but still.

I'm not the biggest fan of CoD but its just one of many examples.

Yeah smartphones are a whole different level, since they can do much more then a console, you can... phone and stuff, also you have games there that are only there for spending a short period of time playing, like candy crush or angry birds, you can play handhelds in the train but you will be glared at and the people will look ad you with weird faces, insted spending 10 minutes in the train playing angry birds is much more comfortable then playing a handheld, also handheld games are something like tloz or mario, you need to finish the level, then save especially with rpg's it is not worth playing in train, also smartphones can emulate up to ps1 and N64 so why a console?

also vonsoles are desinged for people who have much freetime like students or pupils

Nintendo is child firndly, family friendly, but ps and xbox you can play with friends and such and let your hate and rage out you have gained because of teachers and bullies in games like Call of durano or other shooters

Edited February 3, 2015 by Flareragnarok

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

They learned from SEGA about going third party. Name a good Sonic game released in past 10 years. Now imagine the same situation with Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and all the other franchises you love.

You make it sound like Sonic games went to mostly garbage because Sega went third party and that Nintendo going that route will make their games garbage. Really?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

They learned from SEGA about going third party. Name a good Sonic game released in past 10 years. Now imagine the same situation with Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and all the other franchises you love.

And what exactly dictates that Nintendo WILL most certainly see the same fate? They would still have the 3DS for hardware sales and it's not like they're doing much with the series you mentioned anyway.

Mario's practically Nintendo's Call of Duty. I do like Mario games but like CoD they're frequent and look very much alike.

Zelda's ok but i'm gonna chalk this one to preference. I'm done with Zelda personally, the games have become so easy and the games starting you off with 30 minutes of mundane gameplay pretty much turn any entry since Twilight Princess into one-playthrough game.

I love Metroid but that series seems so dead after Other M and is actually one of those series that isn't really called "Kiddy".

As a third party developer, I think Nintendo would only do bad if they were exclusive to the Xbox Platform. The PS platform has lots of games that seem friendly for young audiences they do just fine.

[Sentacotus]

You make it sound like Sonic games went to mostly garbage because Sega went third party and that Nintendo going that route will make their games garbage. Really?

Point is one of Nintendo's strengths with having been around so long is having seen certain things and knowing what to avoid. People have been clamoring for Nintendo to go third party since the Gamecube was announced. I think this is probably one of the reasons they've avoided going third party along with consumer confidence in their product.

A bit of a slippery slope I know but while you can say going third party would not kill Nintendo I don't think it would just magically solve all their problems either. For that matter it could create new problems like deciding which console to develop for and spliting an already unified fan base.

EDIT: Also could you really imagine Nintendo working with Sony after the whole rejection for the N64 CD and the bitter rivalry that resulted in the conception of the PS1?

Edited February 3, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Bankai]

About Nintendo going third party it all depends is if they're exclusive to one system.

[Perfect Infinitive Exitus]

If Nintendo would go 3rd party, ww3 would break out

[Bankai]

I've met people that think if they made a Pokemon MMO it might become the most addictive game ever created.

[Ema Skye]

I really don't approve of anything they've done recently, though they're the only gaming company who's exclusives I actually like.

The sketchy situations involving mass Amiibo shortages and mass Gamecube controller adapters are really lame considering they've said that they will only be doing one run of them (and retailers are aware of this too. A US Target posted information from Nintendo stating that retailer exclusive Amiibos won't be printed again). You hype up these products for six months, they get sold out in a matter of days and you have no plans to make any more.

The Youtube thing pushes me over the edge though. This is free advertising for your own products. There are several games I've gone out and bought because I've seen them played on Youtube and Nintendo is generally crap at promoting anything beyond their big releases of the year (Mario Kart, Smash, Bayo 2 and now Zelda). I've turned on my adblocker on Youtube because I can't tolerate knowing that Nintendo is making profits off of the hard work these people do and I instead donate to them privately. It's similar to a hypothetical event where Nintendo went to Gamestop and said "If you want to sell our games, you need to pay us money just to put them on your shelf". It's beyond stupid and I really hope it bites them in the butt.

Then there's just general stupid stuff like no N64 games or no DS games (they had DS games working on Wii U years ago) that don't really anger me as much as just make me laugh at how dumb they are.

Regarding the console names, I know people who worked in Wal-mart and were consistently asked if Wii U was a update to their Wii. I can't imagine how confusing the New 3DS is making things. "Mom, I'd like a New 3DS. Not a new old 3DS. A new New 3DS".

Love their games but I wish they just would sell me their games/consoles and ignore the rest of the world.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Point is one of Nintendo's strengths with having been around so long is having seen certain things and knowing what to avoid. People have been clamoring for Nintendo to go third party since the Gamecube was announced. I think this is probably one of the reasons they've avoided going third party along with consumer confidence in their product.

Perhaps when it comes to the past but when you take the actions they've taken this gen, it doesn't seem like the understand the present as well.

A bit of a slippery slope I know but while you can say going third party would not kill Nintendo I don't think it would just magically solve all their problems either. For that matter it could create new problems like deciding which console to develop for and spliting an already unified fan base.

So basically if every new home console ends up doing as bad as the Wii U, Nintendo should still remain a first party company developing exclusively for the their hardware system just avoid the possibility of the more irrational fans from disliking them? Again, they still have their 3DS for hardware and if the home console isn't selling very well and they stick to being just first-party, they're restricting opportunity.

EDIT: Also could you really imagine Nintendo working with Sony after the whole rejection for the N64 CD and the bitter rivalry that resulted in the conception of the PS1?

Yes. It's definitely a possibility. SONY could be petty and just say no because of what happened back then or they have Nintendo develop games for their systems using the flock of IPs they've got.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Sirius

[Perfect Infinitive Exitus]

Youtube advertising works like this,

when you play a game that is more interesting then you,the game advertises you

e.g. lets play minecraft/CoD/Ass/whatever when you have 0-10000 subscribest

when you play a game that is less interesting then you, you advertise for the game and the game becomes more interesting

e.g. angry video game nerd/pewdiepie/everypersonwith>3000000subs playing a unknown game

[Nobody]

Nintendo got really consistent profits this last year. They're relatively fine.

Even the Wii U is giving them money now, despite the weak sales.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Nobody

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

Nintendo can always stick with the PC instead, should they go third-party. And I think that is a smarter move than putting them on the PS/Xbox consoles (especially with this console generation's already-laughable track record).

[Sentacotus]

My comments are in red not out of anger I just figured its easier to present this way. I actually like some of the counterpoints you all are making they are some things I haven't thought of.

Perhaps when it comes to the past but when you take the actions they've taken this gen, it doesn't seem like the understand the present as well.

I see what you're saying here and its a valid point. I'm just speaking from the viewpoint that I think Nintendo is taking on potentially going third party.

So basically if every new home console ends up doing as bad as the Wii U, Nintendo should still remain a first party company developing exclusively for the their hardware system just avoid the possibility of the more irrational fans from disliking them? Again, they still have their 3DS for hardware and if the home console isn't selling very well and they stick to being just first-party, they're restricting opportunity.

Who has to say every console has to do as bad as the Wii U? The concept of consumer confidence is something that still holds true today. Look at what sega did with all their add-ons and failed systems released within one year gaps of one another. People said forget it about buying the new systems because they were just going to release something later. The problem with going third party is whos to say it wouldn't erode consumer confidence in Nintendo's games at that point. There already is a stigma against it (aka Sonic) and if Nintendo was to fail to the point that they had to go third party you don't think people wouldn't see that? Again in this case they could be the enigma and completely do a 180 of what Sega did to Sonic and just be a kickass developer.

Yes. It's definitely a possibility. SONY could be petty and just say no because of what happened back then or they have Nintendo develop games for their systems using the flock of IPs they've got.

SONY is a business and will do what it takes to make money (at least in gaming). But I find it really hard to believe they would just work with Nintendo. The whole CDi/Nintendo CD debacle is the whole reason they have a gaming division thats largly dominated the market since its inception in the first place. I don't really think the two could cooperate well. If anything I think if that were to happen SONY would do its best to buyout Nintendo outright to prevent them from becoming future competition if they were recover from third party software sales and they could still get the Nintendo IPs they are a business after all (although as a company SONY is not doing too hot right now to do a buyout). Again this is all speculation so I could be dead wrong (in reality I probably am)

Edit red is a bit tough on the eyes so I changed my comments to blue

Edited February 3, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Nobody]

Nintendo can always stick with the PC instead, should they go third-party. And I think that is a smarter move than putting them on the PS/Xbox consoles (especially with this console generation's already-laughable track record).

I disagree

Most of the video game audience is on consoles. They'd sell way more if they put their games on Xbox or PlayStation rather than PC.

Neither of those is happening any time soon, though

Edited February 3, 2015 by Nobody

[Perfect Infinitive Exitus]

I think nintendo prits munny with handhelds to experiment with home consoles, so they develop "the ultimate home console" or something like that

it could be a possibility, they also experimented with powerglove and such, the only reason they were so bad was, that they were for the NES and the stuff was not worth it.

maybe nintendo purposely develop things like powerglove and such to make something like the wii and such happening, maybe the powerglove was intended to suck so that other companies(sega) would not even start with motion controsl.

maybe nintendo was a mastermind all the time.

or maybe it just sucked.

[Blademaster!]

Nintendo will at some point have to exit the console market, but that isn't their fault. They're doing well with the 3DS, but pretty much every single investor out there is begging them to enter the handheld phone market, and that market is overtaking the handheld console market if it hasn't already done so. They also lack the power to truly advertise their products on the same level as Microsoft and Sony, since advertising campaigns are pretty much why the PS4 sold so well. Then you also factor in the rising PC gaming market and the home console market also slowly starts to shrink away, hence why people are already saying this or next gen will be the last gen of home consoles.

Overall they're still in a much better position as a business than Sony last I checked, and they have a strong fanbase so I doubt anything bad will ever really happen with them anytime soon. They just need to figure out how to adapt to the ever changing market.

[Perfect Infinitive Exitus]

Nintendo will at some point have to exit the console market, but that isn't their fault. They're doing well with the 3DS, but pretty much every single investor out there is begging them to enter the handheld phone market, and that market is overtaking the handheld console market if it hasn't already done so. They also lack the power to truly advertise their products on the same level as Microsoft and Sony, since advertising campaigns are pretty much why the PS4 sold so well. Then you also factor in the rising PC gaming market and the home console market also slowly starts to shrink away, hence why people are already saying this or next gen will be the last gen of home consoles.

Overall they're still in a much better position as a business than Sony last I checked, and they have a strong fanbase so I doubt anything bad will ever really happen with them anytime soon. They just need to figure out how to adapt to the ever changing market.

That means you say nintendo should give up on home consoles?

Imagine nintendo would give up the home console market

and would concentrate much more for handhelds like 3ds

...

now imagine a 3ds with ps4 capabilities bc nintendo spent much time improoving it

...

now imagine getting >10gb game content in one cartridge

...

Now imagine GC games and everything below in the 3ds shop or as new games, officially remade

...

Now imagine playing it

you would die simply because it would be that awesome

but you would not have a family you can play with

you would not see your family ever again bc of the awesomeness

and you would die of loneliness bc of the awesomeness

maybe this would happen, i don't know i cannot see in the future

[Locust]

Maybe they'll do better next time around. I don't want Nintendo to go bankrupt or third party since they make most of my favourite video game series. I'm no expert on the video game market so I don't know what they could do. Make a more powerful console and don't give it a silly name? I bought the Wii U on launch myself since I don't care about power or a consoles name, it just has to have games that I want to play.

[LuxSpes]

Nintendo has made plenty of questionable decisions lately. First is regarding their marketing, especially around the Wii U. It seems nintendo expected all the consumers who bought a Wii would be aware that the Wii U is a new console and would be interested in buying it. However, they handled the reveal of their console poorly and then subsequently fail to advertise to the mass market that Wii U wasn't just a gamepad add-on to the original Wii. Furthermore, most of the mass market success of the Wii came from people who don't play games and bought it because it was the novelty of the moment. Nowadays, that crowd has moved on to cellphone games, but it seems like Nintendo didn't predict that when they launched the Wii U.

Then there's the whole New 3DS which is just a continuing of the unclear marketing as well as another problem in itself in my opinion.

[spoiler=n3DS rant]Suddenly releasing a semi-upgrade to a console 4 years after its release seemed like a bad move to me, especially when they said that the console would have its own exclusives. While for now, the only exclusive announced for it is Xenoblade Chronicles, it's already a bigger exclusive than what the DSi got. Sure, Xenoblade is a Wii game that has been released for 4 years, but it's not only a rare game, but also one that is in high demand in comparison to the low offer. (I'll add that I look at the release of XC as a n3DS exclusive even more unfavorably since Nintendo recently released another extremely rare Wii game as a cheap download on the E-shop: Metroid Prime Trilogy.) If XC remains the only n3DS exclusive, I'm probably fine not getting one since I was lucky enough to get XC when it was released on the Wii. But I find it disappointing that Nintendo fans who own a Wii and 3DS but missed out on the game will have to buy a n3DS if they want to play the game. And while I know that Nintendo made the same semi-upgrade mid-gen before, like the GB color and the DSi, I don't feel they're the same case since the color came years after the GBs release and the DSi only had an handful of pretty low profile exclusive. /end of rant against n3DS

And the Youtube partner thing is also a pretty big misstep. Having an influential Youtube make a video about your game just amount to free advertising. Games from Goat Simulator to Five Nights at Freddy's blew up thanks to Youtubers. Making them jumps through hoops just so they can upload videos about your games for a smaller margin of profits when compared to other options certainly won't make people eager to put out vids of your games and considerably reduce their potential exposure (I guess this is another blunder for Nintendo's marketing).

As far as 3rd-gen support is concerned, I feel that in some case, the devs is just as much responsible for the poor sales of the game than Nintendo. Some devs seem to butch their ports to make quick money, but then complain when their inferior port doesn't sell (and the blame for the lack of quality of these ports don't just lie with Nintendo's weaker consoles, but also at the feet of the devs that didn't try to optimize their game for the weaker console. If you're going to half-ass your port, just don't do a port at all). Just take a look at how Ubisoft released Watch Dogs on the Wii U months after the game had came out on other consoles and the hype balloon had completely deflated.

On the other hand, I would be pretty sad if Nintendo stopped making consoles since they seems to be the one that are the most eager to test out new things with their consoles. They hit the jackpot with motion control on the wii and dual screens on the DS and while I still don't see the appeal of 3D aside of an aesthetic appeal, I've come to enjoy the simple improvements the gamepad adds to my gaming experience. The PS4 and XBONE meanwhile are pretty much clones of each other, with little difference to set them apart from one another and their predecessors aside of exclusives and power.

As far as Nintendo's next console, I would be really interested in a continuation of the Wii U's ability of giving you more freedom away from your TV screen by making a portable/home console hybrid. So when you have to leave the house, you can take your games with you and put them back on the TV screen when you come back.

Edited February 3, 2015 by LuxSpes

[Kiseki]

I can't imagine how confusing the New 3DS is making things. "Mom, I'd like a New 3DS. Not a new old 3DS. A new New 3DS".

I actually had this happen at my place recently. My sister wants a New 3DS on her birthday and Mom was confused.

As far as I'm aware, the PS4 is literally the only thing that gets Sony money nowadays. Last I checked, they're bankrupt and the PS4 only pays a fraction of that bankruptcy.

I don't think third-party games now are even good in terms of quality, so maybe that's the reason Nintendo's holding back on those. All the big titles advertised nowadays are either first or second-party. Out of the third-party games I've played/seen, only a very small number of them, close to just one, actually stood out to me. I don't think going PC would ever be a good choice either. Many of my friends have said that whenever there's a console alternative for a PC game, the console option's always the better option.

On the other hand, I would be pretty sad if Nintendo stopped making consoles since they seems to be the one that are the most eager to test out new things with their consoles. They hit the jackpot with motion control on the wii and dual screens on the DS and while I still don't see the appeal of 3D aside of an aesthetic appeal, I've come to enjoy the simple improvements the gamepad adds to my gaming experience. The PS4 and XBONE meanwhile are pretty much clones of each other, with little difference to set them apart from one another and their predecessors aside of exclusives and power.

As far as Nintendo's next console, I would be really interested in a continuation of the Wii U's ability of giving you more freedom away from your TV screen by making a portable/home console hybrid. So when you have to leave the house, you can take your games with you and put them back on the TV screen when you come back.

I would've basically said this myself, except I did see an appeal in the 3D. I just didn't use it because it used up more battery power.

Another thing I've noticed is that in the previous generation people would say "PS3 and Xbox 360 are the way to go!" so I've been thinking that many people still have that same mindset with no awareness of the grand innovation Nintendo comes up with.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Kiseki

[Tryhard]

All these long posts.

Nintendo will be fine, they have a huge amount of money even if the Wii U can be considered a "failure" and could afford several more failures.

Honestly, it would be pretty bad if Nintendo bowed out of the home console market. Then it would be considered a two-horse race between Sony and Microsoft, which are similiar to each other already, unless someone else stepped up and you know by American politics that isn't a good thing. If there is no competition and there is a monopoly, there is no desire to improve their product. So a third party Nintendo? I think that would end up just being worse for consumers. I would say the same thing about Sony and Microsoft, and this from a primarily Playstation and PC guy. I still far prefer the PS4 if I had to choose and probably will as it looks to have the brighter future, but I never really was interested in the Nintendo exclusives anyway.

Can't say that I haven't found Nintendo's recent policies quite shitty, though.

Many of my friends have said that whenever there's a console alternative for a PC game, the console option's always the better option.

This is like the first time I've ever heard that.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Tryhard

[Alertcircuit]

PC has a huge market actually, but I don't know if it's the one Nintendo would want. I was under the impression that PC gaming was mainly for teenagers and adults, because of like the pretty high cost just for a "decent" rig. Lot easier for a kid to ask for a $100-$300 Nintendo console instead of an $800 gaming PC.

[Sentacotus]

Nintendo has made plenty of questionable decisions lately. First is regarding their marketing, especially around the Wii U. It seems nintendo expected all the consumers who bought a Wii would be aware that the Wii U is a new console and would be interested in buying it. However, they handled the reveal of their console poorly and then subsequently fail to advertise to the mass market that Wii U wasn't just a gamepad add-on to the original Wii. Furthermore, most of the mass market success of the Wii came from people who don't play games and bought it because it was the novelty of the moment. Nowadays, that crowd has moved on to cellphone games, but it seems like Nintendo didn't predict that when they launched the Wii U.

As far as 3rd-gen support is concerned, I feel that in some case, the devs is just as much responsible for the poor sales of the game than Nintendo. Some devs seem to butch their ports to make quick money, but then complain when their inferior port doesn't sell (and the blame for the lack of quality of these ports don't just lie with Nintendo's weaker consoles, but also at the feet of the devs that didn't try to optimize their game for the weaker console. If you're going to half-ass your port, just don't do a port at all). Just take a look at how Ubisoft released Watch Dogs on the Wii U months after the game had came out on other consoles and the hype balloon had completely deflated.

Hit the nail on the head. During E3 they showed off the gamepad with a name like Wii U now at face value what the hell are you going to think it is? Contrast that when they showed the Revoloution and they brought out an actual console and held in the air. There was no question as to what it was.

For 3rd parties its a catch 22 for nintendo and a self-licking ice cream cone 3rd parties don't sell on the Wii U because they make shitty ports and don't want to risk the investment. But then Nintendo dosen't want to make the hardware to alleviate this risk. The cycle just repeats itself and its gotten worse since the N64 with their decision to go with cartridges rather than discs.

As far as I'm aware, the PS4 is literally the only thing that gets Sony money nowadays. Last I checked, they're bankrupt and the PS4 only pays a fraction of that bankruptcy.

I don't think third-party games now are even good in terms of quality, so maybe that's the reason Nintendo's holding back on those. All the big titles advertised nowadays are either first or second-party. Out of the third-party games I've played/seen, only a very small number of them, close to just one, actually stood out to me. I don't think going PC would ever be a good choice either. Many of my friends have said that whenever there's a console alternative for a PC game, the console option's always the better option.

Another thing I've noticed is that in the previous generation people would say "PS3 and Xbox 360 are the way to go!" so I've been thinking that many people still have that same mindset with no awareness of the grand innovation Nintendo comes up with.

Unfortunately that is true as of now for Sony. Right now their gaming division is the only profitable part of their company and they're having some serious financial problems with the bulk of their company particularly in the TV market (which is odd because they produce some of the best out there). I hope they figure out a way to pull out of it.

Reggie has stated that he would love to have CoD back on the Wii U. While some third party titles have been buggy and are kinda the same over and over again they still sell and like it or not a big majority of the gaming populace gravitates to titles like CoD, Madden, Assain's Creed, Far Cry 4, and any number of titles you see on PS4/XBONE but not Wii U so they see its not on the Wii U and they skip the console without giving it a second thought.

[Sasori]

I have no doubt that Nintendo can weather the whole Wii U situation. Sure its not massively profitable, but they have enough money to just sit that rough ride out, while trying to please their core audience. Nintendo usually performs very well when under pressure so i'm expecting their first party titles to still be good.

I do have concerns about what happens after the Wii U though. They could make a more powerfull machine to answer many people's wishes for them to compete with Sony and Microsoft again, but I'm wondering if that will actually solve anything. Nintendo still has an image problem as an outdated, kiddy console maker and their relationships with third parties hasn't improved either. They tried with the Gamecube and I have a feeling that their next powerfull console will just be ignored again by people outside of Nintendo's fanbase.