Agree or Disagree. Reddits Smash 4 Tier List

[Sunwoo]

I believe I also heard somewhere that Marth is generally safer on shield than Lucina. People who are more invested in analyzing SSB4 like Euklyd or Jedi can either confirm or correct me on this, but I think I also read that an opponent struck by Marth's tipper does significantly more damage and knock back than being hit with Lucina's sword, but the differences between their hits if one whiffs the tipper is less pronounced and that Marth is safer hitting a shield if he misses the tipper anyway.

[Comet]

I believe I also heard somewhere that Marth is generally safer on shield than Lucina. People who are more invested in analyzing SSB4 like Euklyd or Jedi can either confirm or correct me on this, but I think I also read that an opponent struck by Marth's tipper does significantly more damage and knock back than being hit with Lucina's sword, but the differences between their hits if one whiffs the tipper is less pronounced and that Marth is safer hitting a shield if he misses the tipper anyway.

this is correct. if marth spaces his fair, it does more shieldstun than lucina's. if he doesn't, he's stuck in less freeze frames, or something like that.

Edited February 10, 2015 by ID Thanatos

[euklyd]

this is correct. if marth spaces his fair, it does more shieldstun than lucina's. if he doesn't, he's stuck in less freeze frames, or something like that.

yeah basically

his sourspot has a <1 hitlag multiplier (so, less hitlag than normal)

while his sweetspot does have a >1 multiplier (so, more hitlag than normal), it inflicts more than enough shieldstun and shield knockback to compensate

it's just a few frames, to be sure, but those can be important

http://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

it is also worth reiterating that you should be spacing your attacks anyways.

as anyone. Marth just rewards you for doing something you're already supposed to

Edited February 11, 2015 by Euklyd

[Sentacotus]

i'm not quite sure about how ike's aether works, but i'm pretty sure he only has super armor when ragnell goes up, so he can probably be hit out of it by a spaced attack at the apex to avoid the hitbox protecting him (in PM at least i can space pika's f smash to beat it).

Aether has super armor right after the begining and for a split second when he initially lands.

[Anacybele]

Ike's Eruption has super armor as well, I believe.

[Comet]

pretty sure it only has it once it's charged a fair bit now iirc

[Jedi]

I'd imagine the recent advent of custom moves may change this list up significantly.

[Florete]

If custom moves at tournaments becomes the norm. They're trying it out, but I don't think it's guaranteed to stay yet.

I hope it stays, though.

[Anacybele]

I hope it stays too. Ike is way more viable with custom moves. Imo, Close Combat is what Quick Draw should've been all along, pretty much. Ike even goes right through his opponent when he uses the very move Quick Draw is based off of (his PoR Ranger critical).

[Jedi]

I agree entirely. Although I still like the Project M variant more, you can dash and you can choose to swing or not. This allows so many options (and gives him a wall jump)

[Anacybele]

Well, I don't have any interest in Project M (and I don't like the name either, personally). I just want to use a custom Ike in a tourney since that's what I've gotten used to now. :P

[Jedi]

Well, I don't have any interest in Project M (and I don't like the name either, personally). I just want to use a custom Ike in a tourney since that's what I've gotten used to now. :P

Well I was just explaining it anyways lol. You'd probably really love Ike in it though just saying :P

[Anacybele]

I'm sure I would, but from what I've heard, the game plays like Melee and I didn't like Melee much. Besides, Smash Wii U/3DS uses RD Ike. :3

Edited February 12, 2015 by Anacybele

[Jedi]

I'm sure I would, but from what I've heard, the game plays like Melee and I didn't like Melee much. Besides, Smash Wii U/3DS uses RD Ike. :3

Fair enough, and Radiant Dawn Ike does fit his playstyle a fair bit more.

BUT ANYWAYS, in general the customs are going to help loads of people.

[Sentacotus]

So if custom moves do become the norm at tournaments would it mean a readjustment of the tier list as some characters would become more viable as a result likely changing the metagame. I'm thinking specifically of guys like Ike and Gannondorf. Ike's customs like Furios Eruption expand the hitbox and close combat prevents people from simply shielding and pusnishing, Aether Drive gives horizontal recovery and Aether Wave gives him a bit of a projectile, and then theres the counters.

Gannondorf has expanded range with the sword punch I believe too.

In fact, now that I think about it how would you analyze it given the multiple possible combinations? Could you even make a tier list based on custom moves/combinations? My head hurts.

Edited February 12, 2015 by LordTaco42

[Anacybele]

Yes. And RD Ike was the thing I wanted most for this game! EEEEEE. <3 Thank you, Sakurai, for being so awesome and doing this. :D

Edited February 12, 2015 by Anacybele

[Jedi]

So if custom moves do become the norm at tournaments would it mean a readjustment of the tier as some characters would become more viable as a result likely changing the metagame. I'm thinking specifically of guys like Ike and Gannondorf. Ike's customs like Furios Eruption expand the hitbox and close combat prevents people from simply shielding and pusnishing, Aether Drive gives horizontal recovery and Aether Wave gives him a bit of a projectile, and then theres the counters.

Gannondorf has expanded range with the sword punch I believe too.

Ganondorf also gets more of a recovery with one of his down b's as well.

[Florete]

I think certain characters will see a boost, but for the most part, I don't think the tier list will change too drastically. Speed, weight, and smashes all stay the same, and customs are typically more about preference than better use.

[Kiseki]

I think certain characters will see a boost, but for the most part, I don't think the tier list will change too drastically. Speed, weight, and smashes all stay the same, and customs are typically more about preference than better use.

Yeah, things like the HOO HAH will still be prominent for the most part. I actually don't really use specials much when I play, so it isn't a big deal for me.

Characters who do rely on specials will most likely see a rise on the tier list, though.

[eclipse]

I think certain characters will see a boost, but for the most part, I don't think the tier list will change too drastically. Speed, weight, and smashes all stay the same, and customs are typically more about preference than better use.

I think Palutena would be REALLY HAPPY about having her customs available for tournament use. Whether or not this changes her position on tier lists is another matter entirely.

[Knife]

Link is higher than I thought. I wanted to main an underdog though.

[Sentacotus]

Yeah Link got really good in this game. Like Marth I think he does tip damage and he's quite a bit quicker, his long range grab is useful and is great for recovery too in some ways better than his regular up b. Plus he still has all his projectiles.

[Anacybele]

Okay, I said I would explore the Mii Swordsman since nobody else was and I've started keeping my word on that. :)

Part of my most recent post in the Smash Club thread:

I'm making nice progress on my Mii Swordsman research already. I introduced all of my Mii sword fighters to you guys too. I think I can conclude that this guy/girl is not bottom tier material, let alone the worst character in the game. I've concluded these things so far:

- That forward spinning move wrecks like hell...when you're careful with it. Notice I killed myself with it one time. lol But dat range and power, daaamn.

- Shuriken of Light is also a good projectile, probably the best one Mii Swordsman has. Fast and can rack up damage.

- Mii Swordsman is best when faster. I wrecked more with Ralph, Azura, and Kelli than I did with slow and luggy Frederick and Judo (though Freddy won a match, heh heh). But even a slow Mii swordsman can be kind of decent if you give them that forward spinning move I mentioned above, methinks.

- U-tilt and d-tilt are pretty sweet.

This is all I have so far though, I'd need to fiddle with these guys some more and find some actual combos and whatnot.

Of course, I was only playing 3-4 player matches at the time, but I think this can still somewhat apply to 1 vs 1 matches. I'll keep using my Miis and finding some combos next time.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Anacybele

[Sully]

Huh. I didn't expect Pikachu to move up so much, but I'm definitely not complaining. Also pretty happy about ZSS. Not quite sure about Rosalina or Sheik, but fair enough. Robin ought to be higher, though, and I'm surprised Lucina's so far down - even considering the tipper thing, I don't think that warrants a tier and a half of difference. Out of curiosity, why is the Mii Brawler so much higher up than the others? There's a few posts about Swordsman above, but I don't think I've seen anything about Gunner.

[kingddd]

Huh. I didn't expect Pikachu to move up so much, but I'm definitely not complaining. Also pretty happy about ZSS. Not quite sure about Rosalina or Sheik, but fair enough. Robin ought to be higher, though, and I'm surprised Lucina's so far down - even considering the tipper thing, I don't think that warrants a tier and a half of difference. Out of curiosity, why is the Mii Brawler so much higher up than the others? There's a few posts about Swordsman above, but I don't think I've seen anything about Gunner.

The thing is, Marth's tipper makes a significant difference in knockback if you can land it. Especially with forward smash where I have killed opponents who had 65% with the tip. It makes a significant difference if I can land it on an opponent whereas Lucina would require more damage output to get the same results.