Sentacotus Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Do you ever think that maybe we are all overthinking this all a bit. I mean all the references and allusions to Ike kinda heavily imply that Priam is a direct descendant. Love of meat check, hero class check, blue hair with green headband and red cape check check check, obsession with training and the blue flame check, Ragnell check, recognizes Ike on the spot (DLC and spotpass dialogue) check. Hell if I wouldn't have known that he was the descendant I would of guessed outright that he was his kid for crying out loud lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I always thought that Ike was either bi or simply doesn't really have much of an understanding of love. More likely the latter. He reminds me a bit of Ash Ketchum from Pokemon when it comes to some of his reactions to the females. Elincia's giggling at him, Marcia's calling him handsome, etc. all seemed to confuse him. These kinds of things confuse Ash too (hell, he didn't even get why he got kissed at the end of Pokemon Heroes. I imagine Ike to be similar if he suddenly got kissed. I see him being all 'whoa, okay, what was that for?' in a casual manner). Ike even had to go "is that why your hand always lingers on mine when you give me equipment?" when Aimee revealed that she's hitting on him. He wasn't sure why she did that at first, only that it was uncomfortable. I feel that if Ike develops feelings for anybody, he doesn't realize it, at least for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 It kind of does if you're implying Priam descends from this adopted kid. Legally adopted children are considered lineal descendants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timehopper Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Oh, I completely misunderstood Roy's post then. My apologies, deeply. >_< No offense, but statements like this from people just...well, annoy me. I don't know how else to put it, I'm trying hard not to say the wrong thing again and start trouble. Anyway, where do people get the idea that Elincia leaving Crimea for any reason is just horrible, awful, etc? I've seen them say it means she's completely abandoning it and everybody there, but how is that true? Can't she still care for Crimea and her friends there while away? I don't live in my home city, but I still love it and my family that lives there. Elincia can go home to visit if she wants to. Ike doesn't come back, but I doubt he would try to stop her if she wanted to see her friends. In fact, I kind of find that it was rather OoC for Ike to even leave as well. I've seen people say "Elincia would never let anyone else have the throne." I would agree with this, except Renning, who was raised to rule Crimea and supports many of the same ideas as his niece, exists. People then go "but he was messed up by the feral drug!" Didn't stop him from joining the battle in Part 4 Endgame. He seems just fine to me. He even helps Elincia rule when the war is over. If she trusts him with that, surely she could trust him with the throne itself. I can imagine it being a very hard decision for Elincia to leave for any reason, because she does indeed love her country and people. This is why I can't see her giving anyone but Renning the throne, and not leaving until she makes sure that happens. She wouldn't go anywhere without putting the country in good hands first. Elincia even said she never wanted to be queen, and while she did get a more level head later, that doesn't mean she changed her mind. She didn't grow up like a royal, so she seems like she favors the more common life more. I honestly expected her to leave her royal life behind to get with Ike (I can't see her marrying any other commoner), and I was surprised to see that her ending didn't have her do that. Sorry to drag this up again, but I really liked this post and I wanted to respond to it, because you make some interesting points. I feel like Elincia is too bound by duty to consider abdicating the throne to anyone, regardless of how much she loved them. She was willing to let Lucia die, after all. I reiterate: Lucia -- her dear friend, who she grew up with as a sister (putting aside shipping subtext for the time being, because I know this is a popular ship). Elincia puts her people and her nation first, so I just can't see her abandoning all of that for Ike. Or Geoffrey. Or Lucia. Or anyone else people ship her with. You make an interesting point with Renning though. But it seems the two of them agree he will not take the throne, and he supports Elincia being Queen in the epilogue, so I don't see that happening either. Although I admit it is a possibility, however slight. All that being said... I don't actually mind the idea of Priam being descended from her and Ike! I like the one-night stand idea for this in particular. Perhaps shortly before Ike left Tellius, he and Elincia had some sort of tryst? Perhaps she carried Ike's child in secret? Now, assuming Priam is Ike's son and not separated by a few generations -- or even if he is, now that I think of it -- maybe he left Crimea the same way his father did... perhaps to learn more about his ancestor? Man, I never even considered this before. But now I kind of want to write it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Legally adopted children are considered lineal descendants. Considered by whom? Adopted children descend from their biological bloodline. Edited February 10, 2015 by Radiant head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Sorry to drag this up again, but I really liked this post and I wanted to respond to it, because you make some interesting points. I feel like Elincia is too bound by duty to consider abdicating the throne to anyone, regardless of how much she loved them. She was willing to let Lucia die, after all. I reiterate: Lucia -- her dear friend, who she grew up with as a sister (putting aside shipping subtext for the time being, because I know this is a popular ship). Elincia puts her people and her nation first, so I just can't see her abandoning all of that for Ike. Or Geoffrey. Or Lucia. Or anyone else people ship her with. You make an interesting point with Renning though. But it seems the two of them agree he will not take the throne, and he supports Elincia being Queen in the epilogue, so I don't see that happening either. Although I admit it is a possibility, however slight. All that being said... I don't actually mind the idea of Priam being descended from her and Ike! I like the one-night stand idea for this in particular. Perhaps shortly before Ike left Tellius, he and Elincia had some sort of tryst? Perhaps she carried Ike's child in secret? Now, assuming Priam is Ike's son and not separated by a few generations -- or even if he is, now that I think of it -- maybe he left Crimea the same way his father did... perhaps to learn more about his ancestor? Man, I never even considered this before. But now I kind of want to write it. It's okay, I'm glad to see SOMEONE understanding the points I made there, so yeah. :) I'm not sure if Elincia really made that decision to let Lucia die though. Yeah, she didn't do anything to stop it, but... Lucia also yelled that she was willing to die and I just feel that Elincia may have felt that no matter what she did, things would get worse. Geoffrey even offers to intervene, and I've no doubt he would've been able to save Lucia. She's his sister and probably the only family he has left other than Elincia who was his foster sibling. But Elincia doesn't let him. She doesn't seem like she wants to choose anything here really. She just luckily got her butt saved when Ike's group showed up. It's all up to interpretation though, I suppose. I'm not sure I like the idea of Elincia getting pregnant from Ike in secret and keeping the baby, but I do theorize that they may have had a secret relationship that wasn't known to anyone except for the mercenaries and maybe Geoffrey, Lucia, and Bastian. The details on it are kind of expansive, so I'll save people here a long ass post. Still, Priam being Ike and Elincia's descendant works for me pretty much no matter what. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Considered by whom? Adopted children descend from their biological bloodline. They are for legal purposes in the real world. Fire Emblem may take place in a fictional medieval-esque world, but it's created by people who follow and are inspired by real world laws. An adoption does not negate a descendant; in fact, a lot of people adopt because it's the only way for them to keep the family line (since they can't naturally have children). I mean, people say that the only way for Priam to inherit Ike's skills is through blood. Why is that? Couldn't Ike simply have taught someone to learn those skills? Ike didn't inherit Aether from Greil. Heck, Aether is not even Ike-exclusive anymore. The point I'm making is that being a blood descendant or being adopted changes nothing in this context. It's perfectly possible for Ike to have adopted and for Priam to still be considered his descendant. It doesn't have to be a blood thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Well, some people theorize that at some point, someone in Ike's line got with someone in Marth's line and that's how Aether got into Chrom's family. Although I think that if Chrom was descended from both Ike and Marth, it would've been mentioned. Edited February 10, 2015 by Anacybele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) They are for legal purposes in the real world. Fire Emblem may take place in a fictional medieval-esque world, but it's created by people who follow and are inspired by real world laws. An adoption does not negate a descendant; in fact, a lot of people adopt because it's the only way for them to keep the family line (since they can't naturally have children). Fire Emblem might be inspired my the real world, but hardly everything in the real world is relevant to FE's world. There are no legal documents like birth certificates in FE's world or hell even last names that indicate linage, so things like ancestry and descendant(ry?) are only relevant in the sense of bloodline. Or else with this logic, everyone Greil put a roof over like Soren and Rolf is descended from him Edited February 10, 2015 by Radiant head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankai Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) It's okay, I'm glad to see SOMEONE understanding the points I made there, so yeah. :) I'm not sure if Elincia really made that decision to let Lucia die though. Yeah, she didn't do anything to stop it, but... Lucia also yelled that she was willing to die and I just feel that Elincia may have felt that no matter what she did, things would get worse. Geoffrey even offers to intervene, and I've no doubt he would've been able to save Lucia. She's his sister and probably the only family he has left other than Elincia who was his foster sibling. But Elincia doesn't let him. She doesn't seem like she wants to choose anything here really. She just luckily got her butt saved when Ike's group showed up. It's all up to interpretation though, I suppose. I'm not sure I like the idea of Elincia getting pregnant from Ike in secret and keeping the baby, but I do theorize that they may have had a secret relationship that wasn't known to anyone except for the mercenaries and maybe Geoffrey, Lucia, and Bastian. The details on it are kind of expansive, so I'll save people here a long ass post. Still, Priam being Ike and Elincia's descendant works for me pretty much no matter what. :P Even though you hate the pairing that theory could also lead to why Geoffrey and Elincia get married I believe in the middle ages having a child out of wedlock was frowned upon instead of it being a scandal they got married to preserve her honer. The child was told who his/her real father was and somewhere along the line a descendant went to find Ike. Edited February 10, 2015 by Bankai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I think there were documents of some sort. Otherwise, we wouldn't know about when certain monarchs and famous people in the past were born. You'll find birth dates for a lot of people from centuries ago in textbooks these days. EDIT: Oh, I actually do think Geoffrey and Elincia married for political reasons. Elincia may not have decided to find Ike until later (my headcanon actually has her not leaving for about another year) and knew that if the royal line was to continue, she would need a husband to have a child with. She just ends up departing before the child part could actually happen. Edited February 10, 2015 by Anacybele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Nobles and royalty would be the exception, I would think. I doubt the line of commoners are thoroughly documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timehopper Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I'm not sure if Elincia really made that decision to let Lucia die though. Yeah, she didn't do anything to stop it, but... Lucia also yelled that she was willing to die and I just feel that Elincia may have felt that no matter what she did, things would get worse. Geoffrey even offers to intervene, and I've no doubt he would've been able to save Lucia. She's his sister and probably the only family he has left other than Elincia who was his foster sibling. But Elincia doesn't let him. She doesn't seem like she wants to choose anything here really. She just luckily got her butt saved when Ike's group showed up. I think it's pretty implied she made the decision to let Lucia die instead of having the civil war continue/abdicating. She clearly didn't want to choose, you're right, but the thing that matters here is that she did. And yeah, you're totally right that she was lucky Ike and co. showed up when they did! copy and pasted from the wiki, to hopefully show what I mean when I say she did choose: Ludveck: Hello, Your Majesty... By the look on your face, I can see my plan has been a success. Elincia: ...What exactly is it that you want? To throw our country into chaos? Ludveck: No. I want to protect it, Your Majesty. Elincia: What?! Ludveck: Queen Elincia, you're so naïve. Cold and callous decisions are sometimes required of a nation's ruler. ...I was testing you. We all wanted to know if our queen would have the power to stop a civil war. But, no, you were too hesitant and too concerned about harming the people... Now look what has happened. The rule of Crimea cannot be kept in your hands! Please, Your Majesty! You must abdicate and cede the crown to me! And considering Lady Lucia's life is on the line, you haven't much choice. Now, let's have you free me from this prison cell, and then we can discuss any further details... Elincia: I don't think so. Ludveck: What?! Are you truly willing to sacrifice Lady Lucia?! Elincia: ...Lord Ludveck, all your dissatisfaction and misgivings about me are well founded. However, do you realize how many lives you've simply thrown away?! Strength without compassion does not a ruler make. You care nothing for the people, sir. You cloak your desire to rule with pretty speeches, but it is petty avarice nonetheless! Ludveck: ...So this is how it shall be? Very well... But Lady Lucia cannot be spared without my order. Elincia: Allowing you to plant the seeds of rebellion and play havoc with the lives of my people is a failure for which I must answer. But I will see Crimea through this trial. I will give my people the future they deserve, no matter the cost. Ludveck: ...Ha... Ha ha ha ha! Well played, Your Majesty! Indeed, I have failed. Yet I wonder... Are you capable of watching Lucia die? Or will you crawl back to me, your face awash with tears, begging for mercy? How I pray to see that face, Your Majesty! Elincia: Rebel soldiers, hear me! Ludveck of Felirae, having conspired against the nation, will stand trial. As the queen and ruler of Crimea, I refuse to negotiate with those bent on destroying it. Crimean Rebel: ...So you're going to let this girl die?! Lucia: Hah! Elincia: I will be strong, Lucia... Crimean Rebel: Tch... Kick, scream, beg... Give us a show, wench! Crimean Rebel: Your Highness! Your trusted friend will now die. Let this burn forever in your memory! Lucia: People of Crimea... Behold a true queen! YOUR queen! Long live Queen Elincia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Nobles and royalty would be the exception, I would think. I doubt the line of commoners are thoroughly documented. Actually there were some instances of this occuring. William the Conqueror came from Normandy and successfully invaded Britain and in his conquest he had people document where people lived, their names, possesions, occupation, and even birth dates so that they could establish a form of taxation and tribute. This was known as the Doomsday book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The Part 2 ending loses so much meaning if Elincia didn't actually make the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Micaiah, just to be different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Fire Emblem might be inspired my the real world, but hardly everything in the real world is relevant to FE's world. There are no legal documents like birth certificates in FE's world or hell even last names that indicate linage, so things like ancestry and descendant(ry?) are only relevant in the sense of bloodline. Or else with this logic, everyone Greil put a roof over like Soren and Rolf is descended from him But if there are no legal documents, how can you prove bloodline? Once again, whether it's a blood descendant or an adopted descendant is completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 It doesn't have to be proven because that's what Nintendo tells us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphi Sage Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I actually do think Geoffrey and Elincia married for political reasons. Elincia may not have decided to find Ike until later (my headcanon actually has her not leaving for about another year) and knew that if the royal line was to continue, she would need a husband to have a child with. She just ends up departing before the child part could actually happen.Whoa. You're actually thinking that of Elincia?Wait a minute.... Oh my god. You haven't changed in 5 years, miss. No wonder you have that link on TVTropes. Edited February 10, 2015 by dalphage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Nobody has said Sothe yet? Micaiah even said it was canon, so there! @Jave: If inheritance works in all games like it does in FE4 it should be fairly easy. Of course, it's less clear-cut with no holy blood involved... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) It doesn't have to be proven because that's what Nintendo tells us. The game never tells us that Priam is a blood descendant of Ike. In fact, Priam introduces himself as an "hypothetical descendant". @Baldrick I am aware of the inheritance system in FE4, but all I'm saying is that it doesn't negate the possibility of Ike adopting a child. But if we ARE going to take the FE4 system as gospel, then it does support the adoption theory as Priam doesn't actually have Aether (he has Luna and Sol). Edited February 10, 2015 by Jave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) The game tells us he's a scion of Ike. I mean you can interpret that as an adopted descendant, but I've already said enough on why that doesn't make sense to me. Edited February 10, 2015 by Radiant head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphi Sage Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) It doesn't have to be proven because that's what Nintendo tells us.Nintendo also told us that every last one of the 2D Zeldas all exist in a timeline where Ganon kills Link at the end of OOT. FE13 itself goes one step further and obliterates Archanea's world, putting a divine mountain on top of all Talys and claiming rabbit laguz existed during the events of FE3. I think it's an appropriate enough time to invoke Death of the Author. Edited February 10, 2015 by dalphage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ownagepuffs Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Scion is kind of the key word here, methinks. Descendant is debatable but the word scion is somewhat hard to argue against. But like I think it's funny that they give Priam blue hair, "Aether", a love for meat, the hero class, a green bandanna, call him a scion of Ike, and make his map theme a remix of Ike's theme and yet some would still say he's from an adopted bloodline/Mist's descendant. A lot of it comes off as grasping. I'm neutral either way (Ike/Ranulf ftw) so this is just a 3rd party POV. I still doubt that Priam is even canon, given how much of a mess Awakening's world is. Edited February 10, 2015 by Ownagepuffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Nintendo also told us that every last one of the 2D Zeldas all exist in a timeline where Ganon kills Link at the end of OOT. FE13 itself goes one step further and obliterates Archanea's world, putting a divine mountain on top of all Talys and claiming rabbit laguz existed during the events of FE3. I think it's an appropriate enough time to invoke Death of the Author. I feel like fanboys will abuse invoking Death of the Author any time the story doesn't agree with a fanbase's headcanon, so I'd rather not. Edited February 10, 2015 by Radiant head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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