Who could Ike's wife be?

[Delphi Sage]

I feel like fanboys will abuse invoking Death of the Author any time the story doesn't agree with a fanbase's headcanon, so I'd rather not.

Okay then. Not judging you.

Though personally, I invoke it when I just hear something outright ridiculous. For example, that above point with Zelda. It just offends me that the less technologically impressive games are all part of a kind of impossible and unforseeable outcome of OOT. It feels like the Zelda series retroactively making every game made before Ocarina of Time never existed and using that newly ripped plot hole as a dumpster.

Or a more personal gripe of mine, FE10 claiming Zelgius is stronger than Ashnard.

Edited February 10, 2015 by dalphage

[The Geek]

Nobody has said Sothe yet? Micaiah even said it was canon, so there!

Damn, how could I have forgotten? Thread's over guys.

[Anacybele]

But if we ARE going to take the FE4 system as gospel, then it does support the adoption theory as Priam doesn't actually have Aether (he has Luna and Sol).

I think the reason Priam doesn't have Aether is gameplay reasons. Storywise, I actually like to think that he actually does have Aether or is working on mastering it. If Priam had Aether, male Morgan could get it from him instead of Chrom while female Morgan could only get it from Lucina, which is a bit unbalanced. And it wouldn't be a lord-exclusive skill like IS seems to want it.

I think it's pretty implied she made the decision to let Lucia die instead of having the civil war continue/abdicating. She clearly didn't want to choose, you're right, but the thing that matters here is that she did. And yeah, you're totally right that she was lucky Ike and co. showed up when they did!

copy and pasted from the wiki, to hopefully show what I mean when I say she did choose:

Ludveck: Hello, Your Majesty... By the look on your face, I can see my plan has been a success.

Elincia: ...What exactly is it that you want? To throw our country into chaos?

Ludveck: No. I want to protect it, Your Majesty.

Elincia: What?!

Ludveck: Queen Elincia, you're so naïve. Cold and callous decisions are sometimes required of a nation's ruler. ...I was testing you. We all wanted to know if our queen would have the power to stop a civil war. But, no, you were too hesitant and too concerned about harming the people... Now look what has happened. The rule of Crimea cannot be kept in your hands! Please, Your Majesty! You must abdicate and cede the crown to me! And considering Lady Lucia's life is on the line, you haven't much choice. Now, let's have you free me from this prison cell, and then we can discuss any further details...

Elincia: I don't think so.

Ludveck: What?! Are you truly willing to sacrifice Lady Lucia?!

Elincia: ...Lord Ludveck, all your dissatisfaction and misgivings about me are well founded. However, do you realize how many lives you've simply thrown away?! Strength without compassion does not a ruler make. You care nothing for the people, sir. You cloak your desire to rule with pretty speeches, but it is petty avarice nonetheless!

Ludveck: ...So this is how it shall be? Very well... But Lady Lucia cannot be spared without my order.

Elincia: Allowing you to plant the seeds of rebellion and play havoc with the lives of my people is a failure for which I must answer. But I will see Crimea through this trial. I will give my people the future they deserve, no matter the cost.

Ludveck: ...Ha... Ha ha ha ha! Well played, Your Majesty! Indeed, I have failed. Yet I wonder... Are you capable of watching Lucia die? Or will you crawl back to me, your face awash with tears, begging for mercy? How I pray to see that face, Your Majesty!

Elincia: Rebel soldiers, hear me! Ludveck of Felirae, having conspired against the nation, will stand trial. As the queen and ruler of Crimea, I refuse to negotiate with those bent on destroying it.

Crimean Rebel: ...So you're going to let this girl die?!

Lucia: Hah!

Elincia: I will be strong, Lucia...

Crimean Rebel: Tch... Kick, scream, beg... Give us a show, wench!

Crimean Rebel: Your Highness! Your trusted friend will now die. Let this burn forever in your memory!

Lucia: People of Crimea... Behold a true queen! YOUR queen! Long live Queen Elincia!

Yes, I do remember this conversation pretty well. But the bold is what always made me feel like Elincia was so conflicted here that the decision was more or less made for her rather than by herself. I feel like Ludveck might have been right that she would eventually "go crawling back to him" as he says. I don't want to paint Elincia as a weak person, but like she said, Ludveck's dissatisfaction and all is well-founded and she and Lucia are very close. Like Ike and Soren close.

But yeah, interpretations again. xP

Edited February 10, 2015 by Anacybele

[Irysa]

Nintendo also told us that every last one of the 2D Zeldas all exist in a timeline where Ganon kills Link at the end of OOT.

FE13 itself goes one step further and obliterates Archanea's world, putting a divine mountain on top of all Talys and claiming rabbit laguz existed during the events of FE3.

I think it's an appropriate enough time to invoke Death of the Author.

hear hear

Although we don't even need to get into FE13 to recognise the complete lack of respect IS has for its own established canon because FE12 demonstrates it perfectly.

[Luchi]

Not this again...

[timehopper]

Yes, I do remember this conversation pretty well. But the bold is what always made me feel like Elincia was so conflicted here that the decision was more or less made for her rather than by herself. I feel like Ludveck might have been right that she would eventually "go crawling back to him" as he says. I don't want to paint Elincia as a weak person, but like she said, Ludveck's dissatisfaction and all is well-founded and she and Lucia are very close. Like Ike and Soren close.

But yeah, interpretations again. xP

... Huh? There is absolutely nothing there that implies Elincia would even possibly go crawling back to him. She firmly states that she'll stick to her guns and get Crimea through this rough spot (for lack of a better term) that she, at least in part, helped to cause. The decision wasn't made for her: she had very clear options. She could have given in to Ludveck and been the weaker person, but she didn't and wasn't. Had it been possible from her perspective, she would have both saved Lucia and ended the civil war as queen. But as far as she knew that was impossible, so she made a firm choice. She stood firm and put her duty to her country above her own personal feelings. She always has.

(and to address this before it's brought up as a counterargument: yes, she wanted to strip Geoffrey of his rank and title in PoR, but there's a significant difference there: protecting him wouldn't have put the rest of Crimea -- or even just the army -- at risk, it would have eased her and protected Geoffrey. To summarize: Her friends and family come second only to her duties as a ruler.)

I don't know. I just... I feel like there isn't anything else you can interpret from those conversations? Not without seriously injuring all of Elincia's character development.

[Luchi]

^ That. So much. Thank you, timehopper.

[Junkhead]

Or a more personal gripe of mine, FE10 claiming Zelgius is stronger than Ashnard.

Did the game actually say/imply that? I'm really curious. Ashnard said he was interested in seeing how would a match against them go about. I wouldn't be surprised if he were stronger, or vice-versa.

[Magical Glace]

When was Marth and the Anri thing retconned? I remembered it from FE11 as well Nyna explaining Artemis' Curse. It's even in this SF page.

I believe it wasn't existent until the DS era at the earliest.

I think the reason Priam doesn't have Aether is gameplay reasons. Storywise, I actually like to think that he actually does have Aether or is working on mastering it. If Priam had Aether, male Morgan could get it from him instead of Chrom while female Morgan could only get it from Lucina, which is a bit unbalanced. And it wouldn't be a lord-exclusive skill like IS seems to want it.

Only female children of Chrom's get Aether. Males, Morgan included, get Rightful King instead.

That said, if Priam had Aether, max Aether potential is Chrom, Lucina, Cynthia/Kjelle, FMorgan, 2Ikes, and him. 7. Aether overkill... maybe?

[Baldrick]

I don't know. I just... I feel like there isn't anything else you can interpret from those conversations? Not without seriously injuring all of Elincia's character development.

Welcome to Serenes Forest, I hope you enjoy your stay!

You're right, it's fairly clear cut. Elincia is kind enough to spell it out after the fact:

Lucia, Geoffrey... I value your lives more than even my own. But it's my duty to protect this country, even if that means losing you.

She would watch her closest friend die for the sake of her country. What could possibly cause her to leave it all behind? To get laid? Anybody with any appreciation for Elincia as a character would agree that would be horrible.

[Delphi Sage]

Did the game actually say/imply that? I'm really curious. Ashnard said he was interested in seeing how would a match against them go about. I wouldn't be surprised if he were stronger, or vice-versa.

According to a source I can't find at present, the Japanese script of 3-3 has Janaff say that Zelgius was "a notch above Mad King Ashnard".

[Anacybele]

She would watch her closest friend die for the sake of her country. What could possibly cause her to leave it all behind? To get laid? Anybody with any appreciation for Elincia as a character would agree that would be horrible.

I appreciate Elincia. And yeah, her leaving simply to "get laid" would be horrible. But nobody is saying that she should do that.

Only female children of Chrom's get Aether. Males, Morgan included, get Rightful King instead.

That said, if Priam had Aether, max Aether potential is Chrom, Lucina, Cynthia/Kjelle, FMorgan, 2Ikes, and him. 7. Aether overkill... maybe?

You're right, I said that all wrong. >_<

I meant to say that male Morgan would have access to either Aether OR Rightful King while female Morgan can only get Aether out of the two. And yes, Aether overkill there. :P

... Huh? There is absolutely nothing there that implies Elincia would even possibly go crawling back to him. She firmly states that she'll stick to her guns and get Crimea through this rough spot (for lack of a better term) that she, at least in part, helped to cause. The decision wasn't made for her: she had very clear options. She could have given in to Ludveck and been the weaker person, but she didn't and wasn't. Had it been possible from her perspective, she would have both saved Lucia and ended the civil war as queen. But as far as she knew that was impossible, so she made a firm choice. She stood firm and put her duty to her country above her own personal feelings. She always has.

(and to address this before it's brought up as a counterargument: yes, she wanted to strip Geoffrey of his rank and title in PoR, but there's a significant difference there: protecting him wouldn't have put the rest of Crimea -- or even just the army -- at risk, it would have eased her and protected Geoffrey. To summarize: Her friends and family come second only to her duties as a ruler.)

I don't know. I just... I feel like there isn't anything else you can interpret from those conversations? Not without seriously injuring all of Elincia's character development.

Yeah, Elincia had two options, both of which she most definitely hated. Sacrificing the closest thing she has to a sister or handing over Crimea's throne to an idiot that started a rebellion. That is hardly an easy decision to make, especially for someone like her. I just can't see her having decided on her own so easily.

And no, there isn't anything else. I also don't understand how anything I'm saying is injuring her character development and I probably won't ever understand.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Anacybele

[Radiant head]

Never mind

Edited February 11, 2015 by Radiant head

[Chloe Neo]

He would probably end up with mia no legitimate reason just favouritism and the fact those two would be a great couple plus no more elincia, Yes !

[Delphi Sage]

I appreciate Elincia. And yeah, her leaving simply to "get laid" would be horrible. But nobody is saying that she should do that.

Um, aren't YOU saying that she'd leave Crimea for Ike?

[Anacybele]

Um, aren't YOU saying that she'd leave Crimea for Ike?

That's one part of it. But so what? Nowhere did I say she would leave just to have sex with him. There's a huge difference between "leaving to have sex" and "leaving because she feels she is not what's best for Crimea and she deeply misses the man she loves."

Hell, I could've decided to just write them getting married and that's it. No sex or kids. I just gave them kids because I think they would raise a lovely family and I like the idea of continuing the story using said children.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Anacybele

[Just call me AL]

I feel like Elincia is too bound by duty to consider abdicating the throne to anyone, regardless of how much she loved them. She was willing to let Lucia die, after all. I reiterate: Lucia -- her dear friend, who she grew up with as a sister (putting aside shipping subtext for the time being, because I know this is a popular ship). Elincia puts her people and her nation first, so I just can't see her abandoning all of that for Ike. Or Geoffrey. Or Lucia. Or anyone else people ship her with.

Just a little bit of a nitpick, but I don't see how she'd be abandoning anything in choosing to go forward with something like marrying Geoffrey. Ike, okay. I could see where that's coming from. But I'm certain Geoffrey would become Crimea's King following his own marriage to Elincia.

[Delphi Sage]

But so what? Nowhere did I say she would leave just to have sex with him. There's a huge difference between "leaving to have sex" and "leaving because she feels she is not what's best for Crimea and she deeply misses the man she loves."

You're twisting the words. I did not specify that she left to have sex. I said that you claimed she would leave her country for her love of a man who sees himself as just amercenary hired to be her bodyguard.

Hell, I could've decided to just write them getting married and that's it. No sex or kids. I just gave them kids because I think they would raise a lovely family and I like the idea of continuing the story using said children.

Not even the worst of fluff writers would have a queen abandon her country for her teenage crush and say they never even had sex. You're praising yourself for not driving into a ditch. That's like the "Participation Award" of fanfiction.

What your headcanon does is unintentionally bring up parallels to Akaneia's Ogma/Caeda and Nyna/Hardin relationships, and they don't look too favorable towards you.

[Anacybele]

Just a little bit of a nitpick, but I don't see how she'd be abandoning anything in choosing to go forward with something like marrying Geoffrey. Ike, okay. I could see where that's coming from. But I'm certain Geoffrey would become Crimea's King following his own marriage to Elincia.

Not necessarily. In real life medieval times, men who married queens didn't actually become kings. They became something called prince consorts instead. And besides, if Geoffrey DID become king when he married Elincia, his ending would've probably said so.

And I still think that the only thing Elnicia would be abandoning by marrying Ike is her royal lifestyle. Nothing says she can't still keep in touch with her friends by writing and nothing says she can't go visit sometimes or go fight for Crimea when the nation has some trouble. Nothing says she has to stop caring for her country if she gives up her throne and marries someone else.

You're twisting the words.

No, I'm not.

What your headcanon does is unintentionally bring up parallels to Akaneia's Ogma/Caeda and Nyna/Hardin relationships, and they don't look too favorable towards you.

lolwut? I don't even know anything about those relationships since I barely played any of Shadow Dragon. I can't possibly be making any parallels to them.

Also, to support my argument that the idea of Elincia handing her throne to Renning because she feels he would protect Crimea better than she would and then find Ike and marry him is not unrealistic or OOC, I want to bring up an example of this very thing occurring with another princess and her father figure in a popular TV show. That TV show is Teen Titans. Starfire is the princess of the planet Tamaran. She falls in love with Robin. Her older sister (Ludveck's equivalent in this case), Blackfire, takes the throne and threatens to do some pretty nasty shit unless Starfire returns home and marries this ugly alien. But Robin convinces her to fight and take back the throne, much like Ike convinces Elincia to do the same. Starfire finally does, and succeeds. She grows stronger as a result. But then she tells her people that while Blackfire was not the best thing for Tamaran, Starfire herself isn't what's best either. So Starfire gives the throne to her father figure and returns to Earth with the Teen Titans. She and Robin later become a canon couple. Nobody ever complained about this.

My idea for Ike x Elincia happens in a very similar way.

[Radiant head]

So it's not OOC because of something that happened in a completely unrelated show?

[Anacybele]

No, it's not OOC because people are perfectly fine with something very similar happening in a TV show. And because the writers of said TV show felt it was fine. It's fine to me too.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Anacybele

[Radiant head]

With completely different characters and completely different universe/context.

I dunno, it just sounds like you're grasping at straws here.

[Anacybele]

That's completely beside the point. The situations are still extremely similar.

That is all. I'm done with this. I said before that I was tired of people bashing my headcanons and theories, and I am. I won't be saying anything more on the subject.

[Radiant head]

Doesn't matter. What's in-character for Starfire isn't in-character for Elincia. All your example does is illustrate your headcanon theory via analogy, but it doesn't make it less nonsensical.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Radiant head

[Anacybele]

Yes, it does matter. Starfire's personality may not be exactly the same as Elincia's, but she loves her planet just as much as Elincia loves her country. Starfire was positively willing to marry this ugly alien (and believe me, this alien was VERY ugly) just to protect her planet and she would have to give up her life with the Teen Titans in the process.

So my headcanon theory is NOT nonsensical. Now as I said, this debate is over.