Should Casual Return?

[Topazd]

Yeah, perhaps a poor choice of word on my part.

[ErrantDShepherd]

...anyways, seeing as the discussion over whether or not casual should be removed (unlikely) or changed seems to be going in circles/died out...

Curious what sort of incentives people would like to see/suggest for the classic mode, like extra story/dialogue as people have mentioned... Or perhaps a true/good ending or extra/bonus/special characters?

...what do you guys think? I personally prefer classic anyways, but I think extra content/unlockables are always good. Also a way to incentivize newcomers to do classic mode aside from, "well... That's how its MEANT to be played!" which may be true, but gives no actual in-game reward for playing Classic over Casual.

[feplus]

The simplest way to incentivize a Classic Mode playthrough is additional content. Maybe the "good ending" path is locked a la Binding Blade; maybe Classic rewards the player with exclusive postgame characters.

But what I'd really like to see is a Fire Emblem that takes unit death seriously. Most titles in the series have scenes and bits of dialogue you only get when characters are alive, but I'd also like to see scenes and bits of dialogue you only get when characters are deceased. Let's say two characters get up to an A support, and one of them dies in battle -- wouldn't it be touching to have a brief scene where the surviving character muses on how this loss affects him or her? Or let's say a plot-important character dies off; rather than having them become "wounded," wouldn't it be neat if their death carried plot significance? Intelligent Systems could also take a quasi-Shadow Dragon approach and leave certain gaidens locked unless a particular character or characters have passed on. FEif is all about player choice, right? And tragic choices are interesting.

This would encourage even the newest of players to give Classic a whirl.

Edited February 14, 2015 by feplus

[Magical Glace]

The simplest way to incentivize a Classic Mode playthrough is additional content. Maybe the "good ending" path is locked a la Binding Blade; maybe Classic rewards the player with exclusive postgame characters.

But what I'd really like to see is a Fire Emblem that takes unit death seriously. Most titles in the series have scenes and bits of dialogue you only get when characters are alive, but I'd also like to see scenes and bits of dialogue you only get when characters are deceased. Let's say two characters get up to an A support, and one of them dies in battle -- wouldn't it be touching to have a brief scene where the surviving character muses on how this loss affects him or her? Or let's say a plot-important character dies off; rather than having them become "wounded," wouldn't it be neat if their death carried plot significance? Intelligent Systems could also take a quasi-Shadow Dragon approach and leave certain gaidens locked unless a particular character or characters have passed on. FEif is all about player choice, right? And tragic choices are interesting.

This would encourage even the newest of players to give Classic a whirl.

There was a base convo in FE10 that can only be viewed if Calil died.

Of course, there are alternate versions if she is alive and in the hawk army and alive but in the Griel or Silver army.

[Topazd]

FE4 probably utilized that to the greatest extent yet. The ending could change moderately, depending on (other than the pairings you did) the survival of your characters. The ending to FE11 also saw a slight change if Caeda died, but yeah, the series in general could benefit from a lot more of such.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Topazd255

[Nébulya]

Yes. I'll play classic as usual, but this mode can be good for young people. (I started at 7/8 years with Fire Emblem, and when you loose one character (Oswin) at the final chapter, it's..well..:d)

Or make it unlockable. For me, all options of every game should stay, but with improvement. (some exception, obviously)

[shadowofchaos]

Anyway, did you get the chance to watch those videos? They offer another perspective on your stance (though it's not explicitly FE-related, except for that one excerpt about Awakening that's a tangent at best).

I actually watch extra credits on a semi-regular basis. My comments on them long ago are probably buried in the comments section, haha.

[Magical Glace]

Or make it unlockable. For me, all options of every game should stay, but with improvement. (some exception, obviously)

Making Casual unlockable completely destroys the point of the mode.

And you'd have many angry vets if Classic was unlockable

[Gradivus.]

Making Casual unlockable is an okay idea I think because newbies that get attracted by the idea of circumventing perma-death have to unlock it, and a good amount of them will be likely to keep playing Classic because they realize that it's a fine mode (the opposite of which I considered my main issue with CAS). Removing permadeath at all still isn't a very good idea, but there's little way to convince those who keep seconding it.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Haha, I get pretty emotionally invested to this topic, so apologies to anyone who felt that I came across as an asshole.

Im not. I dont think it is at all fair for anyone to tell another person how to play a game due to the variety of options there are to play said game. No one likes a Stop Having Fun Guy. No one. (except the Stop Having Fun Guy.)

I think theres enough incentive to play Classic mode already because you can unlock a whole new mode once you play Lunatic/Classic. Thats a tricky mode, man. You get a pretty swag prize of BALL CRUSHER MODE if you do it. So maybe in the future, they can include even more fun stuff to unlock after playing Classic mode. (id rather they not gimp the story to create incentive. More gameplay goodies is the best option.)

[Sentacotus]

So maybe in the future, they can include even more fun stuff to unlock after playing Classic mode. (id rather they not gimp the story to create incentive. More gameplay goodies is the best option.)

Now this I can get on board with. Kind of like Halo 3 and 4's Legendary endings maybe reveal a little extra or even add a level past the main game like a bonus or something kind of like Chrono Trigger DS's boss battle with the uber powerful Dimensional Lavos which at the end gave you an ultra powerful blade and hinted at the next game.

[Florete]

I think theres enough incentive to play Classic mode already because you can unlock a whole new mode once you play Lunatic/Classic

Yeah, a...nother classic mode. How is more Classic an incentive to play Classic?

[Star and Moon]

What if there was a mode that made it so story important characters didn't die/become unusable but unimportant characters did? I would really like that, actually.

I haven't played much of FE: Path of Radience but it really bugged me when Soren was no longer able to fight yet still participated in cut scenes.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Star and Moon

[Thunderfox]

Wheres the "I don't care" Option?

[Florete]

Wheres the "I don't care" Option?

That's the invisible "don't post" option, because if you don't care, why are you posting?

[Sentacotus]

What if there was a mode that made it so story important characters didn't die/become unusable but unimportant characters did? I would really like that, actually.

I haven't played much of FE: Path of Radience but it really bugged me when Soren was no longer able to fight yet still participated in cut scenes.

See I don't know how I feel about that I mean sure gotta maintain story continuity and all but you're saying you were injured so bad with all your limbs intact that you were put out of battle for the rest of the story? But yet you're still able to ride a horse, walk around, be confrontational, transform and all this other stuff etc? Sure if you play classic you got to have a way to knock em out gameplay wise while still having them in the story where they are needed.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Yeah, a...nother classic mode. How is more Classic an incentive to play Classic?

Wut. You unlocked Lunatic+ mode when you play L/Classic. Lunatic+ can be played on either setting. Im not sure what you are saying here.

Now this I can get on board with. Kind of like Halo 3 and 4's Legendary endings maybe reveal a little extra or even add a level past the main game like a bonus or something kind of like Chrono Trigger DS's boss battle with the uber powerful Dimensional Lavos which at the end gave you an ultra powerful blade and hinted at the next game.

Yeah! I like the idea of extra maps or something like that, that could only be unlocked by completing Classic. An Apotheosis-like map, or something really neat like that. Or maybe a special unlockable unit. Like say our good buddy Maximilian (or Hot Paladin) isnt recruitable during Casual mode. But you CAN get him on Classic mode. Something like that.

[feplus]

Lunatic+ Casual is also unlocked by beating Lunatic Casual. Red's point is that playing Classic to unlock more Classic isn't much incentive.

Edited February 15, 2015 by feplus

[Gradivus.]

I can imagine something across the lines of "Congratulations on beating *insert difficulty* Casual! Play Classic Mode unlock another ending!" with the CAS ending being after like, Chapter 22 and the CLA ending being after a chapter called Final, which is several maps later, as an explicite incentive to play CLA mode. It has been pointed out pretty often that CLA mode should be viewed as the real way FE works, and even if there is a different option, the game should directly encourage players to play CLA.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Lunatic+ Casual is also unlocked by beating Lunatic Casual. Red's point is that playing Classic to unlock more Classic isn't much incentive.

Hmm.. I thought L+ itself was only unlocked after beating Lunatic/Classic. My bad.

I can imagine something across the lines of "Congratulations on beating *insert difficulty* Casual! Play Classic Mode unlock another ending!" with the CAS ending being after like, Chapter 22 and the CLA ending being after a chapter called Final, which is several maps later, as an explicite incentive to play CLA mode.

That would be ok, cuz playing a Normal/Classic wouldnt be too hard for even new players. The reason FE6 pissed me off is that it gimps the story for not meeting some requirements you dont get a WHOLE lot of information about. (like turn count) So doing that just with a mode wouldnt be so bad.

[Vanilluxe]

Edited July 15, 2015 by Vanilluxe

[NinjaMonkey]

I can imagine something across the lines of "Congratulations on beating *insert difficulty* Casual! Play Classic Mode unlock another ending!" with the CAS ending being after like, Chapter 22 and the CLA ending being after a chapter called Final, which is several maps later, as an explicite incentive to play CLA mode.

More like a "Fuck you" to the player.

even if there is a different option, the game should directly encourage players to play CLA.

No, it shouldn't.

Edited February 15, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Jedi]

I can imagine something across the lines of "Congratulations on beating *insert difficulty* Casual! Play Classic Mode unlock another ending!" with the CAS ending being after like, Chapter 22 and the CLA ending being after a chapter called Final, which is several maps later, as an explicite incentive to play CLA mode. It has been pointed out pretty often that CLA mode should be viewed as the real way FE works, and even if there is a different option, the game should directly encourage players to play CLA.

This reminds me of older games that would artificially tell you to "Play on the higher difficulty chump" like Streets of Rage 3

[Gradivus.]

I did give a reason why it should incentivize CLA mode. In more detail, CLA mode was practically the only possible way to play the first 11 (!) or 13 games in the series. More fitting and that stuff. FE isn't just some game, it's FE. It doesn't even have to be similar to other games and the devs were generous by deciding to include CAS at all. Why do you think CLA should not be incentivized? (besides, CAS as a reason to start playing FE with and exclusively play Awakening is player-side bias and marketing reasons)

Beating Classic, when compared to CAS, isn't a higher difficulty or an achievement of any degree either. You can't be as lazy wrt where you throw your units into the mess, but that's it. Increasing the strategic thought involved in FE.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Gradivus.

[GrySun]

Just admit it, most of u pro-classic people. You are just annoyed for no reason at all. Others having fun in casual, others in classic. You are not impacted in any way. I really really don't understand all the butthurting. For example the posts of Gradivus, reread multiple times and still can't understand it. Oh well...