FE6 HM LTC V1 - Completed in 133 Turns

[Irysa]

Video Playlist

[spoiler=Chapters]

Chapter 1

Chapter 2

Chapter 3

Chapter 4

Chapter 5

Chapter 6

Chapter 7

Chapter 8

Chapter 8x

Chapter 9

Chapters 8, 8x, 9 v2

Chapter 10

Chapter 11

Chapter 12

Chapter 12x

Chapter 13

Chapters 14, 14x

Chapter 15

Chapter 16 (includes commentary)

Chapter 16x

Chapter 17

Chapter 18

Chapter 19

Chapter 20

Chapter 20x

Chapter 21

Chapters 21x, 22

Chapters 23, 24 and Final + Epilogue

[spoiler=Turns/Staff uses]

01   -  4 turns
02   -  5 turns
03   -  5 turns
04   -  7 turns
05   -  3 turns
06   -  7 turns
07   -  4 turns
08   - 13 turns
08x  -  5 turns
09   -  5 turns
10L  -  7 turns
11L  -  9 turns
12   -  8 turns
12x  -  4 turns
13   -  5 turns
14   -  3 turns
14x  -  1 turn 2 warp
15   -  4 turns
16   -  4 turns 3 warp
16x  -  2 turns 1 warp
17S  -  2 turns 2 warp
18S  -  2 turns 1 rescue
19S  -  2 turns 1 warp
20S  -  3 turns 1 warp
20xS -  1 turn  1 warp
21   -  3 turns 2 warp 1 rescue
21x  -  2 turns 1 warp
22   -  3 turns 2 warp 1 rescue
23   -  2 turns
24   -  7 turns 1 warp 1 rescue
F    -  1 turn

[spoiler=Original OP of totally wrong things]

So I've been thinking about this for a while, and now feel confident in making a thread about it. This is going to be a complete recruitment and no deaths (except Merlinus) run.

dondon has laid a lot of good groundwork, but there's quite a few things that can only be achieved in a playthrough with growths, most notable of which is that a Roy with enough defensive parameters can save turns and warp uses in many chapters. If Roy is bulky enough he won't need to be warped in on the turn he needs to seize, or the boss area doesn't need to be cleared, meaning he could be warped in with the bosskiller and dropped safely. Extra warp uses could be allocated to secure extra treasure and the like for potentially more money for boots too. A Roy with enough hp/def/avo can definitely save a turn on 20x, and likely save a turn on 16x. Whilst this run will rig, rigging continous extremely low odds on enemy phase (like having Roy dodge 90%'s repeatedly) is far more taxing than rigging growths, hits or crits on player phase, so the bulk is appreciated.

There's also the potential for a 3rd competant Warper/Status Staff user in Saul. Buff Roy + Saul with at least 17 Mag can save a turn in 20x if Saul Berserks the Swordmaster and Roy has good enough stats to make the SM attack a Shaman on EP, causing him to get out of the way of the throne. More warp range on Saul can also save turns on 16x. If I can save enough warp uses, I may be able to afford using Warp in chapters such as 17 or 18 to save turns.

Lastly, there's the additional component of Bolting, which can allow for bosskills at 10 range, again either saving Warp uses or saving a turn (I think it mostly saves Warp which translates into turns saved elsewhere though). Unfortunately, Bolting has 10 Wt, only 5 uses, and only shows up in Chapter 16. The only Bolting user who has any chance of achieving a bosskill by themselves in one round of combat is Lilina, since although there are a couple of bosses that can be doubled by Bolting, they're all 3HKO's or worse, meaning we need a crit. (damn you+ 5 throne resistance!). Enemies have an actual luck stat in this game so even capped skill Lugh is unable to pull crit on any post Ch16 boss, but Lilina can get some extra points of crit via her C Support with Roy, which only needs 1 turn to reach. (in fact, Lilina is probably the only non Swordmaster/Berserker unit capable of pulling crit on most bosses without a crit weapon in LTC). Unfortunately, Lilina joins 5 chapters after Lugh, and Lugh is force deployed for 2 maps anyway, making training him far easier than Lilina. Additionally, since I don't actually care about growths (I'm rigging) Lugh and Liina's bases are effectively identical for mag and speed when taking into account their different promotional bonuses. Obviously, critting saves Bolting uses too though. Theoretically Lugh can get exactly one bosskill if he gets danced or has 2 turns to get the kill, but then unless you Hammerne Bolting (lol) or buy it at the Secret Shop he won't be able to actually kill another boss with it. But since I'm still doing planning there is a possibility that I may only need him to actually kill one boss, and there's always that obnoxious Priest on C18 who could be bolting'd to allow a 4 turn. Also, Lilina's ability to pull existant crit on bosses thanks to the Roy support means that theoretically, if both she and Roy are ferried to the throne, or Roy rescues Lilina and is Warped and drops Lilina in range of boss (Boots to Roy might actually happen lol), she might be able to keep up a steady stream of bosskill EXP even without Bolting, which can start a positive feedback loop. Note that Lilina also is extremely likely to draw enemy AI compared to other units due to her pitiful hp and def so her getting EXP is not as hard as it initially seems.

Bosses that can be killed via Bolting and the required mag to crit kill them are as follows. The +1 Mt from Roy's support factored into the calculation, without it everything needs +1. Lilina's mag cap is 30.

BOSS&CHAPTER MAG REQUIRED MAG INCREASES

narshen-C16 18 mag OHKO 10
windam-C16x 20 mag OHKO 12
alucard-C17 18 mag OHKO 10
martel-C18 26 mag OHKO 18
sigune-C19 22 mag OHKO 14
roartz-C20 25 mag OHKO 17
tick-C20X 29 mag OHKO 21
murdoch-C21 30 mag ORKO (1 crit 1 hit) 22
pereth-C21X 30 mag OHKO 22
zephiel-C22 29 mag ORKO (2 crits) 21
brunya-C23 28 mag OHKO 20
jahn-C24 30 mag ORKO (1 crit 1 hit) 22

There are 10 total bosses that can be potentially doubled with Bolting, and the requirements range from 22 Speed to 25. Lilina's speed cap is 25.

BOSS&CHAPTER ATTACK SPEED SPEED REQUIRED SPEED INCREASES

windam-C16x 14 23 16
alucard-C17 15 24 17
martel-C18 14 23 16
roartz-C20 13 22 15
tick-C20x 13 22 15
murdoch-C21 13 22 15
pereth-C21x 15 24 17
zephiel-C22 14 23 16
jahn-C23 15 24 17
iden-FINAL 16 25 18

Obviously this information is mostly superflous (Iden especially, Roy is killing her) since we're going to rig crits but I worked it out anyway. These requirements are all very steep, but become slightly less steep when you consider I have to get at least 9 levels to promote on Lilina anyway and if she manages to keep getting bosskills, the downside of promoted exp gain shouldn't be an issue and she can just about manage to reach some benchmarks. In theory anyway. The first third of the game tends to have Rutger ferried to preform bosskills so an infantry unit that can attack at 2 range like Lilina should be able to replicate many strategies. Martel is the only boss that I think Lilina can save turns via killing, (I'm not entirely sure though because I don't know how the enemies are going to move and stuff) but being able to kill particular enemies in the way at 10 range, or saving Warp should translate into more turns shaved elsewhere anyway.

Lastly is the prospective of either Alan or Lance getting raised and rigged like crazy, but I don't really think them being particularly strong can actually save any turns except maybe in C7, C8x and C22. They might save some money on statboosters compared to Percival with enough levels, but Percival's base speed and str are so incredibly good that I have my doubts. To put it into perspective, either of them without statboosters need at to be 13/1 with perfect levels on str and speed non stop to match Percival, and Percival has Silver Swords, Lances and Killer Axes at base, and I can just rig his levels after he joins anyway, plus he's probaby the only realistic candidate for Durandal in the endgame. Alan has a slight edge on Lance beacuse multiple Speedwings exist before Percival joins (C11 and 14), but the only Energy Ring is in C19. Bartre's route gives an extra Energy Ring, but it costs more turns no matter what because Tate spawns on Turn 10 instead of 7. Also, if Lilina is actually going to be bosskilling and stuff, there won't nearly be as much exp for them to get anyway.

(There's also super Thany/Shanna but aside from being able to potentially sponge a hit or two sometimes when carrying someone, I'm really not convinced she can save any turns when trained extensively)

Anyway if you guys have any thoughts or ideas, please contribute.

This run is a 133 turn clear in a complete recruitment setting of FE6 Hard Mode.

EDIT: lol I put 7 instead of 8 for Chapter 12 for ages so thats where the old 132 number comes from. Go me.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Irysa

[Yojinbo]

Assuming you won't recruit everybody? Assuming you're OK with units dying?

[Irysa]

No, sorry, I'll update the first post. It's complete recruitment and no deaths. This is actually easier in many ways than not getting everyone and allowing deaths because basically every single unit can save a turn if they die, and the recruitment timers for units like Cath allow for a generous buffer to get a lot of treasure to sell for more money for boots at the endgame.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Irysa

[X-Naut]

A Bolting ORKO on Iden isn't happening without a double crit because the floor in her chapter grants +10 Res. Not that that's particularly relevant when 15 Move Roy can just run up and destroy her.

[Irysa]

Ah, I forgot about that thanks. Yeah it isn't really neccessary at all, I just have it listed in the calcs for completion's sake. A Roy with growths either going to ORKO or 2HKO Idenn most likely, or I can just get him to rig a crit with his Lilina support.

[dondon151]

bolting is buyable in the ch 21 secret shop

(There's also super Thany/Shanna but aside from being able to potentially sponge a hit or two sometimes when carrying someone, I'm really not convinced she can save any turns when trained extensively)

super shanna + super roy should allow for chapter 14 to be 3-turned, i think. shanna needs either 22 str or 27 spd to ORKO the boss (25 spd with the ch 13 body ring) and roy needs to survive being dropped in the area. see the strat from my NM run:

EDIT: 24 skl also allows shanna to pull 1% crit on the boss on HM, so you could try for a silver lance OHKO as well.

Edited February 15, 2015 by dondon151

[Yojinbo]

roy needs to survive being dropped in the area.

The Hero that attacks him on EP has 17 AS and 24 Atk. Roy should never die as long as he at least 14 AS.

[Irysa]

http://youtu.be/J7M-XHf2gU4

I 4 turned Chapter 1 with a Silver Lance crit on the boss. 4 is definitely the absoloute minimum here, and the strat is actually pretty safe surprisingly. Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out a way to 4 turn without additionally relying on Roy critting a Fighter with his Rapier so that Alan could clear the path for Roy to seize. Technically Alan could 1% crit the Fighter instead but Roy at least has 11% critrate thanks to the Rapier, so aiming for that is slightly more reliable (albeit ignoring the fact it requires a rig on enemy phase).

Alan could potentially have been rigged a level with defensive stats too. I guess I really should be exploiting stuff like that for all it's worth, but it's good to at least get the strats down and recorded. I already feel conflicted about the propositions of "how much rigging is too much?", since I can hypothetically just TAS esque rig crits forever, but at the same time I think trying to at least minimise reliance on such RNG abuse is probably beneficial to the integrity of the run.

[General Horace]

you don't need any crits in chapter 1 other than the one on the boss if you had fullmoved Marcus on turn 2 and dropped roy on the destroyed village south of the throne

Edited February 15, 2015 by General Horace

[Irysa]

That was the strat I attempted in the first place. His path gets blocked by 2 Fighters if I do that, and I have to deal with Bandit on a Forest on the turn before which is kind of aggravating.

If you didn't know, ruins cost 2 to mov on, so he can't just move around the Fighter to seize.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Irysa

[Lord Raven]

I think if you have a cav rescue on turn 1, give it to Marcus, then full move Marcus, you wouldn't need a crit either. You could have one of the cavs finish off the fighter you attack on Turn 2 (since he moves to the right of Marcus if you attack him) , drop roy left on turn 3, have him dodge both fighters and do whatever to the Archer, then I believe you should have a clear path to the throne after rigging a Marcus crit.

[General Horace]

roy doesn't actually have to traverse the ruin, he just sits on the edge of it

you can lure the fighters that block marcus with alan/lance

i just did the chapter yesterday, it works.

[Irysa]

Hmm, you're right, I just did it without the crit. Wolt rescues Roy on Turn 1, then gives him to Marcus on 2, kills the Bandit in the way and Marcus fullmoves and attacks a fighter. Alan hits the Archer, Lance kills one of the weakened fighters. However what I'm currently having happen is that Alan ends up having to dodge like at least 2 out of 4 enemies after that lure shit out of Marcus's way, is that what you did too? Roy gets way less exp this way as well which is kinda a bummer.

[General Horace]

Yeah, Roy gets pretty much nothing, and he probably needs it for later in the game. Although I think you could just have Marcus pick Roy up on turn 2 and go with him, and Roy can get a kill on the bandit Marcus weakens on turn 1 or something.

I think you could honestly probably optimize chapter 1 a little better so that dudes like Wolt that will do nothing ever don't get any kills though.

Edited February 16, 2015 by General Horace

[Lord Raven]

Roy has plenty of chances to get EXP. Chapter 4 is one, he could nick a couple kills in 6, and the western isles end up being kind of long just because of all the recruitment.

[Yojinbo]

In a 4-turn clear Roy only has turn 2 player phase and turn 3 enemy phase to gain exp so it's pretty much impossible to give him significantly more than 30 exp from that kill on turn 2 and a few more from turn 3.

[Irysa]

http://youtu.be/aCyR-LsBJ4Y

v2. 4 turns (duh).

No crit except for the bosskill, EXP spread is as good/better, Roy gets 50exp and Wolt is only taking one kill at the end uncontested. Alan's chance of death on Turn 2 is roughly 30% or something. He gets 3HKO'd so he needs to dodge at least twice. Turn 3 is much better though since I use defensive terrain.

Thanks Horace and Raven for helping out and getting me to actually optimise, this is my first time trying a documented LTC so I need all the help I can get.

[spoiler=Hitrates]

Turn 2 EP

Alan (21hp) vs Brigand/Fighters/Archer
47 Hit 10 Dmg
54 Hit 10 Dmg
50 Hit 10 Dmg
76 Hit 06 Dmg

Turn 3 EP

Roy (18hp) vs Fighters
45 Hit 12 Dmg
42 Hit 12 Dmg

Alan (15hp) vs Brigand/Fighter/Archer
27 Hit 9 Dmg
30 Hit 9 Dmg
56 Hit 4 Dmg

Lance (20hp) vs Fighter
40 Hit 10 Dmg

I didn't edit the shit at the start because the video length was exactly 4:20

Edited February 16, 2015 by Irysa

[Yojinbo]

You forgot to give Marcus the Javelin. It's needed to ORKO one of the soldiers on the first turn of the next chapter. Alan and Lance can't attack him because they're needed to rescue drop Marcus on the fort and the only other unit who can reach him on turn 1 is Wolt IIRC and he can't ORKO him.

But this strategy for Ch.1 looks a whole lot better. I like how you managed to get Alan and Lance stand next to each other that one turn without losing turns, giving Wolt unnecessary kills or rigging janky crits. I doubt there's a lot you can do to optimize this chapter other than giving Marcus the Javelin and you're already a turn ahead of dondon.

[Irysa]

Marcus can just ORKO the Soldier with Iron Lance instead. Or the Soldier can die on EP. It doesn't matter.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Irysa

[General Horace]

Yeah, it's better if that solider bounces off Roy for 10 exp than being eaten by Marcus anyway. Bors can replace one of the cavs in the fortdrop too.

What cavalier are you gonna pour levels into? I imagine it'll be kind of detrimental if you train both evenly.

[Irysa]

I think Alan has an edge over Lance because of the aforementioned Speedwings thing. Lance might double quicker, but speed is somewhat superfluous because Lance can't double the faster enemy types in this game anyway, so hitting harder matters more, esp in earlygame. Alan has a tiny durability lead too which may or may not be important. I expect Lance to turn into a rescuebot after C8 to be honest, Espinosa tried to raise both of them in his run but since I need to make sure Lilina gets exp there's no way there's enough for all of them.

I should probably list the units I'm intending on using.

Roy - Extremely high priority, even an extra point of HP or Speed makes a huge difference in where he can be safely dropped. This is annoying since he has to be carried around so much. I'll have to rework strats to make sure he's getting kills. I'm really thinking about giving him boots over Miledy/Shanna.

Alan - I don't actually expect him to be better than Percival but having an extra Paladin that isn't Marcus or Zealot to fall back on will be useful anyway.

Marcus - I think I will actually be giving Marcus bosskills over Dieck and rigging stats for him, and trying to keep using him as long as possible as filler. He's better than Zealot if you rig levels due to better skill. Dieck's bases are good but he can't get the first crest, it simply has to go to Rutger. There's no competiton in LTC.

Shanna - She needs to be fed a lot of EXP anyway to make sure we go to Ilia, so if I rig all her levelups she might start doing that whole positive feedback loop thing. The statistical benchmarks for actually killing things in this game that aren't Wyverns or Heroes are actually kinda low, and she has a ridiculous speed base (level 1 unit with 12 speed!?), so...I dunno. She is probably a better investment of resources than Alan really, Alan just won't get any time to shine other than ORKOing some Pirates in the Western Isles I think, and maybe oneshotting some Cavs/Pallies with Horseslayer.

Rutger - Well he's kinda neccessary for a while but to be 100% honest...I'm thinking about maybe not even investing in Rutger and just letting Marcus take bosskills until I get Lilina. You don't need that much speed to double earlygame, and he is really pretty bad later on, plus Lilina is going to take most of his exp. I could sell the Hero Crest instead. I won't have a Durandal user for C12, but I think Lilina should be able to start doing massive damage by then.

Saul - No brainer. He needs at least 10 consecutive levels of Mag to save a turn in 20x, which is a bit tight but probably doable if he's getting to use Warp more.

Astol - He can basically do everyting a promoted Rutger would need to do for the midgame aside from actually kill bosses. The guy is mad underrated as a combat unit. It sucks he can't promote.

Lilina - #LILINAEMBLEM. I'm really worried about training her but I'm going to do my best. If it doesn't work out I might just crash the run and restart to reoptimise or to try to train Lugh instead.

Shin - No brainer.

Klein - Awesome in Chapter 12, okay in 13, might get used in 14. After that he's basically useless.

Tate - Needs to be trained to go to Ilia, and flies. Her bases are decent but it's kinda depressing that her speed base is what it is for the time she joins, since Shanna starts with fucking 12 base speed without HM bonuses. That speed base is a big problem because she just won't double too many enemy types with a Killer Lance, which is the only way she's offsetting her meh offence.

Echidna if Astol stops cutting it for random decent extra sworduser, Echidna is the next best go to.

MIledy - Duh. I think I might actually be able to get the same TC for 13 without instant promoting her though, but we'll see. Super Shanna is actually better than Miledy though, so she might actually not be the main attraction? The question is really if I can manage to train Lilina Alan AND Shanna adequately, and Lilina is the number 1 priority so...

Percival - I don't even need to say anything.

Cecilia - Getting her to B staves is fucking impossible in LTC but she's a free 8 mov unit that can heal and use restore, barrier and hammerne and has non neglible chip vs various enemy types.

Sophia - JUST KIDDING. dat guiding ring contribution tho

Igrene - Brave Bows some enemies sometimes and kills a Bolting Mage on Chapter 16 with Longbow. I think that's it.

Fae - Absorbs status and seige magic.

Zeiss - He flies and has good sponging. However I don't think I can actually promote him if Shanna is taking the first Whip, unless I can spare a warp use to get Astol to steal the extra Elysian on Chapter 20. (which is still really late)

Douglas - WILL GO THE DISTANCE. I tentatively promise to try to get Douglas to do something useful at least once this run.

Niime - I need to rig her Mag at least 1 level for 1 extra tile of Warp range but I don't think I need to actually give her any statboosters other than a Robe (and boots) in this playthrough.

Juno - Free 8 mov flier. why is she so bad at everything else though.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Irysa

[MacLovin]

I bet Douglas becomes part of a rescue-chain.

Could you find use for Garret too?

[General Horace]

Sacae's probably the faster route with growths, imo.

[Irysa]

Niime can't build Dark Rank in Sacae and 20x in Sacae takes forever wheras I can 2 turn it in Ilia. Saul needs a whopping 20 levels to match her Apocalypse Mag, which is pretty unreasonable.

The other problem is that Sue is not worth training if Shin is around, wheras more 8 mov fliers are.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Irysa

[General Horace]

okay i'll expand on my thoughts a bit

the chapter 17's are pretty much a wash

18 Sacae is at least two turns faster than 18 Ilia

19 Sacae is at least as fast if not a turn faster than 19 Ilia

chapter 20's are a wash

you can 1 turn 20x, I don't know why you think it takes forever

when do you need Niime to have 3 extra warp range? can you just give her an energy ring at some point? Regardless, if her having 3 less warp range causes you to lose 4 turns, i'd be surprised.

I actually think Tate will be almost totally worthless too.

Edited February 16, 2015 by General Horace