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The Reason for the Problems With Awakening


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With no one to replenish their ranks, the Risen were probably hunted until they were no more. Future Past 3 touches on this if all four kids survive the battle.

Most likely.

The Risen probably persisted for some time, but with monotonically decreasing numbers.

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Awakening needed pre chapter narrative. That would answer a lot of questions.

Is there any reason they got removed? They've been in literally every game since like the 90's.

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Awakening needed pre chapter narrative. That would answer a lot of questions.

Is there any reason they got removed? They've been in literally every game since like the 90's.

I actually never thought of that till you mentioned it. I guess they count the premonition as the pre narrative?

Edited by LordTaco42
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Perhaps he was outside the meeting room, listening through the keyhole. That would still qualify as "heard it from the king's own lips".

I don't see why every little detail of what happened needs to be explicitly explained to the player.

Seriously, do you have no imagination at all or something?

Thanks, I do have an imagination. This thread is point our every tiny little detail that is wrong with Awakening the reason for the problems with Awakening, and since I usually view this game in a very favorable way, I decided to make a contribution to this discussion by pointing out something that bothered me within the game.

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Here's a topic I wanted to discuss. If Naga isn't a God, why worship and create a Religion around her? Why is Tiki called "The Voice" if she sleeps for so long?

Because she's perceived as a God. Even if something isn't actually a God if everyone thinks it is one it's going be worshipped/treated as a God.

Why wouldn't there be a religion around her?

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I actually never thought of that till you mentioned it. I guess they count the premonition as the pre narrative?

Nah. The pre chapter narrative is really important for filling in gaps between chapters and would really help Awakening.

Don't appreciate something until it's gone, right?

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Nah. The pre chapter narrative is really important for filling in gaps between chapters and would really help Awakening.

Don't appreciate something until it's gone, right?

i remember this stuff really does help a lot of the games in the series, if not all of them.

i would've loved to see that feature return.

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It WAS basically Kaga's real worldbuilding tool throughout his games. 6 and 10 did just as much a job with it, too.

Still, I can't help but feel as if they fall through the cracks of Show, Don't Tell. 10 told a bit too much of its story inside them. The liberation of Daein, the laguz capturing Telgam and Seliora, the motivations of the senators, that sort of thing.

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Usually the pre chapter narrative immediately starts off by introducing the world and the relations between the countries. Just that alone would help Awakening.

It WAS basically Kaga's real worldbuilding tool throughout his games. 6 and 10 did just as much a job with it, too.Still, I can't help but feel as if they fall through the cracks of Show, Don't Tell. 10 told a bit too much of its story inside them. The liberation of Daein, the laguz capturing Telgam and Seliora, the motivations of the senators, that sort of thing.

RD is a good example of how much weight the pre chapter narrative can carry. Now that I think about it, RD would be a mess without it.

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I think RD maybe got a bit too redundant at times with the pre-narrative. Like, it would say something about, say, Jarod or the Senators (depending on chapter, of course) and then the scene immediately after would do exactly what was stated and make me wonder why they did that. One thing I did think was unnecessary was the pre-Part "still to come" spoilery narratives, which I thought were a really weird choice.

I definitely agree that Awakening could have benefited from some level of pre-chapter narrative, though,

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Nah. The pre chapter narrative is really important for filling in gaps between chapters and would really help Awakening.

Don't appreciate something until it's gone, right?

Same with villages that didn;t give you any items but instead gave exposition.

Also, I believe that Tiki being Naga's daughter is never actually mentioned in the game. That's quite the detail to leave out.

Edited by Ranger Jack Walker
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Same with villages that didn;t give you any items but instead gave exposition.

Also, I believe that Tiki being Naga's daughter is never actually mentioned in the game. That's quite the detail to leave out.

Honestly, I never really liked the villages as exposition tools since getting that information hindered gameplay (moving to the village and taking an action which doesn't help complete the chapter). I think that base conversations as in FE9/FE10 are a better method for giving that sort of worldbuilding background information.

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To show how poorly written the Grimleal are, I'll post the Loptyrians' information from Treasure:

Blagi Tower

The holy workers before the Lopto church commonly practiced rituals of the primal religion, and in reality they had no special abilities other than that they could read and write, had knowledge in herbs, and performed basic doctoral techniques. However, one of those people, Galae, acquired the power of Lopto and came back to the country. After that, holy workers of the newly constructed Lopto church used special spellbooks and staves and was able to acquire supernatural powers. Then, they controlled the world using those powers as the background (backbone), and finally achieved in creating the Lopto Empire with Galae as the peak(leader). Then the Lopto Empire even developed an absolute caste society. Especially followers of the other religion who was in the lowest caste became the Empires slaves, and was forced to live a life worse than poverty. On top of that, in the current situation the majority of civilians were followers of another religion because they were too poor to enter the Lopto religion, meaning they were slaves.

Under this situation, the group called Maira-ha (The -ha means style/type, pretty much like how theres Sunni Islam or Protestant Christiansso you can think of them as Mairist Loptos. Ill call them Mairists from here on) was in the Lopto religion but believed in the teachings of Maira, and for that they were labeled as revolutionists or justicists. Maira, although he was a member of the emperial family, protected the civilians, and was a crusader (saint) that later on caused a rebellion and was exiled. However, the teachings of Maira was something that tried to place the Lopto god to the high ranks of the Earthen (no real translation for this, I believe its read Dokishin) gods and plotted for the gods to be harmonialized to try to lose the discrimination within the Empire, so it (the teachings of Maira) was recieving pressure and obstruction from the Lopto Empire. Although Maira was said to be the one and only good person within the Emperial inner circle, he was put in a place as a secret messiah.

Blagi, who was one of the 12 holy knights, was a holy worker who received the teachings of that Mairist Lopto church. As he was about to become a sacrifice at a young age, he was saved by a Mairist bishop, and grew up in a hidden small island located in Augstrias northern area which was one of their central locations. Then, in that land Blagi took in knowledge of a bishop, and joined the liberation army at a young age. He continued to fight against the oppression of the Lopto Empire, and as one of the last 12 fighters, met the miracle at Darna fortress. Blagi, who acquired the powers of the dragon race, was idolized as the one who controls fate and life, and did myriad amounts of services during the holy war.

After the Empire was destroyed, Blagi went back to his Mairist home town that saved and nurtured him. However, that land was already destroyed by the Emperial army, and what struck his eyes was the dispersed corpses of priests. Suprised and terrified, he went on to save the ruined world, and in order to release the people from the aftereffects of the Lopto Church, strived to revive the old Earthen religion. This was because it was the one and only religion for the people who are put in a place against Lopto, and the Mairist bishops were also wishing for it. At that point, Blagi constructed a new church with his homeland of Edda as the base location, and at the same time constructed a gigantic tower at the island that protected and nurtured him. In one theory, it was said to seal his own powers, but the towers goal was to mourn for the Mairist priests who saved the world from destruction, and to serve as an omen for the next generation. The omen was that the reason to build the tower was to tell them there were people in the Emperial inner circle and the Lopto church that saved the people by sacrificing their own bodies (lives), and to pay the debts owed to their heavenly souls.

North2s note: The caste system is a society in India with levels that people are born into.

For people that may not know this (although most probably do), Maira was mentioned in the game. It was something like Even if it is Lopto blood, the Lopto blood is that of Maira who fought for the people. Why should they be killed?' This was in reference to the witch/devil hunt that was going on in for people that was claimed to have Lopto blood in their veins. Alvis was blackmailed by Manfloy because he would be burned at the stake if the world knew that he did have Lopto blood, and a man of that much pride would not want this.

[Translations by TheEnd begin here; based on these notes from the official site]

So, Blagi wanted to leave a warning to the future generations that the descendants of the Empires upper class citizens shouldnt be persecuted or discriminated. Actually, Blagi wrote that himself in the altars stone monument, inside the tower, but somebody destroyed it later. Then, the warning was once again forgotten, and the results of such are well-known by everyone.

Eventually, the people started calling that place the Blagi Tower and started pilgrimages to there, as it was the place where Blagi, now a god, slept (his ashes were enshrined there). At this time, Blagi was one of the Twelve Apostles of the already organized Church of Edda, being the most worshipped god he who rules over life and destiny.

In this world, those called heroes are frequently elevated to the level of lower class deities after their deaths; the high-ranking gods are eternal, the ones indicated by the primal religions as the world builders. By the way, the highest god is the sky deity called Yudu (or Gran), but these gods arent mentioned ingame. The Twelve Apostles are the newest group among the countless gods of this world, being the most vastly worshipped ones due to their activity in the holy war. Theyre called guardian deities, military gods and other aliases.

So, we have an organization with less backstory and ideology than one from a video game on the SNES. The game never properly addresses what the Grimleal get out of Grima winning. Grima shows no actual regard for his worshipers, we don't see the Grimleal having a ball after the dragon comes back.

Here's a game that handled an organization like the Grimleal better: Warcraft 3 (The Cult of the Damned).

Edited by Saladus
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Honestly, I never really liked the villages as exposition tools since getting that information hindered gameplay (moving to the village and taking an action which doesn't help complete the chapter). I think that base conversations as in FE9/FE10 are a better method for giving that sort of worldbuilding background information.

I wonder, could a FE game use both the base conversations from 9 and 10 and the world map travelling from 2,8, and 13?

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I think calling Tiki the daughter of Naga is supposed to be metaphorical, like how Jesus is called the son of God. In that case it's not really important to the plot.

I wonder, could a FE game use both the base conversations from 9 and 10 and the world map travelling from 2,8, and 13?

We could make the Barracks good for something by doing that. What we need is to make it a bigger room, then have all of the people involved in that chapter's conversations walk in and start "talking". Icons would represent each conversation to listen to. This way it would seem like the Shepherds were really gathering there off-duty.

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You are trying too hard to read into an allusion. It's a simple "a ha" to players that recognize it. It's the same reason why Lucina uses the name "Marth" to conceal her identity. You might read it as "wow just trying to shoehorn it," but it's just an allusion.

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Lucina's Marth costume was also shoehorned. She's a marketing gimmick.

Awakening never properly details what pressing task required Tiki to sit around in Valm. It also never properly deals with her supposed importance in the world. She plays a bigger role in DLC than she does in the default game.

Edited by Saladus
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About time someone mentioned the Rule 63.

Now I just need someone to instantly tell me how to read Japanese. I have the feeling that if I went on Pixiv, I'd find some kind of huge e-community that treats Marth as the third pillar of Nintendo instead of Samus.

Actually, while we're on the subject of Tiki, her design is just stupid. It's a completely unrealistic dress that barely manages to cover up her nipples. And her character is really just "waif" from every viewable aspect.

Edited by Delphi Sage
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The Marth thing has more weight to it than you're giving credit. Come on. In particular, Tiki and Lucina's support.

This line from Chapter 14 is pretty good too.

Lucina
...... After your murder and Grima's return, I took the name Marth and fought back. I prayed to the Hero-King for a small part of the strength he used to save the world. But I need this subterfuge no longer. I choose to fight as Lucina now. The name that reminds me of the strength in the man and woman who chose it.

Edited by Irysa
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