Resetless Lunatic+ Run COMPLETED (Deathless) (With Complete Guide)

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I'd say a bit over 90% of the time with the current rule set (reliability can be significantly improved by allowing any combination of Renown to 1000, Bonus Box weaponry, shiny tiles and Anna shops). Throwing has a lot to do with it, but sometimes Robin's early levels just don't work out (I'm looking at you, attempts with 2 Spd gained over 10 levels). Granted, sometimes one of the funnier parts of the runs are seeing those statistical anomalies (1 Skl gained over 18 levels is probably my favourite).

Yeah, I can think of six instances, which probably isn't quite all of them. The first was my farthest run with deaths pretty early in this thread's life. I can't remember what went wrong, but I decided at that point to take a risk and use a whole bunch of fast-clear strats. This did a lot for my time, but hosed Chrom's stats big time, which came back to bite me when he couldn't secure a key kill in C24, which caused me to die of Counter. The others are a bit less dramatic. Mis-menuing item unequips has gotten me killed in C14 and twice in C18. A bad judgment call in equipping the forged Thunder over Elthunder got me wrecked by an HP+5 Counter Fighter reinforcement in C11. Likewise with P3 in that I got greedy for the Seraph Robe (to be fair, I was getting bad HP gains that run, IIRC), so instead of giving up on it, I pressed for a strat that was banking one either a crit from a crit forge or just plain getting a Vengeance proc (Mag was too low to one-shot with forged Flux, otherwise).

I had one deathless throw that almost died entirely in C20. Mis-menued and accidentally used the Dracoshield instead of an Elixir and Morgan died, followed quite shortly by Lucina. At that point, the game decided I should face some of the worst skill combinations for the old solo strats to take on, so we had some real close calls in C23 and C24.

[ChickenWings]

I can understand why you use those restrictions. They aren't guaranteed. Though Renown could start higher, provided that you had more than 260 Renown when you got to Lunatic+.

 

I myself usually just ban DLC, barracks, and tiles (if I don't need a unit on them) and Renown to 1000 (and appropriate stat boosters for whoever I'm using). In fact, despite less limitations, my Lunatic runs lately have been using more cash that I get other stuff. (I especially use Morgan to get more cash with the Leif Blade.)

 

Wouldn't using Bonus Box be considered consistent, or would it make the challenge too easy?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, Renown was something I debated a little on before settling on the bare minimum. Of course, it's a little weird because just adding, say, all the non-kid Paralogues or maybe Morgan's on top of those, wouldn't do a whole lot for item access. The main thing it would help with is C6, where the Beast Killer would be available, allowing Fred to deal with those pesky Counter Cavs (provided they don't also have Pavise+, in which case he needs to stay clear).

Bonus Box is indeed consistent. It's one of the things I considered allowing in first when I was thinking about the run's rules. I wouldn't say having them makes the challenge too easy, though they're not particularly necessary thanks to the forged Wind and Flux. Once I calculated those out, I decided I didn't need the Bonus Box items. That said, if someone were to use them, those would probably help the most because the huge Mt on the weaponry would help with overcoming some level of bad level ups when tackling the C5-C7 gauntlet. Namely, both Mjollnir and Naga (be really careful against Aegis+/Counter Wyvs with this one, though) would give Robin more breathing room and Gae Bolg would extend Fred's usefulness by a notable amount. Luna might also be useful for him to get in some hits that are a little harder than the Silver Lance without burning through Gae Bolg durability. Other than that, the swords might be a nice luxury for Chrom once he hits A swords in order to secure more DS kill EXP a little more often. And infinite Armads or Vengeance on Morgan might be kind of funny (but ultimately superfluous, since he wants to use the Short Axe most of the time until Helswath). Bows would generally be useless, though, since Morgan gets to A so late and infinite Yewfelle is better than any of the ones from the Bonus Box.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Making attempts tonight. Now with splits! http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[ChickenWings]

When do you think you'll resume your Lunatic+ runs?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Been making attempts the last couple Fridays, though I forgot to mention it last week's Friday. Gonna be on vacation May 17-27, though, so next attempt might be June 1. I'm going to need to mess around to see if I can fix the issue that caused last night's crash, though, because I really don't want to have it do that during a successful run.

[FionordeQuester]

If I may make a request...could you please post some recommended parties for Chapters 4+?  In every chapter that's more than just a Chrom/Robin solo?

Also, the way Chapters 2+ are laid out, it's hard to parse through all the relevant inforation.  For example, in Chapter 2, I didn't know whether to use "Intercept: Gamble/Low Attack version", "Defensive Version", or "Optimized Interceptor Strat"; so I ended up just following Interceptor's strat instead.

Thanks so much!

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

On 5/18/2018 at 9:26 AM, FionordeQuester said:

If I may make a request...could you please post some recommended parties for Chapters 4+?  In every chapter that's more than just a Chrom/Robin solo?

Also, the way Chapters 2+ are laid out, it's hard to parse through all the relevant inforation.  For example, in Chapter 2, I didn't know whether to use "Intercept: Gamble/Low Attack version", "Defensive Version", or "Optimized Interceptor Strat"; so I ended up just following Interceptor's strat instead.

Thanks so much!

Are you aiming for a highman run here? If so, you generally want to divide the campaign into chunks so that the earlier growth units can get running before the next one shows. Staff units can kind of do their own thing since they have a separate EXP pool to draw from.

• C3-C7 range: pick one of Sully, Stahl, Sumia or Vaike. Sumia tends to be the favoured pick, but she also starts out as the most fragile. Stahl has Spd issues and Vaike is going to run into non-perfect accuracy a lot. Sully's kind of in the middle with a mix of lesser versions of Sumia's durability issues and Stahl's precarious position of having certain enemies double.
• C7-C11 range: pick one of Cordelia, Nowi or Tharja. You can maybe do two if you know what you're doing. Take note that Nowi's high Def with low HP often puts her in danger of getting completely ruined by Luna+. Tharja has accuracy issues. Cordelia usually gets the favour here, though if you're looking for ranged chip, both Nowi and Tharja suffice to bypass Pavise+ spam. From there is basically comes down to if you want a unit that relies on raw bulk or somewhat inaccurate drain tanking. Also note that Libra and Anna can hop in to do support things or take emergency kills without much cost to anyone else.
• C12+: there's Henry, but this is the point where people start considering using one or two kids. Usually this falls into the category of anyone whose chapter has at most level 3 promoted enemies as the mooks. Strong preference for level 20 unpromoted mooks because they can get running faster. Popular picks here are Lucina, Morgan or Gregor!Laurent.

As to the strats, the requirements beyond the first couple chapters are pretty fluid. You have to look at enemy stats and see if your Robin and Fred can pull it off. A lot of Lunatic+ is piecing together exactly who has the stats to deal with which units in what wave. For C2 specifically, if you're doing a run with resets, then Interceptor's is kind of the go-to general strat because very little real time is lost if it fails. The other strats I lay out tend to be most plodding and cautious. This makes them safer, but lose more real time if there's any failure. The Gamble mountain Barb pretty much forces the Interceptor strat, though, since there's a 10% chance he picks a fight with Fred and three units teaming up on him like that is very likely to kill him. And that's before considering an isolated Fred could just get crit gibbed (whereas in optimized Interceptor, I have it so Stahl doesn't risk the crit gib).

[ChickenWings]

@Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

C3-C7: What about Miriel?

C7-C11: Mucho si.

C11+: Cherche isn't too good? While I'd love to vouch for Henry, he has major SPD issues. At least he is pretty good if his speed issues are resolved.

 

 

 

I'm also surprised Vaike is recommended for training over Lon'q, and Panne isn't considered.

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by ChickenWings

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Oh, right, don't know why I forgot about Miriel, since I listed Laurent. She has major fragility issues, but can get going decently enough with a tanky enough Robin to body block for her. I feel like training someone a little sturdier in the early game is better, though maybe she can sneak some EXP in doing chip, then do her real leveling in the early-mid game.

Cherche doesn't have much better Spd than Henry at that point in the game and has the weaker weapon type, since she's targeting Def versus Henry targeting Res. Either way, neither are typically all that preferred, since kid access is right around the corner. Still, if I had to choose one, Henry is generally the safer bet as far as someone being useful. I guess Cherche might seem a little more attractive if both Sumia and Cordelia are benched, but I think if a flier is going to get trained, it should be an early one since C8 is a major feast for them.

Lon'qu has the problem of being sword locked in a mode that likes to spam Counter. I guess it's less of an issue if the player is willing to dip into Bonus Teams for extra Levin Swords for him, though that can get really expensive fast. He's generally better off giving someone a boatload of Spd as a pair partner. Panne is also admittedly quite strong and I like her Wyvern build, but she requires a Second Seal to gets that (and is also pretty much the only way she's going to be useful since the only class worse than Taguel is Villager), which is something I think turns a lot of people off. It's definitely a notable opportunity cost, anyway.

[ChickenWings]

Is Vaike considered for training simply because he can immediately use Hand Axes? Kellam can use Javelins but he isn't considered?

Totally get why Virion, Gaius and Gregor aren't considered, though.

 

Besides Robin (who should try to get the renown Second Seal instead), who else should prioritize it? I don't see why not giving it to Panne if no one else would use it.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Kind of, yes. His Spd is also borderline salvageable. Kellam's is so bad that you need to be pretty blessed to save it. He's basically in a similar position to Nowi where Luna+ is extremely dangerous, but Nowi has a much easier time climbing out of her hole. Besides that, there's only two units who give her Def boosts on pair: Fred and Kellam. Fred's a much better unit who needs to be on the field. Therefore, it's really hard to justify giving up Kellam's +5 Def that can be passed around.

Gregor actually isn't super bad, but the other options are generally better, coupled with a similar issue to Kellam for pair bonuses: Merc and Hero bonuses are just so good, it's hard to justify having him as a non-backpack.

Robin is still more or less the main reason. Every SS invested into her puts her farther and farther ahead of the curve. Having two available up to and including Gangrel lets her do Sorc->Dark Flier ASAP, which makes everything safer for everyone (especially since space can get real tight in C11-C14). That said, Panne can still get one if Anna shops are in use and Anna plays nice (I've seen some really troll Iron-only shops from her in high man...).

[ChickenWings]

....Or in my case where only ONE appeared so far (actually in chapter 8 now)... With the best thing being an Energy Drop...

Doesn't a second seal appear in chapter 12, though? That's when I used it in my first (highman) Lunatic+ run. I was training up some characters, so Robin wasn't able to SS until late chapter 12.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, one does. A highman that initially leans heavily on Robin and wants to utilize more kids can often have her able to SS out of Sorc around C11 while still raising as many as two other combat pairs, though. Every earlier step toward Galeforce also makes it safer for raising everyone else (or, if lucky, getting to a point where Robin has so much raw bulk that she can distract the enemy indefinitely while the other player units pick them off one at a time).

[ChickenWings]

3 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Yeah, one does. A highman that initially leans heavily on Robin and wants to utilize more kids can often have her able to SS out of Sorc around C11 while still raising as many as two other combat pairs, though. Every earlier step toward Galeforce also makes it safer for raising everyone else (or, if lucky, getting to a point where Robin has so much raw bulk that she can distract the enemy indefinitely while the other player units pick them off one at a time).

Oh no wonder, I'm not using kids, so that's why I take a bit longer for GF.

[FionordeQuester]

Btw, have you ever thought of doing a run with resets?  One that aimed for the quickest real time completion above all else?  Cuz I'd find that MOST fascinating!

[PraiseKaga]

Is using 8 combat units too many for Lunatic+? I remember doing Robin x Cordelia and Chrom x Sumia and getting 4 GF kids which made Lunatic pretty easy. I was able to train and use all 8 units. How well would this work on Lunatic+?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

20 hours ago, FionordeQuester said:

Btw, have you ever thought of doing a run with resets?  One that aimed for the quickest real time completion above all else?  Cuz I'd find that MOST fascinating!

I actually did one about three weeks back when I was having crash issues again and didn't want to risk it coming up in a Resetless. It was a Nostank meme run, though I wasn't pushing too hard on the RTA, though, since I hadn't properly routed it. I'm not sure how often I want to do it, though, since doing it for the absolute fastest speed makes it the kind of reset-fest that people had stereotyped the mode for in the first place.

6 hours ago, PraiseKaga said:

Is using 8 combat units too many for Lunatic+? I remember doing Robin x Cordelia and Chrom x Sumia and getting 4 GF kids which made Lunatic pretty easy. I was able to train and use all 8 units. How well would this work on Lunatic+?

Eight is going to spread you really thin on EXP, which is going to be a big problem against Counter spam. Granted, you could go all bows, but then you'd have weak stats, which would get wrecked by fast enemies with Luna+. You could maybe compromise and do four combat pairs where the pair-up partner occasionally jumps in front to do a bit of combat (you can see me doing this in Resetless with Lucina, so it's kind of like I have 2.5 fighting units). Five combat pairs is about where I'd draw the line for the mode if you really know what you're doing. After that, anything else kind of just becomes chip support and Rescue staff bots make much better support units on Lunatic+ than anything else (I'd say even above Olivia).

Edited June 2, 2018 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[ChickenWings]

I dunno. Czar Yoshi does those GF runs. He also tried to convince me how they are more reliable than the Nosferatu runs I'm doing...

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yoshi's highman does quad Galeforce, though, which uses roughly four combat pairs, all with Galeforce leads. That's a pretty far cry from eight.

[ChickenWings]

38 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Yoshi's highman does quad Galeforce, though, which uses roughly four combat pairs, all with Galeforce leads. That's a pretty far cry from eight.

Doesn't 4 combat pairs mean 8 characters though? Even supporters, especially Chrom since he gets a significant more killing hits early on?

[PraiseKaga]

55 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Yoshi's highman does quad Galeforce, though, which uses roughly four combat pairs, all with Galeforce leads. That's a pretty far cry from eight.

I meant 8 combat units/4 combat pairs, not 8 combat pairs. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I used

Chrom/Sumia

Robin/Cordelia

Severa/Morgan

Cynthia/Lucina

I was wondering if someone could give me advice on what class paths each unit should take? I haven't played Awakening in 3 years lol.

1 hour ago, ChickenWings said:

I dunno. Czar Yoshi does those GF runs. He also tried to convince me how they are more reliable than the Nosferatu runs I'm doing...

Does he do playlogs/videos of these runs?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

29 minutes ago, ChickenWings said:

Doesn't 4 combat pairs mean 8 characters though? Even supporters, especially Chrom since he gets a significant more killing hits early on?

I wouldn't really count the backpacks as combat units unless they swap to the lead position a decent amount of the time. Yes, Chrom gets a decent amount of kills, often resulting in him being a good pair support, but I still wouldn't put him up front.

7 minutes ago, PraiseKaga said:

I meant 8 combat units/4 combat pairs, not 8 combat pairs. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I used

Chrom/Sumia

Robin/Cordelia

Severa/Morgan

Cynthia/Lucina

I was wondering if someone could give me advice on what class paths each unit should take? I haven't played Awakening in 3 years lol.

Does he do playlogs/videos of these runs?

Okay, well, there probably shouldn't be much issue with those. You'll need to put pretty much all of your EXP into Sumia and Cordelia after C7 if you want to get them to acquire Galeforce in a timely manner. This means relegating Robin to the back with Cordelia for a while (him helping with DSs should help stop him from becoming irrelevant, though). Catch him up with Morgan's paralogue if necessary.

Aside from that, have a game plan for dealing with Grima's double 53 defenses.

As far as class paths, Severa's big on physical, so something like Bow Knight or Sniper is a safe choice. Hero's also good and gives useful late-game skills. Cynthia could stay in the Pegasus line or hop over to Paladin. Every lead pretty much enjoys having Paladins as their pair partner, though a mobile magic class like Dark Knight or Dark Flier could work for Morgan (assuming the class is available—also, maybe don't do that for Lucina).

Edited June 3, 2018 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Picking this back up again and have been looking at making some revisions. Not updating the guide yet, as I'd like to trial them against real runs first.

Probably the most interesting thing I'm trying is having Miriel available as a viable pair option. Basically, I've never been fully satisfied with the crit Thunder being used with average or better Robins. That's supposed to be more of a desperation move for below-average Robins. A Robin with slightly above-average Mag can, with a Miriel C and a Flux +5 Mt, start one-shotting the non-HP+5 Fighters and Cavaliers in C6. C7 enemies also aren't much bulkier, so its usefulness extends into there as well. However, there are two main downsides thus far. The first is that trying to fit Miriel into the support routing is a pain. C3 and C5 are Miriel's best opportunities to get points, but the need for flexible position and pairing means it's easy for her to get edged out of Robin's top 3 for the map. C2 is also theoretically a place where that could happen, but Chrom, Fred and Lissa tend to accumulate tons of points with Robin there. The other issue is the loss of bulk. Hitting the Miriel C helps soften that a bit, since we get to maintain the +10 Avoid, but ideally, Robin's Def and HP should be average or better. In short, an uncommon scenario with lots of moving parts. So far, I've missed getting the support by the end of C5 as often as not, so not the greatest results. Considering spending the Seed of Trust to start skewing things in my favour.

Similarly to Miriel, but with support gain being more consistent, is using Lissa as a back-up pair partner when Robin is a few points short of hitting Mag thresholds. So far, I've used her in P4 and C9. The obvious downsides are disruption to who is deployed and who is paired to whom. This can make it difficult to get people where they need to be or screw with AI movement. This is basically something I'd like to test against quite a few more skill combinations.

Then there's a couple strategies that are farther along in testing, such that, unless I discover some kind of major flaw over the next few runs, they'll probably end up getting added. These are basically the C23 and C24 safer strats that involve bringing Anna and Libra for Rescues, and Olivia for Dancing (and Basilio/Flavia to C24 to bait off Spear Wyverns).

For those interested in seeing, I'm going to start posting again whenever I'm streaming it. This will typically be the same old 7PM PT Friday slot, plus this week I've got some time off, so I'm looking at doing an additional run on Tuesday. I may also end up doing segmented runs or straight-up labbing every now and again.

[Interceptor]

Doubt I can catch the streams, but glad to see you're still workin' this. 👍