Resetless Lunatic+ Run COMPLETED (Deathless) (With Complete Guide)

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, I've been toying with revisiting the strats there. I've yet to find an opening as good as Interceptor's, though (and admittedly, what happened there was a string of such astronomically bad luck that it's very unlikely to come up again; I just feel like I should have another look, just in case). When I first started working on this, I think I spent close to an entire stream session just looking at the first half of that chapter. There was actually some decent stuff that could be done in the forest on the right, but random enemy movement patterns basically destroyed any resemblance of reliability it had.

So I've been eyeballing the starting layout (haven't actually tried anything yet), looking at alternative ways to fight around the Mountain tiles. The main thing I want to do is pull the Mountain Barb off to fight somewhere else, but doing so looks like it will cause equally big issues elsewhere. Of course, maybe the AI will surprise me once I start actually toying around with things. Alternatively, it could also be something like what happened with C3: if I can find a good clear that works very well under certain conditions, I could do that, otherwise fall back to the current strat.

[omega zero]

Quick question, how vital is MU's gender when it comes to consistent clears?

[Vascela]

Depends on what you define as a consistent clear. The first chapters' turn by turns really wouldn't change as the biggest difference is S rank support vs A rank. There's also different methods of doing the mid/late campaign (while galeforce is a female exclusive, dark magic is not).

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

With the strats I have laid out, if we're talking about the full run, pretty vital. Galeforce contributes a rather extreme amount of safety to the run. For individual levels, the early maps have virtually no difference between them.

However, I should also note that the point at which the strats stop working specifically for male Robin is generally a point in the game where Robin will be well ahead of the level curve and has many reclassing options open to him. Galeforce is one of the safest, but not the only way to get through mid-late game. A Nos Sorce with careful positioning should be able to get through. Barring that, there's also bow-centric builds, where male Robin having access to the excellent Warrior class would likely allow him to keep up with a female Galeforce Sniper!Robin.

So, I suppose the answer is a bit conditional. If you're wanting to follow my route (once I actually get around to cleaning and posting all those notes @_@), it's absolutely vital, because the back 2/3 of my run leans heavily on Galeforce. However, I think there's enough flexibility in male Robin's classes that he could also get through using other powerful builds (take this with a grain of salt, though, as I have no done the routing with male Robin, so there may be something I take for granted with female Robin that would get in his way).

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I think I found a safer strat in terms of making sure my damage actually lands, but it also has the trade-off of more incoming damage and more stringent pre-reqs. Namely, Fred ends up fighting both Mercs and the Fort Soldier. In order to survive, either only one enemy can have Luna+ or two of the enemies have Luna+ and Fred/Virion is at C. On top of that, Robin needs 13 Spd (approximately average for +Spd) and a Sully C or just plain 14 Spd. And of course, Robin/Chrom needs to be at C too.

It's a lot of requirements, but basically, if Robin is snowballing a bit harder than usual, this particular strat lets me take advantage of it and makes it tougher to get RNGed. At least, the first half-dozen trials have proven promising, anyway. Maybe I'll get to show it off tonight.

EDIT: Of course, right after I type this, the very next attempt has the enemies randomly change targets. -_-

Edited April 3, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Bah, it's stream time and there's too much potential odd enemy movement for the strat to be usable in its current state. Guess I'll just run with the current strat again for now. Anyway, hit up http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi if you want to see my attempts.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Czar_Yoshi]

*Obligatory "Miriel is so evil" post*

The last two runs in a row were both done in by you, Miriel. See if I ever trust you again.

And the last run, put into Yolo mode by Miriel's killing of Fred in Cht.2, was fully done in by her again in Cht.3. Right as I was typing up a warning to throw her under the bus before she could do any more damage, SHE DID.

Three misses from Miriel. Two runs and a subsequent yolo sunk so hard that Virion was carrying. Yololi x Virion otp.

For anyone who wants Yololi (may she live on FOREVER), her stats were build 2, face 3, hair 1 and hair color 18, voice 3, birthday 1/1 and asset/flaw +Spd/-Skl.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Tonight was just really weird that way. Like, consistent bad luck such that things stuck out, but nothing astronomically bad like the double Elthunder crit into Fred getting crit segement.

One other highlight of the night was, I think the first run again, where Robin was balling out of control. She was so scary that the C1 boss decided he'd rather fight Fred than her. Unfortunately, Chrom let this power go to his head and he got lazy for the C2 Mountain Barb kill and that was that.

I may make it a tradition to bring in Yololi for the final, last-ditch run of the night. >.>

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yet another interim gone by and still C2 doesn't want to cooperate. So far every opening that has bettter chances of kill enemies ends up being extremely vulnerable to random movement (or random attack targets for whatever the AI somehow considers units of comparable power). Granted, last session was less about C2's current strat being a jerk and more about Pavise+ being everywhere and that Pavise+/Counter Soldier totally nosediving my damage output.

Fingers crossed for tonight: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[Czar_Yoshi]

My comments for the night:

[spoiler=More chat shenanigans]

• Anunculturedlittlepotato: Wow i'm far behind on stream D:
• Czar_yoshi: Hey Potato if I yelled Crit for no reason would you panic?
• Anunculturedlittlepotato: Yes
• Anunculturedlittlepotato: In my sleep deprived state
• Czar_yoshi: well the Mage died so it's safe
• Anunculturedlittlepotato: I'd have a heart attack
• Czar_yoshi: O.o the Myrm swam out and killed Robin
• Czar_yoshi: (just trolling)
• Anunculturedlittlepotato: WHAT
• Anunculturedlittlepotato: I hate you

Run 1: strangest luck ever. 5 DGs in Pro, recovery from a turn 1 EP Fred miss, more Res than Def and Fred dies to a Zeal crit in Cht.1. Blue haired Avatar.

Run 2: forgetting to read supports = best cause of resets. Sleepy Avatar.

Run 3: bad enemy movement in Cht.1. Nothing special (other than Res being higher than Def again). Another sleepy Avatar.

Run 4: Entering Par.1 around 1:50. Better than the Par.1 run by ~25 mins and worse than the Cht.24 run by ~30 mins. Kellam missed in Cht.3, triggering a yolo that resulted in Miriel's death but a safe clear- he was trying to get rid of her before she could sink the run, and is a true unsung hero. Marth survived longer than normal in Cht.6, but still sank to a Counter Cav. But then in Cht.7, accidentally backed out of the Trade window before taking all of Fred's stuff... And everybody died as a result. Chrom fought mightily to save Robin and had as good of RNG as he possibly could- many consecutive DGs in a row- but they just weren't enough to save Robin from the last Wyvern having Counter. Alas. Robin had a blonde fro.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah, that first attempt was just plain amazing for its level of absurdity. Definitely one for the highlights.

The fourth run really frustrates me because Robin with 15 Def is pretty insane luck. I suppose that's why Kellam decided to compensate by becoming the new Miriel (since he also got Virion, the carrying hero of the last yolo run, murdered, too). Of course, upon analysis, there was something I could have done to do my initial "Robin murders everything on the left" strat. Sully would've given her that extra Spd, at the cost of 2 Def. Would've made tanking all the hits a bit tight (and only really because of the Luna+ Archer), but having Fred with Kellam pitch a Javelin at the Soldier would have allowed Robin to kill him with a Fire double. Granted, with a miss on an 81 in the RNG queue, it's entirely possible Robin would have missed one of the Fire attacks too, so maybe it was just destined.

I also need to make a note to myself to have Fred chuck every weapon other than his Hand Axe back into storage. There's zero reason for him to be attacking with anything else during the majority of that chapter, anyway. At least, it'll make it so if I screw up that menuing again, it won't be fatal.

EDIT: I think I also figured out why I had 25 Mag noted, even though it's still wrong. I'm reasonably sure that was written before I was certain just how much of the forged Wind C5 would use up. But it doesn't take into account A Tomes, so that should be 23 Mag.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, I finally may be on to something, but the conditional new C2 opener definitely hasn't been tested enough to use it in a real attempt.

Anyway, starting attempts pretty quick here at http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, last night was strange. Not as strange as that run with all the misses and Dual Guards, but it's still up there. The first run of the night had a Robin who spend the first three chapters with no more than 7 Def. Somehow, it made it to C4, where I got a bit greedy and started using the Hammer a turn too late. However, even if I had gotten past it, C5 probably would have murdered me because being so far behind Def is not conducive to turtling. Also, beating C3 spawned a Risen on C2's shop, so no forged Flux and no forged Wind.

Aw, well. Nothing died in the earliest chapters, so the game was merely being consistently uncooperative instead of randomly Gamble/Zeal-blicking people.

I also found a reliable-ish solution (depends a bit on enemy Boss and Fighter skillsets as too much damage makes it unviable) for dealing with that freak randomization where, every so often, the Archer will be way out of position on the right just before Robin engages the boss. It basically boils down to engaging the Boss as per normal route A, but having Chrom bait the Archer instead of the Fighter, because being in range of the Fighter will get him mobbed by both the Archer and Fighter. This puts the Fighter 1 tile closer to the Boss, which is enough to start attacking people. During the next PP, the Boss should be 1 tile down and 1 tile right from a Woods tile. If Fred attacks from the left of the Boss and Robin from above, Lissa can safely heal someone from the Woods. The Archer will target Lissa and then, since he's bodyblocked from attacking Lissa, the Fighter will target Robin (which is where damage output comes into play—Robin may still not have enough HP to survive and evasion is an iffy prospect, even with the Bronze Sword). Anyway, that's a little less RNG in C1 now, so yay. Now, if only I can make that supplementary C2 strat's final turn of the first wave work...

[Knusperkeks]

Don't give up hope, I'm cheering for you~!

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yeah, last night had all of three runs. Nothing died before Cht.2, which was pretty nice.

Not as nice as getting past Cht.7, of course.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Don't give up hope, I'm cheering for you~!

Thanks. And don't worry, I'm too committed to give up on this.

Yeah, last night had all of three runs. Nothing died before Cht.2, which was pretty nice.

Not as nice as getting past Cht.7, of course.

Hehe, yeah. Of course, at this point, I'd just be happy to get a decent run past C3. Speaking of which, once I'm done playing with C2, I think I need to look into a right side strat for C3, in case the left side ends up looking like the game tried to throw all the worst stuff possible at me. Granted, last night's runs had pretty disgusting-looking right sides, but I should still have a plan to take advantage of them if their skillsets are particularly favourable. I'd have to deal with 5 enemies to start, so the skillsets would practically have to be begging me to fight that side, but if I can get through it, there's less to deal with in the choke and if I'm doing wave 2 from the right, I can kill Hammer guy early, which allows Fred to provide support sooner than usual.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well, I suppose if Hammertime looks like he's going to be a jerk, you could always just walk all the way over to the RHS after fighting the bottom on the left and go up that way... Sometimes I've actually done that just to get rid of the Knight so there's one less enemy to fight.

Other idea for the top: is there any way trying to pull both sides at once (to get some foes to come around the back) would be useful? You'd be able to fight them in two waves and might be able to separate two dangerous foes, but also wouldn't be able to go in circles forever and would have to kill the side you start on before the back arrives.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

That's a possibility, although, I was moreso thinking of getting rid of Hammer guy if the other guys look like they're going to be jerks. Hammer guy is always going to be a threat to Fred, but if I get rid of him early, Fred can make it safer for Robin to take on the other guys. Pulling both might be an interesting idea. I think I'd mostly want to use it to split up the Archers so that they don't overlap each other, so it'd probably be a niche strat I pull out if both Archers look disgusting (like double Hawkeye/Luna+).

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

So I think my altenative C2 strat is either very, very niche, or shot, because Mountain Barb is a jerk. Basically, I position Robin/Chrom below the left Merc and attack him. 14 Spd is required to make this worthwhile, especially against Patience. However, they only need to land one hit, because Fred/Virion can swing in to the left of the Merc and finish him off. Stahl positions to decoy people off to the right while the others position to pick up people and ferry them left on the next PP. Now, usually the Mountain Barb will attack Robin on the EP, but every so often, he'll decide to run off into the Woods tile where the Merc used to be and fight Fred. This is really bad because if both Soldiers attack him (about 50/50, since the left Soldier will sometimes be an idiot and bodyblock his buddy from the Fort) and any of those three attackers have Luna+ (or the Merc had Vantage+/Luna+), then he'll die. Even if Fred doesn't die, he'll be severely wounded and Mountain Barb has a much lower chance of dying to a Virion Dual Strike than Chrom Dual Striking on one of Robin's (now very likely to hit) attacks.

This jeopardizes the safety of the strat, which is kind of the whole point of having an alternative with conditions. And since I don't have a good way to easily judge how often Mountain Barb will be a jerk, I have no concrete way to measure its chance of failure against Interceptor's strat.

I've started poking at a new strat, based on having only one pair in Mountain Barb's range to absolutely force him to fight Robin while Fred lures the Mercs off to the right. However, this leaves the Soldiers untouched and random movement means they'll sometimes move to encircle my left group (and make trouble for those coming back from the right). While this does set Robin up nicely to just camp the Mountain for the rest of the first wave, this only works at all if there's barely any Hawkeye in the enemy group. The low kill rate at the start also means that if the Mountain tanking isn't viable, trying to play out the scenario traditionally will end with everyone encircled (not to mention that Avoid is still iffy enough that Robin could still take too many hits in one EP).

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, here we go again: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

[Czar_Yoshi]

Wow, such Fred. Very Silver Lance. So DG.

Seriously that run was interesting.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yeah that was pretty strange. I mean, it wasn't even just Dual Guards. There was at least three misses in there too. Fred was just invincible. I plan to work out what parts I need to highlight once I'm done being angry at the C2 Barbarians. The only people who seem to be able to both bait them and live through Luna+ are Vaike and solo Stahl. Even solo Robin and solo Chrom sometimes get ignored in favour of attacking a 17 Def Fred/Virion pair (which they'll do even if it won't secure a kill against Fred). I don't get it.

[Irysa]

It's probably crit chance vs Fred or something?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I don't think they prioritize crit that much, especially since a lot of the sample Barbs didn't have Gamble. But even if they did, since their actual stats don't change, why wouldn't they always target Fred? At first, I thought it had to do with hit rate, but Hawkeye Barbs won't consistently choose a target, either. Even Barbs with the exact same skill sets will choose different targets across several runs.

[Vascela]

Enemy AI is not consistent. I've had the first prologue mage attack Robin over Lissa and vice versa. I don't think there is a specific calculation to the AI. There might be excess "randomness" in the "random" number generator. For whatever the hell that means.