Radiant head Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) But you can get a forge immediately while growing (level and support) takes time. It's not like the Greil Mercenaries are poor. Yeah, but I'm not sure it's a great investment if she only needs it for a very short amount of time before Steel Blades are more than good enough. It's a fine option, but I never found it necessary. I never got the 'Edward has more potential' bit. even at caps he has an entirely massive +1 str, lol. And it's offset by Mia having a +Atk affinity. Sure, Eddie has a few points higher in concrete defenses at cap, but both rely on Avo to be durable anyway. Endgame Edward is not better than Endgame Mia is by any stretch of the imagination. This is to say nothing of how much better she is for the rest of the game, lol. Pretty much. Edited February 27, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Edward is actually very usable for me in hard mode in part 1 except for 1-F. Imo the best first tier unit, if Jill doesn't get any transfer boosts. The only problem is his earlygame. If he doesn't get a speed stat in his first level up, he probably won't double the enemies. If you ask me, his largest problem isn't so much his earlygame, but rather him being overall obsoleted by Zihark as soon as the latter joins, and even more so (as Ether pointed out) by Mia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yeah, but I'm not sure it's a great investment if she only needs it for a very short amount of time before Steel Blades are more than good enough. It'll near always be useful vs tougher enemy types like wyverns or generals, and with vantage, she can critblick on EP sometimes with a critforge. We're not short on cash anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yeah, but I'm not sure it's a great investment if she only needs it for a very short amount of time before Steel Blades are more than good enough. It's a fine option, but I never found it necessary. i literally just said that ike can also share the steel sword forge when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Anybody can be better with forges and support boosts though, can't they? :/ I like Zihark best because he has good growths, good bases, and he starts with a Killing Edge, making him easier to level up. Mia was always painful for me because she starts with weak bases and weak swords. Wo Dao? That thing sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Well it's a good thing she's only stuck with the Wo Dao for two chapters. If you ask me, his largest problem isn't so much his earlygame, but rather him being overall obsoleted by Zihark as soon as the latter joins, and even more so (as Ether pointed out) by Mia. To be fair, I don't think two swordmasters are necessarily redundant, considering that Edward is still a better deployment option than Aran, Meg, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Anybody can be better with forges and support boosts though, can't they? :/ some units see greater improvement with forges than others. for example, oscar is still pretty mediocre with a steel lance forge because he doesn't double (though he does do enough damage with the forge to be usable for chip damage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 And by that time, she's falling behind Ike, Oscar, Titania, Boyd, Gatrie, and Shinon. I never even had any use for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 1.) Forge a Steel Sword for Mia 2.) Give it to Ike once Mia procs +1 or +2 Str and has a support with somebody [Adept will take care of everything else for her] 3.) If it's still there after Ike gets the Ragnell pass it on to somebody like Tanith or Sigrun It's not an expensive investment at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) And by that time, she's falling behind Ike, Oscar, Titania, Boyd, Gatrie, and Shinon. I never even had any use for her. Oscar has crap speed and strength, Titania is good but won't double without a speedwing or bexp abuse, Boyd has awful defense/speed, Gatrie barely moves, and Shinon can't double swordmasters or attack one-range. 1.) Forge a Steel Sword for Mia 2.) Give it to Ike once Mia procs +1 or +2 Str and has a support with somebody [Adept will take care of everything else for her] 3.) If it's still there after Ike gets the Ragnell pass it on to somebody like Tanith or Sigrun It's not an expensive investment at all. I can't see how Ike would need a forge more than Mia though. Aren't Tanith/Sigrun better off sticking with lances? Edited February 27, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 To be fair, I don't think two swordmasters are necessarily redundant, considering that Edward is still a better deployment option than Aran, Meg, etc. I didn't use the word "redundant" though. I know that he's a better deployment option than those you mentioned. But, all-in-all, I don't think the guy's gonna see enough combat to keep himself battle-ready in the grand scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) If you ask me, his largest problem isn't so much his earlygame, but rather him being overall obsoleted by Zihark as soon as the latter joins, and even more so (as Ether pointed out) by Mia. Exactly - if it weren't for the fact that the map after Zihark joins allows you to field everyone, I wouldn't deploy Edward after 1-5 (and I sometimes don't do so in spite of that). Edited February 27, 2015 by Levant Caprice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I can't see how Ike would need a forge more than Mia though. Aren't Tanith/Sigrun better off sticking with lances? Because after a proccing Str and Spd a few times as well as establishing a support with somebody Mia can ORKO pretty much everything you need her two thanks to her high chance of proccing Adept or landing a crit. Ike doesn't have that option and he may need the additional MT of a forged steel sword to ORKO some bulky enemies. Part 3 kind of has a lot of Generals and a couple of them are actually bosses too. Once Ike gets the Ragnell pretty much everybody can exhaust its remaining uses over the rest of the game, Tanith and Sigrun are just the next units that you are somewhat likely to use. Tanith will probably spam horseslayer but Sigrun is kinda bad at fighting and a leftover steel sword forge isn't the worst thing to help her out until she's ready to promote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Oscar has crap speed and strength, Titania is good but won't double without a speedwing or bexp abuse, Boyd has awful defense/speed, Gatrie barely moves, and Shinon can't double swordmasters or attack one-range. I still use them all though, because I like them and they're not THAT bad. Gatrie is a shockingly speedy Marshall, Shinon just wrecks everything regardless of being bow-locked, and Oscar and Titania, while not perfect, are still helpful enough. Oh, and Boyd hits HARD. No room for Mia, who I don't like at all anyway. 1.) Forge a Steel Sword for Mia 2.) Give it to Ike once Mia procs +1 or +2 Str and has a support with somebody [Adept will take care of everything else for her] 3.) If it's still there after Ike gets the Ragnell pass it on to somebody like Tanith or Sigrun It's not an expensive investment at all. Ike doesn't need anything as long as he has Ettard and later Ragnell. Besides Urvan, this is literally all I ever have him use unless I want someone else to get a kill, then I just have him use his Iron Sword to dumb a guy's HP down. I don't use RD's support system since I don't like it. Edited February 27, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Ike doesn't need anything as long as he has Ettard and later Ragnell. Besides Urvan, this is literally all I ever have him use unless I want someone else to get a kill, then I just have him use his Iron Sword to dumb a guy's HP down. Forged Steelies and Silvers are stronger than Ettard is, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) I didn't use the word "redundant" though. I know that he's a better deployment option than those you mentioned. But, all-in-all, I don't think the guy's gonna see enough combat to keep himself battle-ready in the grand scheme of things. Fair enough. I assumed you were implying deploying both Eddy and Zihark would be redundant, and hence you go with the latter who has better bases. Because after a proccing Str and Spd a few times as well as establishing a support with somebody Mia can ORKO pretty much everything you need her two thanks to her high chance of proccing Adept or landing a crit. Ike doesn't have that option and he may need the additional MT of a forged steel sword to ORKO some bulky enemies. Part 3 kind of has a lot of Generals and a couple of them are actually bosses too. Oh that's right. I always have Ike and Mia support each other, so it isn't an issue in my playthroughs, but I forgot Ike won't necessarily have that attack bonus. Honestly I never intended to get that heated about the forge argument. Obviously a forge can always be a huge boon to whoever is using it, and I won't deny that. Edited February 27, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 1.) Forge a Steel Sword for Mia 2.) Give it to Ike once Mia procs +1 or +2 Str and has a support with somebody [Adept will take care of everything else for her] 3.) If it's still there after Ike gets the Ragnell pass it on to somebody like Tanith or Sigrun It's not an expensive investment at all. keep in mind that ana doesn't play on HM and she has the mindset where if she doesn't like it, then it may as well not exist. ike and mia can switch off on the forge. the idea that a specific weapon is dedicated to a specific user is so 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I didn't know this thread was only talking about HM. I never saw this stated anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 They kinda fell off a cliff after at earliest FE6 (where Swordmasters practically broke the game in half). They weren't bad in 7 or 8 because Avoid skyrockets fast, but by 9 they really started struggling. In FE10, the biggest problem Eddie faces is poor bases then becomes the best of them after his growths kick in. Zihark and Mia need less effort but turn out worse overall. Of course, the worst game for them was FE11. No 2 range, no crit boost, low Str and Def and Avoid nerfed to high hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I didn't know this thread was only talking about HM. I never saw this stated anywhere. i never implied that it was. i was offering a partial explanation for the differences between your opinion and mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I have no business lecturing people on how to play the game. I'm arguing under the assumption that a player wants to maximize the utility of a unit while minimizing the amount of effort required to do so and without taking away resouces that other units could make use of. In Hard Mode. To each his own. Oh that's right. I always have Ike and Mia support each other, so it isn't an issue in my playthroughs, but I forgot Ike won't necessarily have that attack bonus. Afaik Ike x Shinon is a pretty popular support combo. They have the same movement and will both often be used against bosses, especially in endgame. Mia can support Boyd which gives her a better bonus on strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Fire-Fire seems unnecessary though. Mia's strength growth and her own fire affinity seems enough, and Boyd with his high strength would probably rather have wind/dark/earth. Maybe water because his defense is so bad (high hp makes up for it, but then practically begs him to be surgically attached to a healer). Edited February 27, 2015 by Radiant head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 They kinda fell off a cliff after at earliest FE6 (where Swordmasters practically broke the game in half). They weren't bad in 7 or 8 because Avoid skyrockets fast, but by 9 they really started struggling. In FE10, the biggest problem Eddie faces is poor bases then becomes the best of them after his growths kick in. Zihark and Mia need less effort but turn out worse overall. Swordmasters broke the game in half? I thought it was just Rutger, but is broken the word for him? I didn't know this thread was only talking about HM. I never saw this stated anywhere. A few of us like taking HM into account when discussing. It's not a way of being all high and mighty, but rather a nice way to set the ground in context to what the game best throws at you. Like, you're not going to call someone like Edward OP because he can god mode EM...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Swordmasters broke the game in half? I thought it was just Rutger, but is broken the word for him? A few of us like taking HM into account when discussing. It's not a way of being all high and mighty, but rather a nice way to set the ground in context to what the game best throws at you. Like, you're not going to call someone like Edward OP because he can god mode EM...... That Crit +30 yo Factor +14 from Capped Skl and +30 from a Killing Edge and crit climbs fast. If you're willing to grind, toss in a couple of +crit supports too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Afaik Ike x Shinon is a pretty popular support combo. They have the same movement and will both often be used against bosses, especially in endgame. Mia can support Boyd which gives her a better bonus on strength.In doing Mia/Boyd, however, you risk missing out on a free Spirit Dust, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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