Best Trueblade?

[Snowy_One]

Your entire playthrough just revolves around Mia and you're unable to see past that. Nephenee can do exactly what Mia does at a lower resource cost with higher result.

Because this isn't about Mia vs. Nephenee. It's about Mia vs. Zihark. Nephenee is pretty solidly better than both all around.

Now obviously what I've just done is shown shear favouritism to Nephenee and highlighted a few points to make Mia look bad, this is exactly what you're doing with Zihark!

There is a massive difference, however, between talking about the various resource allocations and outright ignoring why Mia's innate vantage is important as well as ignoring hard numbers in her support values and the like.

I agree with your case for Mia, to an extent. Someone says "Mia has no offense" and you reply with give her an energy drop which is a fair point...Until the argument for 1-2 range occurs and you suggest giving Mia a mage band for the sonic sword...Well...You only just made up the strength deficit on Mia a moment ago by giving her the energy drop to her which only just "evens" her strength out to Ziharks on average

There is no strength deficit. The difference between Mia and Zihark is ~2-3 ATT post promo with a +4 for Mia for her supports. If anything the deficit is on Zihark's side.

If we give Zihark a strength boosting band, which let's be honest is the only one he needs; he's got a 15% strength growth higher than her with a higher cap as well. Rhys is also...Not an option to make up this strength deficit when Mist outclasses him as do the other Sage's in our party.

Being 'outclassed' by one unit is hardly a reason to ditch Rhys, especially since Rhys does bring something unique to the table and is still very usable come endgame. In fact, if you want to play the 'most units will only be 20/10' card Rhys becomes more valuable because, due to staves, he'll be one of the few 20/20 units. Regardless, Muarim is far inferior on the whole once the late-game comes around and silver weapons become the norm. I don't see how its fair to penalize Mia and remove her Rhys support and say the SS doesn't matter to her because Mist can use the SS better then let Zihark have a Muarim support and Vantage when Nephenee uses it better.

Zihark is going to dodge pretty much everything, As could Mia! Which is why I don't understand the over-emphasis on vantage here?

The issue is that Mia with, say, guard and vantage effectively boosts her EP dodge rate by something like an additional 50 points, potentially far more if given a +crit weapon. But it's also an issue of double-standards. Zihark is allowed to get a vantage (because he uses it best) while Mia getting even Guard is disputed. Zihark is given a Muarim support despite him being poor coming endgame due to cruddy weapons and transform problems while Mia has to fight for Rhys to get fielded because, despite having siege abilities, magic ranged damage (always useful), and the always nice staff usage. Zihark's chance to adept a foe once or twice on the Player Phase is a massive positive point in his favor while Mia's ability to stop a foe in their tracks on every EP is laughed at as people tote Adept's damage... despite no sane person willingly attacking someone who couldn't be 2HKO'ed without another viable option. Tanith rocks with the SS to the point where Mia isn't even in the running... despite that Mia can easily end up tying or surpassing Tanith in MAG even by her joining point. It's a constant battle against whitewashing and hypocrisy with Zihark supporters as they are more than willing to argue every advantage in favor of Zihark and every disadvantage against Mia.

Second, Mia's Strength woes mean that unless I'm fielding and supporting her with an outclassed unit who has rock-bottom durability, she probably won't be killing many enemies with one critical hit. Those, among other reasons, are why I see Zihark as better.

Yet you're willing to deploy Ilyana (who is frail and requires supports with questionable units) and Muarim (who ends up trapped with steel weapons and struggling against the transform meter) in order to bolster Zihark. Fun fact. A demibanded Muarim has only 2 more speed than Rhys and loses an MT battle against a 20/10 Mia, whom you just said is too weak to kill with a X3 damage multiplier. Of course, since Zihark would be tying Mia I'm guessing Zihark can't kill much either.

Check it. Mia at 20/10 has 17 base STR, +4 supports, +13 silver sword +5 forge for a total of 39.

Zihark at 20/10 has 19.55 which I'll round up to 20, +1 support from a B Brom, +13 silver sword, +5 forge for a total of 39.

Muarim at 20/20 has 24 base, +4 demi transform, and +9 weapon for a total of 37.

Of course Mia and Zihark can both grow ten more levels. Muarim is capped out.

This is what I mean. Muarim is okay to deploy with Zihark for his damage when he clocks in at LESS than the other two do ten levels lower than him but Mia has to be punished for her low MT despite having the same as Zihark.

[Junkhead]

Wait, why are you guys talking about their FE9 versions?

Edited November 3, 2015 by Soul o:

[ClLoulD]

Because this isn't about Mia vs. Nephenee. It's about Mia vs. Zihark. Nephenee is pretty solidly better than both all around.

No as I said this is about your entire playthrough revolving around Mia. I was showing we can get a better all around unit for a cheaper cost if you want that kind of build which is why it doesn't seem worth it to invest so much on Mia.

There is a massive difference, however, between talking about the various resource allocations and outright ignoring why Mia's innate vantage is important as well as ignoring hard numbers in her support values and the like.

Rhys is not a valuable support, he's a restart hazard. Ilyana is decent I suppose but not a game changer and won't "Always" be in the vicinity as Mia and no ones inisting on Muarim being in the same chapters as Zihark?

I agree with your case for Mia, to an extent. Someone says "Mia has no offense" and you reply with give her an energy drop which is a fair point...Until the argument for 1-2 range occurs and you suggest giving Mia a mage band for the sonic sword...Well...You only just made up the strength deficit on Mia a moment ago by giving her the energy drop to her which only just "evens" her strength out to Ziharks on average

There is no strength deficit. The difference between Mia and Zihark is ~2-3 ATT post promo with a +4 for Mia for her supports. If anything the deficit is on Zihark's side.

There is no deficit !? http://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/average-stats/zihark/With a strength boosting band (Preferbly Knight or Wyvern but fighter will also work in a pinch) Zihark caps strength by level 20/16-20/17 on average which gets him to level 24 strength. Mia http://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/average-stats/mia/ with her "Mage" band that you argue to give her won't even cap strength by level 20/20 on average and if we give her an energy drop she caps it by 20/17 for a strength level of 22, still two less than Zihark. The Rhys A support does NOT make up this deficit because of;

A) Not being a consistant level of attack boost for Mia

B) Putting Rhys in a vulnerable position where he can be ORKO'd and in need of meatshielding

C) Not actually kicking in until until multiple more chapters down the road

D) Taking up a valuable spot on the team that can easily be filled by someone better than him

And before you go off on one...ZIHARK DOES NOT NEED A MUARIM SUPPORT TO BE USEFUL. Just because we're saying Rhys isn't worth deploying next to Mia every chapter of the game doesn't mean we are going to deploy Muarim for Ziharks sake, although he is a great unit for mid game; much like Rhys is great early game.

Being 'outclassed' by one unit is hardly a reason to ditch Rhys, especially since Rhys does bring something unique to the table and is still very usable come endgame. In fact, if you want to play the 'most units will only be 20/10' card Rhys becomes more valuable because, due to staves, he'll be one of the few 20/20 units. Regardless, Muarim is far inferior on the whole once the late-game comes around and silver weapons become the norm. I don't see how its fair to penalize Mia and remove her Rhys support and say the SS doesn't matter to her because Mist can use the SS better then let Zihark have a Muarim support and Vantage when Nephenee uses it better.

One unit? Soren, Mist, Ilyana and heck even Tormod can do a good job if you sink EXP into him. Let's not pretend Rhys is "Unique" he heals with staves...Has weak magic tombs and can't double. How is he a better unit than the aforementioned units? Specifically Ilyana and Soren. Oh and a 20/20 Rhys...What's the point I mean honestly? He's still just healing with staves...

You always bring up Muarim, no one is saying dont give Mia a Rhys support and give Zihark a Muarim support although it is a much more viable option because he's a solid unit for midgame. Zihark doesn't need a Muarim support, take away the supports and pin them on stats alone and Zihark is the better unit. Zihark doesn't even need a vantage scroll either, he can dodge enough to survive!

Zihark is going to dodge pretty much everything, As could Mia! Which is why I don't understand the over-emphasis on vantage here?

The issue is that Mia with, say, guard and vantage effectively boosts her EP dodge rate by something like an additional 50 points, potentially far more if given a +crit weapon. But it's also an issue of double-standards. Zihark is allowed to get a vantage (because he uses it best) while Mia getting even Guard is disputed. Zihark is given a Muarim support despite him being poor coming endgame due to cruddy weapons and transform problems while Mia has to fight for Rhys to get fielded because, despite having siege abilities, magic ranged damage (always useful), and the always nice staff usage. Zihark's chance to adept a foe once or twice on the Player Phase is a massive positive point in his favor while Mia's ability to stop a foe in their tracks on every EP is laughed at as people tote Adept's damage... despite no sane person willingly attacking someone who couldn't be 2HKO'ed without another viable option. Tanith rocks with the SS to the point where Mia isn't even in the running... despite that Mia can easily end up tying or surpassing Tanith in MAG even by her joining point. It's a constant battle against whitewashing and hypocrisy with Zihark supporters as they are more than willing to argue every advantage in favor of Zihark and every disadvantage against Mia.

Where have I said any of those things? Also Rhys having siege abilities? ...He has 5 uses and the Hammerne could easily be used on any of the other Siege tombs so you can't really play that card. Magic ranged damage we have a ton of users to do that in the aforementioned quote as well as all those units also being able to use staves! That's the issue with using Rhys. Using Rhys instead of any of the other mage users/Mist is like arguing to use Shinon as your bow user when he gets back over Astrid. The Sonic Sword? 20 uses. Useless. Vantage? Useful in some aspects but only if you can get a critical when it actives and that critical is enough to stop an opponent where they stand. I'm also not saying that Adept is a better skill than Vantage, just that I feel Zihark is better in other ways than Skills and forced supports.

Second, Mia's Strength woes mean that unless I'm fielding and supporting her with an outclassed unit who has rock-bottom durability, she probably won't be killing many enemies with one critical hit. Those, among other reasons, are why I see Zihark as better.

Yet you're willing to deploy Ilyana (who is frail and requires supports with questionable units) and Muarim (who ends up trapped with steel weapons and struggling against the transform meter) in order to bolster Zihark. Fun fact. A demibanded Muarim has only 2 more speed than Rhys and loses an MT battle against a 20/10 Mia, whom you just said is too weak to kill with a X3 damage multiplier. Of course, since Zihark would be tying Mia I'm guessing Zihark can't kill much either.

Check it. Mia at 20/10 has 17 base STR, +4 supports, +13 silver sword +5 forge for a total of 39.

Zihark at 20/10 has 19.55 which I'll round up to 20, +1 support from a B Brom, +13 silver sword, +5 forge for a total of 39.

Muarim at 20/20 has 24 base, +4 demi transform, and +9 weapon for a total of 37.

Of course Mia and Zihark can both grow ten more levels. Muarim is capped out.

Muarim doesn't need to be fielded, nor does Brom and of course not Rhys. Zihark would also be wielding a strength boosting band for those levels so really this comes down to...

Mia at 20/10 has 17 base STR + 13 silver sword +5 forge for a total of 35

Zihark at 20/10 has 20 base STR + STR band + 13 silver sword + 5 forge for a total of 38

Giving no one supports here because apparently all those support units suck.

So yeah...That's 6 damage per fight bonus to Zihark and +9 if he uses adept, this number also skyrockets if he manages to land a Crit! as well.. Zihark also holds a +2 strength lead on Mia from level 17 Mymirdon all the way near enough to endgame and this lead increases even higher seen as Snowy forgoes a strength band for a magic band to use the Sonic Sword which I still consider a gimmick weapon for a swordsmaster. Snowy I can also play around with numbers and make things look in Zihark's favour. Giving Mia the strength boosting band will only take her to 18 base strength so she's still going to be below Ziharks strength. Zihark also caps at 24 strength as opposed to Mia's 22 so she's also going to be playing catch up even when they max.

This is what I mean. Muarim is okay to deploy with Zihark for his damage when he clocks in at LESS than the other two do ten levels lower than him but Mia has to be punished for her low MT despite having the same as Zihark.

Yeah just taken Muarim out and errm...Zihark still damages more. Without throwing everything to Mia she's always going to be less powerful than Zihark. Responses are in bold.

Edited November 3, 2015 by ClLoulD

[Shadow Mir]

@Snowy: For your information, I never said anything about Muarim; I think he has his fair share of problems. And while Ilyana may be frail (she gets 39/10 HP/Def at 20/20), it's not like Rhys is much better off with his 39/11 HP/Def, also at 20/20.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Junkhead]

Wait, why are you guys talking about their FE9 versions?

Do I need to repeat myself, or are you guys going to derail this any further?

To mods: I'm not "mini-modding"

[Shadow Mir]

Wait, why are you guys talking about their FE9 versions?

I suppose the whole thing stated thanks to Snowy.

[Radiant head]

Snowy brings up the FE9 Mia vs Zihark thing in every thread. It's just that this time people decided to indulge.

[Junkhead]

Looking at it that way, Mia vs. Zihark is also "a thing" in FE10. They're pretty close in terms being good overall. I think Zihark may be a tad underrated, Mia's pretty good as it is:

- While it's true that Zihark is relatively frail, this can be worked around, thanks to his Earth affinity, great base Spd and Resolve.

- Innate Adept means he can combo it with something like Resolve so he can dodge everything, now mix that up with an Earth support (I like to do VolugxZihark double Earth) and you've got an untouchable killing machine by Part 3. I did this in pretty much every HM run.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Soul o:

[Radiant head]

Yeah I did that, A-support with Volug, and he was great.

I don't really know how to compare him to Mia, because they have entirely different roles in the game.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Zihark is only really useful in part 3 on HM because of the earth-support.

In EM / NM you actually don't need him at all.

[Junkhead]

I don't really know how to compare him to Mia, because they have entirely different roles in the game.

They're both SMs and they fulfill pretty much the same role, except the difficulty's harder for the DBs. I think they're plenty comparable and not that different.

Zihark is only really useful in part 3 on HM because of the earth-support.

In EM / NM you actually don't need him at all.

He 1RKO's pretty consistently in Part 1 and dodges okay-ishly, and that's actually pretty good.

Just because you don't "need him" doesn't mean he can't be good/useful. You don't really need Sothe, Jill and Volug either, but that doesn't mean they aren't geat. =)

[Radiant head]

They're both SMs and they fulfill pretty much the same role, except the difficulty's harder for the DBs. I think they're plenty comparable and not that different.

Obviously we're not using the word "roles" in the same way. The GM and DB chapters involve using totally different strategies which is what I meant. So for example, stuff like Earth affinity ends up having different degrees of importance.

[Snowy_One]

*sigh* I'll be perfectly honest, when I saw your reply I actually closed down my web browser for a moment and basically went 'I can't deal with this right now.' Instead I went off to level up my Mi'qote White Mage for a bit. Almost level 60!

No as I said this is about your entire playthrough revolving around Mia. I was showing we can get a better all around unit for a cheaper cost if you want that kind of build which is why it doesn't seem worth it to invest so much on Mia.

Yea. But you can get TWO units with that set up for the cost that it would take Zihark to get it since he needs both the vantage and wrath skills to match Nephenee's. Meanwhile Neph just needs vantage and Mia just needs wrath to get the same set-up.

Rhys is not a valuable support, he's a restart hazard. Ilyana is decent I suppose but not a game changer and won't "Always" be in the vicinity as Mia and no ones inisting on Muarim being in the same chapters as Zihark?

And this is where I threw up my arms and shut off my browser. Rhys is not a reset hazard. Yes, he's fragile... in about the same way Soren is fragile. Yes, Soren has his evade supports to fall back on and Rhys won't be doubling as much, but without that Ike support Soren is about as durable as Rhys on the whole. Especially since you'll never want to leave either exposed on the EP unless there is no choice. Things like checking enemy ranges and clearing out enemies also factor in as well (which you should be doing both of anyways regardless of who is fielded). Rhys is not a restart hazard.

As for Muarim; here's the thing. Without that support it's not a contest. Mia wins. Vantage dominates EP enemies and the player should never have either attack a foe they can't kill with a double in the first place; not to mention Mia joins earlier and is a more flexible SM. So Zihark's only real edge is that Muarim support. A support that actually IS potentially hurting the team since it means deploying a unit who either can't fight half the time or using a one-of-a-kind band always on him. At least with the mage band it can be shuffled around when spending BEXP. Muarim needs the demi all the time.

There is no deficit !? http://serenesforest...e-stats/zihark/With a strength boosting band (Preferbly Knight or Wyvern but fighter will also work in a pinch) Zihark caps strength by level 20/16-20/17 on average which gets him to level 24 strength.

The +STR bands are, unquestionably, the most/second most valuable bands with only the +SPD potentially being more valuable. I don't see how Zihark can be given one of these bands in the slightest then turn around and shame Mia for wanting a band that is in 'low demand' at best WITHOUT it being called hypocrisy. Heck, it can be argued that even SOREN is in competition for the bands since the boost helps him get the points to use his tomes without loss in the early game as well as use the heavier tomes better. There is no way to spin it so that Mia gets punished for using the mage band while Zihark gets a +STR band.

Mia http://serenesforest...rage-stats/mia/ with her "Mage" band that you argue to give her won't even cap strength by level 20/20 on average and if we give her an energy drop she caps it by 20/17 for a strength level of 22, still two less than Zihark. The Rhys A support does NOT make up this deficit because of;

Firstly, it's Mage band, not "Mage" band. And secondly, it really doesn't matter. The + bands basically, in a nutshell, give a unit +1 stat per tier, or 0.5 per 10 levels. Mia already beats Zihark when he's capped. Making him cap out sooner doesn't change that by much. Especially since it's +4, not +3, unless you forgot Ilyana was there.

A) Not being a consistant level of attack boost for Mia

Keeping a unit in support range is fairly easy so long as they don't vary drastically in movement (paring a flyer with a general for example). Keeping Rhys in range of Mia is no harder than keeping Soren in range of Ike. Especially since Rhys doesn't have to ride her ass but only has to be in 3 spaces of her.

B) Putting Rhys in a vulnerable position where he can be ORKO'd and in need of meatshielding

Negated by using basic game mechanics and tactics. This is, literally, only a problem if your entire strategy is to just bum-rush in with 0 thought and not even use the range-check function or bother killing foes on the player phase. At that point it's questionable why you're deploying anything that's not a mounted unit.

C) Not actually kicking in until until multiple more chapters down the road

That STR band won't really kick in for several levels. A Rhys/Mia has A-ranked around 19. Heck, the C-rank, IIRC, finishes more or less when Zihark joins.

D) Taking up a valuable spot on the team that can easily be filled by someone better than him

This is a myth. Rather, a logical fallacy as this will apply to every unit NOT in the top few percentile of the tiers. In the EG Rhys is the only healer until Mist joins, the best healer until Mist promotes, and the sages have to work their staff-rank up, so he'll still be a better healer than them for quite a bit. There is no reason to claim this beyond pure spite; especially since the same can apply to Mist (weak, requires supports to fight, frail, only good with the SS).

And before you go off on one...ZIHARK DOES NOT NEED A MUARIM SUPPORT TO BE USEFUL. Just because we're saying Rhys isn't worth deploying next to Mia every chapter of the game doesn't mean we are going to deploy Muarim for Ziharks sake, although he is a great unit for mid game; much like Rhys is great early game.

Then it's over and Mia wins.

One unit? Soren, Mist, Ilyana and heck even Tormod can do a good job if you sink EXP into him. Let's not pretend Rhys is "Unique" he heals with staves...Has weak magic tombs and can't double. How is he a better unit than the aforementioned units? Specifically Ilyana and Soren. Oh and a 20/20 Rhys...What's the point I mean honestly? He's still just healing with staves...

The sages start with an E in staves! Even if you were to focus them entirely on healing it would take several chapters for them to reach a C for the physic staves. As for 'weak magic bombs' Rhys deals 34 with a BASIC light tome and Mia support. That's as much as an unsupported 20/20 Tormod wielding FORGED thunder! Sure, he won't double as much... unless you INSIST that most units will only reach about 20/10 by the endgame unless they have staves at which point he's about on-par with the paladins in terms of AS and would be pretty much on-par with the sages at 20/10. Granted, the sages should be tapping into the EXP from staves and hit 20/20 (22 EXP per turn with potentially more? YES!), but if you're gonna push the '20/10 is the endgame average' than there is no way you can push Rhys's magic being weak.

And before you say it, yes, I know Tormod can get +5 from supports. The point is that Rhys can still potentially do as well as Tormod in the first place. If forging light tomes wasn't so expensive...

Where have I said any of those things? Also Rhys having siege abilities? ...He has 5 uses and the Hammerne could easily be used on any of the other Siege tombs so you can't really play that card.

Find me a point in the game where having less siege tomes is a bad thing. You can't. Because it doesn't exist. Even if you Hammerine those siege tomes being able to have more siege is good. Also, those things have 5 freaking uses! Why is it okay to discount Rhys's siege ability because you can hammerine a 5-use (technically 4-use since it would break on the final shot) but then say Mia couldn't possibly get one Hammerine for the 25 use SS? Literally one use on the SS gives you far more weapon uses than any amount of siege tome repair could do.

Magic ranged damage we have a ton of users to do that in the aforementioned quote as well as all those units also being able to use staves!

All five of them. Including Rhys and discounting Bastion because lol-Bastion. Mist doesn't count because the only way she can attack magic is with the magical weapons and, at that point, every unit in the game that's not a laguz is a magic attacker.

The Sonic Sword? 20 uses. Useless.

25. And if the SS is useless than Rhys trumps Mist on account of actually being able to attack, at 2-range no less, while Mist is stuck with a pathetic 16 STR and FAR more support-dependent than Mia in combat.

Vantage? Useful in some aspects but only if you can get a critical when it actives and that critical is enough to stop an opponent where they stand. I'm also not saying that Adept is a better skill than Vantage, just that I feel Zihark is better in other ways than Skills and forced supports.

Like being weaker than Mia because he has bad offensive supports, being less flexible than Mia, and potentially a bigger resource sink than Mia if he wants to be anything other than vantage/adept. Yup. Good going Zihark.

Muarim doesn't need to be fielded, nor does Brom and of course not Rhys. Zihark would also be wielding a strength boosting band for those levels so really this comes down to...

There is no way in heck Zihark is getting a STR band if giving even remotely useful to Mia is 'favoring her'. Even items no one else really wants like the Guard scroll.

Giving no one supports here because apparently all those support units suck.

Except for the fact that they don't outside of contriving things to Zihark's favor.

Snowy I can also play around with numbers and make things look in Zihark's favour.

When you can't even get the number of uses that the SS has by fact-checking the site right, I doubt it. It's been long enough that I don't recall 100% if the SS was 20 or 25, but not only do I have faith in the sites staff to be able to compile at least a semi-accurate list of weapon stats, but a failure to double check something like that using the site material is simply... wrong. Especially when you DID use the site material in your own arguments.

See. This is the big problem with Zihark supporters. They see only one angle, one possible way to play, and one hypocritical reason as to why Zihark is better than Mia. Rhys is so frail that even fielding him is a reset hazard, but Ilyana is just fine supporting Zihark for extra EVA. Giving Mia a mage band, magic dust, or anything is an 'alarming amount of resources', but giving Zihark a STR band, vantage, wrath, or guard is A-okay. Finding a non-hypocritical Zihark supporter is like finding a unicorn in my eyes. They don't exist.

[ClLoulD]

I facepalmed too hard I'm not even going to bother arguing anymore.

Snowy Logic

Mia - Use Mage band/energy drop/spirit dust/Rhys A support/Wrath scroll (Which has Ike's name on it for hard mode anyway)/Sonic Sword

Zihark - Can't have one of the three strength boosting bands, too in demand.

Yet Zihark supporters are hypocrite's. Mind = BLOWN!

[Junkhead]

Obviously we're not using the word "roles" in the same way. The GM and DB chapters involve using totally different strategies which is what I meant. So for example, stuff like Earth affinity ends up having different degrees of importance.

Yeah, it appears so. I apologize. 8P

I actually think Zihark *could* be better than Mia, given the things that I said. Since their difficulty is harder, they actually need a strong Routing character (you know, since it doesn't HAVE to be Jill 100% of the time). Zihark's a potential candidate for that (along with Nolan). Resolve + Double Earth fixes his durability issues and makes him virtually untouchable. Resolve Mode Zihark with B support Nolan/Volug is looking at 136 Avo, a crapton a Adept activation and you can mix that in for some extra Crit./Astra procs. It's freaking nuts. For reference, the enemies with highest Hit are Bishops and a Killing Edge SM, they don't even reach 150 Hit. That's less than 14 displayed Hit on Zihark...

[Shadow Mir]

Finding a non-hypocritical Zihark supporter is like finding a unicorn in my eyes. They don't exist.

Pot calling the kettle black much?

[bookwormbabe29]

Well, this seems like a dicey topic... let's see if a 'new' perspective helps any (I'm the one doing the 'my first run' topic)

Off the bat, I'm going to say Lucia and Stefen lose out from lack of availability. Lucia gets the worst of it, and Stefen comes ready to fight (especially if you count his blade) he's better than Lucia, but he's not as good as a unit you've been training yourself.

That leaves Edward, Zihark, and Mia. Mia scores well with good starting level stats, and scores good availability as well with Ike's team. She also can get transfer bonus, which Edward cannot, which gives her even more of an edge. Edward starts out weak in part 1, and has a lot of potential, but he does require baby sitting to reach that potential. Worse, the Dawn Brigade doesn't get as many 'high end' enemies/chapters as Mia does, so it's much harder for him to get to the higher levels. Zihark is an odd mix of this, getting good starting stats, some early stages with Dawn brigade, and has the option of switching to Ike's team to gain more experience. He can also benefit from transfer bonus' as well. In my mind, he is essentially getting the best benefits of Mia and Edward, as he can replace either Mia or Edward without much trouble.

Things look good for Zihark so far. Also in his favor are the caps, as Fire Emblem still angers me with different caps for different genders. Zihark gets more attack and defense than Mia. And with him being an Earth affinity, which gives him an amazing advantage to have the highest avoid rate too. So really, Zihark can hit as hard or harder, take as many hits or more, and avoid more often.

Add in skills, and Zihark still looks good. While all three have decent skills, having a no cost Adept as well as Astra gives a lot of killing options. Wrath and Vantage are more situatational (only low health, or only when attacked) which are situations you generally want to avoid. Extra attacks is always useful.

So while I adore Mia and would take her first by character design, I think by mechanics Zihark wins for the title of best. He can do everything the others can do (sometimes even better than they can) while no one else can match his avoid rate or his free Adept scroll.

And while no on on the internet needs to believe me, in my many runs of PoR, I've never used Zihark, always using Mia instead. Playing RD, I've found more respect for Zihark, Ilyana, and Brom, who all do amazing for me so far in RD, but I've never fielded in PoR.

tl;dr My list would be:

In terms of liking characters: Mia, Stefen/Zihark (tie), Edward, Lucia

In terms of mechanics: Zihark, Mia, Stefen, Edward, Lucia

I like Edward, and I feel bad I can't rate him higher (especially since I did baby him thinking to use for a final team) but I feel he suffers from not having enough time with high level enemies to reach his potential without specifically training him over all others, which isn't reasonable when there are so many others units statistically better for said time. Edward has six stages to shine before Zihark shows up, and SOME of that time should be going to Micaiah so you don't have a frail commander. That point on, Zihark does everything he does but better for the Dawn Brigdade.

Just my two cents.

[Radiant head]

I'm tempted to switch my vote Zihark. I prefer Mia more for superficial reasons than gameplay. Although she is way better in Part 4. Especially when paired with Ike.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Radiant head

[Junkhead]

I think Mia's only marginally better overall, and it's only because she has better Str and 'dat support with Ike, yeah. They're a lot closer than I thought.

[Augestein]

I facepalmed too hard I'm not even going to bother arguing anymore.

Snowy Logic

Mia - Use Mage band/energy drop/spirit dust/Rhys A support/Wrath scroll (Which has Ike's name on it for hard mode anyway)/Sonic Sword

Zihark - Can't have one of the three strength boosting bands, too in demand.

Yet Zihark supporters are hypocrite's. Mind = BLOWN!

You forgot to add Ilyana B support for extra defense and attack, the runesword, both killing edges, the Vague Katti, and all of the uses of the Hammerene staff. Clearly she's better with less effort.