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Erik Twice

So...where's all the incest?

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One of the first things I heard about Genealogy of the Holy War's plot was the apparent abundance of incest but after beating the game, I can't actually think of that many instances of it on my playthrough:

- Alvis and Dreide are half-siblings

- Claude and Sylvia are hinted to be siblings, though I think that ,oficially, they are not.

- Elsthan and Lachesis' relationship isn't explored in depth in the game, but given Lachesis partner tells her "He knows" on the last chapter, it's seriously hinted. Is there any information on treasure books or anything about this? I'm really curious.

So that's three, which is still a lot. But you can pair first cousins like Shannan and Lackhe, right? So I guess that if that counts there's far more incest in the game.

Thoughts? Anything I'm missing?

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Holyn and Ayra are implied to be distant cousins, since both have minor Odo blood. If you pair Lex/Ayra then Lakche and Johan/Johalva become first cousins. It's also possible to pair Seliph and Yulia, who are half-siblings. Claude/Sylvia are implied to be siblings somewhere, but I can't recall where. Ares/Nanna are cousins and they can be paired up.

Edited by Lord Raven

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Incest isn't even that bad if it only spans one or two generations anyway...

I keep hearing people mention this whole deal too but I honestly haven't picked up on too much of it either, and I haven't even played the game.

Especially since much of it is seemingly optional anyway...

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Yeah I think it's not so much there's a lot of incest, but the bad guy's master plan revolves around incest.

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with that said, you can't remove incest from the game without leaving a massive plothole.

which is pretty much this.

You could probably blag that Deirdre and Alvis are distant cousins or like the last two carriers from two distant branches.

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I don't think Julia/Celice counts because they have a negative lover growth, so they were never intended to be pairable. Elthsan/Lachesis is implied by a villager, but the Ch5 conversation between Lachesis and Beowulf could also refer to Fin.

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You can also pair Lana/Faval and Lester/Patty who's mothers are twins so it's a weird cousin/half-sibling thing going on there

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I don't think Julia/Celice counts because they have a negative lover growth, so they were never intended to be pairable. Elthsan/Lachesis is implied by a villager, but the Ch5 conversation between Lachesis and Beowulf could also refer to Fin.

I learned about that yesterday and honestly I am disappointed. Here I was trying to pair them up since the last two chapters and then I learn that they have a negative lover growth. -.-

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@Mekkah: "Never inteded to be pairable", you say? Isn't there development history somewhere on this very site stating that, in earlier drafts of the game, the exact opposite of that was planned (by which I mean that they were supposed to be a set pairing)?

@Dirge: It is actually possible to pair them through an exploit or two, if I'm not mistaken. The one with the jealousy system is the big one. Though, I heard that if you do that Seliph's paired ending becomes "Seliph and his wife Julia, assisted by Julia".

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I don't think Julia/Celice counts because they have a negative lover growth, so they were never intended to be pairable. Elthsan/Lachesis is implied by a villager, but the Ch5 conversation between Lachesis and Beowulf could also refer to Fin.

Oh, true! I didn't think of it from that angle. It's incredible how much backstory Kaga and his team created and didn't end up in the game.

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Claude/Sylvia have some conversations that hint the possibility of brother & sister incest.

IIRC Corple and Leen don't know they are siblings too, so they could also keep it in the family, I dunno.

Also the whole Alvis shenanigangstas

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I don't think Julia/Celice counts because they have a negative lover growth, so they were never intended to be pairable. Elthsan/Lachesis is implied by a villager, but the Ch5 conversation between Lachesis and Beowulf could also refer to Fin.

The Ares/Nanna lover conversation does confirm that Raquesis had a thing for Eldigan, though-- especially given the essence of that conversation is "LOL Mom should've kept it in the family but I'm not gonna make her mistakes!" In between the plot-mandated incest, Raquesis and Eldigan, the implied blood relationship between Sylvia and Claude, and all the Gen2 predestined cousin pairings it's rather a lot of circular family trees presented to the player as options.

Not to mention the psychological incest like Arion/Altena.

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IIRC Corple and Leen don't know they are siblings too, so they could also keep it in the family, I dunno.

Although they don't know, and do seem to have a slight attraction to each other in their +1 luck sibling convo, they are incapsble of falling in love because they have the same lock enabled as all of the siblings who know about each other.

The Ares/Nanna lover conversation does confirm that Raquesis had a thing for Eldigan, though-- especially given the essence of that conversation is "LOL Mom should've kept it in the family but I'm not gonna make her mistakes!"

For reference, here is the text of the actual convo:

Nanna:

“Aless, take it easy out here. You still have a monumental task awaiting you.”

Aless:

“I haven’t forgotten, believe me. I’ve no intention of dying in this war. I will not rest until Agustria has attained the glory my father envisioned for it.”

Nanna:

“I know you can do it, Aless. Your father would be so proud of you…”

Aless:

“But I can’t do it alone, Nanna. I need you.”

Nanna:

“Of course, Aless. My life is yours. I’m not making the same mistake my mother did.”

Aless:

“What… his own sister fell in love with him?”

Nanna:

“Yes… she did. But it’s not all that strange, really. They had different mothers.”

Aless:

“Hey, that reminds me. You and I are cousins, aren’t we…”

Nanna:

“Yeah, that’s right. Hehehe…”

Oh. Wow. That's all I can say here.

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For reference, here is the text of the actual convo:

Nanna:

“Aless, take it easy out here. You still have a monumental task awaiting you.”

Aless:

“I haven’t forgotten, believe me. I’ve no intention of dying in this war. I will not rest until Agustria has attained the glory my father envisioned for it.”

Nanna:

“I know you can do it, Aless. Your father would be so proud of you…”

Aless:

“But I can’t do it alone, Nanna. I need you.”

Nanna:

“Of course, Aless. My life is yours. I’m not making the same mistake my mother did.”

Aless:

“What… his own sister fell in love with him?”

Nanna:

“Yes… she did. But it’s not all that strange, really. They had different mothers.”

Aless:

“Hey, that reminds me. You and I are cousins, aren’t we…”

Nanna:

“Yeah, that’s right. Hehehe…”

Oh. Wow. That's all I can say here.

The Ares/Nanna lover conversation does confirm that Raquesis had a thing for Eldigan, though-- especially given the essence of that conversation is "LOL Mom should've kept it in the family but I'm not gonna make her mistakes!" In between the plot-mandated incest, Raquesis and Eldigan, the implied blood relationship between Sylvia and Claude, and all the Gen2 predestined cousin pairings it's rather a lot of circular family trees presented to the player as options.

Not to mention the psychological incest like Arion/Altena.

Holy **** you weren't kidding or exaggerating. :lol:

Edited by Lyon's Dirge

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Although they don't know, and do seem to have a slight attraction to each other in their +1 luck sibling convo, they are incapsble of falling in love because they have the same lock enabled as all of the siblings who know about each other.

True that, although the subtext is there

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Speaking of psychological incest, weren't Leif and Nanna practically raised together by Finn and, for a certain amount of time, Raquesis while in hiding? And Leif and Nanna are heavily implied to the point of "nothing else needs to be said", aren't they?

Though, I find it particularly funny how when it comes to the "raised together" type Alm and Celica were already a thing before FE4.

Edited by RedEyedDrake

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Speaking of psychological incest, weren't Leif and Nanna practically raised together by Finn and, for a certain amount of time, Raquesis while in hiding? And Leif and Nanna are heavily implied to the point of "nothing else needs to be said", aren't they?

Though, I find it particularly funny how when it comes to the "raised together" type Alm and Celica were already a thing before FE4.

Leif and Nanna were totally raised together. Allow me to quote from FE5:

Mareeta:

“Go on, Lady Nanna! Just say it!”

Nanna:

“B-But…”

Mareeta:

“You’ll regret it forever if you don’t say it now. Or do you just want to stay as his ‘cute little sister’?”

Nanna:

“But Mareeta…”

Mareeta:

“Come on, Lady Nanna! I know, I’ll help you out!

Lord Leaf!”

[A few sentences later...]

Leaf:

“We grew up like brother and sister, but you were always the one helping me. I was able to come this far because you were always there for me, to support me and cheer me up. Nanna, once this war ends, I’ll go look for Lachesis as well. And when I find her, I’m going to ask her directly…for your hand, Nanna…”

Case closed with those two. It's deliberate and apparently it's meant to be cute and sweet, not wtf.

As for Alm and Celica I thought they were just cute childhood friends but the DLC in FE13 really rammed home that this was a Leif&Nanna thing with sibling-type closeness leading to marriage.

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Claude/Sylvia are implied to be siblings somewhere, but I can't recall where.

IIRC, it was a predestined pairing conversation between Claude and Sylvia. Where Claude's bringing up his sister and drawing some parallels between her and Sylvia.

Anyways, I think the notion of Claude and Sylvia being siblings was jossed by Word of God. If anything, they're cousins like Holyn and Ayra.

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IIRC, it was a predestined pairing conversation between Claude and Sylvia. Where Claude's bringing up his sister and drawing some parallels between her and Sylvia.

Anyways, I think the notion of Claude and Sylvia being siblings was jossed by Word of God. If anything, they're cousins like Holyn and Ayra.

Not 100% sure on the jossing. If you mean this family tree as the Word of God in question, I believe it's a fan creation using a synthesis of information from different sources-- the games, art books, etc-- and therefore isn't technically Word of God. Some of the information on there is outright labeled as an educated guess, anyway.

Clarification is welcome if anyone knows for certain!

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I'd say there is just no way that Sylvia was not at least intended to be Claude's sister. Not only does the game deliberately draw that parallel in the first place but they just so happen to share the same age and the same family. Also, Claude's sister was kidnapped when she was still a baby, which matches up rather nicely with Sylvia's background of being an orphan.

Edited by BrightBow

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There are two main sources for the family tree, besides the designer's notes, dialogue and stuff.

I'm lazy to find the scans or drag out my scanner, so these terrible phone pics will have to do: Download zip

The family tree with Japanese text is from the newer 20th Anniversary Encyclopedia, while the one with English text is from the FE: Treasure.

Some notes: The 20th Anniversary Encyclopedia suggests Claude's sister and Sylvia are separate people. Also, it clarifies the Odo family tree (although we already knew from FE5 that Shanan and Galzus are cousins).

Meanwhile the family tree in Treasure is interesting in that it shows deceased(?) family members.

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Some notes: The 20th Anniversary Encyclopedia suggests Claude's sister and Sylvia are separate people. Also, it clarifies the Odo family tree (although we already knew from FE5 that Shanan and Galzus are cousins).

Meanwhile the family tree in Treasure is interesting in that it shows deceased(?) family members.

Or disinherited ones. Some of those branches off Viktor are highly suspicious. What it doesn't show is Quan's dead sister so I guess she hadn't been invented yet.

Thanks for the clarification on what the 20th Anniversary book implies, as I felt the same way as BrightBow above-- why even GO there if it wasn't intentional?

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