Moishe Oofnik Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Frozen thread = Xator has to post something. Here are my thoughts on it. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2294629/board/thread/238474572 Here are Doug Walker's thoughts on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBxLPoPNMM Here are the Unshaved Mouse's thoughts on it. http://unshavedmouse.com/2014/10/09/disney-review-with-the-unshaved-mouse-53-frozen/ Here are Kyle Kallgren's thoughts on it (skip to minute 4:40) http://blip.tv/play/AYOZ6XEC PBS's thoughts on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVscW9LEMp0 (and a text response to that video that adds a lot of interesting things about the film) http://www.reddit.com/r/Frozen/comments/2caq4k/of_frozens_popularity_a_response_to_why_were/ JesuOtaku from AnimeNewsNetwork gives her thoughts on it. https://twitter.com/JesuOtaku/status/405572239111630848 https://twitter.com/JesuOtaku/status/405572464907796480 https://twitter.com/JesuOtaku/status/405572674971107328 https://twitter.com/JesuOtaku/status/405572950708867073 https://twitter.com/JesuOtaku/status/405573239784484864 https://twitter.com/JesuOtaku/status/405573816178327552 https://twitter.com/JesuOtaku/status/405573918750015488 Zac Bertschy from AnimeNewsNetwork gives his thoughts on it. https://twitter.com/ANNZac/status/405572259915366400 https://twitter.com/ANNZac/status/405572475477454848 https://twitter.com/ANNZac/status/405572661398360064 https://twitter.com/ANNZac/status/405574452030607360 https://twitter.com/ANNZac/status/405575946565976064 And more thoughts from the general audience. https://www.reddit.com/r/Frozen/comments/31y0q9/why_frozen_is_a_masterpiece_to_you/ You are not here to post positive opinions you are here to post your opinion also link a frozen sub reddit and then saying general audience is like going to the room sub reddit and saying the room is amazing it doesnt prove anypoint Also Opinions Opinions Opinions and well... like you dug up some positive reviews I can just dig to the same degree negative reviews also the reddit comment on the PBS video was just bad we all knew why frozen sold Soundtrack Good trailer 7 months of prime time theater run alot of marketing not any good and sincere story Let it go is firework by katy parry and IMHO the worst song on the soundtrack the cinematography is pretty cool HTTYD2 Lego Movie have better cinematography but they are better films for me frozen is a 6/10 or a C+ its decent nothing great but nothing too bad it really comes off if you liked the comic relief (which I despised) and Ignore alot of the character flaws presented in the film your movie sucks did a great evaluation of frozen from the point of not explaining anything to you apart from like really basic stuff like She has ice magic or like minor cliches like Only true love can heal a broken heart And my last complaint Elsa's character arc is crappy she has trauma she is supposed to be a broken character and let it go like says FUCK THAT SHIT DRESSES TO SELL let it go is a rushed song that comes way to early into the story a broken character can always be repaired a big amount and discover her full potencial by singing! Lowering your standards for kids movies sickens me your calling it a kid version of a movie which for me is like it has flaws but many kid movies have that flaws so Ima give it a pass Edited April 26, 2015 by Moishe Oofnik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xator Nova Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) You are not here to post positive opinions you are here to post your opinion also link a frozen sub reddit and then saying general audience is like going to the room sub reddit and saying the room is amazing it doesnt prove anypoint Also Opinions Opinions Opinions and well... like you dug up some positive reviews I can just dig to the same degree negative reviews also the reddit comment on the PBS video was just bad we all knew why frozen sold Soundtrack Good trailer 7 months of prime time theater run alot of marketing not any good and sincere story the first link included my opinion, lol edit: films dont stay in theater for that long if they dont sell, so you got the "7 months of prime time theater" the other way around since it is not the reason why it sold, but rather the consequence of being popular :V the trailer sucked, xD there are other films with a good soundtrack that dont achieve the same level of success, mind you And my last complaint Elsa's character arc is crappy she has trauma she is supposed to be a broken character and let it go like says FUCK THAT SHIT DRESSES TO SELL let it go is a rushed song that comes way to early into the story a broken character can always be repaired a big amount and discover her full potencial by singing! Lowering your standards for kids movies sickens me your calling it a kid version of a movie which for me is like it has flaws but many kid movies have that flaws so Ima give it a pass Did Elsa become repaired completely once she sang Let it Go? Does suddenly the part where she breaks down again when Anna tells her that Arendelle is Frozen disappear and falls into despair? Which flaws? Other than some animation mistakes, I dont see narrative flaws. I am not lowering my standards for kids movies, xD. Edited April 26, 2015 by Xator Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) the first link included my opinion, lol edit: films dont stay in theater for that long if they dont sell, so you got the "7 months of prime time theater" the other way around since it is not the reason why it sold, but rather the consequence of being popular :V the trailer sucked, xD there are other films with a good soundtrack that dont achieve the same level of success, mind you You ever learnt about marketing the trailer was sold for young girls which the trailer succeeded in You learn that its soundtrack B8 soundtrack Bait Frozen had heavy marketing for the young audience a movie cant be good if no one saw it so people see it via marketing $67,391,326 This is the amount frozen grossed on its 1st week pretty big amount especially for that time of year sure its not avengers or harry pooper who sold alot in all there 3 months but have discontinued their airing after those 3 months while frozen at least where I live continued for 4 MORE AVATAR WAS there for less time Frozen built up hype also movies that have good soundtracks that sold alot of moneys Star wars I LOTR POTC Alice in Burtonland the first link included my opinion, lol edit: films dont stay in theater for that long if they dont sell, so you got the "7 months of prime time theater" the other way around since it is not the reason why it sold, but rather the consequence of being popular :V the trailer sucked, xD there are other films with a good soundtrack that dont achieve the same level of success, mind you Did Elsa become repaired completely once she sang Let it Go? Does suddenly the part where she breaks down again when Anna tells her that Arendelle is Frozen disappear and falls into despair? Which flaws? Other than some animation mistakes, I dont see narrative flaws. I am not lowering my standards for kids movies, xD. Are you really a movie critic Visuals are an entirely different rating department then Narrative Also did I say elsa was completely repaired NO. I said that from years of being locked down with only being brought food and nothing else you dont just sing a song and become repaired to a very good degree did you see castaway (a much better film) you go into a meltdown she was like outside ran for 5 minutes sang a song and was happy until her sister gave her VERY VERY BAD NEWS its like saying WOW I am finally over that trauma of bees 30 minutes later Your mom was killed by bees You dont have a point you have an idea People cant just brush off insanely stressful moments in a song thats not human Edited April 26, 2015 by Moishe Oofnik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xator Nova Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 You ever learnt about marketing the trailer was sold for young girls which the trailer succeeded in You learn that its soundtrack B8 soundtrack Bait Frozen had heavy marketing for the young audience a movie cant be good if no one saw it so people see it via marketing $67,391,326This is the amount frozen grossed on its 1st week pretty big amount especially for that time of year Frozen built up hype also movies that have good soundtracks that sold alot of moneys Star wars I LOTR POTC Alice in Burtonland yes, the trailer succeded on it, but by that logic it should have the same level of success than the likes of despicable me 2 or the lego movie, which it doesnt. once the initial hype is over, there must be an explanation regarding the quality of the work so that people keep coming back for so long other than pure marketing strategies. staying at the peak of the box office during four months is something most commercial films cant claim to have achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) 7 months in theater with heavy marketing THATS HOW YOU DO IT you have figured out the question of the decade WHAT DO WE HAVE TO THE WINNER JOHNNY how did you not realize that DOUBLE LIAR LIAR REFERENCE OH AND MOAR REASONS: A.Lego movie and despicable me are not by disney B.If we gave despicable me 2 3 extra months like frozen had it would had sold moar C.Blue sky studios are not very pushy with there marketing and the lego movie didnt have a huge amount of marketing Box office: 1.Frozen 1,3 Billion Dollars 2.Despicable me 2 1 Billion Dollars 3.Lego movie 500 Million Dollars And despicable me had alot more competition due to coming out in the summer it had slightly weaker dominance then Iron man 3 I dont hate frozen If Id find my old review Where I rated it 63/100 Ill post it here (the +0.3 is for like some fantastic snow movement) I find it a decent enjoyable movie not a classic and I cant really compare frozen to the pinnacle of 2013 Edited April 26, 2015 by Moishe Oofnik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicBeat Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Problems with frozen: 1.Lack of characterization:Hans and Even Elsa suffer from lack of characterization for example in Elsa's case this is what I know about her character: I am a princess who got magic and I got locked down in my room for no good reason AND I CARE FOR MY SISTER who taunted me for years 2.Comic Relief Animals are fun!:THE DEER and Olaf are just used for comic relief for kids but humor is subjective but I was not entertained 3.Lack of clarification of Elsa's powers:What are they exactly we know its ice but how can ice bring snow to life TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS 4.Lack of a colorful aesthetic: Frozen's actual strong point is its visuals who are really impressive but its really lacking in the color department because we are set in snow unlike tangled we wont usually get out of the colors blue white and light blue and lots of whiiiiiiiite 5.Trying to create a villain because disney cant deal without having a villain:Hans is useless ABSOLUTE useless he is the bad guy because disney needed one even if its not needed The save was such b8 it wasn't even impressive because it didn't feel natural it felt shoe horned Kristoff as a character feels shoe horned so I was not suprised I thought it was just critic b8 like dieing in a movie The process of my thought btw from the 1st watch: Oh Hans has to have some connection to the story but he wont save her he had little to do in the plot Kristoff? no they didn't really build what characters are left mabye elsa or if we really pushing it olaf? Lilo and stitch has some of the greatest execution of all animation in portraying the Lilo and her sister relationship in the narrative but the stitch part of lilo and stitch is pretty meh and dull I find issues with a few of your points. on point one, if any character experienced any sort of character development and actually went somewhere, it's Elsa. Her development is actually rather surprising. People think for some strange reason that her development stops with "Let it Go," but this sequence is when her development actually starts. She goes from keeping her issues contained due to guilt and shame, to proudly telling the world to fuck off, then promptly is brought down from that when reality comes to her in the form of Anna, and finally learns that instead of concealing, she should be embracing who she is and loving herself and all those around her. as far as point three, the plot doesn't care where her powers come from. it's inconsequential, because the movie is not about them directly. it's about Elsa's struggle with controlling them. it would have been nice to know why she was born with those powers, I suppose, but ultimately it would have just served to muddle the themes of the movie. the movie works better without an elaboration on them, because they would have just served to distract from the points the movie wanted to make. and point 5, Hans wasn't even the bad guy, at least not the main bad guy. the bad guy was Elsa, albeit an incredibly unconventional one for Disney's standards. Hans was a plot device, needed to push the plot towards its climax, which ultimately was about whether Elsa's and Anna's sisterly bond was strong enough so that one would willingly sacrifice their life for the other. there was issues with how Hans was handled, and these issues can almost certainly be attributed to the tons of rewrites this movie experienced throughout its development, but overall, considering that the movie was trying to buck trends in their Disney Princess, it was ok. the third act of the movie was definitely the weakest part of the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) I find issues with a few of your points. on point one, if any character experienced any sort of character development and actually went somewhere, it's Elsa. Her development is actually rather surprising. People think for some strange reason that her development stops with "Let it Go," but this sequence is when her development actually starts. She goes from keeping her issues contained due to guilt and shame, to proudly telling the world to fuck off, then promptly is brought down from that when reality comes to her in the form of Anna, and finally learns that instead of concealing, she should be embracing who she is and loving herself and all those around her. as far as point three, the plot doesn't care where her powers come from. it's inconsequential, because the movie is not about them directly. it's about Elsa's struggle with controlling them. it would have been nice to know why she was born with those powers, I suppose, but ultimately it would have just served to muddle the themes of the movie. the movie works better without an elaboration on them, because they would have just served to distract from the points the movie wanted to make. and point 5, Hans wasn't even the bad guy, at least not the main bad guy. the bad guy was Elsa, albeit an incredibly unconventional one for Disney's standards. Hans was a plot device, needed to push the plot towards its climax, which ultimately was about whether Elsa's and Anna's sisterly bond was strong enough so that one would willingly sacrifice their life for the other. there was issues with how Hans was handled, and these issues can almost certainly be attributed to the tons of rewrites this movie experienced throughout its development, but overall, considering that the movie was trying to buck trends in their Disney Princess, it was ok. the third act of the movie was definitely the weakest part of the film. Creating Olaf a comic relief character at least for me is a problem same with the ice monster the dress the many things Also you just said that elsas development starts and ends at the same point Let it go Elsa has little to no Defining traits aside I have trauma and I can sing it away Elsa wasnt the one who locked herself it was her parents your point is flawed because even then its part of the trauma which I adressed Elsa isnt the bad guy cuz she is the deuternoganist of the story she doesnt function like a villain at all while hans is just there cuz you need a bad why FOR ABSOLUTELY no fucking reason they could have just scraped him and made the character arc better and flesh out elsas personality more then just Im borken Fuck off Did you listen to me that most of the movie feels shoe horned cuz it does If your powers are unclear dont define them as "Ice powers" she has telekinesis and can make things come to life for absolutely no reason its a problem You dont need to focus on them you need to explain them not just say ICE MAGIC because thats clearly not ice magic The strongest part of the film is when they are children (Ignoring do the last minute do you want to kill a snowman) ALSO what happend to elsas parents they did just decide to Disapper Edited April 26, 2015 by Moishe Oofnik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicBeat Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Creating Olaf a comic relief character at least for me is a problem same with the ice monster the dress the many things Also you just said that elsas development starts and ends at the same point Let it go Elsa has little to no Defining traits aside I have trauma and I can sing it away Elsa wasnt the one who locked herself it was her parents your point is flawed because even then its part of the trauma which I adressed Elsa isnt the bad guy cuz she is the deuternoganist of the story she doesnt function like a villain at all while hans is just there cuz you need a bad why FOR ABSOLUTELY no fucking reason they could have just scraped him and made the character arc better and flesh out elsas personality more then just Im borken Fuck off Did you listen to me that most of the movie feels shoe horned cuz it does If your powers are unclear dont define them as "Ice powers" she has telekinesis and can make things come to life for absolutely no reason its a problem You dont need to focus on them you need to explain them not just say ICE MAGIC because thats clearly not ice magic The strongest part of the film is when they are children (Ignoring do the last minute do you want to kill a snowman) ALSO what happend to elsas parents they did just decide to Disapper what? i didn't say that elsa's development starts and ends at the same point. i said that Elsa's development starts with Let it Go, until the climax where she learns to embrace who she is and love herself and those around her. some people think that her development stops with Let it Go, but that's wrong. and what do you mean, Elsa has little defining traits? she has plenty. she is reclusive, neurotic, aloof. she has plenty of love to give, but her fears keep her away from doing so, which is literally eating her inside. this is precisely why she started losing control of her powers after the whole "conceal don't feel" mantra that her parents made her adopt. because yes, although it was first her parents idea, she also willingly decided to isolate herself. i mean, the whole movie was literally about breaking her out of this, since it's precisely what ended up causing the endless winter. because even after she decided to "let it go," she still hadn't let it go, and her actions STILL were controlled by her fears. the song is meant to have a tinge of irony. and yes, Elsa is the "villain", or antagonist as it's more correct to say, if we go by the traditional plot structure. An antagonist doesn't have to be evil to function. The movie was about Elsa and Anna's estranged relationship, and the shitstorm that it caused due to Elsa's out of control powers. Hans is a plot device, first used to bring about the falling out between the sisters that kicked off the plot, then to push the story to the climax which is when they prove that their sisterly relationship is strong enough that even after the falling out and the years in isolation they still care about each other. the story never really is about Hans. He's just there to help move the plot in the directions in needs to go. and like i said, the movie isn't about Elsa's powers. it's about Elsa and Anna's estranged relationship. the powers were the cause of this estrangement, but they're only important to the story in that they caused this estrangement in the first place. an elaboration of their source is not needed. and Elsa's parents died. you know, after the whole sequence with the sinking ship right before their funeral service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 what? i didn't say that elsa's development starts and ends at the same point. i said that Elsa's development starts with Let it Go, until the climax where she learns to embrace who she is and love herself and those around her. some people think that her development stops with Let it Go, but that's wrong. She learns half of what you said in let it go and everyone has love to give is not really development its basic human knowledge unless the person is pure evil and You can see she loves her sister in the start so... you still showed no conclusive point and what do you mean, Elsa has little defining traits? she has plenty. she is reclusive, neurotic, aloof. she has plenty of love to give, but her fears keep her away from doing so, which is literally eating her inside. this is precisely why she started losing control of her powers after the whole "conceal don't feel" mantra that her parents made her adopt. because yes, although it was first her parents idea, she also willingly decided to isolate herself. i mean, the whole movie was literally about breaking her out of this, since it's precisely what ended up causing the endless winter. because even after she decided to "let it go," she still hadn't let it go, and her actions STILL were controlled by her fears. the song is meant to have a tinge of irony. and yes, Elsa is the "villain", or antagonist as it's more correct to say, if we go by the traditional plot structure. An antagonist doesn't have to be evil to function. The movie was about Elsa and Anna's estranged relationship, and the shitstorm that it caused due to Elsa's out of control powers. Hans is a plot device, first used to bring about the falling out between the sisters that kicked off the plot, then to push the story to the climax which is when they prove that their sisterly relationship is strong enough that even after the falling out and the years in isolation they still care about each other. the story never really is about Hans. He's just there to help move the plot in the directions in needs to go. Even by the 3 act structure elsa functions more like a deuternoganist rather then a protag its we see her and elsas point of view she isnt a villain some guys (and only some) treat her as the villain plenty of love to give not a defining trait and she isnt very kind from what we see she is broken thats it and like i said, the movie isn't about Elsa's powers. it's about Elsa and Anna's estranged relationship. the powers were the cause of this estrangement, but they're only important to the story in that they caused this estrangement in the first place. an elaboration of their source is not needed. I said an actual explanation not focus for the 3rd godamn time now and Elsa's parents died. you know, after the whole sequence with the sinking ship right before their funeral service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicBeat Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 what? i didn't say that elsa's development starts and ends at the same point. i said that Elsa's development starts with Let it Go, until the climax where she learns to embrace who she is and love herself and those around her. some people think that her development stops with Let it Go, but that's wrong. She learns half of what you said in let it go and everyone has love to give is not really development its basic human knowledge unless the person is pure evil and You can see she loves her sister in the start so... you still showed no conclusive point and what do you mean, Elsa has little defining traits? she has plenty. she is reclusive, neurotic, aloof. she has plenty of love to give, but her fears keep her away from doing so, which is literally eating her inside. this is precisely why she started losing control of her powers after the whole "conceal don't feel" mantra that her parents made her adopt. because yes, although it was first her parents idea, she also willingly decided to isolate herself. i mean, the whole movie was literally about breaking her out of this, since it's precisely what ended up causing the endless winter. because even after she decided to "let it go," she still hadn't let it go, and her actions STILL were controlled by her fears. the song is meant to have a tinge of irony. and yes, Elsa is the "villain", or antagonist as it's more correct to say, if we go by the traditional plot structure. An antagonist doesn't have to be evil to function. The movie was about Elsa and Anna's estranged relationship, and the shitstorm that it caused due to Elsa's out of control powers. Hans is a plot device, first used to bring about the falling out between the sisters that kicked off the plot, then to push the story to the climax which is when they prove that their sisterly relationship is strong enough that even after the falling out and the years in isolation they still care about each other. the story never really is about Hans. He's just there to help move the plot in the directions in needs to go. Even by the 3 act structure elsa functions more like a deuternoganist rather then a protag its we see her and elsas point of view she isnt a villain some guys (and only some) treat her as the villain plenty of love to give not a defining trait and she isnt very kind from what we see she is broken thats it and like i said, the movie isn't about Elsa's powers. it's about Elsa and Anna's estranged relationship. the powers were the cause of this estrangement, but they're only important to the story in that they caused this estrangement in the first place. an elaboration of their source is not needed. I said an actual explanation not focus for the 3rd godamn time now and Elsa's parents died. you know, after the whole sequence with the sinking ship right before their funeral service. she learns to run away from her problems and not deal with them in Let it Go. you know, the whole "i don't care what they're going to say" part. she didn't learn to love herself, because the first thing she did after singing it was build a ice fortress away from everybody else. this is pointed out very excplicitly with the reprise of "For the First Time in Forever," with Elsa outright stating that she was stupid for thinking that she could have escaped from her problems and that she truly isn't "free." and as far as development, it doesn't matter if it's basic human knowledge or not. Elsa hated herself and her powers, because she could hurt the people she loved the most with them. and it's not about love, it's about being open to love and not isolating yourself. yes, the sisters loved each other, but Elsa kept isolating herself, which was hurting their relationship. that's what the whole movie was about. and by the plot structure, Elsa is the antagonist. the conflict of the movie is literally that the sisters aren't having a relationship. Anna even has a whole musical number about how she has always felt so lonely. it's her "I Want" song. you don't have to be a villain to be an antagonist, you just have to be the cause of the conflict of the story. considering that Anna wanted to reconnect with her sister, and Elsa wanted to keep her away, we can obviously see that Elsa is the source of the conflict, until she understands that isolating herself is only making things worse. and like i said, what's the point of an explanation? the story doesn't need it. it's about as necessary as a background montage featuring the Duke of Weselton. the movies are not about them, and would ultimately be filler. the story is about the relationship between the sisters, not about Elsa's powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 she learns to run away from her problems and not deal with them in Let it Go. you know, the whole "i don't care what they're going to say" part. she didn't learn to love herself, because the first thing she did after singing it was build a ice fortress away from everybody else. this is pointed out very excplicitly with the reprise of "For the First Time in Forever," with Elsa outright stating that she was stupid for thinking that she could have escaped from her problems and that she truly isn't "free." and as far as development, it doesn't matter if it's basic human knowledge or not. Elsa hated herself and her powers, because she could hurt the people she loved the most with them. and it's not about love, it's about being open to love and not isolating yourself. yes, the sisters loved each other, but Elsa kept isolating herself, which was hurting their relationship. that's what the whole movie was about. Reread what I said and Elsa parents Isolated her from Anna Elsa didnt Isolate Anna until adult age aka the trauma and by the plot structure, Elsa is the antagonist. the conflict of the movie is literally that the sisters aren't having a relationship. Anna even has a whole musical number about how she has always felt so lonely. it's her "I Want" song. you don't have to be a villain to be an antagonist, you just have to be the cause of the conflict of the story. considering that Anna wanted to reconnect with her sister, and Elsa wanted to keep her away, we can obviously see that Elsa is the source of the conflict, until she understands that isolating herself is only making things worse. By the plot structure no one is the antagonist because there are 2 points of view in this story Elsas and Annas Elsa is only portrayed as the bad guy by certin people not the mains hence she isnt the villain and like i said, what's the point of an explanation? the story doesn't need it. it's about as necessary as a background montage featuring the Duke of Weselton. the movies are not about them, and would ultimately be filler. the story is about the relationship between the sisters, not about Elsa's powers. It is nessesary cause big elements of the story dont make sense every segment of her using her powers doesnt make sense why have her using magic at all if you dont tell us what it actually does now you are just ignoring half the things I say for thinking OH YEA lets not explain things because its fun to have inconclusive major plot keys her powers are main plot motivators but we dont exactly know her powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicBeat Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 she learns to run away from her problems and not deal with them in Let it Go. you know, the whole "i don't care what they're going to say" part. she didn't learn to love herself, because the first thing she did after singing it was build a ice fortress away from everybody else. this is pointed out very excplicitly with the reprise of "For the First Time in Forever," with Elsa outright stating that she was stupid for thinking that she could have escaped from her problems and that she truly isn't "free." and as far as development, it doesn't matter if it's basic human knowledge or not. Elsa hated herself and her powers, because she could hurt the people she loved the most with them. and it's not about love, it's about being open to love and not isolating yourself. yes, the sisters loved each other, but Elsa kept isolating herself, which was hurting their relationship. that's what the whole movie was about. Reread what I said and Elsa parents Isolated her from Anna Elsa didnt Isolate Anna until adult age aka the trauma and by the plot structure, Elsa is the antagonist. the conflict of the movie is literally that the sisters aren't having a relationship. Anna even has a whole musical number about how she has always felt so lonely. it's her "I Want" song. you don't have to be a villain to be an antagonist, you just have to be the cause of the conflict of the story. considering that Anna wanted to reconnect with her sister, and Elsa wanted to keep her away, we can obviously see that Elsa is the source of the conflict, until she understands that isolating herself is only making things worse. By the plot structure no one is the antagonist because there are 2 points of view in this story Elsas and Annas Elsa is only portrayed as the bad guy by certin people not the mains hence she isnt the villain and like i said, what's the point of an explanation? the story doesn't need it. it's about as necessary as a background montage featuring the Duke of Weselton. the movies are not about them, and would ultimately be filler. the story is about the relationship between the sisters, not about Elsa's powers. It is nessesary cause big elements of the story dont make sense every segment of her using her powers doesnt make sense why have her using magic at all if you dont tell us what it actually does now you are just ignoring half the things I say for thinking OH YEA lets not explain things because its fun to have inconclusive major plot keys her powers are main plot motivators but we dont exactly know her powers Elsa willingly went through the isolation, too. she was as freaked out about her powers as her parents, and she didn't want to hurt her sister again. sure, she wanted to play and do all that, but she saw how close she got to killing off her sister, and didn't want to risk it again. it wasn't just her parents, she willingly isolated herself too. it doesn't matter whether there is two viewpoints or not. the main conflict is the same. Anna and Elsa want to have a sisterly relationship, but Elsa is freaked out about her powers so she keeps isolating herself. that makes Elsa the antagonist. and like i've said repeatedly, you don't have to be a villain to be the antagonist. and what more explanation is needed from Elsa's powers besides the fact that she can manipulate the weather and create snow golems? is there anything in the plot that warrants an explanation beyond that? no, because the movie isn't about her powers, it's about her relationship with her sister. the powers are only important in that they're the obstacle that has caused the sisters to become distant from one another. it's no different from what was done with Maleficient, or Ursula, or Jaffar, or all the other antagonists in the Disney films. They are only elaborated so far as they have to in order to solidify the plot. anything else is filler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I have to agree that an explanation of where Elsa got her powers and all would've been nice. I mean, Tangled wasn't about Rapunzel's magical hair either, yet we learn how she got it. Her mother became ill and eventually drank a medicine that had a magic healing golden flower mixed into it. The flower's powers transferred to her unborn baby, aka Rapunzel. But Tangled was more about Rapunzel's desire to see the world and those lanterns in the sky up close, not about her powers. Besides this, I feel Frozen was amazing and watching it felt just like watching those classic Disney movies from the 90s and before then for the first time! I bought myself Anna and Elsa PJ's the other day and simply can't wait to see Frozen Fever (if I ever get a chance), and Frozen 2! ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 What is it about this film that causes so much heated discussion? Oh yeah, the protagonists. There are two of them and they are both female. This is the reason why it has positive feedback as well as (just as much) negative feedback. Makes me wonder what it is about females doing things that arent all that traditional that freaks people out. Forget Lilo & Stitch, this movie was a better sisters/family film. Imo, Lilo & Stitch was just plain weird and dull. Case in point. Lilo & Stitch was even less traditional (and the protags werent white) and we get this kind of response about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Oh, don't get me wrong, I do like that Lilo & Stitch did some different things and all. But this is one of those rare cases where the different stuff just didn't work out, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 what the shit, we're still fighting about frozen like a year later? what are we even fighting about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 · Hidden by Integrity, April 27, 2015 - spam Hidden by Integrity, April 27, 2015 - spam what the shit, we're still fighting about frozen like a year later? what are we even fighting about? Link to comment
Crysta Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 hrm. i make my icon a male-version of elsa and this thread happens to show up (mostly because it fits my name and it's not quite so obvious). *reads through the long list of links* good god our kids are going to be doing their college research papers on this movie decades from now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Oh, don't get me wrong, I do like that Lilo & Stitch did some different things and all. But this is one of those rare cases where the different stuff just didn't work out, imo. Fair enough. Ive seen a lot of criticism in Frozen's direction about it being "too white" lol of course, its Scandinavia and Lilo and Stitch getting the shaft because of the opposite. Its discouraging to say the least. I disagree that the "different" didnt work because i loved Lilo and Stitch's dynamics. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Yeah, the people complaining about the white skin are dumb. Like you said, it's freaking Scandinavia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moishe Oofnik Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Elsa willingly went through the isolation, too. she was as freaked out about her powers as her parents, and she didn't want to hurt her sister again. sure, she wanted to play and do all that, but she saw how close she got to killing off her sister, and didn't want to risk it again. it wasn't just her parents, she willingly isolated herself too. We dont actually know that they pushed her that her powers are dangerous and got fucking traumatized again all she has for herself as a character is being broken and traumatic you literly have no point it doesn't matter whether there is two viewpoints or not. the main conflict is the same. Anna and Elsa want to have a sisterly relationship, but Elsa is freaked out about her powers so she keeps isolating herself. that makes Elsa the antagonist. and like i've said repeatedly, you don't have to be a villain to be the antagonist. Ever herd about game of thrones where you dont really have a villain you have alot of points of view by your explanation Anna is the antagonist for Elsa because Elsa is also a protag and what more explanation is needed from Elsa's powers besides the fact that she can manipulate the weather and create snow golems? is there anything in the plot that warrants an explanation beyond that? no, because the movie isn't about her powers, it's about her relationship with her sister. the powers are only important in that they're the obstacle that has caused the sisters to become distant from one another. it's no different from what was done with Maleficient, or Ursula, or Jaffar, or all the other antagonists in the Disney films. They are only elaborated so far as they have to in order to solidify the plot. anything else is filler. She cant was never explained how and they said she has Ice powers not bringing things to life OLAF IS A MAJOR CHARACTER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.