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Hamlet

[NEW] FE4 Skill Tier List

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I can't be assed to find the old one which is very possibly 3+ years old now.

I once made a tier list of the Genealogy skills, and naturally, my list-making self has decided to remake it. It's a simple enough list, as skills are much easier to judge than units for numerous reasons. Personal experience definitely comes less into play here as well.

The ranking criteria are as follows:

-Availability: How available this skill is to your units. Obviously the more common the skill, the more useful. This does not include the auto-critical tacked onto 50+ kill weapons (because then Critical could theoretically be the top of everything by virtue of reinforcement farming). Class/weapon skills are included in this tally. Also, it is taken into account which units possess these skills. For example, Ayra possessing Nihil is absolutely useless because she will never, ever be critted; whereas Alec's possession of Nihil is a little more useful because he can avoid Horseslayer crits. Same with, say, Wrath: Tiltyu and Tinny possessing Wrath is useless because they are extremely frail for a majority of the game, whereas Arthur is amazing with Wrath, especially if he is Lex or Levin's son.

-Effect in Battle: How this skill benefits (or poses a drawback) to your units in battle affects its placement. Does it make your units kill enemies faster? Make them die less? Allow them to progress further?

-Activation: How often does this skill activate? The more it activates, the better, naturally.

-Adaptability: How easy is it for this skill to go from one generation to the next? This also includes how it benefits or hinders children characters.

-Contributions to Efficiency Plays: We're not looking at absolute LTC here, but we're not turtling either. How does the skill help your units achieve their goals easier?

Rings are also included in a skill's overall ranking. This, of course, affects very few skills, but it does affect the availability of the Ring skills. Another minor consideration is how well the skill works with other skills on units. For example, the almighty Ambush/Wrath combo makes both skills more useful when stacked, but not necessarily on their own. This is mostly looked at with skills like Charge and Continue which can be very dangerous when combined together or with Pursuit.

UPDATE: Due to requests the tier list has been switched to two separate lists by Generation. Those are below. This is the original, and general, tier list, and will remain up for debate and reference.

Pursuit Tier

Pursuit

High Tier

Dance

Elite

High Middle Tier

Prayer

Steal

Charisma

Middle Tier

Critical

Continue

Astra

Charge

Bargain

Return

Wrath

Low Middle Tier

Ambush

Luna

Low Tier

Sol

Nihil

Life

Bottom Tier

Great Shield

[spoiler=First Generation]Pursuit Tier

Pursuit

High Tier

Dance

Elite

Return

High Middle Tier

Prayer

Steal

Charisma

Middle Tier

Continue

Critical

Charge

Astra

Bargain

Low Middle Tier

Wrath

Luna

Ambush

Low Tier

Sol

Nihil

Bottom Tier

Life

Great Shield

[spoiler=Second Generation]

Pursuit Tier

Pursuit

High Tier

Dance

Elite

Charisma

High Middle Tier

Continue

Critical

Charge

Middle Tier

Prayer

Astra

Charge

Steal

Bargain

Low Middle Tier

Wrath

Ambush

Return

Luna

Low Tier

Sol

Life

Bottom Tier

Nihil

Great Shield

[spoiler=The Almighty ChangeLog]3/8/2015:

-Bargain dropped to Middle Tier, position still debateable

-Critical dropped to Middle Tier, maintains same position

Edited by Hamlet

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I'd personally put steal above charge, personally. The ability to get more money is pretty amazing.

Also, Great Shield isn't bottom. It's forced into crappy units, I understand, but that doesn't make it a bad skill. It's like how Lughnasadh is good but Leonardo sucks. Probably above Sol.

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It's almost impossible to rank skills in Fe4 because they are all basically situation dependent, especially considering 2nd generation skills are completely 1st generation dependent. And trying to extract class skill usefulness from personal skills is out near impossible, especially considering characters like Arya and Briggid essentially pass down their pursuit and dance is only a class skill, Jamke and Holyn are the only 2 who really get screwed by them.

And then there are skills like critical, with fe4 being essentially the best iteration in the whole series, doubling might before accounting for defense, my goodness. But, when taking out weapon critical, should I exclude Mistolin, it really limits its usefulness. Only Noish and Levin possess it, but Noish is rarely used champ with a couple of viable pairings and critical is Levin's second best skill behind continue/adept. And continue is a high level skill for certain, Quan, Jamke, Levin, Sylvia (blah), and that's not even considering its huge usefulness as a class skill for Arya, Beowulf, Talito, and FUry.

My general thoughts is Highest tier, Pursuit and dance, the fact it refreshes 4 units is WAY TOO GOOD. High tier is probably charisma, continue, and maybe critical, but definitely below continue. Mid tier is charge, lots of availability and makes archers considerably better, astra, lots of overkill offense, great for the arena, steal next, money is your friend, especially for doing what you want easily, next is ambush, lots of 1st generation usefulness and it's the only thing that makes wrath usable on Talito's children, wrath is hard to call good, ensured critical but leaves Talito in the big danger zone, really only good for the arena and really only good for her kids with Lex as their daddy. Low tier is Luna, only better than sol due to being on Holyn vs Dew, Sol, Dew (ew), and Life, but only because the rings and Yewfelle. Wood tier (bottom tier) is Nihil, useful for killing Julius, that's really it, and then great shield, mostly used as an AI roadblock tool.

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Steal is amazing, don't get me wrong. However, it's locked to three of the most useless units in the game. Dew never sees combat, Daisy is pathetic, and Patty is only good with the right father/inheritance.

And I should consider the class skill option, although only Continue is affected. Pursuit is still amazing, and Great Shield still sucks. Although it may be at least better than Nihil... when it's used Great Shield is useful. But the problem is, it's on units who are never used. I may have to consider looking into the option of "in a perfect world where everyone is used and trained to level 30".

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How fast is efficiency, and is getting an A rank important? The steal/give combination of Daisy and Dew is incredibly useful in LTC (my 0% Growths LTC is a good example, though that may not be generalizable to typical play) and very helpful with elite ring passing around in ranked play. If efficiency is quite fast or A rank is being assumed, steal should be in high tier. The unit with steal doesn't even have to be good, you can easily just attack bandits (who have lots of cash) chip normal enemies, or use the thief ring/ sword (when playing for efficiency you may not get the ring.)

Another question is how good we are assuming the player is. Prayer can be gamebreakingly powerful (24 HP Celice surviving the most brutal enemy phases of the game/ Deidre destroying Macklily) but only if you are very precise with your planning. Availability would be good since you have Fin, Deidre, Leen (if Sylvia is paired), Daisy (if Briggid isn't paired), a prayer sword user, and a prayer ring user all making great use of it (Fin probably won't be paired, let's be honest). In a growths efficiency play prayer wouldn't actually make things go much faster, but things like knocking Fin/Lachesis into prayer range to bait a bunch of enemy attacks can help reliability. Prayer has non rng reliant activation (omitting whether you get hit or not, which you're planning to if you want to abuse Prayer to its full extent) which also works in its favor. Of course, if we're assuming an average player, they wouldn't abuse prayer to its full extent.

So yeah, my suggestions would be to move prayer and steal both somewhere in High Tier.

Edit: Also you haven't ranked return. I'd suggest putting it somewhere in High Middle Tier, or maybe the bottom of High Tier.

Edited by MartyTheDemonSlayer

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yeah, prayer is kind of finicky, but it's probably high tier.

Edit: And I've seen Dew be used in relatively quick, efficient runs and Patty has lots of useful daddies really, magic swords on the thieves make for lots of easy money and decently strong thieves.

Edited by Zasplach

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I recall ages ago Shin told me Light Sword!Dew is amazing for tanking the Cross Knights. That's a decent amount of cash right there, and you are right, Steal is useful because banditchip. In my opinion, it is much better in Gen 1, because of the aformentioned Light Sword shenanigans, as well as that entire wave of bandits Dew and Aideen encounter in Chapter 1, which Dew can tank by plopping himself on a forest while Aideen runs away.

As for Prayer, I originally ranked it much higher and I don't know why I changed it. True, it depends on how good the player is at manipulating it (although in all fairness an average player is most likely assumed for the sake of easiness), but Prayertanking is what makes units like Fin so powerful.

As for Return, I've never found usage for the rings because my Return Staffer is 99% of the time on a horse (easy levels for Ethlin and Nanna when I Returngrind), but it's useful for quick clears of Chapters 3 and 4 with Sigurd, saves charges on the Return Staff for chapters like 9 where enemies charge the fuck out of your home castle when most of your party is nowhere near it, and also it's good for any quick promotion runs. For now Return will go into Middle Tier, maybe right above Wrath (Charge is just too good in the right hands, and even the wrong hands sometimes).

Steal is moving up as well, for now right below Prayer because I can't justify that many skills in High, and the three that are there are just too good.

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Things are super dependant on generation imo. I'd consider a skill like Critical better than Pursuit in gen 2 since you have so many ways to circumvent the lack of pursuit (hero weapons, pursuit ring, etc). Pursuit is much better in gen 1 because most units don't really have the offence/there are less hero weapons in general. Not to mention if you pair optimally, the competition for the pursuit ring is pretty low.

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It would probably make more sense to have different tier lists for the respective generations tbh. Things change a lot especially with regards to availiability: Pursuit is omnipresent in gen 2 where some units kind of miss it in gen 1; Critical and Continue are much more available in gen 2 than in gen 1; Charge, Continue and Critical overall have a higher chance to activate in gen 2 because they often come in conjunction with Pursuit. Then there's stuff like Astra and Luna that are straight up overkill and kinda superfluous in gen 2 [except Luna on Holyn!Patty] when they can make a difference in gen 1.

And then what Horace said. Easier/earlier access to Rings, Critical, Continue, Charge, Holy weapons and a second Hero Sword can make up for a lack of Pursuit on units like Noish!Delmud or Levin!Arthur. Making up for a lack of Pursuit in gen 1 is much more complicated.

Edited by Yojinbo

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Overall, though, Pursuit is still extremely valuable in both Generations. When looking at units in both generations, the first question everyone asks is "do they have a horse", the second is "do they have Pursuit". It's THAT good and makes a difference, especially in those early Gen 2 moments when Seliph isn't on a horse (also assuming he doesn't have the Knight Ring, which is highly possible if Sylvia married) and you need someone to kill the boss. Those Pursuit units are taking priority so they can Canto away and Seliph can seize in the same turn.

Although I do agree that Pursuit is a lot more common in Gen 2, but when it comes down to the wire, it's still THAT good, and the units with Pursuit are still more valuable than the units without. Of course, there are the exceptions like Levin!Arthur and Lex!Arthur, but I've noticed that Arthur tends to get the Pursuit Ring most of the time, especially after Leaf promotes. If it's glued to Arthur, it's not going to anyone else. Not every kid's going to have Pursuit (lolAlecpairings), so it can--and will--make a difference in those moments where everyone's promoted and doing the fighting.

Of course, that logic makes Elite even better because of the very-contested Elite Ring. In Gen 1 it's mostly good for getting those slower units to their promotions (although arguably it's glued to Fin until Chapter 3, then it becomes a Lachesis/Fury/possibly Levin deathmatch for who gets it next), but in Gen 2 it's much more valuable when we need to get Seliph, Leaf, and Arthur on their horses ASAP. Lex is only one father and he's highly contested for. Even if he marries Tiltyu and Arthur thus has innate Elite, we're looking at Seliph and Leaf battling over Elite (although everyone and their mother promotes Elite Ring!Seliph by Chapter 7's beginning). I'm sure I'm missing someone when it comes to Elite in Gen 2, but I've only had one cup of coffee so forgive me.

Edit: And no, there's no theoretical way Ethlin will be giving Leaf both the Elite and Pursuit rings. Even with Cuan and Dew giving her everything they ever make, ever, she can't afford them. Plus, that's suboptimal when Seliph and Levin!Arthur both want the Elite Ring, and Lex!Arthur performs ridiculous shenanigans with the Pursuit Ring.

Edited by Hamlet

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If we're talking any kind of efficiency Celice is guaranteed the elite ring. Leif probably just wants the bargain ring, return ring, and a few other rings so that Celice can sell off the elite ring after promoting in the base and Leif can quickly buy the elite ring.

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Slight disagreements, but I'm contrary, so I'll mention them anyhow. I still think dance belongs in the same super tier as pursuit, the refreshing of four units is just so overwhelmingly good. Still talking about the top tier, charisma should be just above steal, charisma is what makes Delmud and Nanna always good and its one of the major reasons that people don't pair Sylvia.

As an aside, I've never understood the intense love of bargain. Obviously in a game with limited resources, halving items' costs is invaluable, but in practice it's just so messy. The only 1st gen character possessing it is Dew, thus it is a dicey proposition to pass on to any kids. It has uses on staff bots like Rana and Adean (the people I generally give the bargain ring to) and apparently people pass it on to Leif to get the elite ring quicker; it's a good idea, never thought of it. I feel like bargain belongs in the medium tier, somewhere just above charge, it's a great skill in practice, but it never feels like it gets to the right people.

And back to an earlier point about critical vs continue, I still feel like continue is better. Critical has huge overkill potential, but continue just has way more availability than critical and excluding Levin and Ares, continue is on much better champions.

And lastly, I think if you include weapons and rings, life is a better skill than Nihil, mostly due to its nice synergy with a skill like prayer, allowing prayer to be 'reset'.

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Nobody's saying that Pursuit isn't extremely valuable and I'm not denying that it's the best skill to have in either generation. But in the second generation some skills increase in value for various reasons [Critical and Continue mainly] and other skills become rather pointless [Luna and Astra mainly] compared to the first generation. Ambush and Wrath are also better in generation 2 because Lex!Arthur can actually use both skills at once to good results ... there are probably many more examples where a skill's value changes from gen 1 to gen 2. So wouldn't it make sense to have two tier lists?

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there are probably many more examples where a skill's value changes from gen 1 to gen 2. So wouldn't it make sense to have two tier lists?

I see that logic too, to be honest.

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I'd like to think pursuit's the best skill in the game, but when you look at the best units in the game, none of said units are good because they have pursuit except maybe Sigurd (although he's largely good because of his high bases and early silver sword).

Cuan, Ethlin, Lex, Levin, Dew, and Sylvia are all among the best gen 1 units and don't have pursuit, and units in gen 2 like Shanan, Aless, Leaf and whoever gets Holsety either don't have pursuit or aren't good because they have Pursuit; Shanan and Aless would function more or less the exact same if they didn't have it.

EDIT: Forgot Celice. Other than in Chapter 6, he could not have Pursuit as long as he has a hero sword, but he's more dependant on it too.

EDITEDIT: Also I agree Bargain is an overrated skill. It makes life easier, but it's not gamebreaking due to how few units have access to it.

Luna and Astra are very good for bosses and even just having an enemy die every time it procs. There's a reason why Roddelbad and Badney aren't anywhere near Ayra's kids, their stats aren't really all that different. Or just subs in general. Very few units can just kill even generic enemies with just two attacks. Oifaye doesn't even ORKO bandits in chapter 6.

Edited by General Horace

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Slight disagreements, but I'm contrary, so I'll mention them anyhow. I still think dance belongs in the same super tier as pursuit, the refreshing of four units is just so overwhelmingly good. Still talking about the top tier, charisma should be just above steal, charisma is what makes Delmud and Nanna always good and its one of the major reasons that people don't pair Sylvia.

Originally I had Dance and Pursuit together. Truth be told I am apt to putting them together again. However, there is one dilemma: Dance usually falls off after the first turn or so if your dancer doesn't have the Leg Ring. Now, my last playthrough, I used Leg Ring!Sylvia/Leen, and it was amazing. In terms of Charisma, I do agree on that one. Charisma is ridiculous.

As an aside, I've never understood the intense love of bargain. Obviously in a game with limited resources, halving items' costs is invaluable, but in practice it's just so messy. The only 1st gen character possessing it is Dew, thus it is a dicey proposition to pass on to any kids. It has uses on staff bots like Rana and Adean (the people I generally give the bargain ring to) and apparently people pass it on to Leif to get the elite ring quicker; it's a good idea, never thought of it. I feel like bargain belongs in the medium tier, somewhere just above charge, it's a great skill in practice, but it never feels like it gets to the right people.

Bargain, while short in supply, is ridiculous. Repairing costly staves and Holy Weapons are commonplace, and Bargain makes it a lot less awful. I'm always struggling to give Shanan, Aless, and Sety money because they're plowing through the Arena and then spending everything to repair their weapons. Bargain makes it a lot easier on them. However, I do believe its rarity may be worth penalizing it some, but not by much. When Bargain's used, it's USED.

And back to an earlier point about critical vs continue, I still feel like continue is better. Critical has huge overkill potential, but continue just has way more availability than critical and excluding Levin and Ares, continue is on much better champions.

I ranked them right next to each other with the openness that they can shuffle back-and-forth. They're pretty much even, and both are deadly when paired with other skills. Continue is more available especially because a lot of classes have it for their skill. Critical is prevalent if we include Lover/Sibling crits, which are extremely useful when activated. Naturally, both of these skills are very dependent on their activation.

And lastly, I think if you include weapons and rings, life is a better skill than Nihil, mostly due to its nice synergy with a skill like prayer, allowing prayer to be 'reset'.

Life Ring resets Prayer, true, but the problem with it is that Life Ring doesn't restore enough HP for you to want Prayer to be reset. Most times, the unit with Prayer wouldn't survive a post-Life Ring attack to begin with. If Life healed more I would absolutely rank it higher but its contributions are just too insignificant. Plus, with only Life Ring around and with no units possessing it as a skill, it's extremely useless, especially when both Generations supply you with enough healers (a lot of them on horses) who will do Life's job twenty times over.

Nobody's saying that Pursuit isn't extremely valuable and I'm not denying that it's the best skill to have in either generation. But in the second generation some skills increase in value for various reasons [Critical and Continue mainly] and other skills become rather pointless [Luna and Astra mainly] compared to the first generation. Ambush and Wrath are also better in generation 2 because Lex!Arthur can actually use both skills at once to good results ... there are probably many more examples where a skill's value changes from gen 1 to gen 2. So wouldn't it make sense to have two tier lists?

I tried to take both Generations into account when I was making the list. I'm not opposed to making a second list, though.

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When the rescue staff is around dance never falls off, but even if your dancer can't be at the front lines, dance is still amazing after the first turn. It helps you get more experience on bad units, helps slower units catch up, and with careful warp/return usage the dancer can do some more turn saving dances. I'd say it should be right below pursuit.

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I think Ambush should be higher than the sword skills (so Astra) if we're taking into account the units that get skills. As you said, the first question anyone asks in FE4 is whether a unit has a horse, and if they have a horse, they can't have a sword skill. On the other hand Ambush is I think really underrated. Even if your unit doesn't have Wrath, you can just slap a Hero weapon on them. In Gen 1, Lex with Ambush and the Hero Axe can kill large groups of enemies. In Gen 2 the Hero weapon may need some crit on it because killing stuff in two hits is hard w/o a holy weapon, but it's still pretty great and you can have Lex pass it to mounted units like Delmud and it's awesome.

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If we are speaking about bargain we should talk about the 2nd best faval (I still think Holyn!Faval is better due to makeing patty better and 80 HP OP)

while faval isnt an exrodinary unit bargain basicly makes his payment for the Ichival not as painful I think it should go to top of high mid or lowest of low High tier(Comparing it Elite and Dance is dumb)

Dance should have its own tier its just so good in FE4 (beetween suit and high)

On a another note who is pro moving charm to lowest of high tier Mainly because its a great support skills with great boosts to characters the characters that get it Delmud Nanna Lachesis Leylea Elto and Aless are all terrific units delmuds offence with beo as father is great finn nanna convo+better mag is also great (delmud being worse because lack of inheritence)lite makes the swords kids the best they can be its basicly noish!ayra with elite and lack of inheritence for ulster but the sword kids are only decent units but lex is like one of the best gen 1 units and elite being a big reason

Im preety sure bargain a skill that isnt very useful on the characters it can be on is good enough to warrent high tier when its subpar to the skills in that tier

I think Ambush should be higher than the sword skills (so Astra) if we're taking into account the units that get skills. As you said, the first question anyone asks in FE4 is whether a unit has a horse, and if they have a horse, they can't have a sword skill. On the other hand Ambush is I think really underrated. Even if your unit doesn't have Wrath, you can just slap a Hero weapon on them. In Gen 1, Lex with Ambush and the Hero Axe can kill large groups of enemies. In Gen 2 the Hero weapon may need some crit on it because killing stuff in two hits is hard w/o a holy weapon, but it's still pretty great and you can have Lex pass it to mounted units like Delmud and it's awesome.

Vantage isnt a good skill in FE4 delmud!lex isnt a very good pairing (lack of inheritence and pursuit for a hero sword he will never get) this isnt inflation or binary patch
Vantages problem is that it only works below 50% HP where bulky units who posses generly dont get there much (why you want Delmud!lex on vanilla fe4 super overkill str? for that 23 str cap) and I doubt you are going to use arden for anything but castle gaurd
Edited by TTPK_Tal

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I'd like to think pursuit's the best skill in the game, but when you look at the best units in the game, none of said units are good because they have pursuit except maybe Sigurd (although he's largely good because of his high bases and early silver sword).

Cuan, Ethlin, Lex, Levin, Dew, and Sylvia are all among the best gen 1 units and don't have pursuit, and units in gen 2 like Shanan, Aless, Leaf and whoever gets Holsety either don't have pursuit or aren't good because they have Pursuit; Shanan and Aless would function more or less the exact same if they didn't have it.

EDIT: Forgot Celice. Other than in Chapter 6, he could not have Pursuit as long as he has a hero sword, but he's more dependant on it too.

EDITEDIT: Also I agree Bargain is an overrated skill. It makes life easier, but it's not gamebreaking due to how few units have access to it.

Luna and Astra are very good for bosses and even just having an enemy die every time it procs. There's a reason why Roddelbad and Badney aren't anywhere near Ayra's kids, their stats aren't really all that different. Or just subs in general. Very few units can just kill even generic enemies with just two attacks. Oifaye doesn't even ORKO bandits in chapter 6.

Pursuit seems like an extra add on, but it really is the difference between being an average unit into a good one and a crappy one into a usable one. Look at characters like Finn, Midir, Lester and Delmud. Finn is a lance unit in the first half of the 1st gen full of stinkin' ax units. Pursuit allows him to gaining the vital levels to get to promo for the 2nd gen.

Midir is often considered to be one of the better first gen units, leastwise he was the last time the forum did a ranking list, despite the fact that he is locked into bows. Yes he has a horse, but pursuit is vital to his hit and run tactics, allowing him to ORKO some of the weaker units and allowing him to chip for those that need to be chipped for to build levels.

Lester is a good example of a character where pursuit is essentially vital, he really sucks without it. Hell people prefer Midir as his father, despite the much worse stat makeup versus someone like Jamke who gives great strength and speed growths, but lacks pursuit.

Delmud is another example of a character who needs pursuit to do any fighting. Hell, even with Azel's crappy growths, he can be a decent Daddy just due to passing down pursuit.

Pursuit just makes the difference with the bread-and-butter units, not the great ones.

Great units are great because they have the best weapons funneled at them due to their superior class or bases/growths.

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IMO Pursuit is at least crucial for Sigurd, Fin, Celice and Oifaye as far as the best units of their respective generation are concerned. Fury and Fee kind of depend on it a lot too and while they don't necessarily rank among the strongest units in the game, having a competent Fury/Fee is still a nice addition to your party. Then again Hero Lance pre-promotion and being staffbot after promotion could be good enough for them so it might be a moot point.

Edit: Noish!Delmud [@Hero Sword] is amazing without Pursuit and Jamka!Lester [@Skill Ring] can make up for the lack of Pursuit with Hero/Killer Bow, Continue and Charge. I dunno about Midir.

Edit: Azel!Delmud is also kind of a mixed bag despite having Pursuit. He won't inherit any weapons and Magic Swords fight at 1 range in the arena aka deal physical damage. He'll still depend on his str a lot and may need a Hero Sword to clear arenas in the beginning plus feeding him some kills in Ch.6 as it will be hard for him to catch up otherwise. And of course he needs that Magic Ring too which he may compete for with Patty and Fee.

Edited by Yojinbo

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Pursuit seems like an extra add on, but it really is the difference between being an average unit into a good one and a crappy one into a usable one. Look at characters like Finn, Midir, Lester and Delmud. Finn is a lance unit in the first half of the 1st gen full of stinkin' ax units. Pursuit allows him to gaining the vital levels to get to promo for the 2nd gen.

Midir is often considered to be one of the better first gen units, leastwise he was the last time the forum did a ranking list, despite the fact that he is locked into bows. Yes he has a horse, but pursuit is vital to his hit and run tactics, allowing him to ORKO some of the weaker units and allowing him to chip for those that need to be chipped for to build levels.

Lester is a good example of a character where pursuit is essentially vital, he really sucks without it. Hell people prefer Midir as his father, despite the much worse stat makeup versus someone like Jamke who gives great strength and speed growths, but lacks pursuit.

Delmud is another example of a character who needs pursuit to do any fighting. Hell, even with Azel's crappy growths, he can be a decent Daddy just due to passing down pursuit.

Pursuit just makes the difference with the bread-and-butter units, not the great ones.

Great units are great because they have the best weapons funneled at them due to their superior class or bases/growths.

azel crappy growth give him meh def and meh skill good mag for mag swords and 50% str isnt even bad delmud isnt a full combat unit either he is also a charm bott and azel!nanna is just great if you wanna focus on that C staves (Lol) Delmud functions better because of pursuit he is still good with or without it

Lester needs bows to be usable BOWS and a father with pursuit helps too but he practicly gets prf hero bow for gen 2 if paired with jamke(if you are skill blessed like me best pairing) or midir

Jamkes lack of pursuit doesnt matter due to the hero bow he gets a worse stat spread overall pursuit is just a bonus

Link me that tier list you were talking about im preety sure midir is like upper mid or mid in most

now for fin axes really axes in FE4 are a joke mostly negative evasion brignards real good ahh

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@TTPK_Tal

Even if axes are terrible they still pose a threat to Fin. He won't be dodging them much (unless you're good with planning out prayer) and doesn't have the defenses to completely ignore them when you're just getting started. Furthermore, the damage he deals back would be really low without pursuit. This would make Finn on the level of (or probably even worse than bc lance lock in axeland) Noish for the first two chapters, making him very difficult to train in time for Chapter 2 (where the Hero Lance would probably give him some relevance, but due to being under leveled he'd be defensively weak.) Then in the second generation an overlevelled Fin would only be good for meat shielding because he wouldn't be able to double all those weak Wyvern Knights. Yeah, Finn would be pretty bad without pursuit.

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@TTPK_Tal

Even if axes are terrible they still pose a threat to Fin. He won't be dodging them much (unless you're good with planning out prayer) and doesn't have the defenses to completely ignore them when you're just getting started. Furthermore, the damage he deals back would be really low without pursuit. This would make Finn on the level of (or probably even worse than bc lance lock in axeland) Noish for the first two chapters, making him very difficult to train in time for Chapter 2 (where the Hero Lance would probably give him some relevance, but due to being under leveled he'd be defensively weak.) Then in the second generation an overlevelled Fin would only be good for meat shielding because he wouldn't be able to double all those weak Wyvern Knights. Yeah, Finn would be pretty bad without pursuit.

My point wasnt that finn pursuit isnt what makes him great(I myself think pursuit is the best skill) but its that his examples arent very good

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