Staves II

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I started a thread about staves a couple of months ago.
At that time I asked you, which staves should return and which new staves should be added.


In this topic I would like to ask you which experience gain model is the best for stave users:

• constant experience gain as in FE6-10: Stave users get always same exprerience independent on the level. In the GBA games promoted units get 50% less experience.
• degressive model as in FE11-13: A level 1 cleric gets more experience than the clerics in FE6-10. Though as the name implies: So higher the level of the unit, so less the gain of experience.

In general I have problems to train clerics, because they get very low experience for healing in 6-10.
10 heals require a level up. Since the earlygame chapters are pretty short, it's almost impossible to give them a level up.
It's known that clerics and monks are very fragile. In some situations you can't even heal, because an enemy with a range weapon can oneshot the healer.
Another problem is that some healers like L'Arachel and Mist join late with low level.

Other new suggestions:

• The healed points will be multiplied with a certain factor (x2). If an unit heals 10 points, it will gain 20 experience.
• A basic number of experience (10) + 1 point of each healed point. If an units heals 10 points, it will get 20 experience points (10 basic exp. + 10 exp. for 10 healed HP).

FE13 is pretty much the opposite:
The experience gain of a level 1 cleric or troubadour is almost doubled compared to FE6-10:
4 / 5 heals = level up.
After a few levels the experience gain will be less.
By this model Lissa is the first unit, who reaches level 20 operated


I added three more question about the mechanics of staves in previous FE games:

• Should staves be able to miss?
• Should double healing return?
• Should staves be equipped to counterattck?

Edited March 17, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Irysa]

I'd prefer a system that is relative to the amount of HP you actually heal. That is, points of HP healed act as a multiplier for how much exp you gain. If a unit is low on HP and you heal for a big chunk, you get a lot of exp, but just topping people off will result in a standard amount. The exception to this would have to be utility staves, which should just be fixed EXP. Missing staves is dumb, crit heals are awesome, and staff counterattack would have to be reworked entirely for me to get behind it, it's far more sensible just to let them use their main weapons.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Irysa

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'd prefer a system that is relative to the amount of EXP you actually heal.

Actually this suggestion is really good.

Added this to the poll!

I guess x2 would be fair:

If an units heals 10 HP, it will get 20 experience.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Irysa]

lol GDI, I somehow wrote HP as EXP instead. Oh well, at least you got my gist.

Also I didn't mean quite like that, more like, there is a flat exp for using a Heal staff (say 10), and each point of HP healed after 5 results gives a 0.1 modifier. So healing for 10 gives 15 exp, healing for 20 would give 25 Exp.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I believe I know what you mean, but it's kinda hard to explain for the poll.

I left the modifier out.

That means each healer gets fixed exp. + each healed HP gives you one experience point.

10 healed points = 20 experience (10 + 10).

Edited March 14, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Magical Glace]

So long as it doesn't take 10,000 years to get them to level 20, I'm happy

[Rapier]

I don't think it makes sense to add exp to how many points are healed. The effort the healer puts into healing someone with 1/27 HP is the same it puts into healing someone with 24/27 HP. It makes no sense for it to get more experience if the effort is not higher (hence why stronger staves heal more and give more exp, they're stronger and require more skill/effort from the healer).

That said, I think staves should be able to block, but not attack. It makes sense for someone to block an attack with a staff even if they're untrained on fights. Standing there watching the big axe guy swing his weapon is silly. But attacking it back is just as silly since it is uneffective.

[Sniper Knight]

Having staves equipped and attacking through light magic would be pretty cool. Also I really miss light magic.

[Dragoncat]

What is double heal?

[Ambulz]

If staves counterattacked with magic damage, wouldn't that undermine the pretense of having to keep your healers in safety, since they were sitting ducks in battle? I found that's why the promotion to Bishop or what have you really made a significant difference.

[Sniper Knight]

What is double heal?

Healing twice in one round, if your healer has enough speed.

[Mango Giamatti]

Exp-wise, I favor a digressive system. It makes training priests in the early-game so much easier and allows them to promote quickly. It also makes sense (to me at least) that they would eventually start gaining less experience from low rank staves as the game progresses, just as combat units gain less experience from defeating low level enemies.

As for counter-attacking, I have never really been a fan of this. In FE10, the wielders' strength stats were usually too low to do damage, rendering it pointless. If it used magic instead, yes they would actually be able to do damage, but you still don't want to put them in harm's way because of how frail they generally are. It doesn't change the overall strategy behind using healers all that much. However, I did like the auto-healing or stat boosts that provided by staves in FE10. I enjoy staves which raise the wielder's avoid and/or defense.

[Coreyographed]

I think that staves should miss, but only if you're trying to hit an enemy unit with a staff like Berserk or Sleep. Otherwise, the healing staves should have perfect accuracy, since your units wouldn't want to dodge healing anyway.

As for counter-attacks, I don't want my healer to equip their staff to fight after they heal. For instance, if I had a sage that used a barrier staff to heal my units, I'd still rather have him have his tome equipped instead of Barrier.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I think that staves should miss, but only if you're trying to hit an enemy unit with a staff like Berserk or Sleep. Otherwise, the healing staves should have perfect accuracy, since your units wouldn't want to dodge healing anyway.

Good to read this!

I accidently forgot that sleep, silence and berserk could miss in other games than in FE5 too (6-10).

The second poll was exclusively only focussed on all staves.

Have added this choice.