video series FE6 Reverse Recruitment Low Turns

[Espinosa]

Anyone noticed that Nomads are the easiest class to level in this game? Accurate 2-range and good mobility make them rack up so much experience during player phase, and it always pays in a game where everyone has to co-operate for kills.

Dayan has been getting absurdly good for me, and the RNG's helped him with that. Somehow, he's my highest-levelled unpromoted unit aside from Percival (who joined at lv. 9). The only reason to consider using Shin over him is Shin's better bulk (but in many situations, both are probably easy to 2HKO).

I don't think I'll have much trouble 4-turning chapter 6, though it'll be an effort to get the most out of it. Not having Rutger (and Karel won't be an alternative for a looooong time, if ever) should make bosskilling harder, however, but I'll have two dancers to help get multiple units across to the boss, maybe.

I think I'll skip the Silver Lance (no good users for it for a long while) and go for the 8K gold in the left portion of the map instead. Really running short on money and I need lots of Chest Keys without a Thief around until the desert.

[Achelexus]

Nomads also are glitched in FE6, they don't get hit for extra damage with anti-cavalry weapons, so they're pretty much unstoppable.

[Carmine Sword]

Troubadours and Valkyries aren't affected by anti-cavalry weapons either for some reason.

I didn't realize just how good Dayan's bases were, but they're pretty amazing. But with one stat level-ups, he might fall behind later.

[PKL]

Awesome stuff so far. I like how you show the new chars stats. :)

[Jedi]

Anyone noticed that Nomads are the easiest class to level in this game? Accurate 2-range and good mobility make them rack up so much experience during player phase, and it always pays in a game where everyone has to co-operate for kills.

Interesting thing I noticed when I was messing with character classes in Nightmare randomly. Almost anyone I made into a Nomad were suddenly 10x better. Including Roy

[Paperblade]

I just think they should stay consistant to what the weapon ranks were in the Vanilla game, it's just sloppily made imo.

Hugh's replacement randomly promotes, and in addition has double A weapon ranks too. Zeiss replaces Dieck, but Dieck doesn't replace Zeiss. It's just not very consistant.

It's still a fun patch nontheless though.

I honestly don't remember why I made these changes. I'm reading your posts and wondering why the fuck I did that since I didn't do that shit for FE7's

Probably Mekkah or someone convinced me to do it

edit: Actually it was probably SDS it sounds like something he'd do

- Can someone explain to me how Wendy can wield (D) axes as an unpromoted Knight?

This sounds like an oversight Edited April 3, 2015 by Paperblade

[Espinosa]

Nomads also are glitched in FE6, they don't get hit for extra damage with anti-cavalry weapons, so they're pretty much unstoppable.

tbqh

When you have 21 HP/4 def at base, and lousy growths to help remedy the issue, you have a lot more to be afraid of besides the Halberd.

Interesting thing I noticed when I was messing with character classes in Nightmare randomly. Almost anyone I made into a Nomad were suddenly 10x better. Including Roy

Nomad Roy would probably be the second best Lord in the series next to Sigurd, I imagine. +2 str/+1 spd would really make a difference, but great mobility and two-range would be far greater. If he had a bow with a Rapier effect somehow, that'd be pretty broken for all purposes.

[Espinosa]

Can you spot what is wrong with this image?

[chococoke]

Igrene got a sex change, so what? Maybe this playthrough wouldn't be so hard if you'd stop being so judgmental

[X-Naut]

Igrene has a twin brother with the same name

[Phantom037]

You're using a steel axe in FE6

[Espinosa]

Anything goes in LTC! After all, the most treasured weapons tend to be 1 or 2-use Hand Axes and Javelins.

[Lord Raven]

You're using a steel axe in FE6

50% of the time it works all the time. That's the mantra of the LTC.

[Espinosa]

Or it could work 20% of the time but deal sufficient weapon that another axe wouldn't be able to. Or it prevents the unit from doubling / allows them to miss giving the right set of RNs for a different round of combat / somebody's level-up. The more tools you've got the better it is for you.

Anyway, it's all been fun and games until now but how are we killing Leygance and Henning? Yuno is not doubling any of them while the others can hardly connect an attack / dent them at all. The answer is usually 'Swordmaster Rutger' but Karel is still 4/0 as of the beginning of chapter 7 (where he has to run around and recruit a ton of good units) with 6 str/5 spd, and I really don't think he'll get to level up 6 times until then.

Also, whoever made the patch rendered Lalum's def/res as 1/1 and not 2/4 as it should be. Can I edit this easily with the Nightmare modules? Because this is kinda bollocks and is very likely to ruin the run, because grinding Lalum/Elphin is a sure way to Sacae. Lalum is a green guest unit in Treck's place, by the way.

[Irysa]

Promote Echidna and pray rig so she connects a Killer Axe/Hammer. It's too bad she won't get D Swords on promotion to Hero for Armorslayer access. It's either that or attempt to feed as many kills as possible in the second half of the map to Fir, then promote her, and use the Armorslayer and Wo Dao.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Irysa

[Carmine Sword]

Maybe if you made the bosses appear in reverse order in addition to the recruitable units it might be possible. (The bosses would have lower bases based on the chapter you fight them in this hypothetical scenario.)

EDIT: Actually, that wouldn't even work since Leygance would be replaced with Roartz. Never mind.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Carmine Sword

[Espinosa]

I doubt I'll be replacing anyone this far into the game. Wouldn't know how, either way.

Echidna starting out unpromoted is a pretty big handicap on bosskilling to be sure, and I bet Karel will want Hero Crest whenever he gets to 10/0 anyway. I really don't see how I could get 7 levels for Fir in just the second half of chapter 8, even if she gets better stats and weaponry that Karel 1 level above her.

Killer weaponry is a good idea though, considering Shin brings a Killer Bow with him. Perhaps I could carry Dayan (he's been proccing str all over the place for me, but physically he's the same glass cannon he started out as) across the lava to Henning and see if I can get any luck critting him once or twice.

For Leygance, I probably do want both the Guiding Ring and the Elysian Whip, so somebody not going after the treasure with Chest Keys (remember, no thief) will just slowly go about the bosskilling. It could be Yuno with an Armorslayer (though her high movement makes her the best candidate for going after the treasure), Hugh with the basic Fire tome, or even Karel himself if he can survive a round of combat against the boss. Not sure how strong he will be by that point.

[Irysa]

I really don't see how I could get 7 levels for Fir in just the second half of chapter 8, even if she gets better stats and weaponry that Karel 1 level above her.

The enemies on that map are really overleveled compared to most of your units, and the reinforcement thieves have an EXP multiplier. If you take the time to slow down and feed Fir kills then I can see it happening, and it will very likely pay off, as Fir's promotion gains are extremely good and will turn her into a reliable bosskiller for the forseeable future. Killing Rutger and his reinforcement Thief will help as well since you aren't attempting complete recruitment, and he will be a royal pain if you are not prepared properly given I imagine he'll spawn as he does on vanilla FE6; aggressive with a Killing Edge.

I don't really think anyone but Fir will be able to reliably fight Henning given that you aren't doing extreme levelup rigging. Echidna either be stuck with an Iron Sword or at WTD with Axes vs an evasive boss on a throne. Klein, Shin and Dayan might make acceptable dents with Killer Bow crits but won't do enough to bring him down quickly. The wasted turns you will probably end up spending trying to weaken him down to kill range may very well be cut via putting all your eggs into the Fir basket in Chapter 8, so that you can cut turns later in 8x and beyond.

Honestly I think this patch should not have unpromoted Echidna and left her as a Hero with at least D Swords for Armorslayer use, and probably C for Killing Edge access to fight the next bunch of bosses, as either her or Fir are your only decent options. This patch seems quite unbalanced for Hard Mode.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Irysa

[Espinosa]

Their levels are high; sure, but 7 levels for a unit who starts in a rather uncomfortable position on one of the later turns? I think I'll have a bit more luck promoting Karel earlier (and even then it is questionable), since he is only 6 levels away from promotion and takes part in chapter 7 / first turns of chapter 8. Poorer stats though - but he can also take Fir's Wo Dao later on during chapter 8, and try critkilling some enemies he struggles to ORKO otherwise.

Karel also needs to be carried in the throne's direction anyway, so it's more efficient if he's the one foot unit who is capable of bosskilling without requiring an additional unit (we have two dancers with a ton of flexibility for logistics, remember that, though I don't understand the implications perfectly myself just yet).

I think there is some semblance of balance in the hack. Yuno getting a Silver Sword and A Swords instead of a lance direction like Marcus enables her to take on both armoured and axewielding bosses (since nobody else can really do that in Rutger's absence), Percival coming at a high level (he'd be pretty sad as a 1/0 Cav even if compared to Allence), Zeiss joining at a lower level so that you wouldn't be tempted to try soloing the game with him. Maybe Echidna being unpromoted is just part of that plan, but I do agree having her promoted would make some of the midgame bosses easier for us.

I also must mention that as of chapter 7, Miledy is higher-levelled than Zeiss, but their stats are approximately even. Not quite sure who will get promoted first. I probably am promoting Percival as soon as I get the Knight Crest though - or maybe not if it turns out it doesn't shave any turns off. He's been levelling so slowly that I didn't really bother investing into him much (his combat has been just 'passable').

[Irysa]

Unless you rigged multiple +2 speed levelups for Karel, if he's only 1 level higher he might actually have issues doubling some of the enemies on the map, What are his current stats? Remember that he gets only +1 speed on promotion compared to Fir as well. Also consider that you have less mounts to canto with in chapter 8 than vanilla, which makes rescuedropping constantly much more of a hassle even if you do have two dancers, and will likely affect the timing of when you manage to reach the point where Fir/Shin/Gonzales will spawn, which may result in Fir getting some more action in.

You'll likely disagree, but I think that the nature of bosses in this game is going to result in a turn exchanging scenario where slowing down early on to train Karel more would have ended up saving you turns and significant hassle. Not that I think you should neccessarily go back, but Henning is a serious douchebag if you're trying to low turn. Even a casual run with stronger units will spend many turns simply hoping someone connects consecutive Killing Edge crits on him, and without path tracing your ability to rig such occurances at natural sub 20% rates of success is very limited.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Irysa

[Espinosa]

Karel (as of chapter 7) vs. base Fir:

Karel 4/0 - 14 hp / 6 str / 8 skl / 5 spd / 4 lck / 4 def / 3 res

Fir 3/0 - 21 hp / 7 str / 10 skl / 11 spd / 4 lck / 3 def / 1 res

Fir is (initially) more capable of taking hits, can double with ease (unlike Karel who will have to pick up weakened enemies), hits slightly harder.

Average stats at 10/0:

Karel 10/0 - 26.6 hp / 13.8 str / 16.4 skl / 13.4 spd / 11.2 lck / 10.6 def / 9 res

Fir 10/0 - 26.5 hp / 8.75 str / 13.5 skl / 14.85 spd / 7.5 lck / 4.05 def / 2.4 res

Karel has a significant lead in strength, connects hits more accurately, almost catches up in speed, is much better at taking attacks from low atk enemies, will cause enemies to target frailer allies instead.

Average stats at 10/1:

Karel 10/1 - 31.6 hp / 15.8 str / 18.4 skl / 14.4 spd / 11.2 lck / 13.6 def / 11 res / 9 con

Fir 10/1 - 30.5 hp / 11.75 str / 15.5 skl / 16.85 spd / 7.5 lck / 7.05 def / 4.4 res / 6 con

Karel's bulk becomes wyvern-hard, but Fir is, as you stated, faster when neither is weighed down. Karel's extra 9 con enables him to actually be faster when using the Armorslayer or something like a Steel Sword (only a -1 spd penalty).

I think Karel's durability and potential to keep growing even promoted gives him the upper hand here, as being able to take a hit from one of those offensive juggernauts amongst bosses is a big deal.

It's still also up to debate whether it's good or bad that Karel is the one doing the bosskilling, because he could potentially seize when somebody else is doing that for him. If it's a bad idea for Karel to do the bosskilling, he needn't take the first Hero Crest at all.

tl;dr without taking any LTC specifics of playing the game with 2 dancers, a powerful Lord is preferred to having a weak Lord and a powerful secondary foot unit.

Are there any advantages to going to Sacae for a team without a good Warper? Turnwise or treasurewise maybe.

[Achelexus]

Are you planning on promoting Karel on level 10, though? It would make sense if this was a 0% growth rom, but since it isn't, wouldn't it be better on the long run to try to make Karel achieve level 20 before promoting?

[Excellen Browning]

For Karel, there's very little point to promoting him as late as possible because the only benefit to it is faster levelling. He will hit all of his caps regardless

[Yojinbo]

Hmmm, in my casual runs I just destroy Leygance with Karel. I'm not sure what works in an LTC setting though. Maybe a promoted Percival and Yuno can trade around the Armorslayer and kill him with the help of both dancers.

[Excellen Browning]

Another route would be to get Echidna to Leygance and have her hit him with the Hammer. And there's possible Shin/Dayan/Zeiss chip to boot to help kill him. I would be surprised if you didn't have enough firepower to take Leygance in one round, if at least theoretically.