Nerfs and Buffs you feel should be in the next Patch

[FlipFlopMist]

Palutena's neutral special is just sad, needs fixing.

Also, Palutena's customs suck, vanilla Palutena is the only way to go.

Super speed is one of the best moves in the game. And AR is poopy(not Heavenly Light poopy, but still), Explosive Flame is waaaaaay better. Jump Glide can compete with Teleport. Finally Lightweight is pretty handy if you play around it, though I'll be honest and say I can't find the point of Fireworks when you have Upsmash.

Marth and Lucina need range buffs as well as some buffs to lag-I wish Sockerai would also use these balance patchs to help further the differences between D-Pit/Pit and Marth/Lucina as right now there isn't much difference.

Metaknight is in a good spot, all he needs is one tiny buff towards his range and he'll be a solid character that can fight with the rest of the cast, but not dominate.

[Ein]

Ike being able to forward B without plummeting to his doom so he can up B just to have a chance to get back on the stage. Either his speed and/or range should be buffed and the Quickdraw into jab combo should be added back.

Ganondorf's forward B shouldn't be techable considering how difficult it is to land in the first place.

I don't quite understand why Luma is capable of KOing on its own. It's rather silly considering just how good Rosalina is on her own.

[Florete]

Also, Palutena's customs suck, vanilla Palutena is the only way to go.

What.

Superspeed, Lightweight, and Jump Glide can have Palutena moving around faster than Sonic and getting confirmed down throw to up air kills. Explosive Flame is also good.

Samus not losing her charge shot when interrupted while firing. Rob doesn't lose his, why should samus lose hers?

Probably because it's way more powerful. And R.O.B.'s charges over time, anyway.

[General Horace]

I think it'd be cool if Samus could charge her shot midair like Lucario or DK can with their charge moves.

I hope they unnerf DDD and buff DK though. Bad characters like Charizard hopefully get a little better too. Shiek and Diddy are really good, but I almost feel if you nerf what makes them good (too much) they become awful since they both have their issues still already.

[Vajra]

For Ike, these are buffs I'd like to see, if they are to happen (copy and pasted from my post on Smashboards):

In order of priority:

+ Aether can snap ledges backward again.

Not only will this save us from accidental SDs, but Ike will also regain his spiking game from SSBB.

+ Damage multiplier on Counter raised from 1.2x to 1.3x.

For a character that is known to hit hard, why is his Counter at least not more powerful than that of Marth and Lucina's?

+ D-air regains its lingering hitbox.

The stricter meteor hitbox does not bother me, but could you imagine what ledge trumping would be like if he had his D-air from SSBB?

+ Jab damage output increased from 11% to 12%.

How is it that Ike Jab cannot hit as hard, if not harder than Shulk's, who appears to be much less muscular than him?

+ F-air damage output increased from 12% to 13%.

Same as the above. Toon Link's F-air hits harder than that. You would think that a swift blow from a huge sword, like Ragnell, would inflict just as much, if not more damage than that.

Ike was buffed due to his placement in the last Japanese tier list, right? A few months later, despite considerable buffs, he is still near the bottom in the updated list. Could more buffs possibly be imminent?

^-^

Edited April 5, 2015 by Xuan Wu

[Jedi]

And who made you the official expert on who is good and who is bad?

I have tourney experience, last I checked most tier list makers are theorists, I'm not saying Ike is godly or doesn't need buffs I'm simply saying he's better than alot of people give him credit for, and isn't the first character to NEED buffs.

And last I checked, you don't have true tournament experience at all, not to be mean or anything, but challenging my experience belittles my knowledge and love for this series.

[Anacybele]

For a character that is known to hit hard, why is his Counter at least not more powerful than that of Marth and Lucina's?

I thought Ike's Counter WAS more powerful? Guess that got changed since Brawl, as he did have a stronger Counter than Marth there. Your ideas for Ike buffs sound good to me though!

I have tourney experience, last I checked most tier list makers are theorists, I'm not saying Ike is godly or doesn't need buffs I'm simply saying he's better than alot of people give him credit for, and isn't the first character to NEED buffs.

And last I checked, you don't have true tournament experience at all, not to be mean or anything, but challenging my experience belittles my knowledge and love for this series.

The thing is, EVERY tier list has Ike quite low, regardless of region or who made it. And I'm sure some of the people that made those lists DO have tourney experience.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Anacybele

[Zera]

Meta Knight's special moves shouldn't put him in the helpless state if they successfully connect in midair, like Ike's Quick Draw. To balance it, just make it so they can't be used more than once without touching the ground, like ZSS's Flip Jump. Or just fix his range.

Actually, there are quite a few characters that would benefit from being able to use specials in midair without SDing.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Zera

[Vajra]

I thought Ike's Counter WAS more powerful? Guess that got changed since Brawl, as he did have a stronger Counter than Marth there. Your ideas for Ike buffs sound good to me though!

Ike's Counter is disappointing, isn't it? Marth's Counter was buffed to 1.2x from SSBB and is now as powerful as Ike's. In default settings, according to the following thread, Little Mac, Palutena, and Shulk have the strongest counters, each with a 1.3x damage multiplier.

http://smashboards.com/threads/counters-reflectors-and-absorbs-wip.369298/

In a customs environment, however, Ike and Shulk have the strongest counters, each with a 1.5x damage multiplier; unfortunately, Ike's Smash Counter is slow and would have otherwise been his best counter move.

[Comet]

something i forgot: donkey kong going into the helpless state after doing a giant punch in the air is dumb.

[Anacybele]

Ike's Counter is disappointing, isn't it? Marth's Counter was buffed to 1.2x from SSBB and is now as powerful as Ike's. In default settings, according to the following thread, Little Mac, Palutena, and Shulk have the strongest counters, each with a 1.3x damage multiplier.

http://smashboards.com/threads/counters-reflectors-and-absorbs-wip.369298/

In a customs environment, however, Ike and Shulk have the strongest counters, each with a 1.5x damage multiplier; unfortunately, Ike's Smash Counter is slow and would have otherwise been his best counter move.

Geez, that's just weird... Disappointing indeed.

[Mighty Kamina]

Buffs

Shulk: Make N-air and jab come out slightly faster (Also fix jab 2-3 not consistently connecting on floaty characters), and slightly increase grab range. (His grab range is shorter than Pikachu's or pretty close to it)

Ganondorf: Lower landing lag on F-air and B-air. Also make U-tilt an instant kill. Anyone who gets hit by it is clearly doing something wrong.

Ike: Make F-tilt and N-air slightly faster.

Marth and Lucina: Increase range, and lower ending lag/landing lag on all moves.

Little Mac: Bring aerial Side-B's range back to what it used to be.

Greninja: Lower ending lag on Neutral-B.

Wii-Fit Trainer: Make hitboxes more consistent.

Palutena: Lower ending lag on tilts.

Falco: Make D-air come out faster, and decrease end lag on lasers.

Dr. Mario: Make F-air spike, decrease end lag on down-B, and increase up-B's distance.

Zelda: Let her act after using Din's Fire in the air.

Nerfs:

Diddy Kong: Make him so bad that he's unusable Nerf U-air and F-air's speed, range, and kill power. Make D-throw's trajectory and distance be unable to be followed up on.

Sheik: Increase F-air's knockback so it's harder to chain, but can be used to kill. Also increase Bouncing Fish's end lag should the attack be blocked.

Sonic: No kill throws.

Ness: Lower back-throw's killing power.

Yoshi: Lower D-air's damage, and reduced armor on aerials.

That's all I can really think of right now... (Also yes, I do hate Diddy Kong and every Kong except for Donkey Kong quite strongly, outside of Smash and in Smash.)

Edited April 5, 2015 by Monado Boy

[Misses Elise-chan!]

Little Mac needs more than just increased side special range.

Little Mac needs more flinch resistance. He is a boxer and is supposed to be durable and sturdy. If he is a ground fighter, it should be hard to take him off the ground. Little Mac was one of my most wanted characters and I was upset when I heard all the news of him being terrible, I then gave up him as most people did. If possible his grab knockback should be decreased specifically for him. Boxers need to be able to stand their ground.

[euklyd]

can we talk about marth not being able to capitalize on his grabs

[Carter]

I don't really like the end-lag on Peach's aerial Peach Bomber. I'd like for that to be fixed, but I could live with it, seeing as how her parasol covers a lot of horizontal distance anyways.

And I know Lucas isn't really here yet, but I'm hoping for a buff for his character when eventually released. I like how his forward PSI Magnet had a hitbox, but only if the opponent is still there when you release the button. I wish opponents would get hit just for running into it, because the PSI Magnet does have some end-lag. Not to mention the damage given was weak anyways.

Zelda should be given the running speed of Peach. Now with this last buff, there isn't any true reason, it's more of just my bias for Zelda (plus she's suh-LOW)

[Samias]

I just want to see, in general, more moves hook up into each other for actual combos. Is Diddy's easy combo really a big issue, or is it that the rest of the cast doesn't really have a good way to keep an opponent juggled when they get a chance? Right now it's incredibly hard to get a good combo chain on a punish on *any* character. If anything, everyone else should rise to Diddy and Sheik's level rather than nerf them so no one has good follow-ups. I don't necessarily want it to Melee or Project M levels of speed but it's so hard to chase down KOs in this game...

I think the characters who suffered the most from the lack of follow-ups is Marth/Lucina. No more double fair, disjointed hitbox is now beat out by a much larger portion of the cast, and endlag on moves makes any wiff (and even hits!) incredibly punishable. I have a better combo game on Jiggs...

Also, no more helpless state on Din's Fire on Zelda. Please. PLEASE, is that so much to ask for?!

Edited April 6, 2015 by Samias

[DeadGame]

I can only speak for characters I'm truely familiar with.

Ike for example needs to be able to grab the ledge from behind again after performing Aether.

Additionally, it'd majorly improve his agility to be able to jump out of his Side-Special when performed on the ground.. while we're at it, his Side-Special should work like it does in Project M*, exept for that OHKO, haha.

*Besides being able to jump out of it, the attack should be performed manually by pressing B, while not attacking should result in passing through the enemy.

About Bowser.. he seems solid.

[euklyd]

dude can you imagine for glory if it OHKO'd

that would be amazing

(also, what about the walljump from side-b?)

[NinjaMonkey]

DK's Giant Punch needs to do more damage/knock back.

Also, Little Mac needs a nerf.

Edited April 9, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Mighty Kamina]

I can only speak for characters I'm truely familiar with.

Ike for example needs to be able to grab the ledge from behind again after performing Aether.

Additionally, it'd majorly improve his agility to be able to jump out of his Side-Special when performed on the ground.. while we're at it, his Side-Special should work like it does in Project M*, exept for that OHKO, haha.

I totally forgot about Project M Ike's Side-B when making my post. That would be amazing if Ike's Side-B could be jumped out of, and if you could decide when/if the attack goes off.

[euklyd]

Project M aerial quickdraw still leaves you helpless in free fall, right? assuming you don't walljump it

e: clarity

Edited April 7, 2015 by Euklyd

[Jedi]

Project M aerial quickdraw still leaves you helpless in free fall, right? assuming you don't walljump ite: clarity

Yes it still does, but the added wall jump makes it so much better as does the choice to attack or not.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i don't play him, but DK seriously needs help.

why is his little buddy literally in top tier while the big monkey himself is near the bottom.

unless its been updated without me knowing.

[Jedi]

i don't play him, but DK seriously needs help.

why is his little buddy literally in top tier while the big monkey himself is near the bottom.

unless its been updated without me knowing.

There are some really successful DK players in the meta currently. Such as Will who beat M2Ks Diddy in a full set and done many other great things.

[MarkofGrima]

Mewtwo's coming to Smash 4 along with Lucas? Better nerf Greninja.



All joking aside, I'd say Marth/Lucina need some sort of buff, like the fact that they need longer swords. I always feel like I give tips with Marth, only for it to fall short of the table. (Chrom's Master Puntician is always ready.)
Robin...Oh Robin. Why in Naga's name does he have a slower dash than Ganondorf? Are Frederick's exercise routines not canon? I mean I can play him just fine, but it would help if he could approach quicker for punishes.
And for the love of God, why rolls are so easy hard to punish? I've faced so many on 3DS who just roll away and use projectiles. Characters I play (Robin, Marth/Lucina, Ganondorf, Link, Fabulous Falcon) don't have much options for punishing said tactic other than direct approaches and bullet hell dodging.
Though, this is all from my experiences. I don't really know if any character really needs a buff, as they seem fine to me as they are. Only a few need to have some sort of nerf/buff that is minor.