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Low manning taken to the extreme


Jedi
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I was chatting with some fellow FE players about how effective lowmanning is in an FE, how balance typically (usually) is skewed, how would people react if there was a FE with a small elite force who can all do different tasks, with a lord who is the only (weaker) unit, but had the potential of surpassing them all?

I was merely curious what people thought about an FE with 8-10ish units basically.

Edited by Jedi
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Surely an Ike solo of PoR is as extreme as you can get in terms of low-manning...

Well, my concept is basically a forced low-man of sorts because you don't really have a choice lol. I once soloed most of PoR with Slim Swords so theres that too.

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People do it anyway, but I like having a bit of choice.

Since most of my teams are 90% Magic users/archers, having 8 units available would be something like this:

Lord

Cavalier 1

Cavalier 2

Jagen

Archer

Pegasus Knight

Mage

Healer

When I'd rather have

Lord

Mage 1

Mage 2

Pegasus Knight

Archer

Healer

Monk

Shaman

Idk another Pegasus or maybe a myrmidon?

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People do it anyway, but I like having a bit of choice.

Since most of my teams are 90% Magic users/archers, having 8 units available would be something like this:

Lord

Cavalier 1

Cavalier 2

Jagen

Archer

Pegasus Knight

Mage

Healer

When I'd rather have

Lord

Mage 1

Mage 2

Pegasus Knight

Archer

Healer

Monk

Shaman

Idk another Pegasus or maybe a myrmidon?

I see I see, yeah I know quite a few people lowman as is. It's interesting, and you're right choice is nice, but what if people had little choice and had to lowman in that respect? Would it be interesting? Or just plain stupid.

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I see I see, yeah I know quite a few people lowman as is. It's interesting, and you're right choice is nice, but what if people had little choice and had to lowman in that respect? Would it be interesting? Or just plain stupid.

I'd probably dump all my EXP into the Merric expy, the Gordin expy, the Caeda and Lena expies, and the lord. So I guess I'll live I just would really hope that they aren't bad characters.
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I'd probably dump all my EXP into the Merric expy, the Gordin expy, the Caeda and Lena expies, and the lord. So I guess I'll live I just would really hope that they aren't bad characters.

Well mainly the concept I was rolling in my head is that the whole group has major experience in fights, ASIDE from the lord. To make it weird :P

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Well mainly the concept I was rolling in my head is that the whole group has major experience in fights, ASIDE from the lord. To make it weird :P

So everybody is Seth except the lord? Or is everybody Jagen?

Because if it's the former, there'd have to be something like FE9's Ashnard fight to ensure that the lord gets to see some battle.

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if the game had low numbers to enforce lowmanning, people would just lowerman it, s'what i figure

Unless it was somehow designed to use every member effectively, but at that point it becomes a forced puzzle game I suppose.

@Glac, more so Jeigan, not on Seth's level unless the game was intended to be INCREDIBLY difficult to need such strength.

Edited by Jedi
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Unless it was somehow designed to use every member effectively, but at that point it becomes a forced puzzle game I suppose.

@Glac, more so Jeigan, not on Seth's level unless the game was intended to be INCREDIBLY difficult to need such strength.

Ohhh okay.

In that case, it'll really depend on how much I like the lord. So long as he/she isn't another Ike, I like the idea, it could put a lot more emphasis on character writing. And that's good.

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Unless it was somehow designed to use every member effectively, but at that point it becomes a forced puzzle game I suppose.

you can't stop the signal, mal. there's always a way.

EDIT: wot i want to see is a game that does a good job actually making it a good idea for you to use a rotating party without A: being forced to (hello smt4) or B: being obnoxious about it (hello xcom long war)

Edited by Integrity
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Ohhh okay.In that case, it'll really depend on how much I like the lord. So long as he/she isn't another Ike, I like the idea, it could put a lot more emphasis on character writing. And that's good.

Elite force with some kind of Fledgling leader. Heck he/she may not even be the leader in terms of the game until sometime later.

you can't stop the signal, mal. there's always a way.EDIT: wot i want to see is a game that does a good job actually making it a good idea for you to use a rotating party without A: being forced to (hello smt4) or B: being obnoxious about it (hello xcom long war)

Final Fantasy X did a decent job and a few other games but, yeah I'd like to see this as well. I'd like to conceptualize an FE or just a game in general that benefits from having a diverse squad.
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so like project dondon basically

except replace "elite" with "scrub"

A little bit! Although I don't think I'd have anything as cool as your Barth :P.
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It would be an interesting change, for sure. I don't know if I can say it would be for the better, as it would probably eliminate most replay value. It would make balancing easier, but balance isn't really all it's cracked up to be, especially in a single-player game.

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part of the problem with the elite squad concept is that if someone dies, you have fewer or zero replacement options. fire emblem maps are really only fun when the player has control over a minimum number of units, so the difference in size between the starting roster and the final roster is pretty small. this means that there's not much room for recruitable characters.

i like the elite squad concept in that it's great for making the player adapt to situations outside of his comfort range, so if i ever design a ROMhack again, that's what i'd do. but fire emblem's appeal is that it has a variety of characters available for a player to choose from.

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It would be an interesting change, for sure. I don't know if I can say it would be for the better, as it would probably eliminate most replay value. It would make balancing easier, but balance isn't really all it's cracked up to be, especially in a single-player game.

Noted, yeah balance is a bit of a goofy thing to try to focus on in fe I suppose. I think I still may be trying this avenue at some point.

part of the problem with the elite squad concept is that if someone dies, you have fewer or zero replacement options. fire emblem maps are really only fun when the player has control over a minimum number of units, so the difference in size between the starting roster and the final roster is pretty small. this means that there's not much room for recruitable characters.

i like the elite squad concept in that it's great for making the player adapt to situations outside of his comfort range, so if i ever design a ROMhack again, that's what i'd do. but fire emblem's appeal is that it has a variety of characters available for a player to choose from.

Yeah that is pretty much FEs main appeal factor, perhaps this may be a tad too far out of its comfort zone to do. Hmm. Edited by Jedi
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It would be an interesting concept. However, it also makes you much more susceptible to the rng. For example in FE6, if Thany doesn't turn out well, I can always replace her with Tate. But in a game where you have limited unit options you don't have that luxury. Even a Seth-like character can be bad if they get poor level ups.

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It would be an interesting concept. However, it also makes you much more susceptible to the rng. For example in FE6, if Thany doesn't turn out well, I can always replace her with Tate. But in a game where you have limited unit options you don't have that luxury. Even a Seth-like character can be bad if they get poor level ups.

Well with a small group of high levels and prepromotes you wouldn't have to worry about the RNG quite as much, but I do see your point. Maybe a fighting group the size of Lyn modes group or slightly bigger/smaller?
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