Saladus Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) You have Validar going around getting beaten and/or outmaneuvered outside of backstory. You have Grima sitting around and having his forces chase the gemstones instead of freeing his present body ASAP. Contrast them to Manfloy. Who actually wins outside of backstory. Edited April 12, 2015 by Saladus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 You have Grima sitting around and having his forces chase the gemstones instead of freeing his present body ASAP. I agree with you, but isn't the point of going after the gemstones so he can free his current body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I just hope they have reasons beyond "hurr durr big evil dragon eats everybody" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saladus Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 He didn't need the gemstones. Grima was able to free his present body without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) He didn't need the gemstones. Grima was able to free his present body without them.No he couldn't...? To awaken Grima, they needed two things: a vessel that would work (so Robin) and performing the Awakening ritual at the Dragon's Table. Which requires a complete Fire Emblem. Edit: Really, the reason he went for the gemstones makes sense. The reason they're evil does not. Especially Validar. Edited April 12, 2015 by Glaceon Lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 If the antagonists were actually effective, then you wouldn't be able to ever beat them, thus making the game unwinnable from the start. So what's the point of buying this game (let alone playing it)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 If the antagonists were actually effective, then you wouldn't be able to ever beat them, thus making the game unwinnable from the start. So what's the point of buying this game (let alone playing it)? The antagonists should win at least a little to make them actually intimidating. Like how Gharnef comes after you early in FE1/11 and you can't beat him yet. (More of a gameplay example, but my point) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saladus Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) No he couldn't...? To awaken Grima, they needed two things: a vessel that would work (so Robin) and performing the Awakening ritual at the Dragon's Table. Which requires a complete Fire Emblem.The present Robin didn't become Grima, and Validar failed to fetch all the gemstones. Grima still freed her present body.He didn't need the gemstones or the present Robin. Edited April 16, 2015 by Saladus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The present Robin didn't become Grima and Validar failed to fetch all the gemstones. Grima still freed her present body. He didn't need the gemstones or the present Robin. He wanted to alter Lucina's attempt at altering her future. Future!Robin was already Grima... I forget where I was going with this, FE13 is riddled with plot holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 We were talking about whether or not the FE needed to have all the gems in it to free Grima. (Apparently not...?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomSwordmaster Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 We were talking about whether or not the FE needed to have all the gems in it to free Grima. (Apparently not...?) All he needed was sufficient human sacrifice apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENS Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Grima was an eldricht abomination, sealed like Cthulhu. But, anyway. Yes, that's a good point: a crafty and effective villain make a story a lot better. Edited April 12, 2015 by ENS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I have a feeling that Ganon isn't the sole major antagonist, and that one of the antagonists is related to the Hoshido royal line. That would be interesting. Anyway, a villain like Alvis, Manfroy and Lehran would be more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I'd like Garon to NOT say any of the following phrases: "You can't defeat me, I'M INVINCIBLE." "NO, IMPOSSIBLE." (proceeds to immediately die) I know humility is asking for a lot, but it'd probably help them with their chances of success if they acknowledge something may go wrong with their grand evil scheme and they're ready to adapt to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saladus Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Grima was an eldricht abomination, sealed like Cthulhu. That's an insult to Cthulhu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Giamatti Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Yeah, giving the antagonists small victories to move the plot is always a good idea. It doesn't has to be something so drastic as Alvis/Manfloy in FE4, but other things like Nergal kidnapping Ninian, or Lyon using stupid plot powers to destroy the sacred stone. It's cool to have antagonists that actually do things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I'm at least asking for semi competence and more of a reason then "cause i'm evil" or "religion" i hate it when games use religion as a plot device to make characters evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomSwordmaster Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I'm at least asking for semi competence and more of a reason then "cause i'm evil" or "religion" i hate it when games use religion as a plot device to make characters evil. Eh, it's happened through out history, though i do hope it's something more this time. Walhart actually had a reason for his actions, instead of arbitrary invasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saladus Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) I'm at least asking for semi competence and more of a reason then "cause i'm evil" or "religion" i hate it when games use religion as a plot device to make characters evil. Is it a problem if the worshipers have a developed ideology, unlike the Grimleal? Edited April 12, 2015 by Saladus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Is it a problem if the worshipers have a developed ideology? its not as long as it makes some sense and they go into detail with the explanation. none of this "people worship an evil dragon that eats them because..." they have a vore fetish? i dunno i'm just guessing here. Eh, it's happened through out history, though i do hope it's something more this time. Walhart actually had a reason for his actions, instead of arbitrary invasion. i know it has but i see it so often and so many times its underdeveloped, as someone of religion i don't entirely like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) The Grimleal had literally no motivation to worship Grima(I could imagine a few crazies taking to him, but not a large population), the Lopt peeps had an empire promised to them (which Loptyr even delivered on), Grima didn't even bother to lie with something like "you get to go to an awesome afterlife! in my stomach." Edited April 12, 2015 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Don't a lot of games do this already? Many games start with an enemy nation rofl stomping your country or perhaps several (Path of Radiance and Sealed Sword) so that's a villain victory. As mentioned before, Blazing Sword had Nergal continuing to wreck everyone's shit throughout the game and Sacred Stone's Lyon destroyed ALL of the stones except for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttocksinator Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The Grimleal had literally no motivation to worship Grima(I could imagine a few crazies taking to him, but not a large population), the Lopt peeps had an empire promised to them (which Loptyr even delivered on), Grima didn't even bother to lie with something like "you get to go to an awesome afterlife! in my stomach." Very much this, the Grimleal would have made much more interesting baddies if their religion made any sense whatsoever. Worship the fell dragon so that your soul can be devoured by it just like everyone else? What is the point? I could understand a handful of children being conditioned from birth to find some twisted strand of logic there but an entire nation? No, that's absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomSwordmaster Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Very much this, the Grimleal would have made much more interesting baddies if their religion made any sense whatsoever. Worship the fell dragon so that your soul can be devoured by it just like everyone else? What is the point? I could understand a handful of children being conditioned from birth to find some twisted strand of logic there but an entire nation? No, that's absurd. Well, they have a choice: either deal with Gangrel and his idiocy and oppresiveness...as well as poverty and ruin after his death, or worship a doomsday cult. Apparently, people chose doomsday cult over pain and suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saladus Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) That's not acceptable. The game never properly addresses what the Grimleal get out of helping Grima. No civilization has had ''destroy humanity'' as a cause among the major worshipers. Satanists at large don't. Neither did the worshipers of Quetzalcoatl. Edited April 13, 2015 by Saladus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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