MEG IS AWESOME

[momogeek2141]

Oh. That makes more sense. Still doesn't ad to the Meg>Edward argument.

[Kirara]

Reforge, as in using the Hammerne to restore the uses of a weapon. The Res part is enough for me. What I want from non-magical units is to be able to walk around freely without having to be scared of any kind of enemy. With Meg's superior Res and Luck, she is the safer bet between these two.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Kirara

[Just call me AL]

Dude. FE7 has some of the best prepromotes in the series holy crap. Like Pent, Isadora, Geitz, Harken, Marcus, Vaida (even if her con kinda sucks), etc. Maaaaaannnn....

That's pretty much what I said to him too. But somehow, he wasn't convinced. For starters, when I posted a pro-Pent argument, he thought the fact that I brought up Pent's stats in comparison with others in his class shot my own argument down. Even though I also brought up stuff like the fact that Pent's promoted or his A in staves. Yeah, how that works is beyond me.

I don't know what game you've played, but I never got the other Marshalls' res high enough to tank a crts. so easily. Even the regular magic attacks were sometimes enough to cause damage. Though I think Brom was an exception as well.

Meg's 20/20/20 stats

HP 60, Str 34.25, Mag 15.25, Skl 32, Spd 32, Lck 30, Def, 34.25, Res 32

Tauroneo's xx/20/20 stats

HP 55.75, Str 36, Mag 17.25, Skl 34, Spd 31, Lck 23, Def 34.25, Res 30

Brom's xx/20/20 stats

HP 60, Str 35.8, Mag 9.85, Skl 33.8, Spd, 29.1, Lck 30, Def 36, Res 22.25

Gatrie's xx/20/20 stats

HP 58.5, Str 36, Mag 10.45, Skl 33.05, Spd 31, Lck 23.7, Def 37, Res 25.15

Wind Spirit lvl 20 battle data (w/Wind Tail)

HP 38, Atk 39, Spd 30, Hit 176, Avo 90, Def 23, Res 32, Crit 0, Ddg 30

Fire Spirit lvl 20 battle data (w/Fire Tail)

HP 40, Atk 36, Spd 30, Hit 171, Avo 90, Def 25, Res 30, Crit 0, Ddg 30

Thunder Spirit lvl 20 battle data (w/Thunder Tail)

HP 38, Atk 36, Spd 28, Hit 165, Avo 86, Def 23, Res 30, Crit 0, Ddg 30

I don't see how any of them, assuming they even get to 20/20/20 in the first place, are even having trouble with surviving a hit from anything the Spirits dish out, based on the enemy battle data seen here alone. Meg's taking the least (4-7), Brom's taking the most (14-17). But there isn't (or shouldn't be) much difference in how much damage either one takes, considering that stat boosters and BEXP exists. And theyre only getting hit once too. So I cant imagine it being a big deal unless youre fast-playing. (In which case, why are you even using Marshalls in the first place?)

Average stats for reference

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/meg/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/tauroneo/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/brom/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/gatrie/

And I don't remember any other playable Marshall knight handling SS swords or axes either, with Brom being the exception as always

Urvan doesnt have 1-2 range, though. Alondite (which Meg can use), and the Wishblade (which Gatrie and Tauroneo both can use), on the other hand, do.

My problem with Edward was that his Spd was never as as good as his Res was bad. In matter of durability against non-magical beorcs he was better than Meg, but he was quite fucked when he was ganged up on by magical units. The accuracy of attacks was also a big factor here, because he had difficulties handling Laguz as well. I would pick Edward over Stefan and Lucia though. And I suppose if Elincia's Amiti could be traded, I would've also found a place for Edward in my endgame team.

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/edward/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/zihark/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/lucia/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/mia/

http://serenesforest.net/radiant-dawn/characters/average-stats/stefan/

I dunno. All of the Trueblades' Spd look pretty identical at equal levels. As for bad Res, well, no duh. Trueblades in this game aren't exactly known for having high Res. And I dont even know how they're even having accuracy problems in the first place. Swords are pretty accurate, and every Trueblade is expected to cap Skl anyways.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Just call me AL

[momogeek2141]

Reforge, as in using the Hammerne to restore the uses of a weapon. The Res part is enough for me. What I want from non-magical units is to be able to walk around freely without having to be scared of any kind of enemy. With Meg's superior Res and Luck, she is the safer bet between these two.

So luck makes her the safer bet.

...

HAHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh my god guys, luck is is the new best stat! Seriously, Meg's offence sucks. Obviously having luck and res is FAR more important that actually having STR AND A GOOD SPD CAP. "But wait, Meg has more Str at 20/20/20!" Good luck getting her there with the exp cut in HM.

[Kirara]

There are more than just anima, who fail to perform critical hits anyway. There are also dragons and mages and I have experienced my Marshalls taking a critical hits often enough and even dying with lvl 20 in third tier. And as I said, I would never waste a lance on a Marshall if I can pick two out of three Senitels. The Urvan not having a larger range is basically relevant, but not a matter of this discussion. The Res part distinguishes Meg from actual Sword Masters. It's not enough to put her above Mia and Zihark, but makes her a slightly better choice than Edward.

Luck is just a side factor but yes. it is also a reason. I don't mind if the character kills slowly if the character doesn't have problems surviving in the first place and is likely enough to actually perform the calculated damage.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Kirara

[Just call me AL]

There are more than just anima, who fail to perform critical hits anyway. There are also dragons and mages and I have experienced my Marshalls taking a critical hits often enough and even dying with lvl 20 in third tier.

The highest Crit rate any of them are facing at max level is 5-12 at best. And that's from Sephy alone. Everyone else but the Double Bow Sniper, the Arcthunder Thunder Sage, and the Wo-Dao Swordmaster, have practically nonexistent crit rates on them.

And as I said, I would never waste a lance on a Marshall if I can pick two out of three Senitels.

Tomahawks and Brave Axes also exist. And Gatrie and Tauroneo can use them.

The Urvan not having a larger range is basically relevant, but not a matter of this discussion.

So you'd rather have a Marshall take a counter without attacking? I'm sorry if I have a hard time trying to understand the logic behind this, but why? Giving them a 1-2 range weapon would save some trouble in trying to have them kill enemies. I'd say that's reason enough for it to be relevant.

The Res part distinguishes Meg from actual Sword Masters. It's not enough to put her above Mia and Zihark, but makes her a slightly better choice than Edward.

What exactly am I reading here? How is she a "better" choice than Edward when she requires more effort to use than he does? As I showed you already, my post on the first page of this topic pretty much spells out why Meg isn't a better choice than Edward is. I mean, for crying out loud, even both Red Fox's and Soul's tier lists place Edward in Mid tier while Meg is in Bottom tier. Shouldn't that say something about whether Meg is worse than Edward or not? Edited April 23, 2015 by Just call me AL

[Florete]

Luck and Resistance are the most important stats.

In this hypothetical world that is definitely not our own, I can see Meg being a great unit.

[momogeek2141]

There are more than just anima, who fail to perform critical hits anyway. There are also dragons and mages and I have experienced my Marshalls taking a critical hits often enough and even dying with lvl 20 in third tier. And as I said, I would never waste a lance on a Marshall if I can pick two out of three Senitels. The Urvan not having a larger range is basically relevant, but not a matter of this discussion. The Res part distinguishes Meg from actual Sword Masters. It's not enough to put her above Mia and Zihark, but makes her a slightly better choice than Edward.

Luck is just a side factor but yes. it is also a reason. I don't mind if the character kills slowly if the character doesn't have problems surviving in the first place and is likely enough to actually perform the calculated damage.

She is a TERRIBLE option because, for the nth time, HER SPEED CAP SUCKS. Mages only exist in late endgame, where you can easily Royal rush and kill Sephy before they become a threat. For Ashera, Meg can't kill shit because her mov and speed prevent her from doing so. Eddie at leas can double with Alondite. Although the real MVP is Jill.

If you don't mind how much damage one does, then that's great for YOU. That does NOT distinguish her as a good character because good characters kill easily. The priority for good units is, in order:

Able to kill stuff

Ability to see combat

Ability to counterattack

Defenses.

Meg fails the first two because of her growths and class. The third is only achievable with crappy wind edges until Alondite, and even the last she isn't very good at unless it's a mage, who are rare, especially for DB. SHE FAILS ALL FOUR. Eddie on the other hand isn't good at the bottom two, but he can kill stuff, and has more mov than Meg allowing him to see combat.

[-Cynthia-]

Meg probably fails the first two more due to her bases than her growths to be fair- her growths are ok I guess but not good enough to prop up her bases.

This is mostly speaking about HM though- on Normal there's a lot more BEXP so maybe she's more salvageable due to availability? Still better choices available, but would be easier I imagine.

[Radiant head]

Everyone is easier to use in Normal Mode, but Meg is still pretty bad. It's easier to train her to tier 3 (still kind of hard though), but by the time she can pay off in Part 4, low movement and bad speed cap renders her totally useless. At least Fiona has the potential of mount, Wishblade, and 34 speed.

I think Easy Mode is the only one where she's usable.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Radiant head

[Kirara]

Dude. Your blood pressure.

Meg has the speed of a Sword Master, what are you talking about? And it's not like she needs more than at most two round to finish an opponent off. Also who gives a shit about what you think is more important. What's more important to me is that the character can be ganged up on without being endangered. The movement range is also just one point lower. In all my playthroughs that never even made a difference. It makes a difference when your character can't dodge well and needs to be able to escape quickly. I never had any difficulties with that. And as long as the character doesn't have the Str growth of a Heron, he'll be able to kill characters quickly enough in any case with good accuracy and reaching the third tier. I mainly play in hard, never had any kind of difficulties with either of these things.

[momogeek2141]

Sorry about the BP, but look. I'm stating what everyone thinks is important, not what you think. She has the speed GROWTH of a swordmaster, but her 32 speed cap severely limits her usefulness. Eddie's speed cap of 40 allows him to double pretty much all enemies in the game. He can dodge fairly well because of this, and Caladbolg adds to it. Course, you wouldn't use it after Alondite. 1 point of movement often makes a big difference, because it stacks up over turns. A unit that one rounds is instantly better than one that two rounds. Which is why Meg is better than scrubs like Leonardo.

Edited April 23, 2015 by momogeek2141

[Florete]

Meg has the speed of a Sword Master

Meg's tier 2 Speed cap: 22

SM tier 2 speed cap: 30

Meg's tier 3 Speed cap: 32

SM tier 3 Speed cap: 40

Meg has trouble doubling enemies in Normal mode. That is not "the speed of a Sword Master."

[Kirara]

Yeah, but I know better. And 32 is not low. Due to her growth stat she's likely to reach that limit, and it's, while it's of course far inferior to an actual True Blade's cap, enough to deal with the majority of enemies when it comes to doubling. And Meg barely even actually needs so much more time than others to kill, though it doesn't matter in her case because if it doesn't affect shit anyway. She has a hard time actually receiving damage in the first place, so what's wrong with enemy units maybe being able to attack her one more time? As long as she has no other weak and unprotected units around her, which is admittedly something she is not very good for, it makes no difference.

[momogeek2141]

If she's not one rounding even with her cap of 32, she sucks. Which she does. If you train her, you can use her for 1-2 range to chip a ton of enemies and then feed kills to units that are actually good, but she will not fill a huge Niche in Endgame. Might as well deploy Haar, right?

[Florete]

Doesn't it stand to reason that a unit who kills faster than another has an advantage over that unit? The problem with killing in two rounds exists when other units can kill in one. And if you can use Meg in Hard mode, you should be good enough at the game such that units who kill in one round aren't in danger of dying, because this game's enemies aren't that strong.

You're hyping up Meg's durability as the reason she's so useful (which is funny because hers isn't even very good on account of 60/35 HP/Def growths), but as long as others can kill faster, reach enemies quicker, and still not die, there's no point to her.

[Ownagepuffs]

32 speed cap isn't even bad. If you're Haar, that is

Anyway, Kirara, you seem to value Meg because she can survive getting ganged up on (she really can't, but whatever). There are very few situations in the game that a unit will get ganged up on in Meg's existence if you're using all your units.

1-4 has low enemy density

1-5 has high initial enemy density but Sothe and Volug easily stomp this map

1-6-1 Taur and Sothe spam.

1-6-2 Taur purchases a ticket for Jill Airlines and then shoves a silver lance up the boss's ass

1-7 there's high enemy density up the north but why are you going that way? Also LEA stomp.

1-8 Zihark, Sothe, Volug, Nailah, and LEA spam

1-E well a unit can get ganged up on here towards the top but we have a Royal and the goddamn Black Knight here. Jill and Volug can hold their own as well

3-6 well the point of this map is to not get ganged up on because those Tigers will fuck you up real fast. I can't even begin to imagine what sort of effort one would need to exert to prepare Meg for this map.

3-12 now it's very possible for your units to get ganged up on because of the really high enemy density. But there are allies and chokes to help mitigate this.

3-13 you want to end this map as soon as possible. Maybe Meg can 2 turn it with Luna and Celerity? How she'll get there is beyond me.

Lol Meg in Silver Army. Lol Meg in Hawk Army. Maybe Meg in Greil? 4-1 you can get ganged up on if you go south but for the love of Ashera we have the Greil Mercs now. Besides, Ike spam. Mia with Tempest Blade can join the fun. 4-4 is ledges which Meg hates. 4-E hates Marshalls altogether.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[Shadow Mir]

There are more than just anima, who fail to perform critical hits anyway. There are also dragons and mages and I have experienced my Marshalls taking a critical hits often enough and even dying with lvl 20 in third tier. And as I said, I would never waste a lance on a Marshall if I can pick two out of three Senitels. The Urvan not having a larger range is basically relevant, but not a matter of this discussion. The Res part distinguishes Meg from actual Sword Masters. It's not enough to put her above Mia and Zihark, but makes her a slightly better choice than Edward.

Luck is just a side factor but yes. it is also a reason. I don't mind if the character kills slowly if the character doesn't have problems surviving in the first place and is likely enough to actually perform the calculated damage.

Spoken like someone who either never even played the game or is pulling stuff out of their ass. What do the other Marshalls fear crits from? Killer weapons that are laughable? Swordmasters that they laugh at?

Dude. Your blood pressure.

Meg has the speed of a Sword Master, what are you talking about? And it's not like she needs more than at most two round to finish an opponent off. Also who gives a shit about what you think is more important. What's more important to me is that the character can be ganged up on without being endangered. The movement range is also just one point lower. In all my playthroughs that never even made a difference. It makes a difference when your character can't dodge well and needs to be able to escape quickly. I never had any difficulties with that. And as long as the character doesn't have the Str growth of a Heron, he'll be able to kill characters quickly enough in any case with good accuracy and reaching the third tier. I mainly play in hard, never had any kind of difficulties with either of these things.

Yeah, let's go and ignore the fact that her speed capo SUCKS for someone with "the speed of a Swordmaster" (FFS, she only has 22 speed cap in second tier, which ain't doubling jack aside from tigers that maul her in return, or the unpromoted rabble in 3-12).

Edited April 23, 2015 by Levant Caprice

[Chiki]

Meg is really good. Her stats don't matter at all when she can shove with her high weight and use Wind Edge to make subhumans in 3-6 transform back to their human form.

[Baldrick]

Kirara, it's OK. You don't need to pretend you play hard mode. Nobody will think any less of you if you play easy mode. But when you try to use your easy mode experience to argue about hard, you make mistaken assumptions and look foolish.

[sthbdis]

Meg wishes she had been born attractive so she could be a peggie. Unfortunately she has to hide behind armor and therefore sucks. Which is unfortunate because I really like using tanks in general, and Gatrie in theory could be good, but Marshals are just not worth it in this game. Due to their poor caps and poor mobility mostly. So it's ok to like Meg and use her every time if that's your preference. Go for it. Have fun. I will still use Gatrie on most of my playthroughs. But I won't argue that he's AWESOME either.

[Radiant head]

Gatrie rules with Celerity and the 3-3 Crown. Now I won't argue he's getting those resources over other characters, but in theory it's possible to make Gatrie an 8 move juggernaut who roflstomps the GM chapters single handedly.

[dondon151]

Meg is really good. Her stats don't matter at all when she can shove with her high weight and use Wind Edge to make subhumans in 3-6 transform back to their human form.

i know that you're being facetious, but meg is a poor shover because shove is based on the shover's con, not wt.

[Shinlucifeh]

Meg is awesome compared to...who? Fiona? Yeah that would be right.

The rest of DB...just no

Is an usable personal chalenge? yeah

A crap unit that turns awesome is Astrid thought, real monster if you level her with Bxp till 15 and then just let her do her thing

[RedScizor]

I accidentally missed her my first time because I was dumb. So that's a thing.