Fire Emblem Cipher - Rules and Q&A

[Ayra]

So I was playing around a bit and came up with a few questions. Hopefully someone here can answer them

1. Can you promote / level up a tapped unit? If so, does it remain tapped?

2. If I have 4 bond cards and have already deployed 4 cost worth of units, can I flip the 'used' bonds for effects?

3. For cards like Tiki, who are non-promotable, can I still 'level-up' by placing a higher cost Tiki on a lower cost one (forgoing the promotion draw bonus)?

4. Can Elice's Aum Staff target a character that cannot otherwise be on the battlefield? For example, if I have a Marth on the battlefield, can I use Aum Staff to get another one?

Answers would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Realised after re-reading the rules that situation 1 cant happen because deployment is before action phase.

As far as I know:

1) As you mentionned, the "deploy" phase is before the main phase.

2) Pretty sure those are entirely different costs, so yes you could.

3) You can.

4) Never seen this mentioned anywhere, but I'm pretty sure you can't. It revives people, not duplicate them.

demonspartanx20: You can go up as many "steps" as you want at once, as long as you have the bonds in play to do so.

[Nitro]

So I finished unboxing 4 boxes just now, a few things I can confirm with reasonable assumption:

As mentioned earlier in this topic, each booster box contains exactly 12 Rares ® and 4 Super Rares (SR)

Among these 16 cards, you are guaranteed that exactly 1 of these cards will be a + card. This means that on average your odds are to pull an SR+ card in one of every 4 booster boxes or 1:64 booster packs. It's probably worth a mention that since the odds seem to be fixed per booster box, you could theoretically have + card hunters who stumble upon the + card early in their pack openings for a box, then sell off the rest of the unopened single booster packs...probably worth considering if you are out on the auctions buying up loose single booster packs!

+ cards come in two varieties: gold font, and gold font with a signature. there are both rare and super rare + types of both varieties.

If anyone cares to know the + cards of my haul:

Robin (F) R+ (gold font and signed)

Lon'qu R+ (gold font)

Catria R+ (gold font)

Marth SR+ (!!) (gold font and signed)

good luck card hunters.

I'm somewhat confused, are you saying that every card that has the potential to be a + card has two different varieties of it? For example, your Robin that has both the gold font and is signed, would've it been possible for you to get a version of it that only has the gold font without the signature? In that case you would have to collect 3 versions of the same card which I don't really feel like doing. Maybe I'm just tired and didn't get what you wrote. :7

Thanks for the info by the way, my 4 boxes should be here sometime next week.

EDIT: And since I'm on it, what's the rate for holos?

Edited July 1, 2015 by Nitro

[DifferentFight]

I'm somewhat confused, are you saying that every card that has the potential to be a + card has two different varieties of it? For example, your Robin that has both the gold font and is signed, would've it been possible for you to get a version of it that only has the gold font without the signature? In that case you would have to collect 3 versions of the same card which I don't really feel like doing. Maybe I'm just tired and didn't get what you wrote. :7

Thanks for the info by the way, my 4 boxes should be here sometime next week.

EDIT: And since I'm on it, what's the rate for holos?

Some cards are signed, some aren't. Those that aren't, their + versions just have the cool golden barrier. The signed ones don't have a + version without the sign.

As for holos; every R is foil, but box rates are 12 R, 4 SR and 1 R+/SR+.

[FutureKnightX]

So I was playing around a bit and came up with a few questions. Hopefully someone here can answer them

1. Can you promote / level up a tapped unit? If so, does it remain tapped?

2. If I have 4 bond cards and have already deployed 4 cost worth of units, can I flip the 'used' bonds for effects?

3. For cards like Tiki, who are non-promotable, can I still 'level-up' by placing a higher cost Tiki on a lower cost one (forgoing the promotion draw bonus)?

4. Can Elice's Aum Staff target a character that cannot otherwise be on the battlefield? For example, if I have a Marth on the battlefield, can I use Aum Staff to get another one?

Answers would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Realised after re-reading the rules that situation 1 cant happen because deployment is before action phase.

http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Comprehensive_Rules_of_FE_Cipher

Does that not cover it all? Or is it basic misunderstanding? The reason I'm asking is because I am always looking for ways that page can be improved.

[Colino]

I'm somewhat confused, are you saying that every card that has the potential to be a + card has two different varieties of it? For example, your Robin that has both the gold font and is signed, would've it been possible for you to get a version of it that only has the gold font without the signature? In that case you would have to collect 3 versions of the same card which I don't really feel like doing. Maybe I'm just tired and didn't get what you wrote. :7

Thanks for the info by the way, my 4 boxes should be here sometime next week.

EDIT: And since I'm on it, what's the rate for holos?

There is a full set-list of all cards you can find in booster packs here: http://fecipher.jp/cards/BT0001.html

This lists all available + cards as well. There aren't any "non holo" versions of holo cards. Everything R and above is holo in some way.

The rarity rate for a booster box has been posted before in this thread.

[donmk]

http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Comprehensive_Rules_of_FE_Cipher

Does that not cover it all? Or is it basic misunderstanding? The reason I'm asking is because I am always looking for ways that page can be improved.

I re-read that page, and here's what I found

1. Covered by phase order

2. There is indeed a note in the action phase covering this. Either I missed it the first time or I read an older version of the page

3. Again, there is a note there which I missed on my first read through for whatever reason

4. My confusion here was with the rule. The page states that you cannot deploy a unit if you already have a unit of the same name. My question (in essence) was whether Elice's skill counted as a deployment (since it doesn't happen during deployment phase). And if the rule is actually that you cannot control two units with the same name. Otherwise, if Elice's skill is not a deployment, and the rule is against deploying units of the same name, there is theoretically nothing to prevent her from bringing back a same-named unit.

What might be the real issue is the Elice card translation on the wiki. The translation says to place the revived character on the battlefield (not strictly a deployment), but the japanese uses 出撃, which I think is the word for deployment. If so, then there would be no issue, and since the revival counts as a deployment, it would mean that it would trigger skills that happen on deployments (such as TD 4/3 Marth's moving skill)

Thanks

Edited July 2, 2015 by donmk

[FutureKnightX]

I re-read that page, and here's what I found

1. Covered by phase order

2. There is indeed a note in the action phase covering this. Either I missed it the first time or I read an older version of the page

3. Again, there is a note there which I missed on my first read through for whatever reason

4. My confusion here was with the rule. The page states that you cannot deploy a unit if you already have a unit of the same name. My question (in essence) was whether Elice's skill counted as a deployment (since it doesn't happen during deployment phase). And if the rule is actually that you cannot control two units with the same name. Otherwise, if Elice's skill is not a deployment, and the rule is against deploying units of the same name, there is theoretically nothing to prevent her from bringing back a same-named unit.

What might be the real issue is the Elice card translation on the wiki. The translation says to place the revived character on the battlefield (not strictly a deployment), but the japanese uses 出撃, which I think is the word for deployment. If so, then there would be no issue, and since the revival counts as a deployment, it would mean that it would trigger skills that happen on deployments (such as TD 4/3 Marth's moving skill)

Thanks

Actually, after I made that comment, I went back and added a few notes for clarification. I mean, I felt it was already covered, but you can never be too careful (and it isn't like crap like this never happened to me lol). Though, yeah, the turn order was totally covered before lol. Anyways, the rule is "you cannot control more than one unit of the same character at at time, except by effects (thanks Anna)" and Elice's effect should be a deployment (same with Palla, Catria, and Est), but you do have a point when they don't say that. I also haven't heard many rulings when it comes to effects like that (like "do color restrictions still apply to units deploy by effects like that?").

[donmk]

Actually, after I made that comment, I went back and added a few notes for clarification. I mean, I felt it was already covered, but you can never be too careful (and it isn't like crap like this never happened to me lol). Though, yeah, the turn order was totally covered before lol. Anyways, the rule is "you cannot control more than one unit of the same character at at time, except by effects (thanks Anna)" and Elice's effect should be a deployment (same with Palla, Catria, and Est), but you do have a point when they don't say that. I also haven't heard many rulings when it comes to effects like that (like "do color restrictions still apply to units deploy by effects like that?").

Honestly, they probably were covered implicitly, but I'm the kind of guy who loves theory crafting these possibilities. The first point actually came about because I was talking to a friend and he raised it. I played a lot of WS and there's quite a few cards there that prevent opponents characters untapping at the start of the opponents next turn. As far as I know there are no such cards in FE0. Yet.

The question about colour restrictions on effect summons is interesting. My guess would be that since they don't use up the bonds, you could theoretically do the deployment with no face up bonds. This would imply that colour is irrelevant.

[Nanaka]

Honestly, they probably were covered implicitly, but I'm the kind of guy who loves theory crafting these possibilities. The first point actually came about because I was talking to a friend and he raised it. I played a lot of WS and there's quite a few cards there that prevent opponents characters untapping at the start of the opponents next turn. As far as I know there are no such cards in FE0. Yet.

The question about colour restrictions on effect summons is interesting. My guess would be that since they don't use up the bonds, you could theoretically do the deployment with no face up bonds. This would imply that colour is irrelevant.

Elice's effect does state that it's a deployment. Therefore the rules about 'no two of the same character' and 'face up bond card of the respective colour' should apply.

[FutureKnightX]

Elice's effect does state that it's a deployment. Therefore the rules about 'no two of the same character' and 'face up bond card of the respective colour' should apply.

I would imagine the first does indeed apply, but does the latter? I mean, in WS (which has a similar color rule), effect calls are unaffected by the rule, so I feel that it isn't a given. Has IS said anything about it, specifically? If they haven't, then I feel an email would be in order then.

Either way, whatever the rule is, I will be sure to add it. And for that matter, what about the unlikely situation where a player has no cards in their deck AND retreat area? Does the player lose then?

[audiotronica]

I would imagine the first does indeed apply, but does the latter? I mean, in WS (which has a similar color rule), effect calls are unaffected by the rule, so I feel that it isn't a given. Has IS said anything about it, specifically? If they haven't, then I feel an email would be in order then.

Either way, whatever the rule is, I will be sure to add it. And for that matter, what about the unlikely situation where a player has no cards in their deck AND retreat area? Does the player lose then?

For Elise, you should be able to use her affect without having any colored face up bonds out. I think the "no same name character" rule is applicable to the entire game, but the necessity for a same colored bond is just a rule for the deployment phase. Although the terminology is the same, I think the point of the effect (and many others) is to be able to do something ordinarily forbidden by the rules.

There's nothing on the FAQ about what happens if you have 0 cards in your retreat and deck. It would mean you would need to have at least 45 cards (no orbs) in bonds/deployed. It wouldn't happen unless your opponent was trying to help you do it by never attacking. I think IS just hasn't anticipated this situation ever happening for people who are playing the game regularly.

I will send an e-mail to IS about these questions. They are very prompt with responses.

[FutureKnightX]

For Elise, you should be able to use her affect without having any colored face up bonds out. I think the "no same name character" rule is applicable to the entire game, but the necessity for a same colored bond is just a rule for the deployment phase. Although the terminology is the same, I think the point of the effect (and many others) is to be able to do something ordinarily forbidden by the rules.

There's nothing on the FAQ about what happens if you have 0 cards in your retreat and deck. It would mean you would need to have at least 45 cards (no orbs) in bonds/deployed. It wouldn't happen unless your opponent was trying to help you do it by never attacking. I think IS just hasn't anticipated this situation ever happening for people who are playing the game regularly.

I will send an e-mail to IS about these questions. They are very prompt with responses.

Thank you! Please do that. Side note: it is now official. Every series 1 card (including starter deck and promos) is on the wiki, translations and everything! I finished it off myself! All that is really left is alternate artwork and + cards, which we need to figure out how we want to input them in. We also need to clean up the pages. This includes:

*templates instead of raw data on all the pages (some have the template, some do not, basically)

*same terms used for every page (some pages use different terms for the same thing)

*every category a card is supposed to belong to is on the page (some pages are missing categories)

*cards that are also in the starter deck need to reflect as much on the page (some cards also come in the starter deck, in addition to them being in the booster set and the card entries do not say that)

I will also post this on the topic about updating the wiki. I just don't wanna be the only one doing this... q.q

[eclipse]

You'll have to wait until the Fates boards calm down. . .whenever that is.

Did you want a list of all the places a card can come from (a la Vanguard wiki)?

[FutureKnightX]

You'll have to wait until the Fates boards calm down. . .whenever that is.Did you want a list of all the places a card can come from (a la Vanguard wiki)?

It would go under "set number", naturally, but yeah, that is the idea. And I have zero clue what cards are also in the starter decks, so that info would be nice, too.

[Coopa]

By any chance, was there a skype group for FE: Cipher? I wanted to join it if possible and play. I'm FKOCoopa on skype in case anyone wanted to play.

[demonspartanx20]

We were talking about making one not too long ago on here,I'll create a group on Skype over the weekend and add ppl along with a thread on the forum.

[Touya]

An interesting ruling that's come up: https://twitter.com/kito_part2/status/616530463776116736

It's perfectly valid to have your main character card in a different sleeve from the rest of your deck, or even a top loader. This means that only 49 cards out of your deck need to be in identical sleeves. Presumably this is because your main character never actually leaves the field, unlike in Vanguard and other games with a main character-like mechanic.

[Nanaka]

Wellspring of Youth, Nowi – Rarity: Rare / Series 1 Booster Card #078

Cost: 3

Insignia: Awakening

Affinities: Female / Stone / Dragon

Quote: “I trust everyone to do their jobs, and me? I do my best in battle!”

Skill 1: “Young Manakete” / & / At the end of your turn you may add one card from your bond area to your hand.

Skill 2: “Ancient Dragon Tribe” / ∞ / When there are 6 or more cards in your bond area, this unit’s attack increases by 30.

Support Skill: N/A

Attack Power: 50

Support Attack Power: 20

Range: 1-2

Rank: Non-promotable

Class: Manakete

Title: Wellspring of Youth

Card ID: B01-078R

Illustrator: Pisuke

The first effect of this card should be mandatory instead of choice.

[Coopa]

Wellspring of Youth, Nowi – Rarity: Rare / Series 1 Booster Card #078

Cost: 3

Insignia: Awakening

Affinities: Female / Stone / Dragon

Quote: “I trust everyone to do their jobs, and me? I do my best in battle!”

Skill 1: “Young Manakete” / & / At the end of your turn you may add one card from your bond area to your hand.

Skill 2: “Ancient Dragon Tribe” / ∞ / When there are 6 or more cards in your bond area, this unit’s attack increases by 30.

Support Skill: N/A

Attack Power: 50

Support Attack Power: 20

Range: 1-2

Rank: Non-promotable

Class: Manakete

Title: Wellspring of Youth

Card ID: B01-078R

Illustrator: Pisuke

The first effect of this card should be mandatory instead of choice.

Are you 100% sure? Because that changes her value. you'd need 7 bonds out to keep her stable instead of just 6.

[aubergine]

Are you 100% sure? Because that changes her value. you'd need 7 bonds out to keep her stable instead of just 6.

Yes, Nanaka is 100% correct. This was a mistake on my part, and I think Nanaka helped me realize that a few pages back, I apparently forgot to update it in the final Cipher translation compendium. The skill's description makes clear in Japanese that it is not a choice.

Thanks again Nanaka, I've gone in and fixed it on the translation documents.

[Ayra]

I got the chance to play with just the two starter decks. Things went about as expected, but I found some kind of solution at least. Keep in mind that this is with players used to Magic the Gathering mainly and never played Vanguard or other similar games.

No matter who played which deck, :

- If Chrom's deck went first, the game generally went pretty long and it was a coin flip which deck won.

- If Marth's deck went first, it wins the game extremely easily and it's basically a stomp.

Even with the double penality (being unable to attack and no card draw), going first is definitively an advantage.

Marth's deck is pretty solid. It's very offense oriented (many, many cards have bonuses on the attack phase), many cards have very easy to accomplish triggers that works by simply playing cost 1 or 2 units. Most of your units have promotion options too.

On the other hand Chrom's deck has major issues. Chrom's ability is based on promoting your units, but very few of your units can actually promote, fewer than Marth's deck (why???). Plus, the earliest you can start benefiting from Chrom's ability is on the 4th turn; if you go second, you'll be dead before then.

So then I had an idea. I decided to pick Sully as main lord instead. And surprise! The deck started winning more often, even when going second.

There's a few reasons that this works:

1) Sully can be promoted on turn 2, unlike Chrom who needs to be promoted on turn three. This makes you far more resilient to the devastating attack on turn #3, so you can actually live longer.

2) Sully has a very useful CCS ability. By being your lord, you ensure that she's always going to be on the table and the effect will keep applying. Chrom does not have a CCS ability, so him getting promoted is less relevant.

3) Sully has a +30 bonus whenever she's supported by Stahl, and there's 5 of those in the deck (For a total of +40), which works both on offense and defense. This helps mitigate quite well the fact that she has 10 less raw attack power than Chrom and Marth.

I mean, it's not perfect by any means and Chrom's ability is mostly wasted (He's basically used for an overpriced 70 damage attack), Lucina's ability is usually irrelevant and so on, but I found that the deck performance was about equal with Sully or Chrom as leader when starting first, and much more effective when going second.

tl;dr: Use Sully (or Stalh) as your main character in the Chrom starter deck instead of Chrom. Sounds stupid but it actually works.

[Tuvillo]

I want in on this. Got my starter decks today, booster boxes should be here as soon as my friends get back from Tokyo.

The Lord-choice seems like a really good game dynamic.

[DifferentFight]

Somewhat related; I got all my boxes etc today and got good pulls (will post videos next week), and managed to pretty much finish up the Inigo harem deck (just missing a couple of rares that aren't worth much).

And let me tell you something.

That deck is a beast.

Not only will pretty much every support check have 30 support power, CCS Inigo paired with CCS Sumia basically means that every +30 support will be adding +50 instead.

Then you have Minerva to top it off, where she just become a huge powerhouse lategame.

Also SR Cordelia is a thing I need 2x more of. She's super good, but the amount of times she ends up getting support checked is a bit annoying...

[Jagen]

Okay, I am really curious about something. Does anyone know why Wrys looks the way he does in his 2nd card? In his first card he looks like his usual peaceful self, while in his 2nd card he looks insane. Is it some sort of joke i'm not getting or what? With the red eyes and pale skin it almost looks like hes being controlled by the darksphere.

[Kirie]

Just thought I'd drop a line to let people know that the Official Cipher Guide is also now available for pre-order on AmiAmi. This might be easier for some people to order than working with amazon.co.jp, especially if they're ordering other products through them for combined shipping.