Fire Emblem Cipher - Rules and Q&A

[Foodies]

Playing anything that increases the number of cards in the stack by putting it on top is a level up. So yes, class changes are considered level ups too. If it increases the number of the cards in the stack by putting it on the bottom instead of the top it is called a growth instead of a level up. So class changing will trigger ST Elincia's effect but it will not trigger Bastion's effect since his specifically says growth instead of level up.

Answer to question: Yes. Class changed means a promoted card on top with a card underneath it essentially. Do note that if you growth a unit you won't get the class change bonus of drawing a card since that only happens when the promoted unit is played on top of an already existing card.

[s07195]

Can you use characters with only promoted forms as a Lord? Such as Flora?

[AstraLunaSol]

you can only use characters that have a 1 cost as a lord, since they are the first unit on the board

[Originalprof]

Hey, quick ruling question!

Looking at cards like B03-021SR Unrivaled Sword Hand, Mia and B03-032R Swift Lance of Liberation, Nephenee, and had a thought.

Their wording makes it seem like the level up effects are mandatory. Is this the case? If you kill something with Mia are you forced to grow her from waiting room, and if you don't have any available targets, are you forced to show your opponent your hand to verify that there aren't any?

[TheVinceKnight]

Hey, quick ruling question!

Looking at cards like B03-021SR Unrivaled Sword Hand, Mia and B03-032R Swift Lance of Liberation, Nephenee, and had a thought.

Their wording makes it seem like the level up effects are mandatory. Is this the case? If you kill something with Mia are you forced to grow her from waiting room, and if you don't have any available targets, are you forced to show your opponent your hand to verify that there aren't any?

It's not mandatory, you can choose to do it or not.

I've fixed the cards themselves on the Wiki to represent it.

[SalShich10N]

A question. With effects like Gaius BT01-074N, B01-073SR, Volke, or anyone with "Locktouch" that let you check the top card of the deck for an effect. After you see the card, do you return it as normal or does the opponent shuffle the deck afterwards? If he doesn't that sounds like a very effective way to check for the enemy's Support when attacking, specially when first only cost is tapping.

[TheVinceKnight]

A question. With effects like Gaius BT01-074N, B01-073SR, Volke, or anyone with "Locktouch" that let you check the top card of the deck for an effect. After you see the card, do you return it as normal or does the opponent shuffle the deck afterwards? If he doesn't that sounds like a very effective way to check for the enemy's Support when attacking, specially when first only cost is tapping.

You return it as normal after revealing it, yes.

Your opponent doesn't shuffle the deck afterwards.

In a gameplay point of view however, it isn't as strong as you would normally think.

1) Thieves only have 10 Support, this is huge especially when you miss / get defeated as a result of being supported by one.

2) Checking the opponent's top deck isn't as worthy as you may think unless your opponent is playing 10 Supports, and you can manipulate that information by attacking with a weaker unit to score a hit. But because the norm is no one runs 10 Support, or only the copies of their Lord with 10 support, your more likely going to hit them anyway if you run a consistent amount of decent supports (archers and fliers).

3) There's also better options when it comes to playable cards majority of the time, so thieves usually have the short end of the stick and never get played because their effects aren't optimal enough to outweigh the fact that they have only 10 Support.

Thing is, Thieves can be good with better decent effects and more attack (they really should have as much attack as a Myrmidon or Mercenary). It's unfortunate, but I guess that's how it is.

[SalShich10N]

You return it as normal after revealing it, yes.

Your opponent doesn't shuffle the deck afterwards.

In a gameplay point of view however, it isn't as strong as you would normally think.

1) Thieves only have 10 Support, this is huge especially when you miss / get defeated as a result of being supported by one.

2) Checking the opponent's top deck isn't as worthy as you may think unless your opponent is playing 10 Supports, and you can manipulate that information by attacking with a weaker unit to score a hit. But because the norm is no one runs 10 Support, or only the copies of their Lord with 10 support, your more likely going to hit them anyway if you run a consistent amount of decent supports (archers and fliers).

3) There's also better options when it comes to playable cards majority of the time, so thieves usually have the short end of the stick and never get played because their effects aren't optimal enough to outweigh the fact that they have only 10 Support.

Thing is, Thieves can be good with better decent effects and more attack (they really should have as much attack as a Myrmidon or Mercenary). It's unfortunate, but I guess that's how it is.

Thing is that the way I play with my friends who also have cards is that we just bought a couple booster boxes of the games we played and split the packs. We then make decks only using the cards we have.

Have you ever played this game, or any card game for that matter, with just stuff you pulled out of booster boxes? My best Lord card is Nephenee which I had the fortune to pull the 70 attack rare one twice (one was R+ and she's mai waifu too, I swear my luck with pulls is amazing). It matters a lot when the opponent's deck is an unpredictable potpourri of cards anywhere between 10 to 30 at a more or less equal range and to check who or how should you begin your offense.

[TheVinceKnight]

Thing is that the way I play with my friends who also have cards is that we just bought a couple booster boxes of the games we played and split the packs. We then make decks only using the cards we have.

Have you ever played this game, or any card game for that matter, with just stuff you pulled out of booster boxes? My best Lord card is Nephenee which I had the fortune to pull the 70 attack rare one twice (one was R+ and she's mai waifu too, I swear my luck with pulls is amazing). It matters a lot when the opponent's deck is an unpredictable potpourri of cards anywhere between 10 to 30 at a more or less equal range and to check who or how should you begin your offense.

Sealed pack play? Well I guess if you put it like that, then anything is nearly doable.

Play the way you wanna play though. They're your cards. Just have fun :p

[SalShich10N]

Sealed pack play? Well I guess if you put it like that, then anything is nearly doable.

Play the way you wanna play though. They're your cards. Just have fun :p

I'd say more play the way you CAN play, in this case. You should try it sometime when a new set comes out, it can get pretty bonkers.

Still you make me wonder, what about those 10 support cards with Fighter's Emblem or Defender's Emblem. And now I can see why Red/Blue flyers are kinda expensive on the secondhand market, since a deck where almost everything, if not everything else is 30 support power is pretty damn good. Also how often do failed supports occur during a normal high-level match? I can guess pretty high if you're only running like 10-15 different characters at 3-4 copies of each card.

[Kirie]

Have you ever played this game, or any card game for that matter, with just stuff you pulled out of booster boxes?

Semi-off-topic, but this is actually my preferred way to play among all of the TCGs I've played. :P Though I've never actually played Cipher before (I'm a collector first and foremost), so that's basically just MtG and Pokémon. I can imagine it would indeed be pretty random for Cipher, though.

[TheVinceKnight]

I'd say more play the way you CAN play, in this case. You should try it sometime when a new set comes out, it can get pretty bonkers.

I actually did think about it, but using an Structure Deck would be more fun in my opinion. Just like having pre-built things and not having to rely on luck in sealed pack play. Been to too many Yu-Gi-Oh sneak peeks to know about bad luck.

Still you make me wonder, what about those 10 support cards with Fighter's Emblem or Defender's Emblem.

10 Support cards with Fighter's Emblem tend to go very well when building a deck that goes full-on aggression. Especially with cards like Ogma and the fighters that gain attack during your turn, they actually do something when played out on field, which is great.

As for Defender's Emblem, not so much -> It's good to have the Defence when your being attacked and get it, but the value you get from it is just like being supported by a flier (30 support), which is much better than having only 10 support from Knights while attacking.

The majority of fliers being played have more useful effects than Knights, who just gain power when being attacked by a non-tome attack.

So, in fact, similar to thieves, unless Knights get more useful effects any time soon, they won't be seeing as much play in the current meta game (Intelligent Systems why you hating on Knights and Thieves?).

And now I can see why Red/Blue flyers are kinda expensive on the secondhand market, since a deck where almost everything, if not everything else is 30 support power is pretty damn good.

Yeah, cards like Shiida4 and Narcian4 tend to have a pricey tag not only because are they Super Rare, they have 30 Support, and they have useful effects while out on the field. In Shiida4s case especially, since Series 1 is older (older cards tend to get more expensive in a Card Game, especially if they're good). 30 Support will always be valued when your opponent fails to defeat you by 10 attack, which is a big difference.

Also how often do failed supports occur during a normal high-level match? I can guess pretty high if you're only running like 10-15 different characters at 3-4 copies of each card.

In a game, I would say at least 3-4 times you would fail a support. Could be higher or lower, depending on luck (it is a luck based thing).

If you didn't fail a single support in a game, I would say you're blessed by a god or something.

But when failing supports matter the most is when you fail and get hit because of it, especially when you get hit by a 40 power unit who gets supported by a Flier, and you fail your support (assuming your Lord is 70).

[SalShich10N]

Ahh yes, one more question. With both versions of Sophie: B03-098N and B03-097HN, does she need to move in order to gain the extra 10 attack or does she always have the extra 10 attack during your turn?

[TheVinceKnight]

Ahh yes, one more question. With both versions of Sophie: B03-098N and B03-097HN, does she need to move in order to gain the extra 10 attack or does she always have the extra 10 attack during your turn?

You have to move Sophie to gain the 10 attack during your turn. On both versions of the card.

You can move Sophie back after attacking if your Sophie3 (B03-097HN).

[SalShich10N]

You have to move Sophie to gain the 10 attack during your turn. On both versions of the card.

You can move Sophie back after attacking if your Sophie3 (B03-097HN).

Yeah, I noticed that on Sophie3 the idea was to hit, hide on the rear and repeat. The wording is a little unclear, is it like that in japanese too? It'd be more clear if it said "If you do, this unit gains 10 attack" rather than "and after you do, this unit gains 10 attack." or "Also, until the end of this turn, this unit gains 10 attack"

Does the wording of a card's effect also indicate timing like in Yugioh, or is it more lenient?

[TheVinceKnight]

Yeah, I noticed that on Sophie3 the idea was to hit, hide on the rear and repeat. The wording is a little unclear, is it like that in japanese too? It'd be more clear if it said "If you do, this unit gains 10 attack" rather than "and after you do, this unit gains 10 attack." or "Also, until the end of this turn, this unit gains 10 attack"

Does the wording of a card's effect also indicate timing like in Yugioh, or is it more lenient?

It's just worded in a way that makes it easier to understand, there isn't really any rulings when it comes to timing.

Most of the skills worded in Japanese list a cost and then if you do - X happens.

'you may do this, and if you do: this happens'

Edited August 15, 2016 by TheVinceKnight

[TheVinceKnight]

There's a more recent version of the Rules on the Wiki now, which are right here.

It's also now updated on the first post (thanks Kirie).

Up to date since Series 5. If there's anything that's wrong with the rules (because I may have made a mistake), message me here or on the Serenes Cipher Discord.

[Originalprof]

Quick ruling question about rally effects such as B04-051SR The Right Stuff, Itsuki. Do they only affect cards that are on the field when he uses his effect, or will it affect any cards that are deployed/class changed through other card effects later during the turn?

[TheVinceKnight]

Quick ruling question about rally effects such as B04-051SR The Right Stuff, Itsuki. Do they only affect cards that are on the field when he uses his effect, or will it affect any cards that are deployed/class changed through other card effects later during the turn?

Only units currently on the field when the Skill is activated. It's usually unlikely any units will get deployed anyway, but Rally skills would be a little better I suppose, but not by that much of a margin.

[jaredneumann]

Does anyone know if when you defeat an enemy unit with Kurthnaga and Level Up a White/Black fang unit such as Selkie or Velouria using his "Successor to the Dragon King" ability if it would be considered a Class Change as they have a promotion cost? The description for Kurthnaga says its considered a level up, but the 5(4) Elincia's "Queen's Encouragement" also says "level up a unit" but in its footnote it states that if you level up using a card with a promotion cost then you can draw a card as if it were class changed. Thanks for any information you guys have!

[TheVinceKnight]

If you level up a Fang unit and that card has a promotion cost, you can draw a card (in this case, only Black / White Fang units have the promo cost).

That is correct.

[Forthenguyen89]

Hello! I was wondering if anyone could clarify if characters with multiple LvS Skills on their card stack abilities or not (i.e. Will a character with a stack of 4 trigger his Lv3 and Lv4 abilities or just his Lv4)?

I ask because the rules section and certain card descriptions state that only the Skill for that exact stack count trigger, but card descriptions like Edward's state he can hit Attack Power 80 if his stack is 4.

Early thanks for any help!

Edited September 6, 2016 by Forthenguyen89

[Foodies]

The abilities stack, so yes a stack of 4 allows Lv3 and Lv4 abilities to be used.

[Forthenguyen89]

Sorry if this has been asked before but does growing a unit activate skills that trigger when a unit levels up (i.e Ike4's Liberation Sortie)? The Rules page says grown units count as leveled up but skills like Elincia5's separates them as "levels up OR grows" so I was confused. Early thanks for any help!

[TheVinceKnight]

Sorry if this has been asked before but does growing a unit activate skills that trigger when a unit levels up (i.e Ike4's Liberation Sortie)? The Rules page says grown units count as leveled up but skills like Elincia5's separates them as "levels up OR grows" so I was confused. Early thanks for any help!

The unit being counted as leveled up (through growth) didn't actually level up, so Ike's skill does not come into play. Elincia5 actually states growth as part of her effect to untap her.

In short, counted as if it was levelled up is not leveling up.

Edited September 11, 2016 by TheVinceKnight