Ragefest IV: Trolls & Tribulations

[Alusq]

Maybe Marc should just have a contest to make a good chapter instead of Ragefest in the future?

No, seriously. I haven't seen the second video, but it sounds like he's frustrated. Why not encourage people to make fun things instead of things that are designed to make you angry? I designed something to make him angry because that's what the contest is about and now it faces disqualification because it's... cryptic. Of all the things, it's cryptic. Oh no whatever shall I do?

With Alusq's submission, I spent about ten hours playing and recording the submission, and then for the next five days, I spent editing the footage, having absolutely zero fun doing it, and no doubt getting little cash for the work I put in.

This time-is-money approach pisses me off with people who play video games on the internet as much as it pisses me off with my family members. Look, buddy: I had no idea that I was wasting your money by making a game for you to play on the internet, but I spent consecutive sleepless nights on it. That doesn't sound like a big deal in comparison to working on it for a year like Pwnage did on hers, but it put me in an "out-of-it" mood that I am still recovering from and everyone in real life can tell. Good to know that the only thing I ended up wasting my time on was somehow wasting your fucking money. What a load of horseshit.

I have no idea on earth how my submission could be considered more "cryptic" than that part in Marc's Special Day where you literally had an ENTIRE MAP full of chests to open, chest after chest, in an attempt to find which one would let you proceed to the next part of the chapter.

I was happy to give you views having a game to play/for your viewers to watch, but in the future I don't want anything of my make shown on your channel again if you're going to complain that I'm not making money for you with my fake Fire Emblem game.

Also, protip: if something is bad, say that it is bad. Don't sugarcoat the pile of shit and then make a 180° the next day. If you just didn't say the right thing beforehand, then maybe find the correct words to say before you pass judgment on something. Turns out that Аlusq made something and there's a part of it turns it into an irredeemable pile of shit, yay! That's actually par for the course.

You want something that's actually cryptic to play, as a frame of reference for why I think this is a tiny bit ridiculous? I was going to include it in this post, but people are nagging me to get going to yet another real-life place that I don't want to go to, so stay tuned. I need to post now or else I'm never going to say this.

(post didn't go through the first time, so sorry if it ends up a double post. I'll almost certainly have to be disciplined anyway, so)

[ghast]

Sqawl you should really watch the video, or at least the last 2ish minutes.

Edit- I'll be dishing out warns if profanities, personal shots or any upbringing of the past discussion comes up again.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Ghatsu!

[Klokinator]

Edit- I'll be dishing out warns if profanities, personal shots or any upbringing of the past discussion comes up again.

[MrNight48]

Sqawl you should really watch the video, or at least the last 2ish minutes.

Edit- I'll be dishing out warns if profanities, personal shots or any upbringing of the past discussion comes up again.

ghast you are being incredibly biased about this, I think eclipse should moderate this

[SilverHairedFreak25]

So, what are you gonna do now? Take a break? Work on more FE3 videos? Or something ele entirely?

[MarkyJoe1990]

Right now. The plan is to just take some time to enjoy myself, and move on to the next submission when I think I'm ready. I might do more FE3 stuff for the time being, or something else, but we'll see how I'm feeling over time.

[Tryhard]

Sqawl you should really watch the video, or at least the last 2ish minutes.

Edit- I'll be dishing out warns if profanities, personal shots or any upbringing of the past discussion comes up again.

Gotta protect your friends. They are absolutely right, to be honest, and Marc was being selfish, but as long as he understands and moves on (and I would suggest apologising to Alusq) I couldn't care less.

[SilverHairedFreak25]

Gotta protect your friends. They are absolutely right, to be honest, and Marc was being selfish, but as long as he understands and moves on (and I would suggest apologising to Alusq) I couldn't care less.

FOR F***'S SAKE, GHAST JUST TOLD EVERYONE TO DROP IT! MULTIPLE TIMES! IT HAPPENED! IT'S OVER! BOTH SIDES NEED TO STOP MAKING ALUSQ LOOK LAZY AND MARC LOOK LIKE AN ASSHOLE! LET’S JUST GET HYPE FOR THE FUTURE SUBMISSIONS, AND ENJOY OURSELVES!

I don't care if I get a warning over this. People need to stop.

[Tryhard]

I don't care if I get a warning over this. People need to stop.

I also don't really care if I get warned for continuing the conversation. So there's that.

Sorry, sometimes I just need to speak when something bothers me, and I'm sorry if that permeates the bubble of what you want to hear.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Tryhard

[Augestein]

So what were the actual awards? I don't remember ever seeing those.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Augestein

[Klokinator]

So what were the actual awards? I don't remember ever seeing those.

This is what I came up with. Suggestions/feedback are always welcome.

-Ragefest award: Official winner of the contest. Combination of people's choice and judges choice. If those are in contention but a submission has received multiple awards and is viewer/judge choice, that one might be the winner. If neither applies, Marc chooses.

-Runner-up: Second place award. Similar criteria to above.

-Viewers choice: The one that the audience loved watching most. Maybe it was hilarious all the way through and thoroughly entertaining. Maybe marc's rage tickled our funny bone harder in a specific one. Either way, the people decide!

-Judge's choice, same as above, but determined by an odd-numbered set of judges, counting Marc.

-Character award: Best characters, most interesting characters, whatever. Firmly designed and interesting personalities to watch converse matter most here. Example - Matthew's Nightmare with all the cute, interesting characters.

-Jester award: The absolute funniest submission of them all. Whichever one has the viewers and/or Marc doubling over in laughter. Example: Marc's Special Day, tons of hilarious moments.

-Innovation award: Some people come up with amazingly creative entries, whether having seriously cool new mechanics, or whole new ways of playing the game. Let the viewers decide this one. Example, Emblem Warriors has a really innovative new system for capturing points.

-Sadist award: The submission that makes Marc cry/tear out his hair the most. Example: Ephraim's RF2 submission.

-Story award: If applicable, any entry with a well thought-out story is eligible here. This is a combination of points, where Marc and the viewers cast votes, and Marc's vote holds 30% weight here to the viewer's 70%. Example: Matthew's Nightmare.

-Strategist award: Whichever submission(s) had the best gameplay with the most careful, non-luck-based strategy, they are all eligible for this award. Marc and the Judges determine the winner here. Example - F.EXE's early and end points, though not so much the middle.

-Mapping award: Best map used in the contest, even if the gameplay was substandard. If the submission overall sucked, ineligible for this award. Example - Generic War (I'd pick someone else's but aside from Ash and Ciraxis's submission which people haven't seen yet, nothing leaps to mind)

-Animation/artwork award: If any badass new animations are included, Marc and the viewers/judges can vote to determine which hack wins this one. Some people clearly put a LOT of work into animations, so let's give them some serious credit here. Each animation is picked on a singular basis, but if multiple animations are included in a poll and are present in a single entry, their votes combine when voting is finished. Marc has the same voting weight here as the audience. Example: The Eliwood animation in Sqawl's entry, or the Marc animation from F.EXE.

-SHOCK award: Goes to entry that has the grotesque/hilarious visuals? Example - KAWAIIDESU from F.EXE/Generic War, Manphia, or the killer clown from Corruption of Roy.

-Sound design award: Some people put tons of work into their sound design. Let's give the best ones an award as well. Example: F.EXE's custom touhou music or something, idk music's not prevelant yet but it could be once FEXNA is released.

Total awards: 14

Any other suggestions?

[MarkyJoe1990]

The current awards are in the first post, but they are likely be changed soon. For the time being, Klok's post is more accurate.

[Augestein]

I see. How about the "Trapper Award?" Like the best person that got Marc in a "oh ****! I can't win this." This isn't to be confused with instant game overs or anything, but simply a point where the chapter has been played to an impossible to salvage state. Sort of how with Sqawl's, he got to a point where he was like "I can't win this." I believe this happened in Ephraim's submission awhile back as well.

[RandomSwordmaster]

I see. How about the "Trapper Award?" Like the best person that got Marc in a "oh ****! I can't win this." This isn't to be confused with instant game overs or anything, but simply a point where the chapter has been played to an impossible to salvage state. Sort of how with Sqawl's, he got to a point where he was like "I can't win this." I believe this happened in Ephraim's submission awhile back as well.

If that becomes a thing, then mine will probably win that...if marc screws up when playing my hack >:D Mess up once and....you might just find yourself trapped in a painful place :D

Edited August 6, 2015 by RandomSwordmaster

[Willie]

Maybe Marc should just have a contest to make a good chapter instead of Ragefest in the future?

No, seriously. I haven't seen the second video, but it sounds like he's frustrated. Why not encourage people to make fun things instead of things that are designed to make you angry?

I agree with this. I think I saw a MAFC (Make a fun chapter) contest on The Emblem Brigade a while ago, and it was cool to see. I think this would be a good idea, but maybe keep Ragefest also? If this is too much for MarkyJoe, than someone else could host it.

[ghast]

interestingly, Sqawl and I had a small discussion about bringing back MAFC a couple days ago

[RandomSwordmaster]

interestingly, Sqawl and I had a small discussion about bringing back MAFC a couple days ago

Well, gives me more incentive to make another hack. and of course, it will revolve around glitch abuse

Edited August 7, 2015 by RandomSwordmaster

[Klokinator]

I spoke with Trent two years ago after RF3 died about making a new contest, focusing entirely on making funny, interesting, creative maps, but without any extreme difficulty. Of course, people could still make hard hacks if they wanted, but the main goal was focusing on neat gimmicks, humor, things of that sort. I mainly didn't do it because Trent was going to university. Strongly debating bringing the idea back though.

I still have an old thing drafted up about it. Will look into it.

[Nanami Touko]

I spoke with Trent

hi i'm Trent if anyone doesn't know

Obviously we wouldn't want it to compete with Ragefest and would wait for 4 to be over before doing anything

But we've got Mageknight404 and probably Mangs on board with this as well

so it should be a thing in a few months.

[Klokinator]

Yeah, the other reason I never posted it was because RF1/2/3 had like... 7 or less submissions. I was thinking if we did bring it back, I'd wanna time it with the release of FEXNA, so we could encourage people to make some really creative things with the new engine. Might also help me get motivation to write another massive tutorial for it, etc. But since RF4 has 13~ submissions, it's clear the numbers of creative people out there are increasing, and I honestly can't blame Marc for being overwhelmed with all the work. It would be a lot of projects for just one person to handle. I doubt even I would be able to handle that many without cracking a little.

Luckily Trent managed FEE3 for two years, so I know he's got the will. I was thinking of making it a big event where every submission gets played by three people, maybe four if Mangs is on board, and we all release simultaneously. Could be neat because now the creator gets multiple points of view on their submission, and not just one. It also splits the burden, since if I don't like one submission or my commentary is lackluster, Trent could be better or Ray, and vice versa. It's basically a win-win either way.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Klokinator

[MarkyJoe1990]

I agree with this. I think I saw a MAFC (Make a fun chapter) contest on The Emblem Brigade a while ago, and it was cool to see. I think this would be a good idea, but maybe keep Ragefest also? If this is too much for MarkyJoe, than someone else could host it.

I'm undecided. I considered announcing Ragefest V sooner rather than later, but I think with how things are going at the moment, I'm gonna hold off on it, or maybe even choose not to do it at all. I do think I should try a new contest that focuses more on conventional design, but I dunno how interested people will be. Honestly, I think when Ragefest IV is done, I'll be happy with just going back to the way things were before.

... Alright, so, I know I'm walking on egg shells, but I want to address what happened earlier, and hopefully, people will understand and we can continue discussion without the high levels of salt.

Alright. *Sigh* Here goes.

First. Let's talk about what exactly I'm doing regarding the whole "cheating" thing. I have cheated in every Ragefest, whether it be save states, RNG rigging, or changing stats. However, I have always used these as last resorts, and I still intend to use it as such. When I play a submission and fail, I always want to believe that I'm missing something. The only exception to this rule is that sometimes I'll use save states so I don't have to redo an entire segment of a chapter. I don't think it's a good idea for me to avoid cheating if it means I end up with a bunch of unwatchable footage that's just gonna get edited out anyway. I'm not sure if y'all know, but when I've been at something for long enough, I stop raging and just get really quiet. I don't rage, I just resign myself to what the game expects of me and calmly work my way through the submission until we get to new content.

I think cheating so that I'm still mentally chipper enough to enjoy the submission and present it in a way that is favorable is beneficial to everyone. It saves me time, allows me to provide better commentary, and the video comes out quicker, with no quality loss.

The flaw in this is that maybe the tedium of replaying stuff will give us the rare case of CrazyJoe, but that's a strict maybe. Matthew's Nightmare got me in that state, and I still save scummed to high heaven on that one, so I believe that ultimately, this is a smart gamble.

Secondly, let's talk about the money thing... which is related to the previous subject I addressed. I think people took this a bit out of proportion. I'm not saying "I'm only in it for the money" or whatever. I just listed that as another reason why I don't think I should let myself handle tedium and monotony for extended periods of time. If I cared so much about the money, I wouldn't bother making youtube videos, since I don't make a lot. I make videos because I enjoy doing it. And cause I'm very lonely, and need comments to validate my worth as a human being. I think if money were taken out of the equation, I'd still make videos. I'd prolly be sad about it for a bit, since it's nice to have, but I like yapping my mouth off and looking at those delicious comments too much to stay away for long. I definitely think I shouldn't have mentioned money in the first place, but I also don't think making accusations based on a couple brashly placed words is beneficial to anyone.

Thirdly, let's talk about the comments I made about Alusq's submission... Most of my negativity was directed towards Part 2. I still stand by my stance that it is a good submission. It's unfortunate that Part 2 took such a toll on me that I ended up mentioning it a bunch of times here, but really, if a couple numbers were tweaked here and there, and perhaps a couple other issues were fixed, it'd be perfectly fine. Knowing that, I made an effort to present Part 2 in a way that acknowledges its flaws, but doesn't leave a hugely negative impression. If y'all had seen the live footage, I think the lasting impression would have been a lot worse, and I wanted to avoid that. I proposed modifying the rules for Ragefest because I think Alusq and others should get the recognition they deserve if they made a great effort, and not get their entire submission dismissed just because they breached one or two rules, which - might I add - was stated as "might" in the video, and not "definitely". Perhaps I made it sound like it was going to happen, but I'm not against changing my mind, and I'm still discussing it with people.

I understand that not a whole lot of people brought up these issues, but I think it's still important that they be addressed. I want people to enjoy the contest. Hopefully when I post this, we can all feel better about the situation. I'm sorry that I offended some of you.

Edited August 7, 2015 by MarkyJoe1990

[Klokinator]

The insulting part wasn't the money. It was the implication that, despite having a unique LPing niche, despite having a fanbase willing to make things just for you alone, and despite the fact that collectively people put months of time together to work on things for you, you're worried you won't make a couple bucks off it, or that your time is being 'wasted', or that it takes a few days/week to do each submission. I guarantee you it took even Sqawl more than a week to make his submission and plenty of sleepless nights too. Not to mention PwnageKirby has put like a year into hers, and I have no idea about the rest but at least a couple months for them. If you think it takes you long to LP something and edit it, think of how long it took to create that submission.

The money wasn't the big thing. It's a combination of everything else. I don't even hate you or anything, I just wish you'd stop crapping on your fanbase so damn often. Most people would kill for the kind of devoted caring fanbase you have, even if they have to put up with a sour grape here and there. Start realizing that when you ask other people for effort, you have obligations to accept their effort graciously, unless it's clearly had no thought put into it or something.

TL:DR, be more humble and appreciate what you've got. Many aren't this fortunate.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Klokky-Kuuuun!

[47948201]

lol idk why you keep bringing up the year put into my submission when 10 of those months were just "maybe doing a remix once every few weeks".

[Klokinator]

lol idk why you keep bringing up the year put into my submission when 10 of those months were just "maybe doing a remix once every few weeks".

All I know is I saw you posting about it every so often with new pictures and stuff/asking yeti for help. I don't know how 'busy' you were during the time, but it's still time spent working on it over many months so I count that.

[47948201]

It is a good point that I forgot to bring up with Marc over Skype though, that you mention there.

These games are made to be awful to play through once, but that's generally all Marc has to do, and he pretty much knows they're possible. We have to play them repeatedly, often with no clue if it'll even work, and that's not even counting text or assets. But Marc has made his own games, so I figure he should be fairly well aware of this.

I don't think I particularly have anything else to say that I haven't already said privately.