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What to do about ISIS


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. . .is giving weapons to the other Middle Eastern countries a good idea? We don't keep alliances forever. . .

In this world we probably will. The danger of giving weapons to countries in the Middle East has always been that they will fall into the hands of terrorists. Thus, we should not give them to Iraq and Syria, but Jordan and Iran, for example, are quite stable. I don't see any reason not to support them.

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Fine, then. Name one action Kim Jong Un has taken that proves that he is supplying ISIS. Go on, tell me. I'm interested to see what you can come up with.

I have never said that Un has been supplying ISIS. I only said there is a great chance that Un will support ISIS.

North Korea's link to Iran comes from the fact that both are protected by China and Russia. If it was found out that North Korea was supplying ISIS with weapons, that would piss Russia off, and Kim doesn't want that. I also like how you provide no reason whatsoever as to why ISIS has anything to gain by allying with North Korea. This line of argument, really, is incoherent.

Nah, Iran and ISIS both have same value in the eyes of Russia and China. If Un is found out that he was supplying ISIS, nothing would have happened. Russia and China nothing should ISIS replace Iran to be the thorn of the Us in middle east. Also, NK is a more valuable pet for both Russia and China.

ISIS has acted so far in a manner that has served to completely alienate any possible allies they might have. Their military success comes from the incompetence of their opponents, not from the competence of they themselves. There's your logical evidence.

Really? Tell me more about Boko Haram and many other small Sunny terrorist groups that got absorbed in ISIS. Also, you mentioned they dropped their possible allies, who are those possible allies?

For fucks sake. If ISIS has no real hope of destroying Iran, so all North Korea gains if they support ISIS is making their allies pissed at them. Also, why is America afraid to piss off Kim? He already seems angered at them. Also, at this point China doesn't really need North Korea. They have an economic co dependence with the US, so neither of them have anything to gain from war. Stop with conjecture, and provide proof for your claim, if you can manage that that is. I am getting really fed up with teaching you about geopolitical realities.

AND I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THEY CAN, thanks you. I have never said anything like that, but since you seem to lack ability to actually read and cant seem to remember things wrote in previous posts, I will say it again. I said that if ISIS was to be able to destroy Iran, NK may gains its support to ISIS and it's ISIS's best choice to accept it. And do you know why even China or Russia may support ISIS? Because if ISIS indeed manage to destroy Iran, it will get its hand on Iran's nuclear plants.

Also, America is afraid of NK. It's all about history, little boy. May be if you take your time to read newspaper or watch world events, you will know why. NK is like a beggar and US is a rich guy. NK has nothing to lose but US has a lot to lose. NK doesnt afraid to get dirt, Us gains nothing but dirty its hands by fighting NK. Not to mention, the beggar is protected by beggar alliance which is just waiting for Us to get dirt to stab it from behinds.

Both China and Russia have their borders next to NK. Should NK fall, they will be exposed to their strongest enemy, aka US. Putin went out of his way to keep Ukraine under his control even if it's torn in two, attacked Georgia in 2008 to protect Russia-friendly regime. In history, most large empires kept a barrier of small countries around them. These contries shall act as their last line against enemy. Wars happen all the times, and having war right on your soil is a bad things. Russia had lost many of its barrier countries since WWII and then Putin took the role and defend what left at all cost. China did go to war with US to keep some parts of Korea to themselves, only for the same reason. Btw, Russia did threat to use nuclear weapon should US push harder into the north part of Korea. They both took actions to protect their borders indirectly. Giving up NK is the last thing they do. China knows that, Russia knows that, US knows that and Un knows that too. What did you do in history class, boy?

If you take your time to look at the Europe map from 1950 up to now, you may see something if you are not blind. It's not even conspiracy theory. It's basic knowledge. But since you have not a single ideal about history, talking more will be useless. I laughed when I read about the part that "Un will not risk pissing of US". It's so funny that it hurts. But hey, it shows that US's brainwashing program actually works.

Thus, we should not give them to Iraq and Syria, but Jordan and Iran, for example, are quite stable. I don't see any reason not to support them.

There are obviously some old coots in the senate who are still against it. Obama doesnt have time to change much. Look at his recent actions to calm down Iran and how ugly the rest of the white house reacted to his actions. Should Hilary become the new president, she may be able to do something. Also, Syria used to be more stable than all of the other Muslim countries you mentioned. The reason why it looks so bad now is no doubt, thanks to....cough....US...cough....

Most Muslim allies of Us are Sunny, Iran itself is...There will be no doubt that Iran doesnt like that ideal and other US's muslim allies may feel uneasy too. If there are anything that can destroy the quote "In war, it's all about benefits", it's Sunni-Shia relationship. It defies logic.

Edited by Magical CC
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I have never said that Un has been supplying ISIS. I only said there is a great chance that Un will support ISIS.

Fine. Give evidence for that. This changs nothing regarding the burden of proof.

Nah, Iran and ISIS both have same value in the eyes of Russia and China. If Un is found out that he was supplying ISIS, nothing would have happened. Russia and China nothing should ISIS replace Iran to be the thorn of the Us in middle east. Also, NK is a more valuable pet for both Russia and China.

Wait, what? Are you serious? Give any form of evidence that Russia and China plan to support ISIS at any point. That's borderline slander on their names. Also, how exactly is North Korea ore valuable to Russia and China than Iran? North Korea is just a buffer state, and one that China would likely have to save in the event of war. Iran is the most powerful country in the Middle East, and has a massive amount of oil. The logic here is nonexistent.

Really? Tell me more about Boko Haram and many other small Sunny terrorist groups that got absorbed in ISIS. Also, you mentioned they dropped their possible allies, who are those possible allies?

Boko Haram lacks the ability to project power into the Middle East, where the fighting matters. ISIS's possible allies are, for example, Al Quaeda and the Taliban, both of whom are now actively fighting against ISIS because ISIS went out of their way to piss them off.

AND I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THEY CAN, thanks you. I have never said anything like that, but since you seem to lack ability to actually read and cant seem to remember things wrote in previous posts, I will say it again. I said that if ISIS was to be able to destroy Iran, NK may gains its support to ISIS and it's ISIS's best choice to accept it. And do you know why even China or Russia may support ISIS? Because if ISIS indeed manage to destroy Iran, it will get its hand on Iran's nuclear plants.

If ISIS gains access to Iran's nuclear plants, do you really think China and Russia would be stupid enough to believe that ISIS will stop there? This map shows the claims of ISIS:

article-2674736-1F46221200000578-100_634

Now, as can be clearly seen, ISIS has made it public knowledge that they claim lands now part of both Russia and China. That should dissuade anyone in Russia or China from supporting them out of fear if they conquer Iran. Furthermore, if ISIS goes for China and Russia, which they probably will if they take Iran, North Korea will be actively betraying its allies, who are both much more powerful than it and right next to it, if it supports ISIS. I don't see how they come out on top in this scenario.

Also, America is afraid of NK. It's all about history, little boy. May be if you take your time to read newspaper or watch world events, you will know why. NK is like a beggar and US is a rich guy. NK has nothing to lose but US has a lot to lose. NK doesnt afraid to get dirt, Us gains nothing but dirty its hands by fighting NK. Not to mention, the beggar is protected by beggar alliance which is just waiting for Us to get dirt to stab it from behinds.

Fine, I suppose I can give you that. But, North Korea is certainly afraid of pissing off Russia and China, which I have proven that helping ISIS will do. Also, don't call me little boy. It is irritating and shows a lack of maturity on your part.

Both China and Russia have their borders next to NK. Should NK fall, they will be exposed to their strongest enemy, aka US. Putin went out of his way to keep Ukraine under his control even if it's torn in two, attacked Georgia in 2008 to protect Russia-friendly regime. In history, most large empires kept a barrier of small countries around them. These contries shall act as their last line against enemy. Wars happen all the times, and having war right on your soil is a bad things. Russia had lost many of its barrier countries since WWII and then Putin took the role and defend what left at all cost. China did go to war with US to keep some parts of Korea to themselves, only for the same reason. Btw, Russia did threat to use nuclear weapon should US push harder into the north part of Korea. They both took actions to protect their borders indirectly. Giving up NK is the last thing they do. China knows that, Russia knows that, US knows that and Un knows that too. What did you do in history class, boy?

You know, none of this matters, really. The US has shown itself to be a fairly rational actor; Russia and China know this. Thus, they would prioritize getting rid of a nation that is supplying in control of Iran!ISIS with weapons over keeping their buffer state intact. In addition, Russia threatened to use Nuclear weapons in the Korean War, when both powers had much more strained relations. The same goes for China, when it was under the rule of Mao. The geopolitical rivalries of the Cold War do not apply anymore. Oh, and don't insult my knowledge of history. If you want to take me up on it, I'll show you just how much I know.

If you take your time to look at the Europe map from 1950 up to now, you may see something if you are not blind. It's not even conspiracy theory. It's basic knowledge. But since you have not a single ideal about history, talking more will be useless. I laughed when I read about the part that "Un will not risk pissing of US". It's so funny that it hurts. But hey, it shows that US's brainwashing program actually works.

What I said before about History still applies. However, if it came down to a war, the US could easily overrun North Korea. A simple look at a comparison of forces could tell you that easily.

There are obviously some old coots in the senate who are still against it. Obama doesnt have time to change much. Look at his recent actions to calm down Iran and how ugly the rest of the white house reacted to his actions. Should Hilary become the new president, she may be able to do something. Also, Syria used to be more stable than all of the other Muslim countries you mentioned. The reason why it looks so bad now is no doubt, thanks to....cough....US...cough....

No arguments here, actually. The clusterfuck in the Middle East was America's fault.

Most Muslim allies of Us are Sunny, Iran itself is...There will be no doubt that Iran doesnt like that ideal and other US's muslim allies may feel uneasy too. If there are anything that can destroy the quote "In war, it's all about benefits", it's Sunni-Shia relationship. It defies logic.

Iran is Shia. What did you do in History Class?

So, in summary: You insist on spouting this conspiracy theory with no evidence. I have identified a reason why Kim would not want to support ISIS, especially if it conquers Iran. You try to distract us all with irrelevant tracts that avoid the core of this discussion. Finally, you constantly patronize me in a manner that points to you being childish. This discussion is over. Back on topic, please.

Edited by blah2127
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Some pebbles of passing mention: Putin is a buddy of Assad and his main arms supplier, he has his own Islamic (generally Sunni, I presume) rebels to worry about on his periphery, and there's still a Russian naval base in northwest Syria (albeit one of questionable current activity). And while China's interests both stated and deducible include "the US not shaping the region at its whims," China's also include a lot of trading with noted anti-ISIS entities Assad, Iran, and the nations around the gulf- a newspaper of the party's has said it would be especially anti-interesting for Iran (and especially its oil) to fall into chaos as a result of the whole series of messes. (However that would end up working out.)

There are some complications sitting between them and being allies of Daesh.

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