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Chigai

Awakening Dungeon and Dragon Alignments

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So, basically, in the chat we decided it'd be fun to have a little thread about DnD alignments.

Basically, you say each character is one of the following; Lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, lawful neutral, true neutral, chaotic neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, or chaotic evil.

I'll start wiiith...

Chrom: Neutral good

Lissa: Neutral/Chaotic good?

Frederick: Lawful good.

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread. ;w;

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Well, edited in first, something on the matter of alignments

Gen 1+Extras

Chrom- NG

Lissa- CG

Frederick- LG/LN

Sully- LN/LG

Virion- N

Stahl-N/NG

Vaike- CG

Miriel-LN

Sumia- NG

Donnel- NG LG

Lonqu- LN

Ricken- NG

Maribelle- LG

Panne-N

Gaius- CN/CG

Cordelia- LN

Gregor- LN

Nowi- CN

Libra- LG

Tharja- NE

Anna- CN

Olivia- NG

Cherche- LN

Henry- CN

Sayri- LN

Tiki- NG

Basilio- CN

Flavia- N

Gangrel- CN

Walhart- LE

Emmeryn- NG

Yenfay-LN

Aversa- CN

Priam- Hungry

Gen 2

Lucina- NG

Owain- CG

Inigo- CN

Brady- LG NG

Kjelle- LN

Cynthia- CG

Severa- CN

Gerome- N?

Morgan (M)- NG

Morgan (F)- NE/CN

Yarne- CN

Laurent- LN

Noire- NG

Nah- LG

Edited by The-Mage-King

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I've played this game for over 80 hours and from my experience, Awakening PCs don't have much of a respect for life and the dignity of sentient beings but instead prefer to see said sentient beings die with magnificence.

In the Good vs Evil part, it says "Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships". That sounds about right for most of them.

Edited by BrightBow

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I've played this game for over 80 hours and from my experience, Awakening PCs don't have much of a respect for life and the dignity of sentient beings but instead prefer to see said sentient beings die with magnificence.

In the Good vs Evil part, it says "Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships". That sounds about right for most of them.

Meh, I’m not sure if you can simply say that the characters in Awakening have low respect for the life of others. This is war, after all. It’s kill or be killed. Even more so cause the Ylisseans are quite heavily outnumbered, which means that too much moral hesitation would likely lead to their deaths.

And honestly, I think it wouldn’t exactly be logical for Chrom and Co to feel deep regret while slaying the guys that are trying to assassinate his exalted sister/have already caused her death – or while taking those out that want to conquer and enslave the whole world. And that’s not even mentioning Grima yet, who’s just “I’m gonna kiiilll you all and this world will be miiiine” anyways.

Wars aren’t won by by showing respect for the dignity of sentient human beings. After all, as soon as you murder someone, whoops there does their dignity go. That’s kind of a problem with killing people in general and applies to pretty much all FEs.

If possible, Chrom is even shown trying to avoid running around and murdering just everyone. He recruits enemies that aren’t convinced by their cause (Tharja and Gaius) and attempts to spare lives and get people into joining his business instead of simply cutting them down (Yen’fay). While he admittedly goes for total war with Plegia out of hatred for Gangrel and his deeds (still kinda understandable), the fights versus Valm and the Grimleal are pretty much self-defence.

And even then, there are multiple occasions when people actually do show regret. Chrom sadly talks about how much suffering his actions have caused at some point, and I’m pretty sure that Lissa/Ricken C mentions the whole kill-or-be-killed-problematic as well. And then you still have Emmeryn in addition to this, I guess.

Furthemore, keep in mind that a lot of the enemies the group is taking out are actually some weird undead guys (or, in the case of the DLC) Einherjar, so there isn’t really any respect for the living needed.

Anyways… When the stuff that people say as they’re fighting in game is you’re main problem with the characters’ behaviour (could possibly be, as you reference one of Virion’s crit lines), I advise you to take a closer look at them.

A lot of the Support/Dual Strike/Dual Guard lines are actually just completely harmless chitchat (“I’ll have your back”, “I’m with you”, “Beware”, “And one from me”…). The most controversial ones are probably the defeated-enemy-lines and crits, but again, there are quite many that aren’t even problematic to begin with (“Now”, “Ready?”, “Take this!”, "I did it!"), some who are in fact plainly regretful (e.g. Libra's) and the rest is to be taken with a grain of salt - cause their intention is to be of comical nature and to express the specific character of the user, not to necessarily be the phrase that someone shouts a dozen of times across the battlefield.

So all in all… This kind of turned into a rather large wall of text. Whoops.

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"Kill or be killed" doesn't necessitate yelling "That was MIIINE" when someone else kills the guy you were fighting first.

Awakening tries to have some poignant moments where it acknowledges the brutality of war and takes itself really seriously and whatnot, but they're generally either buried deep within a pile of supports and DLC map battle convos or fail to be reflected by the story at large. Whatever may be going on underneath, Awakening doesn't ever (and probably doesn't want to) grow out of being a lighthearted romp of you vs bad guys, pay no heed to the alignment of your own troops.

There are a handful of dudes in your army who definitely have noble and altruistic motivations, but even those are defined more by their relationships in the end- starting around Cht.21, I get the feeling that the story is driven more by Lucina's devotion to Chrom and Chrom's devotion to Robin than even the good of the world.

So yeah, at the end of the day there are lots of characters who prefer to do The Right Thing when given a chance, but at the end of the day they're motivated by relationships above all else.

Edited by Czar_Yoshi

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"Kill or be killed" doesn't necessitate yelling "That was MIIINE" when someone else kills the guy you were fighting first.

That specific character does start as a Mercenary, so there is a reason for her to care about kills. :Kappa:

in the end- starting around Cht.21, I get the feeling that the story is driven more by Lucina's devotion to Chrom and Chrom's devotion to Robin than even the good of the world.

B-b-but the power of plot armor friendship will save us! You infidel just don't know what you're talking about! :Kappa:

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B-b-but the power of plot armor friendship will save us! You infidel just don't know what you're talking about! :Kappa:

Seriously though, this actually is a thing- in Awakening's world, morality is effectively based off bonds. So within the game, being able to access the power of friendship really is morally superior to saving the world.

Unfortunately by that logic every one of your units is Good-aligned which makes this discussion fairly pointless.

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If morality is based in bonds, that explains why Excellus is portrayed as unsympathetically as possible. Not that he isn't a dick, but that's hardly unique among Awakening charcters. In terms of actions, Cervantes is about as bad--he doesn't kill anyone Chrom cares about, but presumably he's killed innocents while working for Walhart, for pretty flimsy reasons--but he's treated as a misguided but honorable opponent.

Can't add anything to the alignments. I have a hard time telling them apart.

Edited by isetrh

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"Kill or be killed" doesn't necessitate yelling "That was MIIINE" when someone else kills the guy you were fighting first.

It's probably there because of the developers trying to be funny/trying to show us what a big bad meanie Severa can be at times. Or since she totally tries to lift the mood during battle by cracking some cool jokes.

Awakening tries to have some poignant moments where it acknowledges the brutality of war and takes itself really seriously and whatnot, but they're generally either buried deep within a pile of supports and DLC map battle convos or fail to be reflected by the story at large. Whatever may be going on underneath, Awakening doesn't ever (and probably doesn't want to) grow out of being a lighthearted romp of you vs bad guys, pay no heed to the alignment of your own troops.

There are a handful of dudes in your army who definitely have noble and altruistic motivations, but even those are defined more by their relationships in the end- starting around Cht.21, I get the feeling that the story is driven more by Lucina's devotion to Chrom and Chrom's devotion to Robin than even the good of the world.

So yeah, at the end of the day there are lots of characters who prefer to do The Right Thing when given a chance, but at the end of the day they're motivated by relationships above all else.

Well, I think that's more of a general problem with Awakening's writing though.

The story has a a lot of parts that could have been done well, but in the end much of it feels a bit rushed and isn't executed properly. Adding to that, quite a bunch of the background information, regarding both the plot and the characters, is - as you said - not really accessible that easily.

And regarding the people with altruistic motivations in the army: The problem here seems to be that, by the end of the game, you don't even get to see much of the behaviour and ideals of most characters. Basically you only have Chrom, Robin and Lucina combined with Naga and the evil guys in the late story scenes, so most of the cast simply makes no appereance there.

And while the thematic of this surely could've been implemented more in supports/at the jointime of a person, this would've been quite hard to do without either repeating yourself all the time or spoiling plot surprises earlier.

Finally, I agree that the relationship stuff seems to be kind of overdone by lategame. Yeah, the marry-people-to-each-other-, support-everyone- and let-us-all-be-friends-forever-aspects of the game were important to both it's mechanics and the story, but at the end of the day the extreme devotion of the main characters to each other coming lategame is somewhat... blergh.

I mean, when I see Lucina's judgement scene (Ch.21) I'm still kind of thinking "You want to kill me now because I'm evil and can be brain-controlled by Mr. Dark Priest of Doom, what will probably lead to this world's destruction... or because you love your daddy so much?".

Seriously though, this actually is a thing- in Awakening's world, morality is effectively based off bonds. So within the game, being able to access the power of friendship really is morally superior to saving the world.

Unfortunately by that logic every one of your units is Good-aligned which makes this discussion fairly pointless.

I'm not sure if friendship is really more important than saving the world for most of the story (Plegia and Valm don't even feature this thematic all that much), but as endgame comes, things kinda turn from the two motives going hand in hand to... whatever that even is. The totally meaningful choices you can do don't help here at all.

Besides this... Of course friendship is superior to saving the world. FRIENDSHIP CONQUERS THEM ALL.

And that's the reason why one day, when there's (possibly) a remake of this game, Walhart will have S rank support conversations with every unit in the game (even beautiful princess Excellus, the random archer guy on the left bottom side of Ch.3, Mustafa and Phila, who will both return from the dead because why not).

And furtherhence, he was only called Walhart the Friendly, and he somehow became the new main character of Awakening and smashed the big bad evil Grima guy to pieces with his outrageously fabulous army of friendship warriors soaring across the sky on their pink rainbow unicorns. The end.

If morality is based in bonds, that explains why Excellus is portrayed as unsympathetically as possible. Not that he isn't a dick, but that's hardly unique among Awakening charcters. In terms of actions, Cervantes is about as bad--he doesn't kill anyone Chrom cares about, but presumably he's killed innocents while working for Walhart, for pretty flimsy reasons--but he's treated as a misguided but honorable opponent.

Cervantes gets bonus points for having his absolutely gorgeous beard, I guess.

Edited by Sias

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Besides this... Of course friendship is superior to saving the world. FRIENDSHIP CONQUERS THEM ALL.

And that's the reason why one day, when there's (possibly) a remake of this game, Walhart will have S rank support conversations with every unit in the game (even beautiful princess Excellus, the random archer guy on the left bottom side of Ch.3, Mustafa and Phila, who will both return from the dead because why not).

And furtherhence, he was only called Walhart the Friendly, and he somehow became the new main character of Awakening and smashed the big bad evil Grima guy to pieces with his outrageously fabulous army of friendship warriors soaring across the sky on their pink rainbow unicorns. The end.

Cervantes gets bonus points for having his absolutely gorgeous beard, I guess.

I'd love to see that.

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I've never really liked DND alignments that much since they tend to marginalise aspects of characters. In the case of Awakening, I'd have to agree with Brightbow that the vast majority would fit onto the neutral dimension pretty cleanly though. Libra is the only unit that probably fits Lawful Good.

To give an example of the marginalisation criticism though, I think Chrom is actually closer to Chaotic Good than anything else. He definitely has a twinge of Neutral in there, but he seems to have some kind of moral imperative, and a disregard for rules, despite being a royal. Although it's not awfully consistent, which makes it hard to pin it down. Comparatively, Lucina is weird because her mannerisms are that of a Lawful Good character, but many of her actions are centred around interferring with Order. In some ways, it feels like she's a Chaotic Good character attempting to to be Lawful Good.

Edited by Irysa

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Chrom- NG
Lissa- CG
Frederick- LN (would do anything for Chrom, and while kind to some, he isn't what i would call good)
Sully-LG
Virion- N
Stahl-NG
Vaike- CN
Miriel-LN
Sumia- NG

Donnel- NG
Lonqu- LN
Ricken- NG
Maribelle- LG
Panne-N (has a strict honor but probably not lawful anywhere outside a warren)
Gaius- CN (raided farms and towns but not a bad guy just very self serving)
Cordelia- LG
Gregor- LG
Nowi- CN
Libra- LG
Tharja- NE? (In her supports she is much nicer than she seems but her treatment of Noire is quite evl)
Anna- N (completely self serving)
Olivia- NG
Cherche- NG
Henry- CE
Sayri- LG
Tiki- NG
Basilio- CN
Flavia- N
Gangrel- CE
Walhart- LE
Emmeryn- NG
Yenfay-LN
Aversa- CE
Priam- N

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