Avatar asset/flaw growth additions revised

[VincentASM]

For those not in the know, for a long time, the only data we had for Awakening's growth rates was from the official Japanese guidebooks. However, the growth data there was in the form of charts, not exact numbers.

Not too long ago, the 3DS's encryption was cracked, so we could finally delve into Awakening's code. But unfortunately, like New Mystery before, growth data was ciphered and not completely resolvable.

Most of the current growth data seemed to hold water, but one of the common observed deviations was Avatar proc'ing +2 HP with an apparent 95% growth rate according to the information we have (aka on the site).

As far as I could tell, the character and class data are 99% accurate, except for super-high values and the Avatar's HP growth doesn't really fit that bill.

Which can only mean one thing...

...and today, I can finally reveal, the asset/flaw growth mods are slightly incorrect.

Before, we thought they were +/-15 for HP, then +/-10 for the other main stats and +/-5 for the sub stats. Why? The guidebooks had ^^^ for HP, ^^ for main stats and ^ for sub stats. Sadly, that was a simplification.

HP is actually +30% if chosen as the Asset and -20% if chosen as a Flaw. This would boost Avatar's common 95% growth to 110% and easily explain the +2.

Meanwhile, the other main stats are actually +15% if chosen as the Asset and -10% if chosen as the Flaw. Eg. if you pick Strength as an Asset, it will gain 15%, rather than the current 10%.

Everything else remains the same, as far as I can tell.

That is all.

...And the spark may have been a tumblr post.

Oh, actually, one last thing: it seems Asset/Flaw was originally going to be personality based, rather than stat-based. Although the personalities were way too obviously stat-based (eg. "Powerful" for Strength and "Wise" for Magic), so they probably thought it was pointless.

Edited May 10, 2015 by VincentASM

[TheEnd]

Oh, actually, one last thing: it seems Asset/Flaw was originally going to be personality based, rather than stat-based. Although the personalities were way too obviously stat-based (eg. "Powerful" for Strength and "Wise" for Magic), so they probably thought it was pointless.

You mean like New Mystery?

[VincentASM]

Yeah, pretty much, but at least they tried to hide the fact. Here it was just gonna be Asset: Wise, Flaw: Speediness, etc.

Kind of lazy to pull the kanji from the file to check the rest XD

[Book of Ereshkigal]

That's interesting.

[Tables]

Just to check, the other stat growths are still +/- 5%, as suspected? And Luck is still +15%/-10% as an asset/flaw, not something slightly bigger (I ask since it's base change is slightly larger, +4/-2 instead of the normal +2/-1)?

So a typical asset gives +15%/+5%/+5% while a typical flaw gives -10%/-5%/-5%, and HP gives +30%/+5%/+5% or -20%/-5%/-5%?

[VincentASM]

Just to check, the other stat growths are still +/- 5%, as suspected? And Luck is still +15%/-10% as an asset/flaw, not something slightly bigger (I ask since it's base change is slightly larger, +4/-2 instead of the normal +2/-1)?

So a typical asset gives +15%/+5%/+5% while a typical flaw gives -10%/-5%/-5%, and HP gives +30%/+5%/+5% or -20%/-5%/-5%?

Yes, as far as I can see.

My data is really messy though. After I've checked the class data, I'll triple check the asset/flaw data.

For some reason, I thought this data would be harder to find or even ciphered XD

Hopefully IS doesn't notice this post and keeps the Avatar creation data easy to find in FE if...

[Knusperkeks]

May I ask you to update the data on the website when you've finished checking and inform us in this thread when that happens?

[VincentASM]

Sure, I will do. Not quite ready yet.

Also, not 100% related, but here are the enemy growth rates.

Lord____    [70]    [40]    0    [30]    [30]    [40]    [25]    [20]
Lord____    [70]    [30]    0    [40]    [40]    [40]    [20]    [25]
Great Lord    [80]    [50]    0    [40]    [40]    [50]    [30]    [25]
Great Lord    [80]    [40]    0    [50]    [50]    [50]    [25]    [30]
Tactician    [70]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [20]    [20]
Tactician    [70]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [20]    [20]
Grandmaster_M     [80]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [25]    [25]
Grandmaster_F     [80]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [25]    [25]
Cavalier_M     [80]    [35]    0    [30]    [30]    [35]    [30]    [15]
Cavalier_F     [80]    [35]    0    [30]    [30]    [35]    [30]    [15]
Knight_M     [90]    [40]    0    [25]    [15]    [30]    [30]    [10]
Knight_F     [90]    [40]    0    [25]    [15]    [30]    [30]    [10]
Paladin_M     [90]    [45]    0    [40]    [40]    [45]    [35]    [30]
Paladin_F     [90]    [45]    0    [40]    [40]    [45]    [35]    [30]
Great Knight_M    [95?]    [45]    0    [30]    [30]    [40]    [35]    [15]
Great Knight_F    [95?]    [45]    0    [30]    [30]    [40]    [35]    [15]
General_M     [100?]    [50]    0    [35]    [25]    [40]    [35]    [20]
General_F     [100?]    [50]    0    [35]    [25]    [40]    [35]    [20]
Barbarian     [90]    [40]    0    [20]    [30]    [20]    [20]    [5]
Fighter     [85?]    [40]    0    [30]    [20]    [35]    [25]    [10]
Mercenary_M     [80]    [35]    0    [40]    [35]    [30]    [25]    [15]
Mercenary_F     [80]    [35]    0    [40]    [35]    [30]    [25]    [15]
Archer_M     [80]    [25]    0    [40]    [25]    [25]    [25]    [15]
Archer_F     [80]    [25]    0    [40]    [25]    [25]    [25]    [15]
Berserker     [100?]    [60]    0    [30]    [40]    [30]    [25]    [15]
Warrior     [95?]    [50]    0    [40]    [30]    [45]    [30]    [20]
Hero_M____     [90]    [45]    0    [50]    [45]    [40]    [30]    [25]
Hero_F____     [90]    [45]    0    [50]    [45]    [40]    [30]    [25]
Bow Knight_M    [90]    [35]    0    [40]    [40]    [35]    [25]    [15]
Bow Knight_F    [90]    [35]    0    [40]    [40]    [35]    [25]    [15]
Sniper_M     [90]    [35]    0    [50]    [40]    [35]    [30]    [25]
Sniper_F     [90]    [35]    0    [50]    [40]    [35]    [30]    [25]
Myrmidon_M     [70]    [30]    0    [40]    [40]    [40]    [20]    [20]
Myrmidon_F     [70]    [30]    0    [40]    [40]    [40]    [20]    [20]
Thief_M     [60]    [20]    0    [40]    [40]    [20]    [20]    [5]
Thief_F     [60]    [20]    0    [40]    [40]    [20]    [20]    [5]
Swordmaster_M     [80]    [40]    0    [50]    [50]    [50]    [25]    [30]
Swordmaster_F     [80]    [40]    0    [50]    [50]    [50]    [25]    [30]
Assassin_M     [80]    [40]    0    [50]    [50]    [30]    [25]    [15]
Assassin_F     [80]    [40]    0    [50]    [50]    [30]    [25]    [15]
Trickster_M     [70]    [40]    [35]    [45]    [45]    [35]    [25]    [25]
Trickster_F     [70]    [40]    [35]    [45]    [45]    [35]    [25]    [25]
Pegasus Knight    [70]    [20]    0    [40]    [40]    [50]    [20]    [35]
Falcoknight     [80]    [35]    [30]    [50]    [50]    [60]    [25]    [45]
Dark_Flier     [75?]    [25]    [35]    [40]    [45]    235    [25]    [45]
Wyvern Rider_M    [80]    [40]    0    [25]    [25]    [30]    [30]    [5]
Wyvern Rider_F    [80]    [40]    0    [25]    [25]    [30]    [30]    [5]
Wyvern Lord_M    [90]    [50]    0    [35]    [35]    [40]    [35]    [15]
Wyvern Lord_F    [90]    [50]    0    [35]    [35]    [40]    [35]    [15]
Griffon Rider_M    [90]    [40]    0    [40]    [40]    [40]    [30]    [15]
Griffon Rider_F    [90]    [40]    0    [40]    [40]    [40]    [30]    [15]
Troubadour     [60]    0    [30]    [20]    [40]    [40]    [15]    [25]
Priest____     [60]    0    [20]    [20]    [20]    [40]    [15]    [35]
Cleric____     [60]    0    [20]    [20]    [20]    [40]    [15]    [35]
Mage_M____     [60]    0    [35]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [15]    [25]
Mage_F____     [60]    0    [35]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [15]    [25]
Dark Mage_M    [80]    0    [25]    [20]    [20]    [20]    [25]    [25]
Dark Mage_F    [80]    0    [25]    [20]    [20]    [20]    [25]    [25]
Valkyrie     [70]    0    [40]    [30]    [50]    [50]    [20]    [45]
War Monk    [90]    [40]    [35]    [30]    [45]    [45]    [30]    [40]
War Cleric    [90]    [40]    [35]    [30]    [45]    [45]    [30]    [40]
Sage_M____     [70]    0    [40]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [20]    [35]
Sage_F____     [70]    0    [40]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [20]    [35]
Dark Knight_M    [95?]    [35]    [40]    [40]    [30]    [30]    [35]    [30]
Dark Knight_F    [95?]    [35]    [40]    [40]    [30]    [30]    [35]    [30]
Sorcerer_M     [90]    0    [40]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [35]
Sorcerer_F     [90]    0    [40]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [35]
Dancer____     [70]    [30]    0    [50]    [50]    [50]    [15]    [10]
Manakete     [100?]    [45]    0    [40]    [40]    0    [35]    [30]
Taguel_M     [90]    [40]    0    [45]    [45]    0    [30]    [20]
Taguel_F     [90]    [40]    0    [45]    [45]    0    [30]    [20]
Soldier     [90]    [30]    0    [30]    [30]    [30]    [30]    [15]
Villager     [80]    [20]    0    [20]    [20]    [20]    [20]    [5]
Merchant     [95?]    [30]    0    [20]    [30]    [25]    [40]    [20]
Revenant     [100?]    [50]    0    [35]    [35]    0    [25]    [10]
Entombed     [100?]    [50]    0    [35]    [35]    [60]    [25]    [10]
Conqueror     [100?]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]
Lodestar     [80]    [45]    0    [45]    [45]    [50]    [30]    [30]
Grima____     [100?]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]    [50]
Mirage____     0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
Dread Fighter    [80]    [40]    [20]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [25]    [25]
Bride____    [80]    [40]    [20]    [40]    [40]    [40]    [25]    [25]

Question marks are for growths with the most guesswork, because of insufficient data.

This also means I probably know every character's growth rates : )

Edited May 10, 2015 by VincentASM

[shiningpikablu252]

...Wow, all these revelations about growth rates recently? Sure has made for a lot of work over on the wiki, but it's been worth it:

http://www.fireemblemwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Priam&curid=16732&diff=63334&oldid=61121

...Used to be pretty much nothing growth-rate wise, now it's a complete set including Dread Fighter. And that's just a small fraction of the overall work recently...

[sirmola]

Yes, as far as I can see.

My data is really messy though. After I've checked the class data, I'll triple check the asset/flaw data.

For some reason, I thought this data would be harder to find or even ciphered XD

Hopefully IS doesn't notice this post and keeps the Avatar creation data easy to find in FE if...

Given that the coding on if is probably complete by this point, and they are probably doing things like printing and shipping cartridges and boxes, i somehow doubt that's an issue. Given that the engine is the same, it will probably be a matter of finding how much the offset for that part of the code has shifted. A bigger question is weather the rom will work with any of the existing rom decription methods (which i doubt), or if we will have to wait a few years for another hole to be found

Edited May 15, 2015 by sirmola

[VincentASM]

True... the coding for the game is probably done by now.

I'm just a tiny bit worried, because brute-forcing Awakening's growths was already a pain in the butt.

May I ask you to update the data on the website when you've finished checking and inform us in this thread when that happens?

Almost forgot, but I should have updated all the pages too.

Only thing missing is probably the Maiden, but I dunno how I might find her, if she even exists as a character.

I also took out Prince Marth for now, since I'm not sure how the game pulls his stats. My random guess is that he has his own growths and then gets the Avatar's Asset/Flaw added on. But if that's true, his growths must be pretty crazy (and he already has Aptitude...).

[sirmola]

True... the coding for the game is probably done by now.

I'm just a tiny bit worried, because brute-forcing Awakening's growths was already a pain in the butt.

Almost forgot, but I should have updated all the pages too.

Only thing missing is probably the Maiden, but I dunno how I might find her, if she even exists as a character.

I also took out Prince Marth for now, since I'm not sure how the game pulls his stats. My random guess is that he has his own growths and then gets the Avatar's Asset/Flaw added on. But if that's true, his growths must be pretty crazy (and he already has Aptitude...).

Do lucinia's base stats vary if you have chrom marry the maiden? because i can totaly see the game using a predefined substitute lucinia if chrom is unpaired.

Also, as long as i have your attention, there are still a lot of site moveing errors involving the wrong image being referenced that i re ported in the "mistakes and errors on the site two" thread that haven't been fixed yet. (the bigest one is the fact that the fe 8 9 and 10 pages use the image of the torch staff for the entry coresponding to the torch Item) There is a lot of other unfixed stuff in the same thread (for example, one of the fe10 hidden item map images is from the wrong chapter, and i think one or two of the bullions use the wrong images). Sorry about derailing the thread, but I was afraid that you would not notice a post in the abovementioned thread, and get far too many PMs for you to noice one of miine.

[shiningpikablu252]

Do lucinia's base stats vary if you have chrom marry the maiden? because i can totaly see the game using a predefined substitute lucinia if chrom is unpaired.

Could be something worth testing. At least as far as the wiki's concerned, we've assumed Maiden!Chrom does in fact vary based on Chrom's stats.

http://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/Lucina/Stats#Maiden

Anyone willing to test: Try getting one of Chrom's stats to reach all of his non-Limit Breaker caps--across his entire class pool, of course--before the end of chapter 13. Then compare the stat in question on the resulting Lucina. You probably don't need to wait until chapter 13 for the playable Lucina (the "Playable" tab); you can test it on the Lucina in The Future Past 3 (the "NPC (TFP3)" tab), which should start to vary once Chrom's married. The stats present in the TFP3 tab are, at worst a close approximation of, Lucina's potential stats as an NPC in The Future Past 3. If the number on the stat in question matches that of the highest listed number for the stat, then we can know for sure Maiden!Lucina is indeed variable...

Edited May 16, 2015 by shiningpikablu252

[Czar_Yoshi]

The child base stat formula is already known so all you'd have to do is just grab a Maiden!Lucina, look at her and Chrom's stats, and solve for Maiden's stats. If the question is whether or not Lucina's stats change based on Chrom's when he marries the Maiden, I'm 99% sure they do but to check just get two different Chroms to marry Maiden and check to see if the Lucinas have the same stats. Should be a lot simpler than grinding to caps.