FEIF Phoenix Mode.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I can't say I have much interest in playing the mode myself, but I see no harm in it existing. In any game which a player can reasonably play for story, it's reasonable to have a mode which is so easy it all but beats itself. While obviously Normal Casual (as in FE12-13) is too easy for me personally to enjoy, there's nevertheless an argument that it isn't easy enough for its target audience, so this works.

[IceBrand]

I know this might seem counter-intuitive, but more options do not always make a better game.

But you're not forced to play Phoenix Mode though. What's wrong with expanding the player fanbase at bit?

[Party Moth]

But you're not forced to play Phoenix Mode though. What's wrong with expanding the player fanbase at bit?

The more options/modes the game provides, the more likely it is that entry-level players who would benefit from such modes will become confused because there are so many modes. We are looking at Normal, Hard, and Lunatic modes at least with Classic, Casual and Phoenix mode variations as well as potentially two separate games that might have to be purchased independently from one another. Except you can possibly buy both games as one version as well. Does this not sound like a confusing clusterfuck in the making?

[Jedi]

The more options/modes the game provides, the more likely it is that entry-level players who would benefit from such modes will become confused because there are so many modes. We are looking at Normal, Hard, and Lunatic modes at least with Classic, Casual and Phoenix mode variations as well as potentially two separate games that might have to be purchased independently from one another. Except you can possibly buy both games as one version as well. Does this not sound like a confusing clusterfuck in the making?

You're making it sound like people are dumb and need less choices in how they can play a game.

[Baldrick]

You're making it sound like people are dumb and need less choices in how they can play a game.

Well, what can you say about people who would find Casual Mode too difficult? Don't pretend that's not the primary purpose of this mode.

[goodperson707]

^ it is likely to be the main purpose yes, but don't pretend you can read IS's mind.

[Alphine]

Maybe they'll make it so then you lose your items as well? That's one of the few drawbacks I can see to this mode, since weapons limited in this game.

[Tangerine]

The more options/modes the game provides, the more likely it is that entry-level players who would benefit from such modes will become confused because there are so many modes. We are looking at Normal, Hard, and Lunatic modes at least with Classic, Casual and Phoenix mode variations as well as potentially two separate games that might have to be purchased independently from one another. Except you can possibly buy both games as one version as well. Does this not sound like a confusing clusterfuck in the making?

This does seem to be an issue, I propose they add a new "random" mode that selects your mode for you at random. So new players won't be confused by menu selections.

[Baldrick]

@Good; that's not the purpose of this thread, what others have been doing? Or is it that you don't like my opinion?

[goodperson707]

How do you know phoenix modes primary purpose is for new players and for it to be super-duper easy cause people apparently can't play casual. I myself thinks its likely that is the main purpose. But that is an opinion not fact and if someone thinks the primary purpose is something else they are not pretending in the slightest they just have a different opinion then me.

[IceBrand]

"Kamui falls in combat"

Kamui: No this can't be "flashbacks", I must fight for my friends/Nakama!!

[Knife]

Meh. Just like in Pokemon (another franchise that has gone from easy to mindless), you are able to turn off Exp share if you want the challenge. But then, you have that feeling that there's an easier, quicker, lazier way to play the game and that with exp share on. That's how a lot of newbies will be. They will think Phoenix mode is how FE is supposed to be and won't really care for more difficult modes because again, they have Phoenix mode which is quicker, easier, and lazier than the higher difficulties.

At least with this mode, I can rekill characters I dislike, so that's a plus for me I guess

[Jedi]

Meh. Just like in Pokemon (another franchise that has gone from easy to mindless), you are able to turn off Exp share if you want the challenge. But then, you have that feeling that there's an easier, quicker, lazier way to play the game and that with exp share on. That's how a lot of newbies will be. They will think Phoenix mode is how FE is supposed to be and won't really care for more difficult modes because again, they have Phoenix mode which is quicker, easier, and lazier than the higher difficulties.

At least with this mode, I can rekill characters I dislike, so that's a plus for me I guess

The Pokemon comparison is a bit silly considering the main games were never really challenging at all, the Meta game is still strong.

[Bovinian]

Meh. Just like in Pokemon (another franchise that has gone from easy to mindless), you are able to turn off Exp share if you want the challenge. But then, you have that feeling that there's an easier, quicker, lazier way to play the game and that with exp share on. That's how a lot of newbies will be. They will think Phoenix mode is how FE is supposed to be and won't really care for more difficult modes because again, they have Phoenix mode which is quicker, easier, and lazier than the higher difficulties.

At least with this mode, I can rekill characters I dislike, so that's a plus for me I guess

I do hope they at least describe Phoenix Mode as "a mode intended to ease newcomers into the game" or something of the sort so it's clear that it isn't meant to accurately represent the standard Fire Emblem experience. Though I would rather they go with "A mode where your units cannot be defeated. Strategy is not required"

Edited May 12, 2015 by Bovinian

[Party Moth]

You're making it sound like people are dumb and need less choices in how they can play a game.

People aren't dumb, but If is getting more convoluted by the day.

This does seem to be an issue, I propose they add a new "random" mode that selects your mode for you at random. So new players won't be confused by menu selections.

I appreciate the sarcasm.

Last thing I have to say is that there is a reason mobile gaming has been picking up over the years, and while addictive gameplay is a part of that, simplicity is also a factor. My point in all of this was not to say that people are dumb, but to point out that more options is not always the best choice, which is something I haven't seen anyone point out here and thought it was worth mentioning. I think Casual Mode does the job in regards to picking up a new fanbase and that to push further than that yields diminishing returns. There should be better ways to integrate new players than simply creating a new mode every time someone refuses the previous eight.

[Deathtrap]

I wish they would add modes I would actually use. I don't mind this one announced but I am more than likely going to ignore it. I thought we could switch difficulties midgame? FE isn't even THAT hard, even if you are a newcomer to the series.

[Neoleo21]

You people don't know what handholding is because this isn't it at all (Handholding is the Devs not giving the player the chance to learn mechanics on their own, it bogs down pace and can hurt the introductions of otherwise fine games, prominent example being Skyward Sword, this mode does none of that). I like modes like casual because I'll be able to do crazy experimental playthroughs with characters I'd really won't think of using normally and weird strategies you'd never really get away with in the classic mode, especially if Nohr ends up being pretty hard, something like this mode adds replay value to someone like myself. It also might make it a bit easier to get the support convos. As this benefiting Hoshido, I dunno, that game's probably going to be more like Gaiden or something and I get to experiment either way.

[Lord Raven]

Phoenix mode is going to be fucking awesome

"SIR, WE'RE EXPERIENCING CASUALTIES, WHAT SHOULD WE DO"

"SEND MORE PEOPLE AT THEM, THEYVE GOT TO SURRENDER SOMETIME"

People aren't dumb, but If is getting more convoluted by the day.

How is if getting more convoluted? Edited May 12, 2015 by Lord Raven

[Refa]

I can't think of a single person who was turned off by the fact that you were punished for killing off characters in Casual Mode.

[Party Moth]

How is if getting more convoluted?

Japan has two separate physical copies, each of a different game, a digital copy that lets you choose one version and locking the other path, and a special edition with both games/DLC. Any routes not unlocked can be purchased through DLC. This is just purchasing the game.

Now, assuming that Lunatic+ or some equivalent is returning, there are about 9-12 modes: Normal/Classic, Hard/Classic, Lunatic/Classic, Normal/Casual, Hard/Casual, Lunatic/Casual, Normal/Phoenix, Hard/Phoenix, and Lunatic/Phoenix plus any possible Lunatic+ modes. That's a lot of options for the player; how is a newcomer going to know which one will suit them best? How are the levels going to be designed to accommodate for 9+ modes?

Mind you, I'm still somewhat looking forward to the game, but ever since the reveal of the split versions in Japan I can't help but feel that If is trying to please every crowd by spreading itself thin.

[Thane]

The Pokemon comparison is a bit silly considering the main games were never really challenging at all, the Meta game is still strong.

This. Not to mention the very first Pokémon games had completely broken AI and trainers who were supposed to be challenging...well, weren't. A few examples would be the AI spamming agility until they run out of pp, Gary's Arcanine having Ember and Roar in the Elite Four and so on.

Meanwhile, the online Pokémon fights are just as complex as ever, if not more so, considering all the items, mega evolutions and other fun stuff.

As for Phoenix Mode, it caught me completely off guard, but since it doesn't affect me in the slightest being an optional way to play the game, I don't mind at all. I'm sure Youtubers who want to record everything are rejoicing.

[Lord Raven]

@Refa: You mean weren't? If you mean weren't, then I agree.

That's a lot of options for the player; how is a newcomer going to know which one will suit them best? How are the levels going to be designed to accommodate for 9+ modes?

It's pretty easy to figure out which would suit you best...

Mind you, I'm still somewhat looking forward to the game, but ever since the reveal of the split versions in Japan I can't help but feel that If is trying to please every crowd by spreading itself thin.

Anything can sound convoluted if you put it the way you did. Three difficulties with three game modes, and there are 3 versions of the game that converge after a certain point in the story. Edited May 12, 2015 by Lord Raven

[XeKr]

Spreading something thin trying for widespread appeal is primarily relevant in a context with tradeoffs. For example Action RPGs are often criticized for not being strategic enough by RPG fans and not being as exciting/skillful as full-blown action games. Writing a lot of support conversations to cover the range of potential relationships costs resources for writing/editing elsewhere. And so on.

In this case, the classic experience is preserved (and likely designed around). Widespread appeal has little tangible cost or loss here (getting irrationally mad people are playing the "wrong" way doesn't count).

Edited May 12, 2015 by XeKr

[Bovinian]

Japan has two separate physical copies, each of a different game, a digital copy that lets you choose one version and locking the other path, and a special edition with both games/DLC. Any routes not unlocked can be purchased through DLC. This is just purchasing the game.

Now, assuming that Lunatic+ or some equivalent is returning, there are about 9-12 modes: Normal/Classic, Hard/Classic, Lunatic/Classic, Normal/Casual, Hard/Casual, Lunatic/Casual, Normal/Phoenix, Hard/Phoenix, and Lunatic/Phoenix plus any possible Lunatic+ modes. That's a lot of options for the player; how is a newcomer going to know which one will suit them best? How are the levels going to be designed to accommodate for 9+ modes?

Mind you, I'm still somewhat looking forward to the game, but ever since the reveal of the split versions in Japan I can't help but feel that If is trying to please every crowd by spreading itself thin.

When the player first creates the new game, they'll first be prompted to choose among Normal/Hard/Lunatic, then among Phoenix/Casual/Classic. A player new to the series will most probably go for Normal initially. They can just decide among Phoenix/Casual/Classic based on personal preference by reading the descriptions. It's not really the same as choosing between 9 separate modes all at once.

Also to be quite honest, I don't think the game needs to be balanced with Phoenix in mind at all. The point of Phoenix is basically to throw out all challenge anyway. Will anyone actually opt to play Phoenix Mode on Normal and then complain that it's too easy? As for it being too hard..............I'm not even going to go there.

[Magical Glace]

The real question is where they respawn, obvsly.

I like the name (Phoenix Mode is pretty badass sounding, no Mokou bias at all nope) but the idea sounds a bit silly. At least make it like, five turns or something. Retreating only to come back a turn later is out there and removes a lot of strategy...