Character Designs

[Loki Laufeyson]

The fan service wasn't the main point of my argument. What I said was that I don't like the character designs at all, and the most glaring examples happen to be female characters. The one I dislike the least is Elfie, and I could complain a lot about Ryouma's armor which I think just looks bad - it could've been tolerable without that "helm".

However, I don't agree with you whatsoever; it's not the male characters who have those awkward poses in the official art, nor are their outfits as revealing. I'd be more inclined to listen to you if you dropped the attitude.

Im not the one with the attitude. Im trying to explain to you why these characters are designed this way. All of it, and i mean, all of it is basically some kind of fanservice. The male characters' are being showcased in a way that is appealing to the female gaze (do you know how many fangirls Tsubaki has already?) and looking "cool" for other demographics. Orochi's big arm things are supposed to make her look neat. Rinka's muscles and badass pose are supposed to appeal to both genders (and everyone in between). Marx's badass pose is supposed to draw us in. Leon almost looks suggestive in his expression. The Ninjas with their tiddy window outfits really kinda...well yeah thats pretty fanservicey.

Boobs and Butt Poses or bnb for short, is annoying and i will give you that. But im not really seeing a huge problem with the designs since they are made with so huge of a demographic in mind.

I dunno, I mean they're handsome sure but that's not really fanservice. RPGs usually have cute playable characters anyway. I see no cute poses or outfits on the guys like with some of the girls.

But I do agree Charlotte showing some skin and trying to look hot even if she fails at it is fine considering her description and class.

Hinata and Tsukuyomi look like shota bait, tbh. Joker is Butler Fanservice. Its there, its just not as loud and in your face as the girls' designs.

[Thane]

You need to realize that the male characters are also fanservice incarnate, ok? Therefore the fanservice is very very evenly spread. If it were simply the females getting fanservice treatment, then perhaps i could understand the anger. But since that is not the case, i think its time to relax. Equal Opportunity Fanservice is good. Its inclusive and doesnt ignore demographics.

Im not the one with the attitude. Im trying to explain to you why these characters are designed this way. All of it, and i mean, all of it is basically some kind of fanservice. The male characters' are being showcased in a way that is appealing to the female gaze (do you know how many fangirls Tsubaki has already?) and looking "cool" for other demographics. Orochi's big arm things are supposed to make her look neat. Rinka's muscles and badass pose are supposed to appeal to both genders (and everyone in between). Marx's badass pose is supposed to draw us in. Leon almost looks suggestive in his expression. The Ninjas with their tiddy window outfits really kinda...well yeah thats pretty fanservicey.

Boobs and Butt Poses or bnb for short, is annoying and i will give you that. But im not really seeing a huge problem with the designs since they are made with so huge of a demographic in mind.

Hinata and Tsukuyomi look like shota bait, tbh. Joker is Butler Fanservice. Its there, its just not as loud and in your face as the girls' designs.

And I'm just telling you you come across as overbearing and patronizing which makes people less willing to listen to you. Not that I would anyway, since I couldn't possibly take your supposed arguments seriously even if I tried.

[goodperson707]

I don't have issues with the amount of clothes charlotte is not wearing, since it works with both the class and her character. Better than some certain other characters, I'd say. I'd wish kozaki would draw more gravity-conforming boobs, though, it's not like actual real boobs aren't attractive or anything we don't need balloon shaped boobs everywhere

But I also think she could really stand to be bulkier. Fighter is one of the highest strength base classes in the game and if the game is okay with giving Rinka muscles, why not Charlotte?

I would just like to say what is with this ripped muscles = strength in fire emblem thing. I get that you need muscles. But not everyone who fights has ripped muscles, nor is muscle size completely related to strength in swinging an axe in combat. the only really ripped fighters that i remember off the top off my head in fire emblem are mainly most of the axe fighters and a couple mercenaries. But for most of them it seems to fit their characters (quite frankly it seems fighters are typecast as the muscle bound bruiser, even though he is dawn brigade i kinda like nolan for not going along with that) and honestly large muscles don't seem to fit her character that much so i am kinda glad she wasn't class-casted.

On her boobs i find it might be that her boobs are meant to look fake. If not it is still ironic.

[Jedi]

My point was that she looks just as dumb as the other characters, so I really don't see why people complain. I just can't see what's so different about her.

I'm not saying you can't discuss it or anything, obviously! When I say that I don't understand, I mean precisely that: I have no idea where people are coming from.

And how do the characters apart from Camilla look dumb?

And I'm just telling you you come across as overbearing and patronizing which makes people less willing to listen to you. Not that I would anyway, since I couldn't possibly take your supposed arguments seriously even if I tried.

It's a good thing no one takes you seriously in the first place. This may have been an insult were it from anyone else.

[Anacybele]

And the 46th time the Prude Alarm went off today is right here. You know, people (in general), its ok to not like someone's design or be a bit unnerved by overt sexual content. But being really hateful about it, calling things trash, and the people who may enjoy stuff like this trash, is just beyond uncalled for.

As for Charlotte, it looks like her look is actually a part of her character. She lures people(read: men) in with her buxomness and tries to manipulate them that way. So her outfit is actually fitting for her character.

I didn't know Charlotte's bio was anywhere, sorry about that. But I still don't like it... I guess using the word trash was a little much though.

[Loki Laufeyson]

And I'm just telling you you come across as overbearing and patronizing which makes people less willing to listen to you. Not that I would anyway, since I couldn't possibly take your supposed arguments seriously even if I tried.

Your loss. Im literally trying to help you understand something. Seems like you are just too hot under the collar to actually want to listen to any explanation to begin with.

I would just like to say what is with this ripped muscles = strength in fire emblem thing. I get that you need muscles. But not everyone who fights has ripped muscles, nor is muscle size completely related to strength in swinging an axe in combat. the only really ripped fighters that i remember off the top off my head in fire emblem are mainly most of the axe fighters and a couple mercenaries. But for most of them it seems to fit their characters (quite frankly it seems fighters are typecast as the muscle bound bruiser, even though he is dawn brigade i kinda like nolan for not going along with that) and honestly large muscles don't seem to fit her character that much so i am kinda glad she wasn't class-casted.

On her boobs i find it might be that her boobs are meant to look fake. If not it is still ironic.

In Charlotte's case, shes supposed to be a fighter. It is kind of strange that she isnt very muscular like Rinka. (or at very least, have some Black Widow style abs) I guess we can be all "well its more stylized, so she can lift anyway." Kinda like Elfie.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I didn't know Charlotte's bio was anywhere, sorry about that. But I still don't like it... I guess using the word trash was a little much though.

Its way cool. Initial appearances can be like "dude wtf." cuz to be honest, when i saw her image and her arm poses, im like wat. It looks like she all "Kamui-sama, please stare at mine teats!" And then i read her bio and was all "Oh." I appreciate the graceful response more than you know.

[Honey Bunny]

I really like Benoit's armor. It looks pretty cool while being fairly simple/not particularly extravagant. In fact it just looks like some black slates pinned together. The guy doesn't seem to be getting much attention though but in terms of designs Benoit's one of my favorite so far!

Also I posted this in another thread earlier, but I suppose it's more relevant here: Zero, the Nohrian thief with white/silver hair, appears to wear an eye patch. You can see him pairing up with Cyrus to fight Orochi and Oboro here. Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free! ...No... just me?

You aren't the only one who likes Benoit. He has very quickly grown on me, and I'm having trouble pinpointing exactly why. Part of it is that he looks sort of like a young Garon before he went evil, but there's more to it than that. I don't know why, but I'm finding something lovable in those craggy features of his.

Zero looks interesting. Man, I wonder what the story behind the eyepatch is. You are a pirate! Yar har fiddle dee dee! Do what you want cause a pirate is free!...Okay I'll stop now.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Honey Bunny

[FrostyFireMage]

I bet nobody would complain if all the guys were shirtless with rippling abs.

[HeroMystic]

I bet nobody would complain if all the guys were shirtless with rippling abs.

You haven't seen all the parodies of 300 then.

[goodperson707]

In Charlotte's case, shes supposed to be a fighter. It is kind of strange that she isnt very muscular like Rinka. (or at very least, have some Black Widow style abs) I guess we can be all "well its more stylized, so she can lift anyway." Kinda like Elfie.

why does fighter = muscles? I really want to know. yes most fighters have muscles but that seems to be a Type-casting their characters to match the muscles ie Nolan is not overly muscular and he has a much different personality than nearly every other fighter. Also not many other classes have characters that are overly muscular, and other classes have high strength, and other characters have high strength without overly large muscles. I love that we have females in a known to have high strength like fighter. But i don't see why all fighters have to have muscles nor why charlotte needs muscles if it doesn't fit her character. Which it doesn't. If we did not have Rinka i might be uneasy of the implications that females don't have muscles, but we do have rinka so i don't see the problem.

[Loki Laufeyson]

why does fighter = muscles? I really want to know. yes most fighters have muscles but that seems to be a Type-casting their characters to match the muscles ie Nolan is not overly muscular and he has a much different personality than nearly every other fighter. Also not many other classes have characters that are overly muscular, and other classes have high strength, and other characters have high strength without overly large muscles. I love that we have females in a known to have high strength like fighter. But i don't see why all fighters have to have muscles nor why charlotte needs muscles if it doesn't fit her character. Which it doesn't. If we did not have Rinka i might be uneasy of the implications that females don't have muscles, but we do have rinka so i don't see the problem.

Oh it has to do with axes usually being hella huge and being able to lift and wield them well enough. To be fair about Nolan, hes kinda covered up for the most part. So its hard to say if hes really buff. He could be lean-buff, but likely to be buff regardless. Boyd is kinda buff for a younger guy. Bartre and Dorcas are hella buff, Vaike, etc. Even Echidna in FE6 who was a Hero but axes, was hella buff. Charlotte could be pretty lean muscle, since i didnt see her full body shot, but she looks kinda less buff than most default fighter/axe users. Im not complaining really, because seeing a female in a fighter class in general is really exciting. I can see why some people could be disappointed though.

[ENS]

Charlotte is a Fighter. Fire Emblem tradition of shirtless fighters is not the best, but I find really annoyng all the complain about her where she's just the female counterpart of her class.

[Knight]

You haven't seen all the parodies of 300 then.

Fun fact: A big reason that many classical period armies wore little clothes was because it reduced the risk of infection when receiving a wound, cloth pieces could spread germs into an open cut. I guess that's one practical reason for fanservicy armour. Though disease doesn't seem to exist in FE, a disease mechanic of some sort might be an interesting experimental gameplay element one day.

[goodperson707]

Oh it has to do with axes usually being hella huge and being able to lift and wield them well enough. To be fair about Nolan, hes kinda covered up for the most part. So its hard to say if hes really buff. He could be lean-buff, but likely to be buff regardless. Boyd is kinda buff for a younger guy. Bartre and Dorcas are hella buff, Vaike, etc. Even Echidna in FE6 who was a Hero but axes, was hella buff. Charlotte could be pretty lean muscle, since i didnt see her full body shot, but she looks kinda less buff than most default fighter/axe users. Im not complaining really, because seeing a female in a fighter class in general is really exciting. I can see why some people could be disappointed though.

But why are fighters muscular when most paladins other axe users aren't and what's wrong with charlotte she seems like she has lean muscle in her arms. She can't change the size of her bones. Mainly i am saying why must they be large and bulgy. Also nearly every character you mention follows the type casting i just mentioned. So nolan might have muscles why then are they lean. Is it really a coincidence that the one fighter who seems much different than the others you can't see his muscles. Oversized muscles dosen't fit his character neither does large muscles fit Charlotte.

Edited May 31, 2015 by goodperson707

[thetiger39]

If Charlotte is low tier and not minimum high tier then it will be a disapointment. Charlotte better be a "boyd" and not a "nolan"

[Knight]

If Charlotte is low tier and not minimum high tier then it will be a disapointment. Charlotte better be a "boyd" and not a "nolan"

Nolan's bad what?

[HeroMystic]

Even more amused that it's implied Boyd is better than Nolan.

[thetiger39]

WE need more females that specialize in str/def rather than skl/spd/res

[Thor Odinson]

If you look at actual powerlifter or boxer arms, they still have more bulk and definition than Charlotte's. This is not me asking for Charlotte to be literally the hulk. If men get exaggeratedly large muscles as a part of a Str++++ class to show how strong they are, why can't more women get reasonably realistically sized muscles? Why must Rinka be the only exception? Is two women, who happen to have be wielding big heavy axe things, having muscle in a cast of likely 25-30 women too much muscle? In a game about war? It's not unreasonable to ask that a very small subset of women be drawn a bit bigger. Actual women have far more diversity in body shapes and apparently asking for 2 muscular ones is too much smh

And people do complain about big man muscles, actually

I mean all those comments about Ike being on steroids? Fucker's arms are no bigger than your average basketball player's. Dude hit puberty (15->18 is perfectly reasonable age for male puberty) and worked out. It's reasonable he's become as big he is in Radiant Dawn. Yet people's always about "ewww steroids" on him, even going so far to say that his smash version is totally sexist and fanservice because they used the RD design of, IDK, arms that look like they can actually lift Ragnell

fucker didn't even have a boob window

Edited May 31, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[goodperson707]

If you look at actual powerlifter or boxer arms, they still have more bulk and definition than Charlotte's. This is not me asking for Charlotte to be literally the hulk. If men get exaggeratedly large muscles as a part of a Str++++ class to show how strong they are, why can't more women get reasonably realistically sized muscles? Why must Rinka be the only exception? Is two women, who happen to have be wielding big heavy axe things, having muscle in a cast of likely 25-30 women too much muscle? In a game about war? It's not unreasonable to ask that a very small subset of women be drawn a bit bigger. Actual women have far more diversity in body shapes and apparently asking for 2 muscular ones is too much smh

And people do complain about big man muscles, actually

I mean all those comments about Ike being on steroids? Fucker's arms are no bigger than your average basketball player's. Dude hit puberty (15->18 is perfectly reasonable age for male puberty) and worked out. It's reasonable he's become as big he is in Radiant Dawn. Yet people's always about "ewww steroids" on him, even going so far to say that his smash version is totally sexist and fanservice because they used the RD design of, IDK, arms that look like they can actually lift Ragnell

fucker didn't even have a boob window

i am not saying is too much i am saying if it doesn't fit her character just because she is a fighter doesn't mean she needs them. And yes most fighters have muscles but not all axe classes do, fighter does not = muscles. And muscles does not = strength.

are there enough woman with muscles or non standard body types i would say no. But that does not mean that the female fighter has to have muscles. Especially when muscles don't seem to fit her character that well.

[Anacybele]

Its way cool. Initial appearances can be like "dude wtf." cuz to be honest, when i saw her image and her arm poses, im like wat. It looks like she all "Kamui-sama, please stare at mine teats!" And then i read her bio and was all "Oh." I appreciate the graceful response more than you know.

Yeah, I hear you. She's Nohr only though, right? More reason for me to stay away from that route.

[Thor Odinson]

i am not saying is too much i am saying if it doesn't fit her character just because she is a fighter doesn't mean she needs them. And yes most fighters have muscles but not all axe classes do, fighter does not = muscles. And muscles does not = strength.

are there enough woman with muscles or non standard body types i would say no. But that does not mean that the female fighter has to have muscles. Especially when muscles don't seem to fit her character that well.

If she is a fighter than muscles can fit into the character. LOOK at ACTUAL heavy-class fighters. It's a mark of incompetent designer if you absolutely can't pull off a cute design while factoring muscles. It's your imagination that's faulty if you can't pull off cute with a small but significant amount of muscles. Are you saying muscles ain't cute? There's plenty of ways to pull off that design while still have a bit more bulk behind it.

One thing FE has been generally good for is that it visually shows the statlines of a character. It's perfectly achievable to hit a balance between showing the strong points of the class and designing to the character. This is not mutually exclusive. I've done a couple hundred character designs in my life time. I'd know what's workable and what's not.

I mean there's the Russian powerlifter who's absolutely gorgeous and is more muscular than even Rinka. I'm not asking for the literal hulk here, god.

It's not like I'm making out the design to be an abomination to mankind here. I think it works well mostly with only a small nitpick. Why are you so against just a bit more bulk? Look, when I have arms that are thicker than some professional soldier with big axes (granted I do lift a bit) that feels weird as fuck.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Yeah, I hear you. She's Nohr only though, right? More reason for me to stay away from that route.

She appears to be Nohr exclusive. All the more reason for me to go that route. :V We are such opposites, you and me.

[Ayra]

Whelp, I've been clamoring for a female fighter but Charlotte isn't exactly what I was expecting. She doesn't exactly match what I thought what a female fighter would be like however... Linca fits what I was expecting much better.

Still, her appearance and bio does match pretty well. The outfit actually kind of matches the male fighters wears (gender-swapped). So on second thought, my opinion of Charlotte is better than before. She's still no Linca, though.