Do you 'support' LGBT supports in "Fire Emblem: if"?

[Tiny Bella]

Definitely. I think some straight people (some) kind of underestimate what it's like being a part of LGBT. Have you ever went home and cried just because society puts you in a box that you can't get out of and because you're always made to feel different or weird? Ever been afraid of telling someone something about yourself because they might just be a psycho that will beat, rape, murder you or all three? Have you ever played a game in which you still can't be yourself and still have to feel different? Sure, you'll get used to it, but that doesn't mean it won't hurt. As others have said, I'm sure you would hate it if every character was LGT and you therefore would have to switch your in game gender just to be with said character. That's what happens to LGBT people. Maybe it's small, but to, for once, feel like a human being instead of "LGBT", to not have to feel so different, I think for a lot of LGBT people that would be amazing.

Unfortunately, it seems it isn't happening in Fates. I don't hate the children system, but as others have said, I'd gladly trade them for same-sex marriage in the game. Now as far as how it would work in the game if it did happen, I think someone said that maybe we could have a setting to change a characters sexuality and I like that best. The only alternative to (kind of) keep everyone happy would be to make everyone bi, which as others have said does seem a bit strange.

I'm still hoping that maybe there'll be an adoption thing and maybe they could still include it...but nah, that's a false hope. Oh well...maybe someday...

[eclipse]

Definitely. I think some straight people (some) kind of underestimate what it's like being a part of LGBT. Have you ever went home and cried just because society puts you in a box that you can't get out of and because you're always made to feel different or weird? Ever been afraid of telling someone something about yourself because they might just be a psycho that will beat, rape, murder you or all three? Have you ever played a game in which you still can't be yourself and still have to feel different? Sure, you'll get used to it, but that doesn't mean it won't hurt. As others have said, I'm sure you would hate it if every character was LGT and you therefore would have to switch your in game gender just to be with said character. That's what happens to LGBT people. Maybe it's small, but to, for once, feel like a human being instead of "LGBT", to not have to feel so different, I think for a lot of LGBT people that would be amazing.

If you think that I'm going to sympathize with your views by putting it this way. . .you're wrong. Being isolated/feeling "left out"/living in fear is a condition that spreads well beyond the LGBT community (hint: try telling your parents in the deep south that you're an atheist). Yes, I play games where I can't be myself, because there's no game with a self-insert character that will truly capture everything that I am. Things will always be "off" in my eyes, whether it be because I'm paired with the wrong gender, giving responses that I absolutely do not agree with, fighting for a cause that I don't care for, etc. However, I will not let that get in the way of the game itself - the character in the game is not a representation of me, nor will it ever be. Likewise, I don't trust anyone to make a character that truly IS me, because they'd have to pry my head open, and I'd sooner die than let people see everything that runs through my mind.

You are not solely identified by your sexual orientation, you're a person, and your happiness is in your hands. Don't give that power away to a video game company.

[Mumgetthecamera]

Honestly, I'd prefer a lack of romance in games in general, and more funny dialogue instead of the very repetitive confession scenes especially when it just ends there.

Either make fewer canon choices so you can extend relationships post marriage, or just make more platonic supports.

A real genuine and loving relationship doesn't end when you get married, well it did for my dad but, lol, that's not normally the case.

I'd support the same sex couples if there was some sort of equivalent to the child units that you could get that made sense, they obviously aren't going anywhere and having the game punish you for taking that route would make the entire experience of playing as a LGBT quite useless.

While I'm not exactly opposed to it, it shouldn't be ANYWHERE near close to the top priority in a game like this anyway.

[Awakener_]

If you think that I'm going to sympathize with your views by putting it this way. . .you're wrong. Being isolated/feeling "left out"/living in fear is a condition that spreads well beyond the LGBT community (hint: try telling your parents in the deep south that you're an atheist). Yes, I play games where I can't be myself, because there's no game with a self-insert character that will truly capture everything that I am. Things will always be "off" in my eyes, whether it be because I'm paired with the wrong gender, giving responses that I absolutely do not agree with, fighting for a cause that I don't care for, etc. However, I will not let that get in the way of the game itself - the character in the game is not a representation of me, nor will it ever be. Likewise, I don't trust anyone to make a character that truly IS me, because they'd have to pry my head open, and I'd sooner die than let people see everything that runs through my mind.You are not solely identified by your sexual orientation, you're a person, and your happiness is in your hands. Don't give that power away to a video game company.

If my mother is having beef with me being one and we live in NYC, then Naga help the kids in the South. I rather be a member of Church of Naga than anything else.

[Tiny Bella]

If you think that I'm going to sympathize with your views by putting it this way. . .you're wrong. Being isolated/feeling "left out"/living in fear is a condition that spreads well beyond the LGBT community (hint: try telling your parents in the deep south that you're an atheist). Yes, I play games where I can't be myself, because there's no game with a self-insert character that will truly capture everything that I am. Things will always be "off" in my eyes, whether it be because I'm paired with the wrong gender, giving responses that I absolutely do not agree with, fighting for a cause that I don't care for, etc. However, I will not let that get in the way of the game itself - the character in the game is not a representation of me, nor will it ever be. Likewise, I don't trust anyone to make a character that truly IS me, because they'd have to pry my head open, and I'd sooner die than let people see everything that runs through my mind.You are not solely identified by your sexual orientation, you're a person, and your happiness is in your hands. Don't give that power away to a video game company.

Shoot, had a long post all written...then my computer started being weird. Now I need to do it again on my phone! Yay... First off, I think I have implied I'm LGBT which is not the case. I was more or less just repeating what some LGBT friends have told me and that what I said is often what they feel. That said, feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt. Now I never, ever meant to imply that only LGBT people could feel that way. I even thought about writing a message saying something like, "I don't mean to imply that only LGBT people can feel that way" but for whatever reason decided against. I think I worded a lot of things wrong. Apologies for that. I meant to say that people being defined by something like that is wrong.

Definitely don't trust a game to make you or let it define you, or ever expect to always see eye to eye with it. That said...these are self-insert characters so you should be able to, well, self-insert to an extent. I just don't think it's right that LGBT people always need to go an extra mile for somethings, especially things like video games. Again, feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt. I would like it if we could avoid calling each other wrong though, considering this all comes down to opinions.

Again, my apologies for implying some of the wrong things. My parents don't live in the South but they are very Christian. I'm an atheist myself so I can definitely relate to you on that one.

[Mad_Scientist]

If you think that I'm going to sympathize with your views by putting it this way. . .you're wrong. Being isolated/feeling "left out"/living in fear is a condition that spreads well beyond the LGBT community (hint: try telling your parents in the deep south that you're an atheist).

Try telling them your gay, and see what happens? (Hint: you're more likely to be brutally murdered for being gay than being an atheist, though neither is likely to put you in a good situation).

Also, I'm not even sure what your point is? "You got it bad, well so do other groups!"? By that argument, no one should ever complain about anything ever, because other groups also have it bad.

Yes, I play games where I can't be myself, because there's no game with a self-insert character that will truly capture everything that I am. Things will always be "off" in my eyes, whether it be because I'm paired with the wrong gender, giving responses that I absolutely do not agree with, fighting for a cause that I don't care for, etc.

It's not the same thing. Yes, every game will give you characters that are slightly off. But are you constantly, CONSTANTLY given game after game after game that is drastically off in the exact same way every time? And is the way this game is off also something that mirrors oppression you personally experience in real life? (IE, a large number of states still ban same sex marriage, and being unable to have same sex romances in game is a reminder of that.) That's a bit different, more than a bit, utterly different from simply having a main character with a personality that doesn't exactly mirror yours, and to imply it's the same is extremely... frustrating.

However, I will not let that get in the way of the game itself - the character in the game is not a representation of me, nor will it ever be. Likewise, I don't trust anyone to make a character that truly IS me, because they'd have to pry my head open, and I'd sooner die than let people see everything that runs through my mind.

Again, you're equating games not giving you a character that is an exact copy of you in every single respect, and always being slightly off in various ways, with games consistently denying you an important aspect of your life again and again and again. These are not the same thing, this is not a valid comparison.

You are not solely identified by your sexual orientation, you're a person, and your happiness is in your hands. Don't give that power away to a video game company.

I don't think you intended this, but this line comes off very condescending. People complain about various aspects of Fire Emblem all the time. And yes, sometimes people say "well, if you hate it that much, you don't have to play it." But I don't see language like "you're a person, and your happiness is in your hands. Don't give that power away to a video game company" being used to dismiss the complaints of people who don't like the the face touching. It comes off as preachy and condescending, not just as a simple "well, if it upsets you too much, just don't buy it" but rather it implies that they don't even have a right to be upset, as though being upset is somehow childish.

Also, yes, of course people are not solely identified by their sexual orientation. But for many, it's a pretty important aspect of who they are, and to have that aspect constantly ignored is frustrating. In addition, while LGBT people are told not to solely identify based on those aspects of their life, they are constantly reduced to nothing but those aspects by the rest of the world.

When LGBT people aren't barred from getting married in a huge chunk of states, when they aren't constantly othered and treated as abominations and told they're evil, when they can't be fired from their job simply for being gay, or kicked out of their apartment, or refused service, or denied the ability to see a loved one on their death bed, or countless other things because despite being told that this one aspect doesn't define them, it in fact does define a huge aspect of every single second of their lives and their interactions with others because people still view them as unequal and in some cases inhuman, when all the above is changed, maybe then more LGBT people will be a little less touchy about certain things.

But that hasn't happened. Right now, LGBT literally do not have equal rights. And your post is basically telling people who might live in a state that bars them from getting married, who have to constantly hide their sexuality, who can't even have their girlfriend/boyfriend over because they will get kicked out by their landlord, who can't be honest at their job because they will be fired, who are constantly oppressed and forced to live in fear, who just maybe want to be able to relax while playing a Fire Emblem game and actually be able to enjoy the pairing mechanic the way so many straight people can, and who express disappointment when once again, they can't... your post is basically telling those people "Oh yeah, well, atheists have it tough too!"

Edited June 19, 2015 by Mad_Scientist

[sofutoppai]

I read through most of the pages but not all of them, and felt like no one has brought this up yet.

Suppose they do include LGBT character(s) in a game one day. However, s/he/they is/are not written well and this makes the LGBT community upset. Here are some of the possible outcomes that I feel might occur:

a.) Make potential writers for future games be less likely to take up the job in fear of receiving the same negative feedback if IS intends to continue having LGBT characters

b.) Inspire IS to find better writers who will be able to portray LGBT in a better and more accurate way

c.) IS decides not to include LBGT characters anymore in their games for fear of backlash

I'm all for LGBT characters but if it happens I want them to be well written and not end up with them becoming a reason for people to blame or hate on IS.

[eclipse]

Yep. Someone would object, and in just the way I predicted.

Try telling them your gay, and see what happens? (Hint: you're more likely to be brutally murdered for being gay than being an atheist, though neither is likely to put you in a good situation).

Also, I'm not even sure what your point is? "You got it bad, well so do other groups!"? By that argument, no one should ever complain about anything ever, because other groups also have it bad.

Try telling your conservative Christian parents that you've decided to convert to Islam. Or vice versa. The point is that those feelings aren't only felt by the LGBT community, and to paint it as such is naive. People die from MORE than just their orientation - hell, someone in my state died because he peed in the wrong place.

It's not the same thing. Yes, every game will give you characters that are slightly off. But are you constantly, CONSTANTLY given game after game after game that is drastically off in the exact same way every time? And is the way this game is off also something that mirrors oppression you personally experience in real life? (IE, a large number of states still ban same sex marriage, and being unable to have same sex romances in game is a reminder of that.) That's a bit different, more than a bit, utterly different from simply having a main character with a personality that doesn't exactly mirror yours, and to imply it's the same is extremely... frustrating.

I've had games where I couldn't change the character's gender. That's just as much a part of me as my sexuality. Yet I don't see the point in making some sort of giant pity party because I can't be the same gender as I am IRL. It's not a reminder that I can't be a woman, it's simply some other universe where I'm playing out a story.

Again, you're equating games not giving you a character that is an exact copy of you in every single respect, and always being slightly off in various ways, with games consistently denying you an important aspect of your life again and again and again. These are not the same thing, this is not a valid comparison.

I'm not a video game character. I don't strive to be one, or identify as one, or want one that mirrors every aspect of my life. Such characters are a separate entity.

I don't think you intended this, but this line comes off very condescending. People complain about various aspects of Fire Emblem all the time. And yes, sometimes people say "well, if you hate it that much, you don't have to play it." But I don't see language like "you're a person, and your happiness is in your hands. Don't give that power away to a video game company" being used to dismiss the complaints of people who don't like the the face touching. It comes off as preachy and condescending, not just as a simple "well, if it upsets you too much, just don't buy it" but rather it implies that they don't even have a right to be upset, as though being upset is somehow childish.

I see someone shifting their happiness, or lack thereof, onto a video game company (actually, that's several people in this topic). It's not their job to cater to you, me, or anything that isn't their bottom line. To complain about being unhappy because some company didn't make you happy won't address the root of the problem. They don't owe it to any of us to make characters that we identify with.

In other words, I want to see self-accountability.

Also, yes, of course people are not solely identified by their sexual orientation. But for many, it's a pretty important aspect of who they are, and to have that aspect constantly ignored is frustrating. In addition, while LGBT people are told not to solely identify based on those aspects of their life, they are constantly reduced to nothing but those aspects by the rest of the world.

Do you WANT to be identified solely by that aspect of your life? I don't. Instead, I aim for an image that shows exactly the characteristics I want, in as much detail as I want them to be perceived. If you keep harping on your orientation, people will assume that it's your main identifying characteristic. I emphasize my hobbies, so people have the "gamer girl" image stuck in their head, despite the fact that games are only a single aspect of my life. What do YOU want to be seen as?

When LGBT people aren't barred from getting married in a huge chunk of states, when they aren't constantly othered and treated as abominations and told they're evil, when they can't be fired from their job simply for being gay, or kicked out of their apartment, or refused service, or denied the ability to see a loved one on their death bed, or countless other things because despite being told that this one aspect doesn't define them, it in fact does define a huge aspect of every single second of their lives and their interactions with others because people still view them as unequal and in some cases inhuman, when all the above is changed, maybe then more LGBT people will be a little less touchy about certain things.

Funny, the same could be said about race. My grandfather had his share of the things you mentioned (at least one of which would've ended with his death), simply because of his ancestry. Even though society progressed a lot during his lifetime, he never let go of that hatred. And as long as you hold the attitude you outlined, you won't be able to let go of that hatred, either. Your non-neutral reply is enough evidence of this.

But that hasn't happened. Right now, LGBT literally do not have equal rights. And your post is basically telling people who might live in a state that bars them from getting married, who have to constantly hide their sexuality, who can't even have their girlfriend/boyfriend over because they will get kicked out by their landlord, who can't be honest at their job because they will be fired, who are constantly oppressed and forced to live in fear, who just maybe want to be able to relax while playing a Fire Emblem game and actually be able to enjoy the pairing mechanic the way so many straight people can, and who express disappointment when once again, they can't... your post is basically telling those people "Oh yeah, well, atheists have it tough too!"

Progress is happening, even if it's not at the pace that you want it to. There's a difference between "you're not helping" and "why". I don't like seeing such issues being "well it's only US", because it's not - to say otherwise is dishonest. It doesn't mean that you're NOT allowed to be upset about your treatment - I support anyone who's being treated unfairly to speak out, regardless of the reason why. Just don't be surprised when someone points out that you're not alone.

I have a few more thoughts on this, but I can't articulate them well enough, so they'll have to wait for later/a PM.

[Mad_Scientist]

Try telling your conservative Christian parents that you've decided to convert to Islam. Or vice versa. The point is that those feelings aren't only felt by the LGBT community, and to paint it as such is naive. People die from MORE than just their orientation - hell, someone in my state died because he peed in the wrong place.

No one said it was exclusive. But this isn't a thread about race, or about religion, or about anything else. It's thread about LGBT supports (well, mostly just LGB as I don't think any of us except their to be a transgender character just yet) and so bringing up "well other people have it bad too" when people are expressing their frustration makes no sense.

I mean, to use an analogy of a less serious situation, if someone was discussing the face rubbing mechanic in a thread specifically designated to discuss the face rubbing, and this person expressed their thoughts and feelings about why it represents a trend that bothers them in Fire Emblem, wouldn't a "what, you think those feelings are just yours?! I'm bothered by this completely different gameplay feature" seem a little off? A little dismissive?

I've had games where I couldn't change the character's gender. That's just as much a part of me as my sexuality. Yet I don't see the point in making some sort of giant pity party because I can't be the same gender as I am IRL. It's not a reminder that I can't be a woman, it's simply some other universe where I'm playing out a story.

Still not an accurate comparison, for it ignores a couple of things. First of all, there are plenty of games where you play as a specific character. That's fine. If that specific character has aspects different from you, well, fine.

And then there are games where you play more of a self insert.

And then there are games like Fire Emblem Fates, which is a cross between the two, having some customizing ability but not on the level of say a Bioware RPG. But the fact is, you can control Corrin's gender. You can play as a man or a woman. You can control who Corrin sides with. You can control who Corrin marries. You can control Corrin's appearance.

But you cannot, (apparently) control whether Corrin is anything other than straight.

And that, by itself, would not be too bad, if not for the fact that it's both indicative of a larger trend in gaming, and that it would also be so easy to fix.

I'm not a video game character. I don't strive to be one, or identify as one, or want one that mirrors every aspect of my life. Such characters are a separate entity.

First of all, you're you, and what you want is not the same as what others want.

Also, again, people aren't asking for characters that mirror every single aspect of their life. They are just asking to have one aspect, one important aspect, mirrored if possible. They are asking for some representation.

I see someone shifting their happiness, or lack thereof, onto a video game company (actually, that's several people in this topic). It's not their job to cater to you, me, or anything that isn't their bottom line. To complain about being unhappy because some company didn't make you happy won't address the root of the problem. They don't owe it to any of us to make characters that we identify with.

In other words, I want to see self-accountability.

Again, I don't see this type of language used to deflect other criticisms nearly as much.

And you're completely ignoring how a company (ideally) will improve it's bottom line by listening to customers, and figuring out what customers want. Well, some customers want to see same sex relationships, and are disappointed it's not in. Yet the reaction I've seen to that is far, far more mild than the reaction I saw to the very existence of child characters. People were calling the game trash without playing it, dismissing it entirely, over the child characters. Yet it's people expressing disappointment over (apparently) no same sex romances that are throwing a "pity part"?

Do you WANT to be identified solely by that aspect of your life? I don't. Instead, I aim for an image that shows exactly the characteristics I want, in as much detail as I want them to be perceived. If you keep harping on your orientation, people will assume that it's your main identifying characteristic. I emphasize my hobbies, so people have the "gamer girl" image stuck in their head, despite the fact that games are only a single aspect of my life. What do YOU want to be seen as?

Well, I'm pretty sure no one wants that, but when people are denied the ability to marry, or kicked out of their home, or outright murdered, they don't really get a choice.

Funny, the same could be said about race. My grandfather had his share of the things you mentioned (at least one of which would've ended with his death), simply because of his ancestry. Even though society progressed a lot during his lifetime, he never let go of that hatred. And as long as you hold the attitude you outlined, you won't be able to let go of that hatred, either. Your non-neutral reply is enough evidence of this.

First of all, please don't pretend you know me, or what I feel, or whether I need to "let go of my hatred". And "non neutral"? Please clarify. Are you referring to the fact that I support same sex romances in Fire Emblem? Because if you honestly think anyone who does that needs to "let go of their hatred", I don't know what to say.

Or are you perhaps referring to the fact that I disagreed with your post? Again, if you think someone disagreeing with you and debating you is proof they need to let go of their hatred, I don't know what to say.

And yeah, race is a big thing. And representation matters for race too. Do you also accuse people wanting more people of color (either as options on character creators, or as specific characters) of "throwing a pity party."

Progress is happening, even if it's not at the pace that you want it to. There's a difference between "you're not helping" and "why". I don't like seeing such issues being "well it's only US", because it's not - to say otherwise is dishonest. It doesn't mean that you're NOT allowed to be upset about your treatment - I support anyone who's being treated unfairly to speak out, regardless of the reason why. Just don't be surprised when someone points out that you're not alone.

A couple things to note. First of all, I have never claimed to be LGBT. I know, given that I did obviously show some emotions in my first response, you might have assumed that. I am not going to get into all the specifics of my identity right now. Again, as I said, don't assume you know me, or what I've been through, or what perhaps some of my closest friends have been through just because I show some emotion, or whatever.

Also, I'm having trouble fully understanding what you're getting at with this paragraph, but maybe it's because I'm tired. But I would echo something I said earlier, that this thread is specifically about LGBT issues. So saying to people "well, LGBT people aren't the ONLY ones who suffer" in a thread specifically about them seems like a disingenuous deflection. Maybe you didn't intend it that way, but I see this all the time on the internet, and it's frustrating.

Again, to use a less serious analogy, we are currently in the Fire Emblem Fates board. So we are, naturally, talking about Fire Emblem Fates. The fact that we are discussing Fire Emblem Fates and not, say, Radiant Dawn, does not in any way mean that we think Fire Emblem Fates is the only Fire Emblem game. And there is no need for someone to come in and point out that there are other Fire Emblem games. It would seem kind of absurd if someone did that, right?

So yeah, again, this isn't the thread about racism in Fire Emblem, or religious persecution in Fire Emblem. It's the thread about LGBT supports in Fire Emblem. So of course that's what we're going to be talking about.

I have a few more thoughts on this, but I can't articulate them well enough, so they'll have to wait for later/a PM.

Maybe later, but for now, I'll just say something. Trying to get someone to understand where you're coming from by describing your experiences and how they affect you is not "throwing a pity party." It's simply trying to get people to understand why certain things are so personal, or so important, for you.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Mad_Scientist

[3Comrades]

The truth is Romance is some form is ubiquitous. It is in all genres from a very young age. It is touted as a way to live your life and a step to happiness and adulthood in all media, or if not that, then at least a natural condition of humanity that defines a person when going through it. Being "left out" doesn't even begin to describe this near constant showing across human culture. So much so that certain media is a must if you want to be included. Even gay artists and poets have had to couch their language and words so it can only be hinted in a certain way (the reason subtext is read so deeply in the gay community is it used to be the only way to have any representation on a human condition)

And as other people say, we have to hide. So much hiding for so many reasons where when we try to commiserate often ends in romantic fairy tales that isnt real life. No I can't "come out" or my fiance will lose her father, and her job, and I will lose friends. Where marriage isnt a question of do you want to, but are you willing to screw yourself over for me? Where any wrong move may mean violent retribution. It means that you have to take time to present to certain people, and always live in fear that an unexpected guest might find, and every sudden noise in your own home makes you start thinking "Is my life over do they know?"

It means when you do tell someone, having them tell you, you are filth, it means lying or manipulating people you love so you don't have you and the person you love, lives ruined.

It means someone who wasn't meant to find out blackmails you. It means trying to appease and make that person happy so they don't ruin your life. it means less financial security. It means talking to the person you love about the possibility of kidnapping. It means long rules about acting around family, especially younger family. All of the above is personal experience and so many people have it worse than me.

All of this happens because we are treated as wrong and so non-existent. And when our entertainment does the same thing, it is once again restating we are not accepted in this near universal human concept of love. Heterosexuality is reinforced and stated in most of all communication on the subject ever. The few about us are analyzed more deeply, changed or spoken in subtext until very recently. There is no way to say how an intrinsic part of you is included everywhere you go, and how much of ours is hidden and excluded when it is more part of our lives (if only that it affects our lives on a deeper level due to ramifications of it not being accepted).

Because I will tell you, the lack of anyone, or anything like you in a subject that is ubiquitous for everyone else is paralyzing. Because like it or not, our orientation affects so much of what we do. And honestly it hurts us. Gay people suffer from more stress due to the worry of some things straight people take for granted. Certain financial, social, and relationship anguish is extremely rare for straight couples while all too common for LGBT. And all this takes it's toll. Whether shame, grief, guilt, or just plain stress. I am not saying creators have to/need to make it available in media, but it does provide an important outlet for many of these things. It is important to us, and is appreciated.

[raazychx]

I would like to see same-sex relationships in the series. Arguably, we've already had that through Raven and Lucius... But someone on another forum made the point that children ruin the possibility of same sex relationships in these games, and they have a point. Arguably, we had greater equality in FE Blazing Sword with Raven x Lucius. Even though it wasn't directly stated, the undertones are there and it can at least be interpreted that way... In fact, I think I appreciate these two characters much more now because of their support. I never really thought about it before, but...

Anyway... FE4 was my favorite game out of the series, on the whole. They had some of my favorite characters... It was so sad, really, what happened to them. The children mechanics worked for that game because it was essential... In Awakening and FE: Fates, it's not really important, or central to the plot. There could be some other way to make characters stronger. Characters could teach each other skills, for example, but some skills might take longer to learn than others, and some skills might not be possible to teach. There are all sorts of possibilities, in that sense...

I like the support system, and I like FE4's way of handling children, but I don't like the way Awakening handled children or supports. I think it could have been better.

... And I think that children units, in general, do more harm to the series than good. FE4 had them be pretty balanced. There were some broken combinations, but from a logical standpoint, children were far superior to their parents in Awakening, due to their huge base stats, their low levels, their inherited skills, and their inherited class sets. I'd rather see children disappear altogether, unless the story is done FE4 fashion, in which case children would be required.

I was hoping that children wouldn't be a thing in Fates, but alas...

[nemissa]

Funny how criticizing pretty much every aspect of video games is ok, from framerate to graphics to the plot to the music, but the moment you criticize the lack of LGBT representation suddenly you're being too sensitive and unreasonable and letting video games "affect your happiness" (??) lol

Edited June 19, 2015 by nemissa

[Kyza]

I'm a homosexual and I see the LGBT community represented in today's media all the time, sometimes it's stereotypical sure, but it's there. Although that's with American media, we aren't talking about American media here when regarding Nintendo as it is a Japanese company, and thus their Japanese consumers come first while their American consumers come second, it's just how it is. Now this isn't to say I'm not disappointed that there probably won't be any LGBT representation in If/Fates but I understand why this is the case. In my view while sure it would be a great feature it doesn't really bother me if they decide to not include it as I've grown fairly used to this sort of deal by now, not just in FE but in other Japanese games as well. Homosexuality isn't as widely accepted over there as it is here which is something many don't seem to understand. It'll probably be a little while longer before we see any LGBT representation in the Fire Emblem series. And hey, just be happy there's at least some kind of feature that enables you to have some one on one time with a member of the same sex, I am anyway. Ultimate bromance with Silas here I come! :D

Edit: Also for those saying how Nintendo said that they would be 'more inclusive' in the future, well to my understanding that only applied to future installments of Tomodachi Life itself. They never said anything about other Nintendo games, but perhaps things will change, or perhaps there are some LGB supports included in FE If/Fates and we just don't know about 'em. Though the likelihood of that being the case seems low at best.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Kyza

[Awakener_]

Funny how criticizing pretty much every aspect of video games is ok, from framerate to graphics to the plot to the music, but the moment you criticize the lack of LGBT representation suddenly you're being too sensitive and unreasonable and letting video games "affect your happiness" (??) lol

On the other hand telling people that it not ok to force developer to add in LGBT representation without them having any vision of doing so in the first place is called homophobe and bigot. Especially when the game video is already finished being developing and it out on the market. We can go both way. :D Edited June 19, 2015 by Awakener_

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

On the other hand telling people that it not ok to force developer to add in LGBT representation without them having any vision of doing so in the first place is called homophobe and bigot. Especially when the game video is already finished being developing and it out on the market. We can go both way. :D

very much so, i love how some people can't see the irony here.

besides as the dude above you mentioned, its a japanese company, they aren't going to focus on what we want anyways first since we are a secondary priority compared to their national country

[Nanima]

On the other hand telling people that it not ok to force developer to add in LGBT representation without them having any vision of doing so in the first place is called homophobe and bigot. Especially when the game video is already finished being developing and it out on the market. We can go both way. :D

Oh we are forcing them now? I didn't know we had such power but okay. Oh and we are not asking for last minute changes. We are simply expressing our disappointment that they apparently spent years planning marriage and children for the game without once considereing that, gasp, maybe people want to marry the same gender.

Also japanese games have inclded gay romance before and no one gave a damn.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Nanima²

[Mad_Scientist]

very much so, i love how some people can't see the irony here.

besides as the dude above you mentioned, its a japanese company, they aren't going to focus on what we want anyways first since we are a secondary priority compared to their national country

Yah, I mean, it's not like gay people exist in Japan and ALSO want representation and to be able to play as themselves and- oh, wait.

Oh we are forcing them now? I didn't know we had such power but okay. Oh and we are not asking for last minute changes. We are simply expressing our disappointment that they apparently spent years planning marriage and children for the game without once considereing that, gasp, maybe people want to marry the same gender.

Also japanese games have inclded gay romance before and no one gave a damn.

This. We're forcing them. Just like the people upset that child characters exist in this game are FORCING the devs to rip out a feature of the game at the last minute, and not merely expressing their frustration at a feature they dislike.

EDIT: Oh, and I guess if they decide in the next game that say, Classic mode should be remove, and we should just have casual mode and phoenix mode, anyone who gets upset and wants classic mode is FORCING the dev to add a feature when without them having any vision of doing so in the first place, and how dare people do that.

EDIT 2:

Okay, this thread is started to get a bit heated again, and I've contributed to that myself some, so sorry about that.

It's just very frustrating.

I get that sometimes constant negativity about a game can be frustrating. And I get that sometimes people may find themselves wanting to ask "if you hate the game/features that much, why are you even posting here?"

Yet, as has been pointed out many times, this is the forum for discussing Fire Emblem Fates, not the forum for unreservedly praising it. People are allowed to be upset at the lack of features (or inclusion of others). People are allowed to criticize the game.

And it just really seems like there is a big double standard, where if someone criticizes the face rubbing, or the lack of weapon durability, or the fact that child characters and apparently time travel are back, or whatever, people understand they are expressing frustration at the game taking form in a way they do not like. And they don't accuse those people of trying to "force" Intelligent Systems to do something that goes against their vision or whatever. The most they'll get is a "well Awakening sold well, so of course waifu simulator is back."

But when people criticize something like lack of same sex romances, suddenly it's different. Suddenly we're FORCING the devs to do something. Suddenly, we're some unreasonable bullies trying to push the poor innocent devs into including things not part of their vision, or whatever. And it is extremely, extremely, extremely frustrating to see this double standard.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Mad_Scientist

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

oh goodness this is some serious salt mining we're doing tonight.

i'm all for gay stuff in games(as you'd know if you read the entire thread), but ya people are taking it way too seriously.

Edited June 19, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Mad_Scientist]

oh goodness this is some serious salt mining we're doing tonight.

i'm all for gay stuff in games(as you'd know if you read the entire thread), but ya people are taking it way too seriously.

Ok, I did just say (or imply) I was going to try and prevent things from getting too heated, so I'll just ask about this post you made in a thread involving the existence of child characters.

on the bright side, people who wanted same sex marriage supports are currently being blown the fuck out, Rest in Pepperoni's.

i'm not happy about it if its true, but i can live with it.

So, you're "all for" gay stuff in games, yet you consider the shattering of the hopes of people who wanted some gay stuff in a game to be "the bright side" of a feature you don't even want.

Huh.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

who cares man its the internet? i go on here to have fun and laugh with people, not to get triggered and upset over features that would literally change nothing about the game, get a girlfriend or a boyfriend or something duuuudddeeeeee :3

[Mad_Scientist]

If that's true, if this feature doesn't matter and you don't care and it's just the internet and all that, why have you made so many posts in this thread?

Also, let's try and refrain from personal comment's about each others love lives, okay. I'd rather not have the mods have to come down on this thread because it got too off topic and personal.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i post so often cause i have fun messing with all you serious people~

this thread should've already been locked down since children marriage thing got released, but instead it came back and i get to expereince toying with a brand new set of people who insist that this japanese children's company is going to cater to their homosexual urges <3

[Awakener_]

Yah, I mean, it's not like gay people exist in Japan and ALSO want representation and to be able to play as themselves and- oh, wait.

This. We're forcing them. Just like the people upset that child characters exist in this game are FORCING the devs to rip out a feature of the game at the last minute, and not merely expressing their frustration at a feature they dislike.

EDIT: Oh, and I guess if they decide in the next game that say, Classic mode should be remove, and we should just have casual mode and phoenix mode, anyone who gets upset and wants classic mode is FORCING the dev to add a feature when without them having any vision of doing so in the first place, and how dare people do that.

Since you wanna go that way, I'll say what does same sex support contribute to the game? Classic provide a difficultly level different from other mode, what does same sex support does? Nothing. Children is playable units, automatically a gameplay contribution and they are still a popular feature loved by a large amount of fanbase here, what does same sex support does again? Nothing again. If really want that husband and husband text next to each other, you can hack the game and edited yourself. If you that desperate for a credit page ending for your lovers, I can write one for you (can't guaranteed the quality though!). Same sex marriage will be norm in future FE (if Nintendo still there) though. Just gonna wait like me! I finally have a Asian FE protagonist to play, not exactly a Chinese but it will do for me.

Oh and to Nanime, I'm just making a general statement. Not pointing finger to anyone here. :D

Nothing against people who criticized the lack of LGBT in general, I just find them annoying for complaining everything when lesser represented groups didn't yet.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Awakener_

[Mad_Scientist]

i post so often cause i have fun messing with all you serious people~

this thread should've already been locked down since children marriage thing got released, but instead it came back and i get to expereince toying with a brand new set of people who insist that this japanese children's company is going to cater to their homosexual urges <3

Fire Emblem games have featured war, genocide, human sacrifice, incest, racism, and all sorts of horrors. Yet apparently two people of the same sex being in love is a step too far.

Also, Sailor Moon, a Japanese kid's show, featured lesbian characters decades ago.

Since you wanna go that way, I'll say what does same sex support contribute to the game? Classic provide a difficultly level different from other mode, what does same sex support does? Nothing. Children is playable units, automatically a gameplay contribution and they are still a popular feature by a large amount of fanbase here, what does same sex support does again? Nothing again. If really want that husband and husband text next to each other, you can hack the game and edited yourself. If you that desperate for a credit page ending for your lovers, I can write one for you (can't guaranteed the quality though!). Same sex marriage will be norm in future FE (if Nintendo still there) though. Just gonna wait like me! I finally have a Asian FE protagonist to play, not exactly a Chinese but it will do for me.

Oh and to Nanime, I'm just making a general statement. Not pointing finger to anyone here. :D

What does a story, or believable characters, do for a game? If you're just going to ignore everything but hard gameplay mechanics, we might as well not even have a story or named characters.

Heck, in this very post, you express appreciation over having an Asian FE protagonist to play, but there is zero gameplay aspects to that. There is more to a Fire Emblem game than just hard numbers. And yeah, eventually I'm sure there will be same sex romances in a Fire Emblem game if the series lasts long enough. But that doesn't mean that people unhappy that it hasn't happened yet should be told to just shut up, or be treated as though they're someone being unreasonably demanding compared to everyone else (including people who simply make story related desires known.)

I mean, tons of people have expressed their hopes that the child characters will be better implemented (story wise) than Awakening. Why aren't THEY also making unreasonable demands, since that also has literally zero impact on gameplay?

Edited June 19, 2015 by Mad_Scientist

[Jenoss]

No, i would not like to see that there..

Not just because i don't see lgbt like a nice add to character profile, but because i think and i'm sure that the "New part" of the community of this game is not ready for things like that, and because the fanservice around the game will be even more extended..