Do you 'support' LGBT supports in "Fire Emblem: if"?

[Rawkstar]

You can't have everyone as gay, and you can't have everyone as bisexual... but you can have everyone as straight? Really? You don't see how infuriating that statement is?

Why can't you have everyone as gay? No, serious question here, why can't you? So many people have acted like it doesn't matter what gender your character can romance, like it's a meaningless thing. If that's true, then there would be zero issues with forcing every player to play an entirely gay army. If it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter.

And if it does matter? Then why can't you see why it matters so much for LGBT people? And your Ryuma example is pretty silly. Yah, if he was gay, some people would want him to be straight. So? That would simply mean some straight people would find themselves in the situation that all gay people do, being unable to romance someone while playing as their own gender. (Though since Ryouma is blood related, I doubt the avatar can romance him regardless.) Why is that so terrible? I mean, why are the feelings of straight people frustrated at being unable to romance a gay character so much more valuable than the feelings of gay people being unable to romance a straight character?

Honestly, it's not that complicated. Just throw in a few gay, lesbian, and bi characters. The bi characters will actually increase the total amount of romances available for each gender, and the frustration of being unable to romance a particularly liked character as a certain gender will be exactly as it is now, except sometimes it will be straight people having that frustration.

Look man, I get how annoying that can be, but that's how it's been in the past. That's how the series has been developed and that's the pattern it has followed all of these years. I get it, it's not cool, but that's how it's been...and that's a fact. To answer your question, if everyone was gay there wouldn't be much reproduction...so yeah, that's one reason. Also the fact that royal families generally MARRY (heterosexually of course) for the purpose of having a Queen AND a King.

As far as the Ryoma example goes, I was referring to relationships that he could have with any of the characters, not just necessarily the MU. But you misunderstand my statement. I do not believe nor did I mean to imply that gays having feelings for straight characters is any more or less valuable than that of straight characters having feelings for gay characters. Here's the thing though - most people hoping for gay supports have already been disappointed. This won't be anything new. If suddenly straight supports completely went away, there would be a lot of disappointment. Much more than before because these people wouldn't be used to it. People appreciate what they associate with. Straight people want to see straight supports because it makes sense to them. Gay people are the same way. How do you appease both audiences?

Seriously the only way to do it is flip a switch in the options, where you had complete control over every character's sexuality, but that would take a long time to develop and a longer time to localize. Please stop acting like it's a crime to support straight character supports, there's nothing wrong with it either.

And so yes, some straight people will complain if gay characters are added. This happened in the latest Dragon Age. In the previous game, they just did an everyone was bi thing (or everyone was "herosexual" as I've heard it described, which is a decent enough way of also describing the cast in Awakening) but for the latest Dragon Age, they had bi, gay, lesbian, and straight characters.

And so some people complained.

...

And the world moved on, and Dragon Age Inquisition sold a whole bunch of copies. The end.

Literally the exact same outcome if gay supports aren't implemented into the game. Only difference is instead of straight people complaining, it's the other groups.

You know, I never speculated it that way. And I have no doubt it would happen exactly as you described. All kinds of rage and complaining on every FE forum would ensue.

Well I'm glad someone understands. There would be a lot of upsets and arguments over it.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Rawkstar

[Mad_Scientist]

Look man, I get how annoying that can be, but that's how it's been in the past. That's how the series has been developed and that's the pattern it has followed all of these years. I get it, it's not cool, but that's how it's been...and that's a fact. To answer your question, if everyone was gay there wouldn't be much reproduction...so yeah, that's one reason. Also the fact that royal families generally MARRY (heterosexually of course) for the purpose of having a Queen AND a King.

Just because something has been a way in the past doesn't mean it's the way it should be, and Fire Emblem has frequently changed things (for better or for worse) compared to the past. Also, it's not like Fire Emblem has been following one consistent pattern. Up to Radiant Dawn, it seemed like they were slowly creeping closer and closer to same sex romances, but then that changed.

Also, regarding the no children thing, well I'd say about half the forum would actually be happy about that, considering the way they've reacted to the announcement of children in Fates. But perhaps I phrased things poorly. Obviously making everyone gay in Fire Emblem Fates, a game that has already announced child characters and has a certain focus, would change certain aspects of the story and gameplay that people already know. But as a general rule, why can't there be a game where every character is gay? (They can even adopt if they still want to have something of a child mechanic.)

As far as the Ryoma example goes, I was referring to relationships that he could have with any of the characters, not just necessarily the MU. But you misunderstand my statement. I do not believe nor did I mean to imply that gays having feelings for straight characters is any more or less valuable than that of straight characters having feelings for gay characters. Here's the thing though - most people hoping for gay supports have already been disappointed. This won't be anything new. If suddenly straight supports completely went away, there would be a lot of disappointment. Much more than before because these people wouldn't be used to it. People appreciate what they associate with. Straight people want to see straight supports because it makes sense to them. Gay people are the same way. How do you appease both audiences?

Seriously the only way to do it is flip a switch in the options, where you had complete control over every character's sexuality, but that would take a long time to develop and a longer time to localize. Please stop acting like it's a crime to support straight character supports, there's nothing wrong with it either.

"How do you appease both audiences?" By having both staight and gay romances.

It's that simple. No need to have some switch and complete control over every character's sexuality, no need to add complex mechanics. Just add both! It's literally that simple.

Again, in every single Fire Emblem game that has had romantic supports, they've been limited at least with regard to characters other than the avatar. And again, Fire Emblem Fates has siblings, so it's almost certain that romantic supports for the avatar will be limited to. And again, repeating myself so often, a lot of people actually want romantic supports to be even more limited. So adding a few gay characters is not going to be some sudden inexplicable disastrous limitation of straight marriage options.

And no one that I've seen in this thread is acting like "it's a crime to support straight character supports." I want straight supports too. What bothers me is not the existence of straight supports, but the non-existence of gay supports. And yah, I gave a hypothetical of "what if everyone was gay" but that was to address a different argument about whether it even mattered what gender you could romance. I'm not asking for everyone to be gay. I'm not saying we should get rid of all straight romantic supports. I'm not even saying the majority of the supports should be gay. Heck, I know that if they add any the majority will still be straight. That's fine.

All I'm asking for is some, some, just SOME gay supports. This is not some massive attack on straightness and an attempt to eliminate straight romance. It's just asking for a little bit of inclusion.

Also, "well you've been disappointed before, so you're used to it!" is kind of a frustrating argument. Because you've had to deal with crap in the past, you lose your right to complain about it when it happens again and again and again?

Literally the exact same outcome if gay supports aren't implemented into the game. Only difference is instead of straight people complaining, it's the other groups.

Well, there are some differences, such that one is complaining about not having literally every single character be straight, while the other is complaining about having literally every single character not be gay, and I could go on, but what I think you are refering more to the eventual cooldown of forum arguments and the financial success of the game.

So, here's a question. You just now said that if gay supports are included in the game, or if they are not, will have literally the exact same outcome in regards to the above. If that's the case, then why in the world are you using "will cause forum arguments" as an excuse to not have gay supports?

Well I'm glad someone understands. There would be a lot of upsets and arguments over it.

Again, what do you think this thread is right now? Joy and happy discussions? We're in the middle of a massive, passionate forum argument caused by the LACK of gay supports, and you yourself have just admitted that the end result won't change regardless of whether they do or don't include gay characters. So why are you using forum arguments as an excuse to exclude gay characters?

[Crooks]

Literally the exact same outcome if gay supports aren't implemented into the game. Only difference is instead of straight people complaining, it's the other groups.

Ah yes the same outcome. An already marginalized and oppressed group is erased in a setting where it makes no sense for them to not be, causing people to once again feel isolated and depressed (lack of representation proven to cause loss of self-esteem, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc.) and feel excluded.

Obviously they wouldn't make EVERYONE gay. But at least a FEW bisexual characters would be nice. They're ALREADY apparently limiting the marriage pool.

And I've mentioned already in this thread, I believe, there are threads. Plural. Dedicated to straight guys starting to REALLY ACCEPT gay people and even QUESTION THEIR OWN SEXUALITY. All because of the character Dorian Pavus in Dragon Age Inquisition - the first gay male character in the series, and one of the first two gay characters in the series. Straight people were heartbroken over his tragic backstory (his father hating him for being gay, his family not accepting him/losing faith in him, and his father trying to use magic to force him to be heterosexual, said magic could leave him braindead as well).

You really don't understand. And I'm being aggressive and I'm sorry. But I hate having to feel like I'm a freak. A monster. I go to the Internet to ESCAPE that. I play video games to ESCAPE that. I'm SICK and TIRED of playing games where you can be whatever you want, including a humanoid dragon shapeshifter, but you, or anyone else, can't be gay or bisexual or transgender!

Edited June 21, 2015 by Crooks

[FutureKnightX]

Ah, it is so refreshing to see people in the video game community (and heck, I'll even throw in Japanese enthusiasts, too) actually understand this stuff. I deal with people in the TCG community mostly, as that is such a big hobby of mine, and it is truly sad how few of them actually understand. It doesn't help that the community is probably 95% male. It's a thing you notice since in one of the TCGs I play, the anime's main character is absurdly effeminate and is often obsessed with another guy and said other guy seems to notice and not mind. It's all very on the nose (in fact, the fourth season has the other guy as the main character and he chases after him, so...). And in another TCG's anime, there's not one, but TWO trans characters, and it's apparently weird to refer to them with feminine pronouns, at least that's how most of the community feels about them on that matter.

Anyways, people often ask why I pick Radiant Dawn as my favorite game, especially since I like Awakening so much (I like to pair people up, so sue me lol), and it's because of the very reason people mentioned before about characters like Heather and Soren. I never used Kyza, so that stuff is news to me. It's the same with Devdan/Danved, but I can't be blamed for that as I only played the English version lol. Also, one of the big lessons in that game is accepting people for who they are, rather than for circumstances beyond their control.

I can't help but feel that in this aspect, the series has indeed regressed. I tolerated all the hetero only pairs in Awakening, especially since I thought it was gonna be a one-time thing, but now it seems like it's gonna be a given for all FE games from now on, and I don't think I can handle that, especially since a fair amount of that aspect is in the name of pandering, which is something I despise. It's been brought up ways to have same-sex pairings while still being able to have kids and I say yes to all of that. That all works and is even rather realistic. Too bad Nintendo of Japan probably won't be able to think of such a thing (what with their "oops! We seemed to have forgotten to have same-sex pairings as an option for Tamodachi Life!" I get that it wasn't malicious, but it still requires an immense level of ignorance to do).

Hey, if Fates does indeed surprise me and allow for same-sex pairings, then I'll be very, very happy and may even make it my favorite game.

[Mad_Scientist]

Ah yes the same outcome. An already marginalized and oppressed group is erased in a setting where it makes no sense for them to not be, causing people to once again feel isolated and depressed (lack of representation proven to cause loss of self-esteem, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc.) and feel excluded.

Obviously they wouldn't make EVERYONE gay. But at least a FEW bisexual characters would be nice. They're ALREADY apparently limiting the marriage pool.

And I've mentioned already in this thread, I believe, there are threads. Plural. Dedicated to straight guys starting to REALLY ACCEPT gay people and even QUESTION THEIR OWN SEXUALITY. All because of the character Dorian Pavus in Dragon Age Inquisition - the first gay male character in the series, and one of the first two gay characters in the series. Straight people were heartbroken over his tragic backstory (his father hating him for being gay, his family not accepting him/losing faith in him, and his father trying to use magic to force him to be heterosexual, said magic could leave him braindead as well).

You really don't understand. And I'm being aggressive and I'm sorry. But I hate having to feel like I'm a freak. A monster. I go to the Internet to ESCAPE that. I play video games to ESCAPE that. I'm SICK and TIRED of playing games where you can be whatever you want, including a humanoid dragon shapeshifter, but you, or anyone else, can't be gay or bisexual or transgender!

Yah. I didn't know all that about Dragon Age Inquisition. But it goes to a point I tried to raise before, which is that including LBGT isn't just a feature we want, but something highly personal, and something that can literally have a positive impact on the world. So thank you for sharing that, and the rest.

Anyways, people often ask why I pick Radiant Dawn as my favorite game, especially since I like Awakening so much (I like to pair people up, so sue me lol), and it's because of the very reason people mentioned before about characters like Heather and Soren. I never used Kyza, so that stuff is news to me. It's the same with Devdan/Danved, but I can't be blamed for that as I only played the English version lol. Also, one of the big lessons in that game is accepting people for who they are, rather than for circumstances beyond their control.

I can't help but feel that in this aspect, the series has indeed regressed.

Now I'm reminded how in Awakening, not only did they make everyone straight, but they also introduced Ike's descendant. Cuz hey, why not get rid of the closest thing we had to a canon gay romance in the series so far? (Though I guess you could say that maybe Ike and Soren just adopted. One could hope.)

[Rawkstar]

Just because something has been a way in the past doesn't mean it's the way it should be, and Fire Emblem has frequently changed things (for better or for worse) compared to the past. Also, it's not like Fire Emblem has been following one consistent pattern. Up to Radiant Dawn, it seemed like they were slowly creeping closer and closer to same sex romances, but then that changed.

Also, regarding the no children thing, well I'd say about half the forum would actually be happy about that, considering the way they've reacted to the announcement of children in Fates. But perhaps I phrased things poorly. Obviously making everyone gay in Fire Emblem Fates, a game that has already announced child characters and has a certain focus, would change certain aspects of the story and gameplay that people already know. But as a general rule, why can't there be a game where every character is gay? (They can even adopt if they still want to have something of a child mechanic.)

"How do you appease both audiences?" By having both staight and gay romances.

It's that simple. No need to have some switch and complete control over every character's sexuality, no need to add complex mechanics. Just add both! It's literally that simple.

Again, in every single Fire Emblem game that has had romantic supports, they've been limited at least with regard to characters other than the avatar. And again, Fire Emblem Fates has siblings, so it's almost certain that romantic supports for the avatar will be limited to. And again, repeating myself so often, a lot of people actually want romantic supports to be even more limited. So adding a few gay characters is not going to be some sudden inexplicable disastrous limitation of straight marriage options.

And no one that I've seen in this thread is acting like "it's a crime to support straight character supports." I want straight supports too. What bothers me is not the existence of straight supports, but the non-existence of gay supports. And yah, I gave a hypothetical of "what if everyone was gay" but that was to address a different argument about whether it even mattered what gender you could romance. I'm not asking for everyone to be gay. I'm not saying we should get rid of all straight romantic supports. I'm not even saying the majority of the supports should be gay. Heck, I know that if they add any the majority will still be straight. That's fine.

All I'm asking for is some, some, just SOME gay supports. This is not some massive attack on straightness and an attempt to eliminate straight romance. It's just asking for a little bit of inclusion.

Also, "well you've been disappointed before, so you're used to it!" is kind of a frustrating argument. Because you've had to deal with crap in the past, you lose your right to complain about it when it happens again and again and again?

Well, there are some differences, such that one is complaining about not having literally every single character be straight, while the other is complaining about having literally every single character not be gay, and I could go on, but what I think you are refering more to the eventual cooldown of forum arguments and the financial success of the game.

So, here's a question. You just now said that if gay supports are included in the game, or if they are not, will have literally the exact same outcome in regards to the above. If that's the case, then why in the world are you using "will cause forum arguments" as an excuse to not have gay supports?

Again, what do you think this thread is right now? Joy and happy discussions? We're in the middle of a massive, passionate forum argument caused by the LACK of gay supports, and you yourself have just admitted that the end result won't change regardless of whether they do or don't include gay characters. So why are you using forum arguments as an excuse to exclude gay characters?

Again, trying to make it clear that I have nothing against the gay supports. I admit, many of my points were worded poorly and written quickly making me sound less open to the idea, but I really am. I'm just trying to make the point that it would be hard to implement it in such a way that everyone would be happy, because like I said, there will be people wishing that X was gay or that Y was straight. You have a rational view on this topic: "All I'm asking for is some, some, just SOME gay supports." I'm afraid not everyone else has that same argument, at least it doesn't seem that way. At the end of the day, I don't think that there are many people truly against the inclusion of gay supports, but there are a fair amount who would prefer straight supports. We're all really arguing for the same side from different points of view.

[FutureKnightX]

Now I'm reminded how in Awakening, not only did they make everyone straight, but they also introduced Ike's descendant. Cuz hey, why not get rid of the closest thing we had to a canon gay romance in the series so far? (Though I guess you could say that maybe Ike and Soren just adopted. One could hope.)

Yeah, that irritated me too! But the problem is, is that he does totally look like he could be Ike's son, let alone descendant. And Soren doesn't join Ike on his journey if they don't get A support, so one could figure that they decided that wasn't canon. But then who's to say that Stefan and Soren's A support isn't canon, wherein Soren helps him build a country for the Branded, which also implies Soren goes for him instead?

But yeah, I like Soren x Ike a lot. Enough to the point where I will main a deck of those two in Cipher lol.

[Mad_Scientist]

Again, trying to make it clear that I have nothing against the gay supports. I admit, many of my points were worded poorly and written quickly making me sound less open to the idea, but I really am. I'm just trying to make the point that it would be hard to implement it in such a way that everyone would be happy, because like I said, there will be people wishing that X was gay or that Y was straight. You have a rational view on this topic: "All I'm asking for is some, some, just SOME gay supports." I'm afraid not everyone else has that same argument, at least it doesn't seem that way. At the end of the day, I don't think that there are many people truly against the inclusion of gay supports, but there are a fair amount who would prefer straight supports. We're all really arguing for the same side from different points of view.

Fair enough, arguments on this tend to get heated and sometimes nuance is lost.

Yeah, that irritated me too! But the problem is, is that he does totally look like he could be Ike's son, let alone descendant. And Soren doesn't join Ike on his journey if they don't get A support, so one could figure that they decided that wasn't canon. But then who's to say that Stefan and Soren's A support isn't canon, wherein Soren helps him build a country for the Branded, which also implies Soren goes for him instead?

But yeah, I like Soren x Ike a lot. Enough to the point where I will main a deck of those two in Cipher lol.

Yah. I remember I was actually a big Ike x Elincia fan in Path of Radiance, and then was really disappointed that nothing came of their relationship in Radiant Dawn and you didn't have a paired ending. Then I saw Ike and Soren and realized all of Ike's paired endings were with dudes, and so I thought "Oh, Ike's gay, so that's why he can't get together with Elincia. Okay, I can accept that." Then we get Awakening and it's all "wait, he's not? So no Ike x Soren AND no Ike Elincia?!"

Ah, the tribulations of being a Fire Emblem fan.

[Zerosabers]

Ah yes the same outcome. An already marginalized and oppressed group is erased in a setting where it makes no sense for them to not be, causing people to once again feel isolated and depressed (lack of representation proven to cause loss of self-esteem, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc.) and feel excluded.

Obviously they wouldn't make EVERYONE gay. But at least a FEW bisexual characters would be nice. They're ALREADY apparently limiting the marriage pool.

And I've mentioned already in this thread, I believe, there are threads. Plural. Dedicated to straight guys starting to REALLY ACCEPT gay people and even QUESTION THEIR OWN SEXUALITY. All because of the character Dorian Pavus in Dragon Age Inquisition - the first gay male character in the series, and one of the first two gay characters in the series. Straight people were heartbroken over his tragic backstory (his father hating him for being gay, his family not accepting him/losing faith in him, and his father trying to use magic to force him to be heterosexual, said magic could leave him braindead as well).

You really don't understand. And I'm being aggressive and I'm sorry. But I hate having to feel like I'm a freak. A monster. I go to the Internet to ESCAPE that. I play video games to ESCAPE that. I'm SICK and TIRED of playing games where you can be whatever you want, including a humanoid dragon shapeshifter, but you, or anyone else, can't be gay or bisexual or transgender!

This, representation matters so much for LGBT, especially for transgender.

People don't understand that it isn't a simple matter of hiding something about yourself. Imagine going about your daily business, with the exception of every time somebody calls you by your birth name or the wrong gender you get punched in the gut. Now put yourself in a transphobic town where whenever transpeople come up you here words like; disgusting, tranny, and trash. Chances are if you try and come out or transition at all, you'll get shunned and turned into a shitty joke. You'll also get insulted and assaulted no matter where you go.

Representation could help this. It wouldn't fix it by any means, but it is a start. People would learn more about them and would actually sympathize with them instead of righting off their plights by saying "everybody has problems".

[GekoHayate]

Thank you very much for the read. While this study certainly doesn't work in favour of active support, the results most definitely do reaffirm that the majority of people would be indifferent towards the matter rather than vocally opposed, and would thus most likely not hinder sales as heavily as some dread. If, through some justification, characters could produce children amongst same-sex pairs as well as the straight ones, most threads will still be discussing which couples produce the kid with best stats instead of the ideal genders of the parents, for example.

It would certainly suggest that those players opposed (as in diametrically opposed; excluding those neutral/indifferent) to either the inclusion or exclusion of LGBT characters would be in the underwhelming minority, but it would also suggest that any revenue generated or lost on the basis of gameplay aspects involving inclusion would also be minimal. It would then come down to the effort and monetary cost of inclusion. Would IS simply make 4 out of a playable cast of 40 inclusive? Would IS double or triple the support dialogue to allow a majority/all combinations? Would any of the various routes IS could pursue generate enough revenue to cover any loss in sales from disgruntled fans/warrant the expense and effort? Awakening focused extensively on the inclusion of a more casual fanbase (that dwarfed the old school demogrpahic), and thanks to that change we are able to even have this discussion on inclusiveness in future Fire Emblem titles.

At the end of the day even the heterosexual pairings with the "best" or "cutest" supports are shunned in favor of eugenics. Ike has base 1 magic and a 20% growth rate in PoR and Soren has base 0 strength and a 5% growth rate, I'm sorry to say this but in terms of Waifu Emblem mechanics Soren!Ike-jr. would be grossly suboptimal.

[exizel]

Are awakening's writers the same as radiant dawn's?
oh and I have seen people who think Gerick and Joshua may have end up together in their ending

What annoys me the most is that they know that people want gay relationship( when they talk about FE amie the fact they precise that you can do it with someone of your sex is one exemple of trying t please people who want gay relationship).

it reminds me of persona 4, when people looked in the game's data they found out they were a gay option at some point in the game development.

adding a few gay romance will cost nothing compare to rest of the game and someday I would like that someone show a real proof that adding gay romance will make the game loses so much sell that it will ruin the series, right now the only proof have seen is the classic "a lot of people believe it so it must be true".

Edited June 21, 2015 by exizel

[RPGatWill]

It would certainly suggest that those players opposed (as in diametrically opposed; excluding those neutral/indifferent) to either the inclusion or exclusion of LGBT characters would be in the underwhelming minority, but it would also suggest that any revenue generated or lost on the basis of gameplay aspects involving inclusion would also be minimal. It would then come down to the effort and monetary cost of inclusion. Would IS simply make 4 out of a playable cast of 40 inclusive? Would IS double or triple the support dialogue to allow a majority/all combinations? Would any of the various routes IS could pursue generate enough revenue to cover any loss in sales from disgruntled fans/warrant the expense and effort? Awakening focused extensively on the inclusion of a more casual fanbase (that dwarfed the old school demogrpahic), and thanks to that change we are able to even have this discussion on inclusiveness in future Fire Emblem titles.

At the end of the day even the heterosexual pairings with the "best" or "cutest" supports are shunned in favor of eugenics. Ike has base 1 magic and a 20% growth rate in PoR and Soren has base 0 strength and a 5% growth rate, I'm sorry to say this but in terms of Waifu Emblem mechanics Soren!Ike-jr. would be grossly suboptimal.

^ this is something I can agree with. Cost no matter what people think is a huge factor in what and what isn't included in a game. If the Avatar is supposed to be able to romance every character to attempt and satisfy the majority of their new fanbase. The small amount of increased sales they might get (Because there's no evidence we have to prove it right now) may not cover the cost of adding those supports and the loss of sales caused by more closed minded people (because let's face it, there's always people like that.)

It's why i hope this time they focus on improving the supports. If the supports the player character has with the characters is a bit more interesting, we can then hopefully push for inclusion next time. Also, children nerfing and making who the parent is less important would be nice so people can choose their 'waifu' more easily without worrying about skills and such.

[FutureKnightX]

Are awakening's writers the same as radiant dawn's?

oh and I have seen people who think Gerick and Joshua may have end up together in their ending

What annoys me the most is that they know that people want gay relationship( when they talk about FE amie the fact they precise that you can do it with someone of your sex is one exemple of trying t please people who want gay relationship).

it reminds me of persona 4, when people looked in the game's data they found out they were a gay option at some point in the game development.

Oh god, Persona 4! That is a whole different discussion altogether! lol

Well, I'll keep my opinions on that short and just say they did a lot of things right but also a good deal of things wrong. It was a pretty good first try for a mainstream JRPG title, IMO. And if there was gonna be a gay option and they took it out, then that would indeed explain a lot about that game. It was both inclusive and homophobic at the same time. It was like they wanted the former and to avoid too much of a backlash, they decided to even things out with some good old-fashioned butt clenching (and that sure as hell annoyed me in the anime).

Anyways, yeah, you can be inclusive and as long as it's done well (no bearded dudes in makeup and dresses please...), then you're bound to only get complaints from people whose opinions I don't particularly care to hear about. Japan does have a long way to go, especially since western audiences (and especially the young people most likely to buy this stuff) feel this stuff is about as controversial as toast. In fact, more people over here will be irritated about the product being noninclusive or homophobic.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

it does make me wonder who was the homosexual option tho.

[Soapbar]

it does make me wonder who was the homosexual option tho.

Most likely Kanji or Yousuke

Edited June 21, 2015 by DUFF MCWHALEN

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Most likely Kanji or Yousuke

that would make sense, tho you could also make an argument for Teddie as well.

ah well, i can't image it being one of the other NPC males anyways.

[exizel]

It was yosuke, there were some unused voice clip for his social link where he says he likes the MC.

I guess the choice to hug him when he cries that only appear if you had chosen a certain choice earlier in his social link is a leftover of his romance path.

Edited June 21, 2015 by exizel

[TransHomura]

I should say as a trans girl playing as a boy is actually extremely painful for me. But as a lesbian being forced to be straight is painful. As for well rotten IS can't do romance well period but gay supports should be included anyways since I'm my case I assumed I was a straight boy until I read enough Yuri like Madoka made me a girl. Also as for trans the gender bnary is an anti sementic western construct like ancient Israel has 4 genders and India has many too

[szechuan]

As an LGTB member I feel so disappointed. I'm pan so I don't mind marrying girls in the game but I feel kinda sad that I can't marry men unless I pick F!Kamui (that I was going to play anyway). Nintendo should really take a step forward in these aspects...

[Asinine Knave]

I really hope we've moved on from using potential complaints/backlash as a reason to exclude same-sex S supports. Yes, close-minded intolerant people might boycott the game for including it, and you MIGHT get a small fraction of consumers who will not purchase the game because of it, but you'll be making up for that by attracting more LGBT consumers who maybe are new to the series and are now interested in it because of the new feature. And so what if people complain? People are complaining now because such a feature most likely ISN'T included. And we as consumers have a right to protest all we want. Nothing is ever going to change if we just sit around and accept it with open arms. I don't identify as LGBT, but I am a supporter and I believe that representation is incredibly important. People feel empowered when they see positive portrayals of their race, orientation, faith, or even their physical characteristics, hobbies or talents. When you don't see these highly important aspects of yourself being emphasized in media, it makes you feel invisible like you don't really exist or are not an ideal member of society. Diversity and variety in all things makes a world of difference for people.

A game with a roster of 50-60+ characters could stand to have a handful of LGBT ones and not detract from the gameplay nor the comfort of the typical hetero player. Sadly, marriage and the child units are returning, which makes same-sex romances extremely unlikely, assuming that S supports always result in marriage. I don't think anyone who advocated for gay supports expected same-sex marriage per se, they just wanted to see a heavily hinted at same-sex relationship between various characters. But since the marriage feature is back, I don't see how that could happen. I think the face rubbing feature is a half-hearted attempt at being inclusive of LGBT players by allowing them to be intimate with any character they choose regardless of sex, but that's still not sufficient since straight players also get that privilege and more.

[NekoKnight]

Just a question but, did the latest magazine scans deconfirm gay relationships or just imply it through marriage?

[Leif]

Just a question but, did the latest magazine scans deconfirm gay relationships or just imply it through marriage?

Yes, the magazines confirmed that S supports are limited to opposite sex pairings.

So aggravating... -_-

[Tryhard]

And so what if people complain? People are complaining now because such a feature most likely ISN'T included. And we as consumers have a right to protest all we want. Nothing is ever going to change if we just sit around and accept it with open arms.

True, but how exactly do you propose to change it?

I don't mean to sound pessimistic (though I am being), but it's highly unlikely that Intelligent Systems will listen to a handful of fans on an English fansite for their Fire Emblem series. If it ends it being in future games, it will probably not be because of this, and of their own accord. I've seen very few people complain about this outside of SF.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Tryhard

[NekoKnight]

Yes, the magazines confirmed that S supports are limited to opposite sex pairings.

So aggravating... -_-

Talk about a bait and switch with Fire Emblem Amie. "Oh sure, you can feel up your same-sex allies but no gay romance!"

Remember to say "no homo" before indulging in Fire Emblem Amie, guys. Wouldn't want to give people the wrong impression.

Edited June 22, 2015 by NekoKnight

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Talk about a bate and switch with Fire Emblem Amie. "Oh sure, you can feel up your same-sex allies but no gay romance!"

Remember to say "no homo" before indulging in Fire Emblem Amie, guys. Wouldn't want to give people the wrong impression.

is it safe to say now that every step FE takes to pleasing the otaku fan base, the further away the gay romance dream fades from existance?

forgive me for being blunt, but it feels like the two sides aren't even a part of the same coin, i'd rather not see the series go the otaku route, despite that i myself could fall under that.

could there be co-existance? well there's a chance for everything, no matter how small, unless its a fact.

will it happen soon? i don't think i can say it will.

Edited June 22, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai