Dragoncat Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Been a long time since I played PoR, but I just passed his memory scene in part 2 of RD's endgame. I'm confuzzled. I mean here's this guy who taught him everything he knows and he goes and kills him. Way to show appreciation for your teacher. I'm pretty sure if it hadn't happened though, Ike would've never gotten strong enough to kill Ashnard. So maybe BK/Zelgius saw the potential in him, knew Ashnard was up to no good and that was his own little way of making sure he got what was coming for him. He also says he wanted to face Greil in his prime, so...idk. It's a bit heartless but it's better than "oops, accidentally impaled my teacher, my bad!" It's weird how in PoR he's this big scary villain dude, while in RD he's more of an anti hero. Do you think this is writing flaws or do you think otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I personally think he slew Greil when he saw he no longer would take up his previous strength. When he saw his son had his similar style, he probably thought the motivation for revenge would hone Ike's skills and he kind of teaches him through their various encounters. Greil wasn't the Gawain he knew anymore so he took him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceBrand Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I personally think he slew Greil when he saw he no longer would take up his previous strength. When he saw his son had his similar style, he probably thought the motivation for revenge would hone Ike's skills and he kind of teaches him through their various encounters. Greil wasn't the Gawain he knew anymore so he took him out. So BK is Younger Toguro from Yu Yu Hakusho? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So BK is Younger Toguro from Yu Yu Hakusho? Actually I never saw that connection till you just mentioned it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishi Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Spoilers in title but I guess there's no other way to put it. But yeah I think he meant to I mean he wanted to prove his strength and experience since the days of training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 I personally think he slew Greil when he saw he no longer would take up his previous strength. When he saw his son had his similar style, he probably thought the motivation for revenge would hone Ike's skills and he kind of teaches him through their various encounters. Greil wasn't the Gawain he knew anymore so he took him out. So pretty much what I said. Still pretty mean when you think about it. Spoilers in title but I guess there's no other way to put it. Yeeeaaaahhh. By now though, it's not a big ginormous spoiler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Erm... Does it have to be that deep? Vader slew Obi-Wan even though Obi was his mentor and wasn't in his prime by far. Why does the Burger King need some other reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Erm... Does it have to be that deep? Vader slew Obi-Wan even though Obi was his mentor and wasn't in his prime by far. Why does the Burger King need some other reason? Because Darth Vader was never turned into an anti hero/something other than a villain? I probably have no right to comment on that, I don't know much about Star Wars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Probably, yeah. He said something about wanting to surpass his master iirc and by killing him he can do just that.I think he wanted an actual duel though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's weird how in PoR he's this big scary villain dude, while in RD he's more of an anti hero. Do you think this is writing flaws or do you think otherwise? I'm gonna be really finicky here, the BK/Zelgius is an anti-villain, not an anti-hero. An anti-hero is someone who does good things for not so good reasons, while an anti-villain is someone who does villainous things for idealistic reasons. Anyway, I think you're giving him too much credit. I'm fairly certain Zelg meant to kill Greil just to prove he could, and the whole shift in persona is them trying to resolve the disparity between Zelg and the BK and subsequently introducing some plot inconsistencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) It was probably an accident. Sure, the Black Knight wants his all-out battle with his teacher but he also had another mission that would get more complicated if Greil died right there. Although considering the king of strength he must have expected from Greil. maybe he simply couldn't resist the opportunity to have his duel right away when Greil went out of his way to confront. Either way, I doubt he literally wants Greil to die. It's just that a all-out battle with sharp swords is likely to end with someone suffering a deadly wound, so he has no illusions that this will be the consequence of such an encounter. Edited June 7, 2015 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I just don't think IS put much thought into his character. It doesn't make much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I personally think he slew Greil when he saw he no longer would take up his previous strength. When he saw his son had his similar style, he probably thought the motivation for revenge would hone Ike's skills and he kind of teaches him through their various encounters. Greil wasn't the Gawain he knew anymore so he took him out. He didn't know that Greil weakened himself. He took him out because he bested him at his own sword style I believe, and in some sword fighting styles the ultimate test of strength is to take out your former master. If he had a shot to take out his master and prove his mastery of the style then he'd take it, no questions asked, especially considering Zelgius is a little more merciless in nature than, say, Ike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 it was an accident, the BK's hand slipped and his sword poked through some of greil's ribs. quite unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) clearly we need path of radiance HD remaster to establish that BK clearly didn't mean to kill greil! retroactively, of course Edited June 7, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachblink Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Blame Weapon Triangle. Axe vs Sword has always been unfair. Well, from my point of view, he wanted a match with Gawain, his teacher, the swordsman, but he couldn't get to fight his true self, and there wasn't a reason to not let him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Because Darth Vader was never turned into an anti hero/something other than a villain? I probably have no right to comment on that, I don't know much about Star Wars... he was though; more than Zelgius actually since Zelgius died as someone on the other side and Darth Vader died as someone on the good side. I think Zelgius wanted to see Ike grow strong enough for a duel with him, not strong enough to kill Ashnard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 There was only one real lesson from the BK VS Greil fight: Swords > Axes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soro Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I felt like the Black Knight was surprised when he struck Greil. But judging how he treated Ike afterwards, I'm assuming he did mean to. Edited June 19, 2015 by Soro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yes because even though he fought Greil on his own agenda he was charged with getting Lehran's Medallion from Mist for Ashnard. So obviously at some point he would have had to confront Greil so kinda hit two birds with one stone surpass his master and remove him as an obstacle. Plus I think part of his character is being hellbent psychotic on surpassing Greil so much that he's willing to kill for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Orrrrrr, the Black Knight had to kill him because Greil knows who he really is. Greil: Your voice… I remember you. Greil: You think you can defeat me? The man who taught you how to fight? What a fool. Greil: Come on, boy! Come try me! He would probably singlehandedly ruin Lehran's plans. No way that he could let Greil get away with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Orrrrrr, the Black Knight had to kill him because Greil knows who he really is. He would probably singlehandedly ruin Lehran's plans. No way that he could let Greil get away with that. Good point. If Greil ever ran into Zelgius there'd be trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) The Black Knight certainly didn't know (at least until Ike told him, but that was much later) that Greil had crippled himself. And he was definitely surprised at how easily he ran Greil through: "Is that all there is? No challenge? No resistance?" But the Black Knight definitely didn't intend to hold back on his fight with Greil, even if it meant killing him. When Greil tossed Ragnell away, the Black Knight even asked him "Do you want to die?" Edited June 19, 2015 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Orrrrrr, the Black Knight had to kill him because Greil knows who he really is. He would probably singlehandedly ruin Lehran's plans. No way that he could let Greil get away with that. Actually, now that you bring it up that might be the simplest explanation for all of this. Too bad IS didn't expand too much on that idea there's certainly alot to work with there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busterman64 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) (Warning! Long post...and this info is off the top of my head, so sorry in advance if so info seems a little off) I'm kinda torn on this(after reading all the past posts). On one hand, Greil knew his true identity, and if that got out...it would be quite...devastating to his reputation to say the least. So killing him was pretty important. On the other hand, its possible that when he saw his master, they both wanted to "Clash"! :3. Even if getting the medallion was his mission, I doubt he cared that much during the battle. And since Greil wasn't as powerful as he was before, BK finished him off a lot easier than he thought (which was pretty counter intuitive since not only do so few people know of the medallion's existence, even less so know where or what it is. Killing the man off or giving him a grave wound is a bad idea if no one really knows where it is except him). Even without knowing during that fight he was a bit crippled, BK knew something was different about Greil. This probably left him unsatisfied, so he kept letting Ike live because Greil's true strength was gone for good even before killing him and Ike was the only other way he could feel as if he surpassed his teacher. ...Ok, that last part was kinda going off focus just a bit, but you get the point. Honestly, BK's motives are a alittle too unclear to be completely sure. He kinda...does things. His only goal that is clear is to surpass Greil, a chance that was lost as soon as Greil touched the medallion. Instead, he tried to use Ike to fulfill that goal in a different way(although, to be honest, I think Ike surpassed his father by the time BK and Ike fight for the last time ). But then again, maybe he wanted to have some self goal to achieve, even though he achieved so much as is! Before Ike, Greil was the only person to rival him, even with all the power he has( and also that OTHER thing about him that I won't say unless you fulfilled certain requirements on your second playthrough of FE:RD and fight him for the last time and see the secret flashback that should've been seen the first time or be a little less hard to get)! So both kinda seem one and the same. Killing Greil would mean keeping his true identity safe and it would mean he finally surpassed his teacher, killing two birds with one stone. ...wait he was following Sephiran(sorry if I spelled it wrong), right? Maybe that's why he doesn't have any real motives, he was following Sephiran more than anything else (well except Sanaki) and considering how he didn't really any goals in life (again, all thing considering...even before he became "The Great Zelgius") he wanted something else to strive for...I guess (I'm not 100% confident, but I'm pretty sure of it). ...ok, maybe I'm not so torn on this anymore...(and sorry if this sounded confusing...not the greatest at explaining, but I could be worse). :3 Edited January 8, 2016 by Busterman64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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