Survey SF SSB4 Ranking Experiment - List for Patch 1.14

[Tsunami922]

How does not having customs on affect the Miis? Are Miis banned altogether, are they stuck with 1111, or are they allowed to choose their specials?

[Jedi]

How does not having customs on affect the Miis? Are Miis banned altogether, are they stuck with 1111, or are they allowed to choose their specials?

Stuck with 1111 I think.

[euklyd]

The Mii debate is still going strong.

[Tamarsamar]

Ah, tournament drama, one of the telltale faults of humanity. Right alongside herd mentality.

I still think some of you in particular are overstating how good Sheik is (for starters, there is no way that 50/50 is her worst matchup). I know what a neutral game is, I know that Sheik can follow up forever for incremental amounts of damage and that's annoying and all, but can you guys re-read your posts and tell me honestly that you are not exaggerating how good Sheik is even a little?

For whatever it's worth, a good Rosalina and Luma player should beat a good Sheik player. Sheik is just fast and safe (appended from "just fast" with persuasion); Rosaluma is actually broken.

Side note: the poll for this thread explicitly said to put customs under consideration. Rosaluma does also get more from custom moves (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit) than Sheik does (Penetrating Needles, Gravity Grenade?).

Edited August 15, 2015 by Tamarsamar

[Dotty]

Side note: the poll for this thread explicitly said to put customs under consideration. Rosaluma does also get more from custom moves (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit) than Sheik does (Penetrating Needles, Gravity Grenade?).

Some people like the Pisces downB too.

And Penetrating Needles go through Luma, which takes away one of RosaLuma's biggest advantages in the Sheik matchup, I think? (I don't claim to know too much about either character.)

[Jedi]

Ah, tournament drama, one of the telltale faults of humanity. Right alongside herd mentality.I still think some of you in particular are overstating how good Sheik is (for starters, there is no way that 50/50 is her worst matchup). I know what a neutral game is, I know that Sheik can follow up forever for incremental amounts of damage and that's annoying and all, but can you guys re-read your posts and tell me honestly that you are not exaggerating how good Sheik is even a little?For whatever it's worth, a good Rosalina and Luma player should beat a good Sheik player. Sheik is just fast and safe (appended from "just fast" with persuasion); Rosaluma is actually broken.Side note: the poll for this thread explicitly said to put customs under consideration. Rosaluma does also get more from custom moves (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit) than Sheik does (Penetrating Needles, Gravity Grenade?).

Rosalina actually has bad matchups, mostly from rush down characters (who can keep the pressure up or seperate her from Luma see Mario and Dark Pit) and characters with good disjoint hits like those with good swords.

Sheik on the other hand.. yeah you beat the player using her more then actually beating Sheik, its not quite to the extreme as say Metaknight in Brawl. But she undeniably has pretty much no bad match ups period.

[Anacybele]

Ugh, fuck custom haters. I enjoy custom moves and do not think they should be excluded from the competitive scene. Several custom moves make certain characters more viable, so of course players will want to use them in competitive competitions.

Sure, unlocking them isn't quick and painless or anything. But they're not all that hard to unlock in the 3DS version, and then you can transfer your custom sets to the Wii U version. There's also the home button exploitation trick for Classic mode.

[Shin]

The main issues with customs is that it's difficult to have every set ready, and there are some customs, like Villager's, which are really annoying. I personally like customs, they add more variety to the game and some bad characters legitimately improve from them, but I understand why the tourney crowd aren't super fond of them.

Sheik on the other hand.. yeah you beat the player using her more then actually beating Sheik, its not quite to the extreme as say Metaknight in Brawl. But she undeniably has pretty much no bad match ups period.

I'm no tourney player so I have to ask, how varied are Sheik's match ups? I know she doesn't really have any awful ones, but are here positive ones just minor advantages (like 60:40 for most people) or would you say there are some super cray ones?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Shin

[Shin]

EDIT: Didn't press edit gg

Edited August 15, 2015 by Shin

[Anacybele]

Well, then Villager's annoying customs can be banned. People aren't strangers to banning certain things in Smash, Meta Knight was banned as a whole in Brawl in some places, for god's sake. And wasn't Game & Watch banned in doubles in Smash Wii U/3DS too?

Edited August 15, 2015 by Anacybele

[Dotty]

Well, then Villager's annoying customs can be banned.

The problem with this is that many people disagree on what customs are "broken", and would keep trying to campaign for them to be banned, using a custom Villager ban as a foothold.

Personally, I don't think custom Villager needs to be banned at all. It hasn't won any major tournaments; why ban something that clearly isn't Brawl!Meta Knight level? I honestly think people just aren't experienced enough against it. If customs were legal and everyone had played custom Villager enough, I doubt this'd be a problem. It's like people thinking that Little Mac was broken at release, but look where we are now after countless For Glory Macs...

If we're talking about banning things just because they're annoying, well, default Sonic is just as annoying to me as custom Villager.

And if you're really having trouble with custom Villager, you can always just hard counter it with Kirby's Meteor Stone.

[Comet]

Ugh, fuck custom haters. I enjoy custom moves and do not think they should be excluded from the competitive scene. Several custom moves make certain characters more viable, so of course players will want to use them in competitive competitions.

Sure, unlocking them isn't quick and painless or anything. But they're not all that hard to unlock in the 3DS version, and then you can transfer your custom sets to the Wii U version. There's also the home button exploitation trick for Classic mode.

and some are stupid

this is a huge understatement

^why i will never support customs in my life, since they were done in the worst way possible, good job sakurai.

I'm no tourney player so I have to ask, how varied are Sheik's match ups? I know she doesn't really have any awful ones, but are here positive ones just minor advantages (like 60:40 for most people) or would you say there are some super cray ones?

she definitely has some 7:3's like against ganon. all she needs is a grab, which is not hard to get, and he should be dead. from what i've noticed, most hover around 60:40. JIGGLYPUFF is 55:45 (with sheik winning) against her, which is cool.

tamar(ending with stuff) where is the beef

Edited August 15, 2015 by PichuMaster3000

[Comet]

EDIT: Didn't press edit gg

Edited August 15, 2015 by PichuMaster3000

[Jedi]

I'm no tourney player so I have to ask, how varied are Sheik's match ups? I know she doesn't really have any awful ones, but are here positive ones just minor advantages (like 60:40 for most people) or would you say there are some super cray ones?

She typically has the advantage against the bigger and heavier people, but as Comet said. She has some odd close matchups. The Puffballs in particular seem to give her some grief (I.E Meta and Jiggly. Dno about Kirby)

[Anacybele]

and some are stupid

this is a huge understatement

^why i will never support customs in my life, since they were done in the worst way possible, good job sakurai.

Uh, wow. So to you, customs can't EVER be done well? lol

Sorry to completely disagree with you, and always support customs in MY life. Indeed, good job, Sakurai! :D I won't enter any tournaments at all unless customs are allowed!

Edited August 15, 2015 by Anacybele

[Comet]

i meant that they were objectively badly implemented. any way of getting customs, aside from buying powersaves (i'm not paying $25 or whatever the price is for that), is almost always really time consuming. my personal experience with trying to get lucina's customs for giggles was me putting in around 20 hours to get all of her customs on the 3ds version and giving up. you also have to count on the set you want to use being on the system you're playing. at a recent tournament (i don't remember which), i know denti wanted to use a custom rosalina set which wasn't on the wii u's at that tournament. don't get me wrong, they're really fun, but i think their accessibility is so horrendous that they're beyond redemption, which is sad.

no customs also simplifies the ruleset a little more which is a small bonus that almost isn't worth mentioning

edit: ana please, don't "lol" me like that

Edited August 15, 2015 by PichuMaster3000

[Florete]

Ugh, fuck custom haters.

Ana, I like customs, too, but never again say, "Fuck [person/group of people]," especially when it may refer to someone on this forum.

i meant that they were objectively badly implemented.

While I think local tourneys can still use them, I agree with this and it's pretty much why I'm willing to accept them no longer being used.

-They shouldn't need to be unlocked at all, and they're a major pain to unlock. This is mostly a problem when someone wants to practice with specific ones at home and hasn't played a lot of single player modes.

-You can only make 10 custom sets. It would be much better if there was some way of choosing which individual specials you wanted from the character select screen.

-You can't use them online with anyone, so getting good, lagless practice with them can be hard for a lot of people.

-They can be allowed in tourney mode...but always linked with equipment, which I don't think anyone wants to use for very good reason.

Funny thing is, those 4 reasons are rarely actually used by customs detractors. They just don't like that some of them are "jank," despite that not even being a reason and the fact that some defaults are arguably "jank" as it is (like ZSS' up b and Luigi's down b).

Edited August 15, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[Anacybele]

I do agree that custom moves shouldn't have to be unlocked and shouldn't be linked to equipment. Custom moves actually have competitive use and don't add that many more variables while some equipment are crazy and there are so many different equipment items that a bajillion more variables are added. Sakurai, plz separate the two...

I'm still unwilling to accept custom moves not being allowed in tourneys though. I'd be unable to use Ike entirely and would have to use only Luigi the whole way, which I don't want. And even then, I want to try custom Luigis someday.

[euklyd]

Ah, tournament drama, one of the telltale faults of humanity. Right alongside herd mentality.

I still think some of you in particular are overstating how good Sheik is (for starters, there is no way that 50/50 is her worst matchup). I know what a neutral game is, I know that Sheik can follow up forever for incremental amounts of damage and that's annoying and all, but can you guys re-read your posts and tell me honestly that you are not exaggerating how good Sheik is even a little?

Looks like I'm not the one who needs to reread my post, here...

For whatever it's worth, a good Rosalina and Luma player should beat a good Sheik player. Sheik is just fast and safe (appended from "just fast" with persuasion); Rosaluma is actually broken.

Side note: the poll for this thread explicitly said to put customs under consideration. Rosaluma does also get more from custom moves (Luma Warp, Shooting Star Bit) than Sheik does (Penetrating Needles, Gravity Grenade?).

Dabuz himself is anti-customs and has said that they hurt Rosalina more than help, due to her foes in troublesome matchups gaining more advantage than she does.

To my knowledge literally no top players on either side say that Rosa beat Sheik anymore.

also

https://twitter.com/DabuzSensei/status/620091134103158784

Some people like the Pisces downB too.

And Penetrating Needles go through Luma, which takes away one of RosaLuma's biggest advantages in the Sheik matchup, I think? (I don't claim to know too much about either character.)

Pisces is nice but it removes her early offstage kill tool in exchange for what is essentially an offstage gimmick.

Yeah, penetrating needles go through Luma, and also charge faster, so they're a nice thing to have for that MU.

Rosa can't exactly gravitational pull them on reaction or anything, either.

[Jedi]

It took me a dedicated week to get all the customs onto my 3DS, that was way too much time spent on something that should have been unlocked from the get go.

Hold on lemme check how many smash runs I did for em..

Edited August 15, 2015 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Why did you unlock EVERY custom move? I would only go for the customs I want, ie the ones for the characters I actually use. It didn't take me long to get all of Ike's at all on the 3DS. On the Wii U though, there is no easy way, sadly. Which stinks.

[Jedi]

Why did you unlock EVERY custom move? I would only go for the customs I want, ie the ones for the characters I actually use. It didn't take me long to get all of Ike's at all on the 3DS. On the Wii U though, there is no easy way, sadly. Which stinks.

At the tournament I was going too, and will be going to again more when I get back up to WA. I was assigned to be the customs guy, because I volunteered due to the fact no one else did.

Smash Run amount btw, these are how many runs I did each. Whether I needed their full sets, or didn't get lucky with drops from other modes or other peoples random smash runs

Rosalina 18

Yoshi 16

Pit 16

Marth 14

Diddy 14

Samus 13

Ness 13

Luigi 12

Metaknight 11

Villager 11

Sonic 11

Ganondorf 11

Doc 11

Toon Link 10

Robin 10

Shulk 10

Fox 9

Zelda 8

Sheik 8

Ike 8

Wii Fit 8

Greninja 8

Kirby 7

Dedede 7

Megaman 7

Wario 7

Duck Hunt 7

Bowser Jr 7

Dark Pit 7

Link 6

Falcon 6

Zero Suit 6

Lucario 6

Pikachu 5

Olimar 5

Pac-Man 5

Jigglypuff 5

Falco 5

Game & Watch 5

Charizard 4

Little Mac 4

ROB 4

Lucina 4

Bowser 3

Mario 2

DK 2

Peach 2

And this isn't counting the random drops from other peoples smash runs or classic mode, this was purely to get customs right here

Edited August 15, 2015 by Jedi

[Anacybele]

Ah, I see. But still, getting every single existing custom is going to take some time on either version of the game which is just no. That I agree with.

[Comet]

Why did you unlock EVERY custom move? I would only go for the customs I want, ie the ones for the characters I actually use. It didn't take me long to get all of Ike's at all on the 3DS. On the Wii U though, there is no easy way, sadly. Which stinks.

in other words, your wii u wouldn't work for a real customs tournament

[Jedi]

in other words, your wii u wouldn't work for a real customs tournament

It would if there was someone who had all the sets on their 3DS, which is what I was tasked with. Back near the beginning of the year.