Optimizing Apotheosis Recommendations

[ziffie]

Hi all, I recently got Apotheosis and I'm the type of player who really wants to optimize their team and get the most out of it. I've lurked a ton on this site, reading up on pairings and suggestions (thank you czar_yoshi for the really helpful info), however there are a few fundamental things about pairings that I don't get. I'll mostly be referring to this post:

Anyway, when building your team the main thing to keep in mind is making sure the pairup boosts of your 2nd Gen pairs match their partner's main attacking stat, making sure every pair has at least one Galeforce/Proc unit, and making sure you have at least one pair with 75+ Spd. If you have all that, you can clear Apo pretty reliably as long as you make all the right ingame preparations beforehand (forge your weapons, use tonics etc). Male unit's physical/magical alignment tends to matter more than female's because all girls can access Bride, which attacks physically but gives +Mag/Spd. That said, most units depend on their parents and can actually go either way (sometimes simultaneously like Nah and Gerome).

Lucina: Physical (Olivia/Avatar), Magical (Maribelle/Sumia/Avatar)

Kjelle: Both (good Bride candidate)

Cynthia: Always Magical

Severa: Physical (Lon'qu/Stahl), Magical (Ricken), Both (Virion)

Nah: Physical (Vaike/Gregor/Stahl), Magical (Virion), Both (Henry)

Noire: Both (good Bride candidate)

Owain: Always Magical

Laurent: Always Magical

Brady: Always Magical

Yarne: Always Physical

Inigo: Physical (Chrom/Stahl), Magical (Ricken/Libra)

Gerome: Physical (Vaike/Gregor/Stahl), Both (Henry)

So, when putting a team together, Lucina gets first priority because she has DS+ which allows her to either support VV or safely fight more dangerous things. Her preferences are generally Avatar-M > Morgan-M > Laurent > Libra!Owain > everyone else, though she can work well with anyone and generally wind up as part of your best pair.

Second priority goes to Morgan. Morgan-M will prefer Lucina best with everyone else mostly equal (keep in mind Nah means no double Galeforce), Magical Morgan-F is generally Owain/Brady >Magical Inigo, Physical is Physical Inigo >Yarne/Gerome. I tend to prefer Owain to Brady, but the two are pretty much equal.

Third priority goes to Nah because she has no Galeforce and must marry a boy with Galeforce to be useful. Physical Nah is locked to Inigo unless Physical Morgan-M wants her, Magical Nah can go to any of the Galeboys.

Fourth priority goes to Physical Severa because her high Spd, natural Vengeance, loads of Breakers and inclination toward Physical give her a very large niche-filling potential. Namely, Lon'qu/Virion!Severa, paired with a Berserker and using All+2 can hit 75 Spd (the threshold to double every enemy in the game) as a Wyvern Lord, and are the only unit suited to do so besides Morgan. Gerome and Yarne are her best candidates, though Physical Inigo can work as well.

Everyone else can then get matched up however you like, there should be a magical Galeboy or two, Cynthia, Kjelle, Noire, possibly Laurent and a Galeforceless Berserker left.

Passing skills: Always Galeforce, if that's missing then DS+ is fine. Panne passes Str+2 or Swordbreaker unless marrying Fred in which case it doesn't matter. Donnel passes Underdog, for male-only skills Axefaire is good for combat and Despoil is nice for training.

End classes: Sage and Dark Flier are good for magical. For Physical, Assassins are weak but give +Str/Skl/Spd and have very high Skl, Snipers can attack at 3-range, give +Str/Skl and have very high Skl, Paladins are high-Mov and give +Str/Skl/Spd/Def, Berserkers are very strong/fast and give a ton of +Str/Spd but have terrible Hit, Warriors are very strong and give +Str/Def, Wyvern Lords are slow but have high Str/Mov and give +Str/Def, and Dread Fighters look cool. Brides attack physically but give magical pairup boosts.

Firstly, what makes one child a better support for someone than another child? And how do you decide which parent is better for which kid? Also what are good class pairings for physically oriented pairs? I know those pairs are meant to reach certain stat thresholds, but it seems overwhelming since there are so many different ways to pair up (and also what are those thresholds? I know some basic things like 220 Hit and 69/75 speed to double everything but I'm not really sure about Def/Res and how those calculations are made)

Also I've started a draft of some children, but I'm not sure who they should pair with nor what they should class into.

Sumia!Lucina X MaMu

Lucina!Morgan X Ricken!Owain

Virion!Severa X Vaike!Gerome (Physical)

Stahl!Inigo X Henry!Nah (Physical)

Donnel!Kjelle

Gaius!Noire

Gregor!Yarne

Lon'qu!Laurent

Libra!Brady

Chrom!Cynthia

Thanks for the help!

[Alastor15243]

This should really go in the pairing thread, it's meant for this sort of stuff. But while I'm here...

First, are you doing a challenge run, or no-holds-barred? No-holds-barred apotheosis is surprisingly easy, especially if you really really prepare like most people like to, so be warned.

Secondly, Czar's post is actually incorrect in at least one area that I saw: Sumia!Lucina and Chrom!Cynthia are totally capable of going physical, especially if they're snipers. Sumia!Lucina is bar none the best sniper in the entire game, especially since she can pair up with a berserker, reach 75 speed exactly, and still have 100% DS thanks to DS+. Oh, and let's not forget Aether.

Third, what are your asset and flaw? If you're stronger at magic than physical attacks, then you might want to marry Cynthia to leave Lucina free to use that build I just mentioned, marrying a berserker hard support with a hit+20 skill. This allows Cynthia to have a strong magical husband, and grandmaster is a nice option for your avatar if you want to get Cynthia to 75 speed as a dark flier. It doesn't matter which one you marry when it comes to Morgan, she'll be identical. But it's best that Cynthia be the one to go the magical route because the physical sniper route normally has a lower skill total, and thus is more in need of Lucina's DS+.

Fourth, Gregor!Yarne isn't the best option for him unless you're marrying him. He wants somebody with hit+20, so Stahl or Virion pretty much. Virion also conveniently is great breeding material if you want to make a speed demon of a Morgan. Vaike!Gerome also isn't that great because his mods are all he's really got going for him, Gerome doesn't have any accuracy boosting skill for his heavy-hitting physical classes. He's best off with Virion, Stahl, or my favorite, Henry, who not only gives him a hit boosting skill in Anathema, but also gives him Berserker, the best hard support class in the game.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Alastor15243

[astrophys]

The topic creator is quoting a post that is more than a year old… almost 15 months old, actually.

The thought and theory of the game keeps on evolving, so some of these arguments listed in Czar's older post would be out of date, even relative to his own current positions.

[ziffie]

Thanks for the advice, do you recommend any good places to read for up to date suggestions? It's kind of hard sifting through 200+ pages of the pairing thread, I already went through the first third when I stumbled on that post

[astrophys]

Bring up the discussion on the active page (you can skip to the end) and you'll get plenty of up to date thinking on it, including from Czar himself.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Secondly, Czar's post is actually incorrect in at least one area that I saw

Given the context of that post I think it's pretty amazing that it's as relevant as it is (though that's far from the only thing wrong with it).

Thanks for the advice, do you recommend any good places to read for up to date suggestions? It's kind of hard sifting through 200+ pages of the pairing thread, I already went through the first third when I stumbled on that post

Don't read, ask. All my advice is given on a per-person basis and usually only general if I say it is.

That said, the Pairing Thread is definitely the best place to ask.

[MelonGx]

Lucina: Her Dual Strike+ generates a VVDS+ tank strategy - 6-hit KO everything before enemy's counter-attack without any failure by her husband's Vantage + Vengeance & her 100% Dual Strike from Dual Strike+.

This is Lucina & Chrom exclusive.

Besides, Lucina has the most frontside power when equipping Aether + Luna, on both magic classes and Sniper.

She needs a mother who has Galeforce.

Owain: Usually to be a magical attacker. Needs a father who has Luna / Vengeance.

Inigo: An attacker. His physical or magical type depends on father. Needs Luna / Vengeance too.

Brady: A magical attacker. He doesn't need any skill from father but if giving a hi-Spd mod + Deliverer, his Dark Knight will be more practical than Sage.

Kjelle: Usually to be a physical attacker. She requires either Donnel or Gaius for Galeforce. Gaius gives hi-Spd mod. Donnel gives more classes.

Cynthia: Usually to be a magical attacker. If her father is Chrom, she can also be a Sniper. (If pairing with a Skl+7 Assassin (= 5 mod + Skl+2 skill), she can reach 100% Dual Strike without Dual Strike+ & Spd.75 & having Aether power)

Severa: An attacker. Her final class depends on her father. Luna father is not an necessary because she has native Vengeance.

Gerome: A dual striker. He has native Sage but tends to be a physical supporter. Recommending throwing a Berserker or Sniper father to him to maximize his firepower but to be aware his poor accuracy.

Yarne: A physical dual striker. He doesn't need any skill but if giving him a Sniper + hi-Skl mod, he can be used for practical 100% DS usages without Dual Strike+.

Laurent: He tends to be a tank (Vantage + Vengeance) rather than a magical dual striker. But Vantage + Vengeance tank requires Dual Strike+ to ensure zero failure from bad luck.

Noire: An attacker. She requires either Gaius or Donnel for Galeforce. Donnel gives Armsthrift but slightly bad mod. Gaius gives no Armsthrift but good classes and mods. Only MaMU gives Tomefaire and up to +8 Mag but Tharja isn't the top tier for MaMU.

Nah: A dual striker. She has native Sage but Vaike, Frederick, Kellam, Stahl gives her physical supporter access. Only MaMU gives her attacker access (Galeforce + proc) but Nowi is also not a top tier for MaMU.

Edited June 24, 2015 by MelonGx