Psyruby Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Sounds interesting, though eh. I suppose there are more hardworking people than I am, no matter how much stuff I do (which really isn't that much anyway) What I did was very simple, though the flaw is very obvious. I have Rating (Sum of all stats) and E Rating (Sum of HP + SPD + Def + Strength/Magic, whichever is higher or the class is locked into). The problem is that, sometimes HP contributes too much, other times, HP contributes too little For example, the different in rating between 25 and 35 HP and 50 and 60 HP is the same, but 10HP is obviously more important for the 25 HP unit, but they have the same "weighting" in the rating. What can I say though... Additionally, I suppose it makes sense of sorts, but some information, like say...averages... The more data I have, the less "reliable" the information becomes. I don't even know if I can trust my averages now, how ironic The Magic classes as a whole kind of got gimped, since off the top of my head, they either have crap HP/DEF or crap SPD For a certain definition anyway. Which is one of the reasons why Basara>Exorcist. (Statistically speaking anyway..in practice it may not be) One last thing is that, as it is "rather obvious" and what not, there is a "huge amount" of debate over which classes people should go to. In the end, for PVP, with maxed Eternal Seals, it is theoretically just going to be a matter of caps, rather than growths and promotion bonuses (capping magic for the no growth characters seem to be impossible though, but it's not really that big of a deal) Averages are more important for PVE I guess.....but eh. (Since you can just buy Parallel seals from other castles at any time, I'm pretty sure of that) I understand. If you want to not have HP contribute as much in "total" environment, you can just halve their HP. That way the scale goes from 22.5 to 35. Which is pretty dang close to the actual range of most stats. Magic classes are hard to judge even from the data cause I can explain what they did, and it is strange. Basically, Defense's average is 30~, Resistance's average is 31~(which is odd that Res is higher overall for FE), but the standard deviation is much higher for Defense than Resistance. So while Defense has a range of 40-25, Res is only 35-25, and packed more closely to the average. Which means that having high Attack Power in Magic is more valuable for being consistent in the damage it does. They also accounted for the 1-2 range for Mages with their stats, which is why they have sucky Def and HP or Speed in some cases. I also have a growth chart and calculations for in game characters, but they aren't ranked cause that isn't important as much(tho I will eventually rank characters based on important factors). Edited July 23, 2015 by Psyruby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinian Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I understand. If you want to not have HP contribute as much in "total" environment, you can just halve their HP. That way the scale goes from 22.5 to 35. Which is pretty dang close to the actual range of most stats. Magic classes are hard to judge even from the data cause I can explain what they did, and it is strange. Basically, Defense's average is 30~, Resistance's average is 31~(which is odd that Res is higher overall for FE), but the standard deviation is much higher for Defense than Resistance. So while Defense has a range of 40-25, Res is only 35-25, and packed more closely to the average. Which means that having high Attack Power in Magic is more valuable for being consistent in the damage it does. They also accounted for the 1-2 range for Mages with their stats, which is why they have sucky Def and HP or Speed in some cases. I also have a growth chart and calculations for in game characters, but they aren't ranked cause that isn't important as much(tho I will eventually rank characters based on important factors). Did you take the inherent bonuses of the S rank classes into account? The +Hit and +Avo bonuses in particular increase the value of some of them, if only marginally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyruby Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Did you take the inherent bonuses of the S rank classes into account? The +Hit and +Avo bonuses in particular increase the value of some of them, if only marginally. I actually did. It was fairly simple to do with how I treated weapons(as I incorporated those bonuses into their weapon stat. The only character who didn't get a bonus was the Maid/Butler... cause they don't have inherent bonuses... for some reason.) Edited July 23, 2015 by Psyruby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinian Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I actually did. It was fairly simple to do with how I treated weapons(as I incorporated those bonuses into their weapon stat. The only character who didn't get a bonus was the Maid/Butler... cause they don't have inherent bonuses... for some reason.) You'd have to modify that if you ever plan to include the DLC classes in your spreadsheet, since Lodestar and Witch also get S ranks but have different inherent bonuses. Also the beast classes, but I thought you would've already done those...hmm Edited July 23, 2015 by Bovinian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luankachu Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I have a question about the classes names. In TSubaki and Luna's C-support, it is said that the Tenma, which Hoshidans mount, are different from Pegasus, and Falcons are a Nohrian mount. Why are the Tenma Musha and SeiTenma Musha classes called "Pegasus" and "Falcon" Warriors, respectively? Edited July 23, 2015 by Luankachu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyruby Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I did do those, and for the sake of convince, I said all the bonuses were equal to each other. I know avoid is better than Critical Evade, but with how weapon rank works, at worst Holy Lancer is being overvalued slightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure why you'd ever promote a Pegasus Warrior to Golden Kite without a lot of weapon level grinding, but it seems plenty usable as a promotion from Archer for the extra movement and to get full use out of the advantage over other fliers with the already-high bow weapon level. Edited July 23, 2015 by Othin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I have a question about the classes names. In TSubaki and Luna's C-support, it is said that the Tenma, which Hoshidans mount, are different from Pegasus, and Falcons are a Nohrian mount. Why are the Tenma Musha and SeiTenma Musha classes called "Pegasus" and "Falcon" Warriors, respectively? Tenma literally means "flying horse" and historically it has been translated as "Pegasus". See Radiant Dawn. Same with Sei-Tenma being translated as Falcon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyruby Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Top kek. I just added Lancer, Witch, and Ballistician to my excel sheet and class ranked them. Even tho Lancer only has a B rank in lances and extremely average stats, the ranking system deems it a better unit than Golden Kites. So if it was every possible to reclass a unit to lancer, it would be more valuable than Golden Kite by end game.EDIT: AWWWWW, I fixed a small mistake(Lancer has 5 movement not 6), and now it is a tiny bit worse than Golden Kite. D: D: D: Edited July 24, 2015 by Psyruby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sun Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I've been wondering about this for a while; does anybody happen to know what the calculations are for weapon triangle (dis)advantages (and for each rank), combat stats (attack, hit, critical, avoid, and rating), combat forecast, effective damage, weapon rank bonuses, and support level bonuses? I want to start preparing my characters early for a lot of things (mainly StreetPass battles and Wi-Fi battles) by the time the game is released out here in the United States of America. I don't really need growth rates and level-up mechanics since I plan on maxing out my characters through whatever means available/necessary (though it would be nice if someone knew the latter as well). This thread is unrelated to the other one I have up and will be closed once I determine I have a comprehensive, concrete answer. EDIT: I almost forgot to ask about forging, like what weapons can you forge (and what stats), what are the limits, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaGalaxy Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I've been wondering about this for a while; does anybody happen to know what the calculations are for weapon triangle (dis)advantages (and for each rank), combat stats (attack, hit, critical, avoid, and rating), combat forecast, effective damage, weapon rank bonuses, and support level bonuses? I want to start preparing my characters early for a lot of things (mainly StreetPass battles and Wi-Fi battles) by the time the game is released out here in the United States of America. I don't really need growth rates and level-up mechanics since I plan on maxing out my characters through whatever means available/necessary (though it would be nice if someone knew the latter as well). This thread is unrelated to the other one I have up and will be closed once I determine I have a comprehensive, concrete answer. EDIT: I almost forgot to ask about forging, like what weapons can you forge (and what stats), what are the limits, etc. Isn't this a bit of a wrong thread? Weapon Triangle, Weapon Rank is probably similar or some variant of Awakening's, adjusted for the S Rank. I think some people were calculating the numbers some time ago for Hit, Avoid, etc What I can tell is that it appears to be consistent that C/B Rank: +1 Damage A Rank: +2 Damage S Rank: +3 Damage (Individually, they don't stack on top of each other) Effective Damage should still be just 3x Weapon Might, at the very least, I haven't seen any hard information that disproves that...not that I've been looking very hard I suppose I should and could try searching for Weapon Triangle things or something...... There does not appear to be hard limits on forging (there appear to be chapter based limits, but I don't think there are any once the forge is maxed out). However it's probably ludicrously unfeasible to forge the higher tier weapons, gold aside, as you need exponentially more weapons. To Forge a (X+1) version of the weapon, you need a (X) version of the weapon I.E. Silver Sword +1 requires 2x Silver Sword, Silver Sword +2 requires 4x Silver Sword (or rather, two Silver Sword +1), Silver Sword +3 requires 8x Silver Sword, etc. The bonuses appear to be quite minor, like, +1 MT +2 Hit or something? Not entirely a big deal and pretty steep in price. If you have spare Irons, Steels lying around I suppose you might have nothing better to do with them. For supports, I think Vincent has already a list of the bonuses on the site, though who knows what actually happens Edited July 24, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrophys Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hoshido CH. 27 boss (Normal, I believe) https://youtu.be/r7ATzqtiLMU?t=15m8s 28 Str 21 Might ? from S-rank Axes 51 Atk Therefore, S-rank axes are worth +2 damage. That makes sense, as in Awakening it was +1 Atk and +10 Hit at A-rank for axes…. So basically, this means that classes with S-rank Axes can get +1 Attack more than classes with A-rank axes even independently than the base STR stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaGalaxy Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hmm, I could have sworn that..but oh well, In any case, I do kind of "notice" we don't have a thread for this anywhere near the first page or something, hmm, oh dear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sun Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I think some people were calculating the numbers some time ago for Hit, Avoid, etc There does not appear to be hard limits on forging (there appear to be chapter based limits, but I don't think there are any once the forge is maxed out). However it's probably ludicrously unfeasible to forge the higher tier weapons, gold aside, as you need exponentially more weapons. To Forge a (X+1) version of the weapon, you need a (X) version of the weapon I.E. Silver Sword +1 requires 2x Silver Sword, Silver Sword +2 requires 4x Silver Sword (or rather, two Silver Sword +1), Silver Sword +3 requires 8x Silver Sword, etc. For supports, I think Vincent has already a list of the bonuses on the site, though who knows what actually happens I actually figured out the base might, hit, and avoid stats a little while ago (without the weapon rank bonuses themselves of course) and they function the same as in Awakening. Critical Rate is the only one I need since I heard that it's been changed. So there is absolutely no limit as to how many times you can forge something? That actually worries me to some degree. Now that there is Duelist Museum and Treasure of the Ruins, weapon supply and funds should not be a problem. And if might and hit are the only stats that can be forged (and only a small increase per upgrade), then it seems to me that forging is not really viable. Not only is it more expensive and somewhat difficult to do, the stat upgrades don't really compensate for it. For the support bonuses, I actually meant when the character has the hit, avoid, critical, and critical avoid (the bonuses you got just for standing next to someone). Those bonuses scale with higher support ranks, and I know what the pair-up bonuses are; I just do not know about those ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Crit seems to just have been changed from Skl/2 to (Skl/2)-2 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sun Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Crit seems to just have been changed from Skl/2 to (Skl/2)-2 now. Ah, so it's just a slight nerf (well, slight nerf is subjective given the lower stat caps overall). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyruby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Ah, so it's just a slight nerf (well, slight nerf is subjective given the lower stat caps overall). TBH, it was buffed overall. instead of needing 25+ Crit from other sources for you to start Criting, you only need 17+ Crit from other sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sun Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 TBH, it was buffed overall. instead of needing 25+ Crit from other sources for you to start Criting, you only need 17+ Crit from other sources. I figured that critical hits would be happening less often thanks to the lower skill cap and lower critical rates on some of the weapons themselves, not to mention the additional −2 after the calculation is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyruby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I figured that critical hits would be happening less often thanks to the lower skill cap and lower critical rates on some of the weapons themselves, not to mention the additional −2 after the calculation is made. tbh... no, they should happen more often, cause Luck is 15 less on average. The higher stats become, the less likely crits happen. Even the new killing edges with 25 Crit, crit more often than Awakening's killing edges just cause Luck was reduced. The reason why is that Skl affects crit by 1/2, but Luck reduces it by ONE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sun Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) tbh... no, they should happen more often, cause Luck is 15 less on average. The higher stats become, the less likely crits happen. Even the new killing edges with 25 Crit, crit more often than Awakening's killing edges just cause Luck was reduced. The reason why is that Skl affects crit by 1/2, but Luck reduces it by ONE. Ah, I see. Also, I think I found out some of the weapon rank bonuses. The C-A for some weapons appear to be about the same as they were in Awakening. Running off of some knowledge and assumptions, this is how the weapon ranks bonuses are: Swords and Kunai: C=Atk+1, B=Atk+2, A=Atk+3, S=Atk+3 & Hit+5 Lances, Bows, and Tomes: C=Atk+1, B=Atk+1 & Hit+5, A=Atk+2 & Hit+5, S=Atk+3 & Hit+5 Stones: A=Atk+2 & Hit+5 (stones are probably the same as lances, bows, and tomes) Axes: C=Hit+5, B=Hit+10, A=Atk+1 & Hit+10, S=Atk+2 & Hit+10 Staves: ?? The triangle advantage and disadvantage seems to be the same for E-B rank as well. Edited July 27, 2015 by BlueSunStudios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Alchemist Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 How is the Puppet Master class? It seems better for Kaze in Nohr because of higher Str and Bows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyruby Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 How is the Puppet Master class? It seems better for Kaze in Nohr because of higher Str and Bows. It's really depends on what you want. Puppet Master is a really sturdy class with slightly higher movement, but Elite Ninja has S rank Kunai and can double a lot more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gayserbeam Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 How is the Puppet Master class? It seems better for Kaze in Nohr because of higher Str and Bows. As a Ninja, Kaze will have 85% Speed growth. He'll probably hit about 24 or 25 before promoting. If you make him a puppeteer, you'll cap his Speed at 33 at around level 16. You can make much better use of his massive speed growth and cap as an Elite Ninja. ...then again, Puppeteer is a balanced class with one awesome ability. You could give it to his kid, wife, or buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 As a Ninja, Kaze will have 85% Speed growth. He'll probably hit about 24 or 25 before promoting. If you make him a puppeteer, you'll cap his Speed at 33 at around level 16. You can make much better use of his massive speed growth and cap as an Elite Ninja. ...then again, Puppeteer is a balanced class with one awesome ability. You could give it to his kid, wife, or buddy. Level 16 is pretty high; I don't think lack of ability to grow a stat past that is too big of a concern. In any case, Elite Ninja has a Speed cap 5 points higher than Puppeteer, but its base Speed is 4 points higher and its growth is 10 points higher. So Kaze will cap his Speed at least as fast as an Elite Ninja as he will as a Puppeteer, and once he does he'll have more of his class growths allocated to the capped stat and wasted as a result. So rate of capping Speed is actually an advantage for Puppeteer, not Elite Ninja, although it's a small one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gayserbeam Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Level 16 is pretty high; I don't think lack of ability to grow a stat past that is too big of a concern. In any case, Elite Ninja has a Speed cap 5 points higher than Puppeteer, but its base Speed is 4 points higher and its growth is 10 points higher. So Kaze will cap his Speed at least as fast as an Elite Ninja as he will as a Puppeteer, and once he does he'll have more of his class growths allocated to the capped stat and wasted as a result. So rate of capping Speed is actually an advantage for Puppeteer, not Elite Ninja, although it's a small one. Touché.To be fair to Elite Ninja, though, all Puppeteer gives over Elite Ninja is 5% more growth in HP, STR and LUK. Everything else is better as an Elite Ninja. While the class has better base DEF and RES, it doesn't have better growths in those stats, so he'll still be squishy. All he really gets out of it is a bow rank (which he wouldn't use in any other class he has naturally) and Copycat Puppet (which he only needs to be in the class for two levels to have). Meanwhile, Elite Ninja gives him swords, Lethality and Kunaifaire, which he can all use effectively. So I still say Elite Ninja, or at least Level 1-15 Elite Ninja Level 16-17 Puppeteer Level 18-20 Whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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