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Does the amount of fanservice bother you?


Chiki
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  1. 1. Does it bother you?



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I'm not gonna judge people for being excited about it or liking it! It's something that I don't like, full stop.

Lilith might work, but THIS is what full fanservice JUST FOR ME would look like:

[spoiler=Hoshido side, will do Nohr on request]Joker: Kamui, come quickly! An enemy approaches the castle!

Kamui: Fine, fine. Sorry, Ebony, your belly rub's gonna have to wait.

Ebony: MEOOW!

(outside)

Kamui: Huh, I'm the first one here. Wonder where everyone else is?

Ryoma: What are your orders?

Kamui: Erm. . .what's with the tall white hat?

Ryoma: I was supposed to cook dinner tonight.

Hinoka: Ready!

Kamui: Hinoka, an apron won't protect you from arrows!

Hinoka: I came directly from the shop! I even locked it up, like you requested!

Takumi: *yawns*

Kamui: . . .night clothes? And a nighty-cap?

Takumi: You woke me up from a perfectly good nap!

Suzukaze: Reporting.

Felicia: I made it~!

Kamui: The two of you are soaking wet! And what is up with that cloth over your head, Suzukaze?

Felicia: Ah, well. . .

Suzukaze: ....

Kamui: Do you really have to give me that look?

Felicia: You said that we were both ill-fitted for the kitchen, so. . .

Suzukaze: You ordered us to do everyone's laundry instead.

Kamui: Oh, uh, right. Thanks.

Silas: Am I late?

Kamui: Silas, you're covered head to toe in dirt! And a garden hoe is not a lance!

Silas: But I prepared the vegetable gardens, just like you asked!

Sakura: Let's go~!

Nishiki: ....

Suzukaze: A giant pink fluffy bow? On BOTH of you?

Kamui: Oh dear. . .

Harrr. Fair enough. Maybe there is a support with FULL KITTEN ACTION. Lets hope so anyway. (ill root for it) Im pro-fanservice for everyone ever. So if cute critters count, bring em on.

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I think it can be challenging to see what really suckers female players in (otome elements and pretty boys with great backstories) and what suckers in male audiences when male audiences are the ones that have been catered to for so long. Or from a male viewpoint.

I suppose that is right, I have seen a lot more female players around since Awakening dropped.

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It used to bother me because I was concerned my favorite series was being taken away from me, filled with all sorts of unrelated, frivolous additions that don't belong in these kinds of games. But it seems like IntSys really was paying attention after all, so I stopped worrying and loved the pandering.

SMTxFE is a whole 'nother story and I'll never ever forgive Atlus for what they've done.

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All parts to do with characterisation fall under the narrative and writing. This is just categorically wrong.

I don't think it's categorically wrong at all. When people in the future examine what they like and don't like about the characters, I'm willing to guess the facerubbing dialogue will not factor in except as trivia when something really weird is said.

Yeah no, sorry, I simply cannot agree. I can't engage my suspension of disbelief when the game is so absoloutely blatant about it's intentions.

I don't see why it being blatant matters but I can see discussing this would be a waste of time.

Again, I never said this. I'm pointing out that currently, people are able to pick out and point to the characters they find very appealing based on an image and bio, to the point where they're already playing matchmaker, looking forward to fondling them or getting their confession dialogue, w/e. Whilst I can certainly say that there are character designs that I've found appealing in the history of the franchise, this kind of enthusiasm for characters one doesn't know yet is primarily rooted in the fact that people already know what to expect, or they don't really care and are in it for aesthetics alone.

I didn't decide I liked Duessel as character when I first saw him. I decided that after I observed his own actions and behaviour in rebellion of Grado as a whole as indicative of his strong sense of morality, which won over his sense of duty. I didn't decide I liked Jill as a character when I first saw her. I decided that after I saw her come to terms with the lies she'd been brought up to believe, and grow as a person into an open minded young woman. But you get the point. Not everyone is comparable to that, but I'd rather more examples of these than what we're getting now.

No, but you did say that the characters of FE13 could be easily summarized by a bio and an image, implying this was not true or was less true than previous games.

Anyway I get your point, but I think you're ignoring the marriage factor. If Awakening lacked marriage but still had the same character bios and images, I don't think there would be as much matchmaking and enthusiasm going on. I think the reverse is also true, at least of the post FE5 games. After all, at least in my experience, part of the enthusiasm behind certain units is he thought of being able to marry them.

And your point about knowing what to expect, isn't that the point of a bio? You want readers to have an idea of what kind of character they'll be. They could intentionally limit the bios on the official site for FE13 & 14 to be short long like the in-game character bios of past FE games, but there's no need to. If Dussell's bio was twice as long, they'd likely mention him possessing high morals as that's one of his most prominent character traits. Likewise, if Maribelle was in an older FE game we probably would have to actually observe her in-game to see that she's "cold to strangers, particularly to commoners, but warms up to them quickly", which is the second of her 3 sentences in her bio.

(all the FE games with NA sites link to the FE:A site, so I have no way of comparing Awakening's bios to 8-10 sadly)

And just because you can make expectations about a character from their bio doesn't prevent them from being able to have the character development or backstory that you mentioned for Dussell and Jill. My point is there's nothing wrong with liking a character off of design and their bio, and it's not as if these feelings are set in-stone. I have a number of characters who I'm excited to try in Fates, but those feelings are all tentative.

The majority of them definitely don't feel like people to me, so I don't feel like "caricature" is an inappropriate term to use.

I think majority is an overstatement, and I also don't think most of them quite reach the level of being caricatures, but I will say that compared to past FE games there is a higher concentration of unique personality traits. But that's just my opinion.

I also didn't say caricatures was inappropriate to use, I said "exaggerated caricatures" was. Caricatures already means " ludicrously exaggerating the peculiarities or defects of persons or things", so that calling them exaggerated caricatures is basically putting them on the level of a side character in a cartoon who only exists to express one emotion. That's a description much more adept for Validar than say Noire, Lon'qu, Nah or even Tharja.

Edited by BlueL
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I don't think it's categorically wrong at all. When people in the future examine what they like and don't like about the characters, I'm willing to guess the facerubbing dialogue will not factor in except as trivia when something really weird is said.

Go read the thread on this forum with videos and dialogue and the responses in it. Look around on the internet in general. It is a significant draw.

I don't see why it being blatant matters but I can see discussing this would be a waste of time.

Because blatant fanservice is a reminder that "oh right this character is made to cater to players", which as a whole makes it harder to maintain a suspension of disbelief throughout.

No, but you did say that the characters of FE13 could be easily summarized by a bio and an image, implying this was not true or was less true than previous games.

I did not imply that whatsoever. What I said was "that are so easily summed up in an image and description that people already know who they want to fuck and fondle before they even play the damn game", and you are trying to ignore the second half of this statement. This kind of attitude towards members of the cast was nowhere near as apparent, if apparent at all in earlier titles. That is the contrast, not the "bio and image" thing.

Anyway I get your point, but I think you're ignoring the marriage factor. If Awakening lacked marriage but still had the same character bios and images, I don't think there would be as much matchmaking and enthusiasm going on. I think the reverse is also true, at least of the post FE5 games. After all, at least in my experience, part of the enthusiasm behind certain units is he thought of being able to marry them.

This is a pretty bizzare defence. Obviously, if a mechanic to marry characters wasn't present, then people would not be compelled to discuss it. This is like saying that if there wasn't a Warp staff then people wouldn't talk about Warpskipping. It's a complete distraction from the concern at hand. Additionally, there's never been anywhere near the same level of interest on that front in a previous game in the series with marriage (FE4) or games with shipping (FE7, FE8). It wasn't a focus, that I will give you though. But regardless of that, pre-release hype concerning such things where people were already planning out who to pair with whom is far more difficult to even hypothetically imagine even if I was an enthusiastic shipper - you don't know the characters yet, or how they will interact! People have expectations based upon what information they are being given that they want to see fufilled in ways that please them when it comes to these interactions. It's just reinforcing my angle.

Additionally, many people have criticised the badly executed S rank supports in FE13 anyway, so there is not a good precedent to be hyped on it being executed well.

And your point about knowing what to expect, isn't that the point of a bio? You want readers to have an idea of what kind of character they'll be.

This is kind of a chicken or the egg question, but I think it depends on the context. In the sense of being able to easily identify who you are interested in beforehand, which is clearly a focal point for FE14, yes. But in the sense of the older games, the bio's aren't really there to let you know in advance what to expect so much as just summarise the person they're describing. I know that sounds obvious, but it's like saying "is the purpose of the noun tree to define what a tree is, or does the tree itself define the purpose of the word tree?" I feel in older games the latter is more true, whilst now it feels like the former.

They could intentionally limit the bios on the official site for FE13 & 14 to be short long like the in-game character bios of past FE games, but there's no need to. If Dussell's bio was twice as long, they'd likely mention him possessing high morals as that's one of his most prominent character traits. Likewise, if Maribelle was in an older FE game we probably would have to actually observe her in-game to see that she's "cold to strangers, particularly to commoners, but warms up to them quickly", which is the second of her 3 sentences in her bio.

You have an incredible ability to focus on the least important parts of a statement. The older games hypothetically having a more detailed bio wouldn't change the fact that a characters behaviour would be the catalyst through which I could come to like them. Unless the game flat out comes out with exactly what Duessel says to Vigarde in his bio somehow, then there's no inherant worth in just it telling me that he has high morals or w/e.

Now, having said that, there are most definitely characters in FE13 through which people have come to enjoy for things they've done or said rather than just first impressions (Virion), but context matters. The game as a whole is full of polarising characters where whether you'll enjoy them or not is entirely dependant on their exaggerated trait, and generally, the extra reasons for liking a character are already well past the point of you liking them anyway. On average, it would appear that the fanbase feels a wider degree of extreme emotion towards larger portions of the cast as a result.

And just because you can make expectations about a character from their bio doesn't prevent them from being able to have the character development or backstory that you mentioned for Dussell and Jill. My point is there's nothing wrong with liking a character off of design and their bio, and it's not as if these feelings are set in-stone. I have a number of characters who I'm excited to try in Fates, but those feelings are all tentative.

Again, did not say this. It's remarkable how many things you're reading that simply are not there.

What I said was that characters who are engaged in subservient hero worship and will submit to your whims are very difficult to take seriously due to their obvious lack of agency. Everything else I criticised was part of my attempt to highlight this trend permeating throughout the game and the impressions individuals get from it. The contrast was not between whether someone was "wrong" or "right" in making early judgements based off aesthetic preferences, it was that general fanbase behaviour indicates that there are a significantly higher amout of people who are getting stronger impressions of how they feel about characters from basic information. That strength of feeling is because of each person's own preferences being more acutely accomodated to by any given character. Or in shorter terms; "Characters are created with exaggerated traits at the forefront so as to allow a player to easily identify their preferential units with which to experience more content/dialogue/etc with. This plays into the fact that rather than existing for their own sake, the characters obviously exist for the player."

I think majority is an overstatement, and I also don't think most of them quite reach the level of being caricatures, but I will say that compared to past FE games there is a higher concentration of unique personality traits. But that's just my opinion.

Make a list if you want, we can disagree over it.

I also didn't say caricatures was inappropriate to use, I said "exaggerated caricatures" was. Caricatures already means " ludicrously exaggerating the peculiarities or defects of persons or things", so that calling them exaggerated caricatures is basically putting them on the level of a side character in a cartoon who only exists to express one emotion. That's a description much more adept for Validar than say Noire, Lon'qu, Nah or even Tharja.

Oh please, this is pure pedantry. The name for this specific technique eludes me right now, but to use a reiterative adjective to describe a noun do not mean that the noun is somehow more predominant. If I say that "there was a peaceful silence" or words to that effect, the silence does not become somehow more silent because of the adjective.

Edited by Irysa
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I'm not gonna judge people for being excited about it or liking it! It's something that I don't like, full stop.

Lilith might work, but THIS is what full fanservice JUST FOR ME would look like:

[spoiler=Hoshido side, will do Nohr on request]Joker: Kamui, come quickly! An enemy approaches the castle!

Kamui: Fine, fine. Sorry, Ebony, your belly rub's gonna have to wait.

Ebony: MEOOW!

(outside)

Kamui: Huh, I'm the first one here. Wonder where everyone else is?

Ryoma: What are your orders?

Kamui: Erm. . .what's with the tall white hat?

Ryoma: I was supposed to cook dinner tonight.

Hinoka: Ready!

Kamui: Hinoka, an apron won't protect you from arrows!

Hinoka: I came directly from the shop! I even locked it up, like you requested!

Takumi: *yawns*

Kamui: . . .night clothes? And a nighty-cap?

Takumi: You woke me up from a perfectly good nap!

Suzukaze: Reporting.

Felicia: I made it~!

Kamui: The two of you are soaking wet! And what is up with that cloth over your head, Suzukaze?

Felicia: Ah, well. . .

Suzukaze: ....

Kamui: Do you really have to give me that look?

Felicia: You said that we were both ill-fitted for the kitchen, so. . .

Suzukaze: You ordered us to do everyone's laundry instead.

Kamui: Oh, uh, right. Thanks.

Silas: Am I late?

Kamui: Silas, you're covered head to toe in dirt! And a garden hoe is not a lance!

Silas: But I prepared the vegetable gardens, just like you asked!

Sakura: Let's go~!

Nishiki: ....

Suzukaze: A giant pink fluffy bow? On BOTH of you?

Kamui: Oh dear. . .

*Requests eclipse-style Nohr fanservice goodness*

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*Requests eclipse-style Nohr fanservice goodness*

Alright~!

[spoiler=Nohr side]

Joker: An enemy force approaches--what are you doing to Flannel?!

Kamui: Flannel? Nope, it's a plushie! I can SQUEEZE it and PULL it and HUG it and it won't complain~!

Joker: ...I will await your orders on the field.

Kamui: Aw, what a spoilsport. Alas, mini-Flannel, our cuddle session will have to wait.

---

Marx: What are your--ACHOO!--orders?

Kamui: I'm not so cruel as to punish you for taking the time to put on more than a towel, brother.

Camilla: Oh, come now. He's so very dedicated to you, just as I am!

Kamui: How many times must I tell you that the lottery balls are NOT hair ornaments?!

Camilla: But this is my way of making them lucky!

Leon: Hmph, this beats kitchen duty.

Kamui: You're not wearing an apron, and you're all wet--were you sent to do the dishes?

Pieri: Enemies? I'M GOING TO LEAVE THEIR GUTS ALL OVER THE GROUNDS!

Kamui: I'm sure that rake of yours will do a much better job than your usual lance.

Odin: By the shine of Ragnell, do I sense foul villains! FEAR NOT, FOR--MMMPH!

Elise: No, bad Odin! You're supposed to be having a tea party with me!

Benoit: Milady, I've set out the silverware, just as you asked.

Kamui: That's. IT! Marx, Odin, Benoit, and Elise, I order all of you to dress appropriately for battle!

Elise: But Odin and Benoit are drinking tea with me!

Kamui: There's a time and place for frilly tea dresses, and this is NOT it.

Marx: Gladly!

Benoit: If it is my commander's wish.

Odin: O foul villains, my absence is but a momentary reprieve! Odin will return, to--

Elise: Will you stuff it already?

Kamui: What did I do to deserve this?

Fanservice is different for everyone, and I'm a sucker for silly humor.

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For me, the biggest problem lies in the awakening characters/reincarnations. I absolutely hate this, and assume that they were on something when they thought of it.

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Where is this from?

And do other characters get something similar?

People hacked and found stuff for the DLC. Fates is getting a beach DLC like Awakening did. Hinoka, Sakura, and Elise all have CGs too, but they're more on the cute side than the sexy side.

EDIT: Here

Hinoka

aL8IAW2.jpg

Elise

LbQCfTd.jpg

Sakura

mHHQkpX.jpg

Edited by The Geek
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I didn't decide I liked Duessel as character when I first saw him. I decided that after I observed his own actions and behaviour in rebellion of Grado as a whole as indicative of his strong sense of morality, which won over his sense of duty. I didn't decide I liked Jill as a character when I first saw her. I decided that after I saw her come to terms with the lies she'd been brought up to believe, and grow as a person into an open minded young woman. But you get the point. Not everyone is comparable to that, but I'd rather more examples of these than what we're getting now.

This is one of the main reasons I fear for the series future, outside of the unnecessary fan service of course.

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I, for one, remember a time when IS used the support system to help us learn more about the characters and their stories, the world they inhabit and how they view it, the values they hold dear and the moral dilemmas they face. Of course, there was always an element of romance in some of these supports, and there is nothing wrong with that, since even during wartime, it's natural that people will fall in love with each other. Yet, these situations were handled somewhat differently, and definitely not as superficially as we saw it in Awakening - take the Seth/Eirika supports for example; interwoven with their growing attraction towards each other was a subtle discussion of the conflict between chivalry and personal love, so it had a purpose besides "shipping"; also, since there wasn't something as inane as the S-Support system in its current incarnation, the player had to wait until the end of the game to find out how this side-story would end. It was a surprise, and a pleasant one, at that; now, we get some instant gratification - forget about ambiguity, forget about personality and anything resembling a mature view of human relationships: I like your cleavage, so let's get married and start fucking rubbing each others faces! We're supposed to play this game with our dicks and clits, not with our brains.

Plus, all this focus on fan-service and sexuality really limits the types of interaction we see between the characters; there were barely any non-romantic supports or supports between characters of the same gender in FE:A. This is a big difference from earlier titles in the series; while Duessel had A-Supports with Knoll and Cormag, which revolved mainly about moral responsibility in war and their disillusionment in their former ideals (and which are in themselves better written than anything we got in FE13), he also had one with Amelia - it wasn't romantic, however; here, the old warrior (Great Knight, actually, but that's besides the point) was able to show a rather unexpected fatherly, caring side towards a girl that was basically a child soldier. I really liked these kind of supports - after all, there's more to life than getting into each others pants, and it fleshed out these characters in a way that wouldn't be possible if the only relevant factor is finding a waifu, virtually satisfying your sexual desires and breeding braindead children.

(By the way, I shudder to think what would have happened between them if Duessel and Amelia had made their debut in the era of Waifu Emblem.)

Also, and this might be just a subjective impression, but I do think that this new-found commitment to shipping our potential love interests has further narrowed down the diversity of playable characters. Again, this was especially apparent in Awakening, where our party basically consisted of a bunch of pretty, clueless teenagers having some fun killing the baddies. True, the teenage crowd was always a big part of the roster in any Fire Emblem game, but we also had characters like Duessel (yes, I know... I just love that old guy), Marcus, Dozla, Garcia, Vaida, Dorothy and Gonzalez - characters that maybe don't make any panties drop and aren't particularly cute or shippable, but nonetheless can be valid additions.

To be fair, Fates seems to make a step in the right direction with characters like Gunter and Benoit ... but then again, the majority of the playable characters seem to really fit the sugary cutesy type that FE13 really hammered in, and I won't even mention all the masturbation fodder the game provides.

So, long story short - does the amount fan-service bother me? It definitely does, and not so much because things like "skinshipping", drooling over video game characters in bathing suits or panty windows are inherently ridiculous (and they are), but more because it just exemplifies how much the series shifted in tone towards superficial fantasy-fullfilment and away from mature, varied supports, a diverse set of characters and a discussion of war that didn't boil down to kicking butt and looking sexy while doing so.

It may be just a symptom, but to me, it shows how much we've lost along the way.

Edited by The Obsidian
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Alright~!

[spoiler=Nohr side]

Joker: An enemy force approaches--what are you doing to Flannel?!

Kamui: Flannel? Nope, it's a plushie! I can SQUEEZE it and PULL it and HUG it and it won't complain~!

Joker: ...I will await your orders on the field.

Kamui: Aw, what a spoilsport. Alas, mini-Flannel, our cuddle session will have to wait.

---

Marx: What are your--ACHOO!--orders?

Kamui: I'm not so cruel as to punish you for taking the time to put on more than a towel, brother.

Camilla: Oh, come now. He's so very dedicated to you, just as I am!

Kamui: How many times must I tell you that the lottery balls are NOT hair ornaments?!

Camilla: But this is my way of making them lucky!

Leon: Hmph, this beats kitchen duty.

Kamui: You're not wearing an apron, and you're all wet--were you sent to do the dishes?

Pieri: Enemies? I'M GOING TO LEAVE THEIR GUTS ALL OVER THE GROUNDS!

Kamui: I'm sure that rake of yours will do a much better job than your usual lance.

Odin: By the shine of Ragnell, do I sense foul villains! FEAR NOT, FOR--MMMPH!

Elise: No, bad Odin! You're supposed to be having a tea party with me!

Benoit: Milady, I've set out the silverware, just as you asked.

Kamui: That's. IT! Marx, Odin, Benoit, and Elise, I order all of you to dress appropriately for battle!

Elise: But Odin and Benoit are drinking tea with me!

Kamui: There's a time and place for frilly tea dresses, and this is NOT it.

Marx: Gladly!

Benoit: If it is my commander's wish.

Odin: O foul villains, my absence is but a momentary reprieve! Odin will return, to--

Elise: Will you stuff it already?

Kamui: What did I do to deserve this?

Fanservice is different for everyone, and I'm a sucker for silly humor.

You definitely need to make like a full story of this kind of silly humor!

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I suppose the fanservice doesn't bother me by itself, it's more the fact that I go to the forums expecting discussion about the actual game and the characters and see to my horror pages on pages of threads about marriage, face touching, Camilla's boob sash and other things I don't care about.

Edited by Xander
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... Reduce supports?

You would think that sporadically touching someone's face would cause them to lose any affection for you that they had and probably get you ending up in jail, but it seems to build supports (and I've heard supposedly stats?) here.

Edited by Tryhard
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Thank you for your enlightening insights. I'll definitely have to snatch up a copy of Sacred Stones!

You definitely should - it's seriously underrated. Gameplay-wise, it's a bit on the easy side, but a good story and the best characterization in the series should make up for it!

Edited by The Obsidian
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I don't think I am bothered with all those fanservices.

Well, maybe one of the reasons why... is because us girl-gamers also get the fanservices X"D
I've seen many games where they provide so many fanservices and those fanservices are only for male players.

I have to confess that

those quotes from the male characters like Leon and Marx during their Amie make me want this game more and more... Hopefully they don't ditch or change most of the content way too much. Just go and get M rating, just don't do unnecessary censorings @@ because I see the Japanese games already have tons of fanservices, how the heck can they ditch all of it out or censor all of them well?

That's my opinion, please don't get mad at me

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The reason that it's so bothersome now is that it's sudden. I've seen GoT get brought up. GoT has established gratuitous sex and nudity since season 1. Xenosaga/Monolith soft has always had silly sexiness in their games. FE decides to pull this after some 15+ years or some shit. It's not what the series is about, so it seems that it's addition serves only to shameless sell copies. Brightbow legitimately has the best post in this thread. It's hard to take Rinka seriously when I have the option to call her into my room and rub her nose as if she was my best friend's dog. The existence of the option takes away from the characters. These things have no place in FE. Also, where do we draw the line? When does "it's optional" stop being a legitimate defense? Does FE15 have to have an optional mode when you can actually grope underdresseded, underaged characters before it's enough? Who cares if it is in bad taste; it's optional.

To be honest, I'd love it if Camilia were portrayed the way she is in that DLC picture. It establishes that she is a sexy individual without shoving it in my face. That's fanservice with taste. On the other hand, her introduction scene is not.

IS has decided that shameless hero worship is a staple to the series. Mind you, I will purchase the games. I want to experience the gameplay, as IF has A LOT of good ideas. However, I just hate that my purchase will support their shameless pandering instead of their creativity.

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Comparing face rubbing with gore is a bit too extreme.

There is a distinguishable difference between stroking someone's cheek and ripping someone's throat out.

They are completely different things.

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