Main Aqua discussion thread.

[Pepper]

Its uh, some Stockholm syndrome going on I think. They were both pretty young when they got kidnapped. Kamui has always thought of Garon as their dad and despite him being cruel, their 'siblings' have been kind to them, treating them like their own despite that and it gives them a reason to decide to pick Nohr, solely for their loved ones. From what I've seen on youtube, they are surprised to hear that they are from Hoshido originally as well. Aqua was raised differently, but no less manipulated. Due to their treatment of her, while kind it was more subtle. They treated her fairly from what I could tell and she actually ended up liking Hoshido because of it. However, it doesn't excuse the fact she was still kidnapped from her original family, nor does it excuse kidnapping Kamui from theirs. Both are jerks, Nohr is just more obvious about it, and both sides will more or less try to 'deal' with you (apparently if you side with Nohr, Hoshido cracks down on anyone with ties to that kingdom and Garon.. well, his favorite pasttime trying to kill Kamui.) despite raising the two characters as their own anyways.

Ultimately, they are pawns of both kingdoms. So, screw both Nohr and Hoshido and do the IK route. : ]

Both are pretty messed up from all this, I wanted more of calling out in IK but that never happened sadly.

[B.Leu]

I'm going to get hated, especially by Awakener, but to me... Aqua seems to be more and more like a stupid mary-suish walking invisible plot device. It's simply terrible, I don't know where to start... well, actually I do: Basically everything she say and her oh so good 'plans'.

I'm not sure if I should blame the plot, the writing, or the character though. :/

Both are pretty messed up from all this, I wanted more of calling out in IK but that never happened sadly.

They gloss over many things in FEA, but there is not much anyways. In If, it's in a way worse since there's a lot of important things that should be discussed about. Big time.

[Pepper]

I'm going to get hated, especially by Awakener, but to me... Aqua seems to be more and more like a stupid mary-suish walking invisible plot device. It's simply terrible, I don't know where to start... well, actually I do: Basically everything she say and her oh so good 'plans'.

I'm not sure if I should blame the plot, the writing, or the character though. :/

They gloss over many things in FEA, but there is not much anyways. In If, it's in a way worse since there's a lot of important things that should be discussed about. Big time.

I'd say writing as its the reason the plot is so shit, 500 pages of liquid ass.

[Thane]

Just to clear things up a bit, I was not trying to be offensive; it's just a bit tiring of seeing Nohr story hate freaking everywhere on the subforum.

Man, you sounded pissed, Then again, if you're upset about people complaining about Conquest's story, then it's only logical you lash out against me, seeing as I'm the biggest crybaby on the forum when it comes to that. Just for good measure:

Fuck that story. If I could unknow it, I would.

I was referring to treason as Marx would see it. Marx, being an almost literal knight in shining armor, probably has a very different view on what constitutes treason than Slime Monster!Garon does.

I cannot comment to much on the plan, since I don't speak Japanese and have to rely on second-hand summaries for any information. It involves a crystal ball and the throne of Hoshido, and that's pretty much all I know.

And yes, Garon does indeed need to be stopped, but saying that Marx and the other characters are "spineless cowards" for not committing treason is wrong. Was Camus a spineless coward for remaining loyal to Grust? Were the Wolfguard spineless cowards for remaining loyal to Hardin, even after he got pale skin and glowing red eyes (usually a sure sign that a guy's turned evil)? Was Selena a spineless coward for remaining loyal to Grado, despite she herself acknowledging that its actions were unjust? Were Ishtar and Reinhardt spineless cowards for continuing to fight for the Empire?

Yeah, that's grasping at straws, especially since we never learn of his distinction - I'm not saying disobeying his father is the same as killing him, but there's too much we don't know about Xander's thought process here, just like with the rest of the cast. I don't even know why we're talking about Xander since he's almost a non-factor in Conquest; he's just as inefficient as everyone else.

It's...very contrived. If you're interested I could provide you to a link to someone who explains things far better than I ever could pretty much chapter by chapter. That crystal ball and Azura's "plan", however, are some of the worst things in the entire game.

I'm sure those are good questions, but you're asking them to the wrong chap; I haven't played Genealogy of the Holy War. And while I have no idea how you've obtained your information regarding Conquest, it doesn't sound like you have read or understood enough of the dialogue to see how painfully poorly written, paced and uninteresting it is. Like I said earlier, one of the (many) key elements missing from the whole path is excitement; you're just never doing anything or getting anywhere, so the the fact that they're NOT killing Garon comes across as something very unnatural, since everyone's always grudgingly doing everything he says even though they're clearly against it and are afraid of where things are going. That's just boring, and since we all know they're gonna kill Garon anyway - or "Garon", since Kamui and Azura know it's a bloody slime monster - it just feels so sudden since there's zero build-up to it. You literally tell your siblings about your plan in the very same chapter you decide to kill him - where the hell is the tension?

I'm going to get hated, especially by Awakener, but to me... Aqua seems to be more and more like a stupid mary-suish walking invisible plot device. It's simply terrible, I don't know where to start... well, actually I do: Basically everything she say and her oh so good 'plans'.

I'm not sure if I should blame the plot, the writing, or the character though. :/

They gloss over many things in FEA, but there is not much anyways. In If, it's in a way worse since there's a lot of important things that should be discussed about. Big time.

As the ray of sunshine that I am, I'll have to agree with this post. Awakening felt lacking in worldbuilding, but while Fates had a little more meat to it, it's still far from enough and the execution is even worse if you can believe it. The whole game feels like a disjointed slideshow where you casually stroll through various independent duchies or regions which are forgotten about the very next chapter just to prolong the story. There are also so bloody many points in the game which are essentially the same in all routes with minor differences and other characters - this is to be expected, of course, and it's perfectly fine to reuse some assets, but when the story is more or less the same at various points in the game, you can't help but question the necessity of the decision to branch the game.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Thane

[Pepper]

Man, you sounded pissed, Then again, if you're upset about people complaining about Conquest's story, then it's only logical you lash out against me, seeing as I'm the biggest crybaby on the forum when it comes to that. Just for good measure:

Fuck that story. If I could unknow it, I would.

Yeah, that's grasping at straws, especially since we never learn of his distinction - I'm not saying disobeying his father is the same as killing him, but there's too much we don't know about Xander's thought process here, just like with the rest of the cast. I don't even know why we're talking about Xander since he's almost a non-factor in Conquest; he's just as inefficient as everyone else.

It's...very contrived. If you're interested I could provide you to a link to someone who explains things far better than I ever could pretty much chapter by chapter. That crystal ball and Azura's "plan", however, are some of the worst things in the entire game.

I'm sure those are good questions, but you're asking them to the wrong chap; I haven't played Genealogy of the Holy War. And while I have no idea how you've obtained your information regarding Conquest, it doesn't sound like you have read or understood enough of the dialogue to see how painfully poorly written, paced and uninteresting it is. Like I said earlier, one of the (many) key elements missing from the whole path is excitement; you're just never doing anything or getting anywhere, so the the fact that they're NOT killing Garon comes across as something very unnatural, since everyone's always grudgingly doing everything he says even though they're clearly against it and are afraid of where things are going. That's just boring.

As the ray of sunshine that I am, I'll have to agree with this post. Awakening felt lacking in worldbuilding, but while Fates had a little more meat to it, it's still far from enough and the execution is even worse if you can believe it. The whole game feels like a disjointed slideshow where you casually stroll through various independent duchies or regions which are forgotten about the very next chapter just to prolong the story. There are also so bloody many points in the game which are essentially the same in all routes with minor differences and other characters - this is to be expected, of course, and it's perfectly fine to reuse some assets, but when the story is more or less the same at various points in the game, you can't help but question the necessity of the decision to branch the game.

Thane could I name my first born after you? Anyway what gets me is that they could of gotten a decent story line if they really tried they could of made Aqua not have so much knowledge on stuff going on I get she is the lead girl and you don't want one of the main characters to be ignorant but she is deus ex machina and some major plot points could of been avoided if they proof read stuff I mean I'm a 3d modeller and in no way a Ernest Hemingway but if you gave me a weekend I could of come up with better more coherent story then Fates.

[Abysswalker25]

Eh, I think some people just don't want to hear that a game they were really looking forward to doesn't have the best story, if they're into that sort of thing. It hurts hype.

And Aqua always seems to have some convenient information. I don't know japanese so I hope there is some sort of explanation I missed other than it just coming out of the blue. Or they throw an explanation in there. I don't know.

Finally, regarding 'calling them out', it could have been done and it would have been interesting, but at the same time their siblings were never the ones to blame in the first place for what happened to Kamui and Aqua. It was Garon/Mikoto/Ninjaman(whoever kidnapped Aqua) and you don't see much of them for obvious reasons in IK.

[TheWerdna]

Thane could I name my first born after you? Anyway what gets me is that they could of gotten a decent story line if they really tried they could of made Aqua not have so much knowledge on stuff going on I get she is the lead girl and you don't want one of the main characters to be ignorant but she is deus ex machina and some major plot points could of been avoided if they proof read stuff I mean I'm a 3d modeller and in no way a Ernest Hemingway but if you gave me a weekend I could of come up with better more coherent story then Fates.

I know right? I am programmer who also writes shitty fanfiction in my free time, and I am 100% convinced I would write a better plot than this. (Not to say I think I would have just written the whole game, since I will give them credit when it comes to character/support writing being better than me)

[ivanhellsing]

some of you need a chill pill , but anyways I have a theory of why aqua might know everything but sadly I don't have the words to explain it

[Pepper]

some of you need a chill pill , but anyways I have a theory of why aqua might know everything but sadly I don't have the words to explain it

Try man this a civil talk were all adults here.

[ivanhellsing]

Try man this a civil talk were all adults here.

I just read a resume that blows my theory in 1 million pieces but it has to do with these time loops , but yeah I got nothing at all and back to square one , here is the "resume" so enjoy it to find more complainings keep in mind is long and some lame humor and has spoilers from the 3 routes and adults ? more like extreme fanboys would be the right word :/

http://www.jrpgreview.com/blog/fire-emblem-if-pt1

[Pepper]

I just read a resume that blows my theory in 1 million pieces but it has to do with these time loops , but yeah I got nothing at all and back to square one , here is the "resume" so enjoy it to find more complainings keep in mind is long and some lame humor and has spoilers from the 3 routes and adults ? more like extreme fanboys would be the right word :/

http://www.jrpgreview.com/blog/fire-emblem-if-pt1

I'm reading it I'll edit this post when I'm done, yeah this only reinforces how bad the story is god I forgot just how full retard Aqua and Kamui were in Nohr and IK while miles of head of Nohr in story is still bad.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Pepper

[Awakener_]

I'm going to get hated, especially by Awakener, but to me... Aqua seems to be more and more like a stupid mary-suish walking invisible plot device. It's simply terrible, I don't know where to start... well, actually I do: Basically everything she say and her oh so good 'plans'.

I'm not sure if I should blame the plot, the writing, or the character though. :/

I got over the "My Waifu is the Best! Can't do no wrong! Will white knight the hell out of her! (proceed to shovel her in another one's face)" phase, I won't be as petty as hating someone for not liking a character that is favored by me.

[Pepper]

I got over the "My Waifu is the Best! Can't do no wrong! Will white knight the hell out of her! (proceed to shovel her in another one's face)" phase, I won't be as petty as hating someone for not liking a character that is favored by me.

A mature man with his waifus my respect has gone up for you.

[B.Leu]

I dunno man, we're pretty mature and civil here I think, we're all bro. Or you have a strange definition of 'extreme fanboy'. :/

Just look at what Awakener said, can't have more cool than that.

Oh yeah, I've read that resume yesterday, pretty fun to read !

Edited July 26, 2015 by B.Leu

[Pepper]

I dunno man, we're pretty mature and civil here I think, we're all bro. Or you have a strange definition of 'extreme fanboy'. :/

Just look at what Awakener said, can't have more cool than that.

Oh yeah, I've read that resume yesterday, pretty fun to read !

It gave me flash backs of how awful the story was in Nohr I shit on IK alot but Nohr is worst, would fates story be worse then RD?

[ivanhellsing]

RD is the worst no im not hating RD because tumblr ike micai-sue fanboys piss me off not biased at all <_<

[Thane]

RD is the worst no im not hating RD because tumblr ike micai-sue fanboys piss me off not biased at all <_<

Dude, are you alright? Your posts make no sense at all, and you're not here to discuss Azura nor the story, but from what I gather you want us to "take a chill pill". Why?

[Pepper]

What they should of done for Aqua was have been the result of an affair Garon had with her mother and had the main Nohr siblings be from the late Queen, Garon would have kept the affair hush hush cause it would cause a shit storm in the kingdom he would of visited Aqua time to time cause Garon may of been an asshole but he did love his family forming some sort of bond with her. Hoshido should of been instigated the kidnapping by having their spies who knew of the affair kidnap her as blackmail only for Garon to kill their King and take Kamui, Aqua should of had the same dilemma Kamui had but being she knew fully well she was kidnapped all along but having this weird self hate about herself due her being Nohrian but drinking the Hoshidan kool-aid for all her life I can't think of anything else to really add but have her not have any clue of the IK .

[The DanMan]

I just read a resume that blows my theory in 1 million pieces but it has to do with these time loops , but yeah I got nothing at all and back to square one , here is the "resume" so enjoy it to find more complainings keep in mind is long and some lame humor and has spoilers from the 3 routes and adults ? more like extreme fanboys would be the right word :/

http://www.jrpgreview.com/blog/fire-emblem-if-pt1

This just reinforces what has already been said. Nohr's story is awful, but has much more challenging gameplay and map design as well as more interesting characters, while Hoshido's story is nothing special but much better than Nohr, with very easy gameplay, and Touma is a mix of the two, but has a contrived story and sappy ending.

You just can't have everything, can you? I'd almost say it was deliberately designed that way (EDIT: I wasn't seriously thinking this. Should've put a wink e-moticon there or something.

I'm expecting Western reviewers to either heap the praise on as with Awakening or shit on Nohr's everything.

Edited July 27, 2015 by The DanMan

[astrophys]

I think you're starting to verge into paranoia territory here.

Probably most players in their audience are going to buy one or the other, not both, if I'd make my guess. The people who frequent forums like us are a minority and are disproportionately represented with "hardcore" FE players relative to the larger FE-playing population.

Of course, I don't have numbers, so this is pure speculation on my part.

But if my guess is correct, then deliberately sabotaging the story like you are trying to suggest wouldn't move more copies overall…. many players would only ever bother to get one copy in the first place. And also, many players getting both (or all three, considering 3rd route) might do so anyways regardless what was in the story, so sabotaging the story to sell more versions wouldn't actually work on these people either, as they were a "pre-sold audience" anyways.

If anything, sabotaging the story would just lead to people hearing bad reviews of the game's story, driving away players who might have have considered picking up the game for its story….

I won't argue about whether the story actually is bad or not…. but I'll argue that it seems to make little sense for them to intentionally sabotage themselves….. making a mistake or incompetence would seem a more likely cause for a possibly bad story than outright malice.

Bringing the topic back to Aqua…. I never saw a real "waifu" appeal to her and have no intention of pairing my Avatar with her. And besides, that would be

first cousin incest

anyways.

[Pepper]

I think you're starting to verge into paranoia territory here.

Probably most players in their audience are going to buy one or the other, not both, if I'd make my guess. The people who frequent forums like us are a minority and are disproportionately represented with "hardcore" FE players relative to the larger FE-playing population.

Of course, I don't have numbers, so this is pure speculation on my part.

But if my guess is correct, then deliberately sabotaging the story like you are trying to suggest wouldn't move more copies overall…. many players would only ever bother to get one copy in the first place. And also, many players getting both (or all three, considering 3rd route) might do so anyways regardless what was in the story, so sabotaging the story to sell more versions wouldn't actually work on these people either, as they were a "pre-sold audience" anyways.

If anything, sabotaging the story would just lead to people hearing bad reviews of the game's story, driving away players who might have have considered picking up the game for its story….

I won't argue about whether the story actually is bad or not…. but I'll argue that it seems to make little sense for them to intentionally sabotage themselves….. making a mistake or incompetence would seem a more likely cause for a possibly bad story than outright malice.

Bringing the topic back to Aqua…. I never saw a real "waifu" appeal to her and have no intention of pairing my Avatar with her. And besides, that would be

first cousin incest

anyways.

That really came out of no where and like most things served no purpose to the story.

[Iron Griffin]

That really came out of no where and like most things served no purpose to the story.

I dont have much of an issue with the cousinship although I can understand why it feels awkward to some but there is nothing really wrong with it and I find it funny that people get that worked up over stuff like that. What really bugged me however was the way it was handled from a story telling aspect since its never brought up again and it was indirectly revealed. Its only purpose was to show that Kamui was of the Touma bloodline. They never address how it affected either of the two.

[Pepper]

I dont have much of an issue with the cousinship although I can understand why it feels awkward to some but there is nothing really wrong with it and I find it funny that people get that worked up over stuff like that. What really bugged me however was the way it was handled from a story telling aspect since its never brought up again and it was indirectly revealed. Its only purpose was to show that Kamui was of the Touma bloodline. They never address how it affected either of the two.

It severed no value it could of been yea I knew Aqua's mum cause were both from Touma.

[Iron Griffin]

It severed no value it could of been yea I knew Aqua's mum cause were both from Touma.

I'm going to put something BlackMage had said to me in regards to this topic because we are retreading old ground here. These are his words not mine.

Given that Aqua was part of the real royal family before Hydra took control of the Kingdom, Kamui having blood directly close to the real royal family is important. Instead of just "redeeming" the ruling of a Tyrant by continuing it in a pacific manner, what happens is that Kamui taking control if he is part of the direct royal family makes him inheriting the throne just. And that's what happens, Aqua stays to help Kamui, but he ends up as the ruler by right because that's what Aqua wanted.

You take their blood relation away and all you get is the kid of the evil previous tyrant continuing his reign while the princess abdicates the throne. The reason why she can do it so freely is because Kamui IS the next person on line to inherit the throne.

It's not random, it's there for a reason. Specially given that this ends up being the only path where Kamui can end up as the ruler of a Kingdom that is his solely by birthright. Even if Mikoto was the queen of Hoshido, she was only part of the royal family by marriage, no blood involved.

As for MY standpoint

It is not the Kissing Cousins thing that bothers me but how it is handled after the reveal. It is never addressed by ANYONE especially Kamu and Aqua. This was a real missed opportunity for some real heavy drama. Regardless if they are lovers or not with just about all of their family dead they are the only survivors of their bloodline there should be some weight there! But once again the theme of family is drowned out for the plot. Could it have been rewritten to not have that angle? Yes but keep in mind Japan doesn't see anything wrong with this.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Iron Griffin

[Pepper]

I wonder how she'll be in the Manga.