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Hacker's Hangout [Q22] half baked ideas


ghast
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I'm gonna go with that chapter with Denning in it.

It felt so intense, always. I remember getting RNG screwed and got hit by sleeps and stuff. And I had to make Wallace and Dorcas become heroes and save the day. I needed Eliwood to rush over and rescue someone in danger and stuff.

It seemed like a really high stakes chapter. and of course, denning was quite memorable.

i have it recorded, but i remember it being super hype :P

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Whichever chapter has Erik is in

IMO, it's really well made with the different ways to approach the boss, the boss itself, the rewards, and trying to get Erk away from danger

Also, I feel this is the only chapter that does rain right

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Eliwood's chapter with Zoldam in it (the Shaman with Luna and Speedwings guy), forgot the number right now.

That chapter is slow-paced and easy to deal with it using Lucius/Hector for the Shamans and Oswin/Florina for the Mercenaries. The boats are also cool, duh. Managed to beat the chapter before the 3rd boat had appeared xD

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  • 2 months later...
[5:27:55 PM] ghast: okay, you know in mappy/tiled in the "write map pointer" box?
[5:28:38 PM] Matt Chung (Agro): yuuup?
[5:29:02 PM] ghast: can you point that to free space?
[5:29:11 PM] ghast: like I've been using the vanilla ones the whole time
[5:29:17 PM] ghast: and just reusing them
[5:29:22 PM] Matt Chung (Agro): wtf
[5:29:24 PM] Matt Chung (Agro): of course you can
[5:29:36 PM] ghast: lekeks
[5:29:40 PM] Matt Chung (Agro): omg
[5:29:46 PM] Matt Chung (Agro): how have you not been fucking up every map
[5:29:55 PM] ghast: because Agro
[5:30:02 PM] ghast: I'm the best worst hacker in the community

fucking idiot

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eeeyyy chapter 10 bwVJahN.png

made it to double digits

2-6 = 10?

Anyway, congrats? :D

I don't hack anymore because I completely and totally broke my most recent one by corrupting an event somewhere and not having any idea how I did it but I'm playing through FE7 and

mkMehfs.png

Look at that mountain. If any hacker/fan game maker made a mountain like that one, the critiquers would be all up on that person's case about how badly the mountain is made, LOL.

Also, it's good to know that the devs don't give a crap about whether or not the river tiles are flowing the proper direction. Cuz I sure don't care, either.

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Why are some people averse to early game special weapons like reavers and slayers? Is it wise for project makers to give special weapons to enemies at the beginning of the game? Or is it always a bad idea? Why or why not?

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How early is "early"?

I think that it's perfectly fine to give bosses stronger weapons earlier on.

What I don't like is the common enemy having access to Silver weapons looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong before I do. That just makes me mad. lol.

As for reaver/slayer weapons, it really depends. I think reavers are fine, but I don't think we should hand the common enemy a weapon that could easily take down a unit in a single hit. (Pegasus Knights are kind of the exception, because if you didn't give them that weakness, what's preventing them from just going everywhere and anywhere? lol.)

EDIT:

if you corrupted an event file you can fix it you know!

I could...if I knew what the heck I corrupted. That particular chapter didn't have its own customized events... Although I suppose making custom events would solve the issue. Shame the project I'm working on now has nothing to do with that hack lol.

Edited by MagicLeafy
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I think special weapons are fine early game

As long as their counterable

I.E. I don't want a brigand with a swordslayer running at my team that has only sword users

that would be dumb

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I think the aversion is the result of the general familiarity with how the majority of the more recent games in the series (especially the GBA ones) start out. The early maps lean towards "teaching" the player and giving them some soft targets to wail on while their party is still very low level. With that "familiarity" and "training" it's also about bringing people into where the game is going and how it works - despite the fact that players should be checking enemy stats, formations, etc. before diving in, the creator can flip assumptions on the players' heads - using an existing map sprite for a new class that operates differently than the one being drawn from or players simply assuming that "oh, there's a Fighter over there and this is the early game, so I should be able to send my generic swordie over there to deal with him in two turns", when in fact said Fighter has a Swordreaver, and the player cries foul over being "duped".

Honestly, if you ask me, adding minor amounts of early game special stuff (maybe not as much towards the effective weapons group though) like a random Swordreaver that a (successful) Bandit might have swiped from someone he stole from or killed and forcing the player to actually pay attention to enemy statistics and inventories before just rapidly clicking the A button and charging forward might add the right amount of difficulty to projects without going the absurd routes of huge enemy densities or stat inflations for players looking for more of a "challenge".

But, like MagicLeafy said, there needs to be some control over it too - if enemy bosses are walking around with Silver Swords in Chapter 3 with underlings wielding things ranging from Steel Lances to Light Brands, I think you might have went too far. Let's say that, storywise, you're playing as a Marth-like character with 4 FE9-style Cavaliers rounding out your party; giving more than, say, 2 horse-effective weapons to the enemy is probably pushing the boundary into the "forced difficulty" range. But if you give the enemies a handful of Knights (maybe one with an Axereaver) and stick a Horseslayer on a non-GBAFE stat-wise Soldier that's near that knight, then you open up the player to have to think about what they want to do. Do they send their "Marth" to deal with the Axereaver knight because of the Horseslayer? Do they risk their Sword Knight against the Knight instead? Or do you send the Axe Knight for neutrality against the Axereaver and hope to dodge the Horseslayer's increased damage with triangle advantage over it?

Now, consider that scenario as an average early-game chapter straight out of GBAFE and you'd have a ton of low-stat Soldiers using Iron Lances that fall in two hits to pretty much everything on the team that you can steamroll through in like 10 minutes.

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I think special weapons are fine early game

As long as their counterable

I.E. I don't want a brigand with a swordslayer running at my team that has only sword users

that would be dumb

Counterable is the keyword there for sure

I think the aversion is the result of the general familiarity with how the majority of the more recent games in the series (especially the GBA ones) start out. The early maps lean towards "teaching" the player and giving them some soft targets to wail on while their party is still very low level. With that "familiarity" and "training" it's also about bringing people into where the game is going and how it works - despite the fact that players should be checking enemy stats, formations, etc. before diving in, the creator can flip assumptions on the players' heads - using an existing map sprite for a new class that operates differently than the one being drawn from or players simply assuming that "oh, there's a Fighter over there and this is the early game, so I should be able to send my generic swordie over there to deal with him in two turns", when in fact said Fighter has a Swordreaver, and the player cries foul over being "duped".

Honestly, if you ask me, adding minor amounts of early game special stuff (maybe not as much towards the effective weapons group though) like a random Swordreaver that a (successful) Bandit might have swiped from someone he stole from or killed and forcing the player to actually pay attention to enemy statistics and inventories before just rapidly clicking the A button and charging forward might add the right amount of difficulty to projects without going the absurd routes of huge enemy densities or stat inflations for players looking for more of a "challenge".

Good point!

But, like MagicLeafy said, there needs to be some control over it too - if enemy bosses are walking around with Silver Swords in Chapter 3 with underlings wielding things ranging from Steel Lances to Light Brands, I think you might have went too far. Let's say that, storywise, you're playing as a Marth-like character with 4 FE9-style Cavaliers rounding out your party; giving more than, say, 2 horse-effective weapons to the enemy is probably pushing the boundary into the "forced difficulty" range. But if you give the enemies a handful of Knights (maybe one with an Axereaver) and stick a Horseslayer on a non-GBAFE stat-wise Soldier that's near that knight, then you open up the player to have to think about what they want to do. Do they send their "Marth" to deal with the Axereaver knight because of the Horseslayer? Do they risk their Sword Knight against the Knight instead? Or do you send the Axe Knight for neutrality against the Axereaver and hope to dodge the Horseslayer's increased damage with triangle advantage over it?

Awesome example.

Now, consider that scenario as an average early-game chapter straight out of GBAFE and you'd have a ton of low-stat Soldiers using Iron Lances that fall in two hits to pretty much everything on the team that you can steamroll through in like 10 minutes.

Just to bounce off this. If you're playing hacks then you're definitely experienced enough (or you should be) to check inventories. Its like a really basic skill.

I'm guilty of the "early game special weapons, really?" kind of mentality. I'm not sure how I got into that mindset at all. but I stuck with it. But since playing a lot of hacks and the vanilla games more often, special weapons in moderation in the early game are cool in my books.

Edited by Ghastly
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There's a lot of variables to consider when it comes to that.

On one hand, you don't want to place like, 30+ enemies in a map that's small or medium-sized--too many enemies at once will cause a lot of issues, especially considering how unfair Fog of War systems usually are. (You can't see them, but they can sure as heck see you!) But on the other hand, placing enemies too sparingly will get a bit boring. There's also the fact that we have so many different types of map objectives.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think that FoW enemies should not be very dense, but should have many enemies spread over key locations.
They should also not be very strong, or have limited access to special weaponry (IE: Slayer weapons, effectiveness type weapons that aren't bows, ect...)

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I think that fog of war enemies should be distributed/placed in order to give the player a sense of risk and reward. Maybe some enemies with loot or a recruitable character that could have been missed had the player turtled too much. FoW offers a mystery element to a game with otherwise mainly visible enemies (Yeah, reinforcements and whatnot can be surprising, too), and thus the enemies should use the advantage. Ambushers hidden in fog can provide a challenge, but should never be overwhelming with a slight misstep.

TL;DR relatively sparse but strategic and cleverly placed to allow dynamic gameplay and a challenge.

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I think fog of war is a dumb mechanic if there are no random elements involved such as perhaps reinforcements

it's unfair for you without knowledge, and yet with repetition and/or torches it ends up becoming meaningless

but for some middleground... generally I prefer the locked room mechanic, where a room is invisible until a door is opened

I also like FE5's version of fog, where you can't even see the terrain

as far as enemies, FE5 again did it pretty well in my opinion (except for that stupid tahra evacuation chapter) with many of the fog chapters having you move single file, this way there is much less risk to getting gangbanged

Edited by Lamia
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  • 1 month later...

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