Rhythm Tengoku Mafia: The Best + (Game Over)

[Iris]

Urgh, sorry guys got caught up in work but will be reading now and posting soon~

[Refa]

Making posts is hard! It's funny because I was debating posting this since I was like "what if people think I'm scum because they'll be like you never have a hard time making posts as town" but I do what I want.

paperblade is town

Jokepost or serious? Because Paper's kind of fallen off of the radar (the only thing he's really done is vote Elieson) and it was starting to bother me.

Shin, it's fine with me if you don't agree with j00's swap being scummy but that's only one part of my scumread on her. Also don't think I mentioned anything about her avoiding stuff other than ignoring my scumread on her (which was before her latest content post). I can appreciate being busy but I don't see how you can miss someone voting for you.

Not sure what to make of Eli's latest posts. On one hand, his Blitz scumread seems kind of...weak, but tone wise it makes more sense as town? Wouldn't vote over j00/Dormio.

Blitz, I don't find that line by Elie to be weird.

Probably should take another look at Shin to see if Blitz is onto anything there; off hand, I don't remember being bothered by him.

[Paperblade]

I actually think Blitz is town

His meta is really obvious

[Blitz]

Jokepost or serious? Because Paper's kind of fallen off of the radar (the only thing he's really done is vote Elieson) and it was starting to bother me.

I think Bizz was being serious, because Paperblade is hard townmeta'ing. Either Paperblade is pulling a Shinori (by which I mean someone who is intentionally copying townmeta) or is actually town.

@Snike, I actually thought I quoted your case along with Refa's too.....

yeah, it seems I forgot, I agree with your case on j00 too.

you forgot to respond to this

btw, at everyone,

Thank you, I needed this, because on first read, I really didn't understand your other line as it originally read to me as "guys i voted shin because i'm bored and wanted stuff to happen" as opposed to "guys i voted shin because i wanted to try to do something to move the game along.

does anyone find this post to be weird in any way?

[Iris]

I. General Things

1. Wow, just realized I went nearly 48 hours without a post and no prod post? C'mon, mods.

2. Is that 20 post thing a thing? I thought it was a joke when Kaoz mentioned it, but Refa repeated it and no one answered Snike's question about it (unless I missed it).

II. Voting

##Vote: Elieson

So I just finished reading the thread, and gut says Elieson is very scummy. I'm sure someone will get on my case and say that my thoughts aren't original and Elieson is an easy person to make a case on but I'll try to explain my #gutreads and #irislogic.

[spoiler=iris logic]1. I wasn't a fan of Elieson's first post, here. Manix's post verbalized a lot of what I was thinking as I read it, since I also wasn't a fan of his tone and "non-words" and proceeding to vote someone else. I understand that it's a RVS vote, but (1) in one of my last few games with Elie (~circa a year ago), I had the same gut feeling about him being scum but I didn't push it and he flipped scum. (2) I find timing relevant in a different way; this is very speculative, but I figured the "non-words" way of voting had to do with the fact that he didn't want to be a third vote on Refa (which I interpret as kind of scummy).

2. This initial interaction wasn't enough for me to consider Elie as scum right off the bat, but I was wary of him and future posts did not help my read of him.

a. #37 I didn't like how Elieson did not respond to Manix's suspicion on him, instead brushing it off with j00's reasoning about how he tends to get mislynched a lot D1. I also thought his vote's reasoning was poorly worded (like in a 'Manix is being fake tryhard as he is giving a non-reason to vote for the person he's voting for'.

3. I don't like how he mentioned inactives. I find drawing attention to inactives to be kind of a little scummy when you're under pressure/scrutiny from the town since it's an easy statement to make to make it seem like you're contributing and if the inactives aren't obviously lurking!player, then inactive calling out posts don't really make people post more.

4. tl;dr, my vote comes from a lot of gut/wary feelings + D1 logic. I'm not a confident D1 player but out of the players so far I think Elieson is the scummiest though I also don't feel comfortable (gut-wise) with some votes that were on him, but at the same time I feel like Elie's defense is a little different from how he's currently playing, when he's town.

@Elieson: How do you feel about Paperblade's reasoning of suspicion of you?

III. Other Reads

1. I have a few townreads, but a lot are associative, so not really important. Mostly null reads since I'm not that good with D1 scum hunting, but I'll reread again to see what I can pick up.

2. Dormio

I don't really understand the Dormio case? Like I don't think Snike claiming Manix was very town to him is buddying; rather, I think it doesn't say anything at all about Manix's alignment should Snike flip scum, since it could just as easily be a scum player claiming a town read on someone that's easy to make a town case on and gain #cred. I don't really agree with your logic or votes so far, but I don't think 'bad' or well, logic that doesn't make sense to me, is necessarily a scumtell. *Would also appreciate if someone could enlighten me on how new Dormio is. Haven't seen this face around before so was wondering if he was a new player. Only partially relevant to my read of him, but would like to know.*

[Iris]

@blitz: idk if i found it weird (maybe slightly?) but perception is skewed since i find elieson scummy for other reasons. i just don't rly agree with his logic on his manix read at the beginning, but the post didn't rly strike me as anything special? did it to you?

[Elieson]

@Iris don't take this meanly but i don't really care about paper's thoughts on me since he's at least thinking and it's stil early phase

[Blitz]

@blitz: idk if i found it weird (maybe slightly?) but perception is skewed since i find elieson scummy for other reasons. i just don't rly agree with his logic on his manix read at the beginning, but the post didn't rly strike me as anything special? did it to you?

darn it, my parents will put me to sleep, permanently! if I don't go to sleep right now, but, I have a reason to find it weird and I would like the thoughts on it from a few other people before I talk about it (Paperblade, you are one of the people who needs to talk about it).

[Prims]

Votals 1.5

Elieson (4) - j00, Paperblade, Manix, Iris

j00 (3) - Refa, Via, Snike

Shin (2) - Blitz, Kaoz

Kaoz (1) - Haze

Snike (1) - Dormio

Dormio (1) - Shin

Blitz (1) - Elieson

Not Voting (0): None!

You have 23 hours and 52 minutes left in the phase. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Haze has been prodded yes I forgot about prods leave me alone

Edited July 1, 2015 by Prims

[Refa]

It's not early phase lol.

[Iris]

@elieson: is that a backhanded comment at saying i'm not thinking or just that you find his playing good so far? would not really call it early phase when there's 1/3 day left and you're the highest wagon thus far.

also @votals, for some reason i thought dormio had more votes than what he has right now. wrt to j00, like via i felt weird about the sudden flip wrt elieson but i've done that before as town so i think it's not necessarily a scum tell. will reread to think more about whether i like her (er, him? them? need to check that) as a lynch option.

[Refa]

Also you should check out my case on j00. #NoBias

[Elieson]

@iris I think papervlade is townand also thinking/posting like town :)

[Elieson]

Damnit phone pa-perv-lade I can't unsee this now

[Haze]

Okay, this is the fifth time I've tried to write this post today, and I think I'm just going to trim the fat because the other times I've tried it's just gotten bloated and stupid.

If it's alright, I'll skim over the Manix/Shin spat at the start of the phase, it's rooted in a jokepost and an overzealous attempt to get us out of RVS, if someone actually does want more in-depth thoughts on it from me, feel free to ask.

There's a couple people I feel iffy about at the minute, namely j00 and Dormio, maybe Refa as well but Refa just strikes me more as just being a flippant person.

j00's #33 vote on Manix was strange enough, as his argument was basically 'hey, you helped push us out of rvs! I DON'T LIKE THAT' then he waffles on about how Elie and Shin are 'safe' day 1 lynches/mislynches. I'd probably ignore it if not for #47, where he flip flops and attacks Elie, one of his 'safe day 1 lynches,' for voting Manix. The first half of his #47 wasn't fantastic either, I don't disagree with the sentiment that Via was being hypocritical, but rather than aggressively calling it out, he shrunk back and asked 'why me?' Which is a non-confrontational and defensive stance to take, maybe it's just me, but I take issue with that.

As for Dormio, I have to disagree with Blitz's assessment that scum wouldn't act like that, if I could get away with hand waving and blaming every inconsistency or thing I ignored on DotA or laziness as scum, I'd do it in a bloody heartbeat. My issues with him start with #60, where he says he'd vote for Manix but other people already did, it just strikes me as a weak jab at Manix while trying to avoid jumping on the bandwagon. Then he goes and attacks Snike for disagreeing with the Manix wagon, calling it 'hard defending' or 'buddying up,' which it wasn't in the slightest.

Of the two, frankly, I'd prefer to lynch Dormio and be done with it, but my read on j00 seems stronger, so I'll

##Unvote

##Vote: j00

I've written and deleted about 4 extra paragraphs for this post so far so I'll just leave it as it is for the moment before I start doing a Snike.

Paperblade is scum, I've forgotten to comment on something but I can't remember what*, I suck at mafia, day 1 sucks, and the mafia should shoot me.

*Please call me out if you want comments on certain things, I'm rusty beyond belief.

[Paperblade]

blitz the only thing weird to me about that line is that there doesn't seem to be a difference in the two things Elieson was saying imo

Iris might be scum I feel like she is bandwagoning

[j00]

I'm probably gonna get flak for this, but regarding my Manix vote, the reason I didn't say anything about Refa's case on me was because I'm not going to defend it. I disagreed with his post wrt to Elie and Shin and thought it felt opportunistic, so I voted him.

I'm okay with his reply, the intent felt more like getting discussion along and his vote moved the game out of RVS, which I even mentioned in my vote post, and I don't think Manix is scum. I wanted to get discussion along and move out of RVS so I discussed with him. I don't have anything more to say about the Manix case.

I disagree with my change to Elie being that jarring though, because the Manix case was the second post after RVS and not something to hold on. Elie also agreed with Manix being bad, so I "changed it because I didn't get support" is silly, at that time I could've just bided my time until yet someone else agreed with Manix' case being flimsy.

Maybe I'm just bad at reading, but I can't parse Snike's case on Elie:

Elie responded to Manix with what looks like a loaded question because I don't really see the 'reasons to not vote shin'? The reason he(Manix) mentioned Shin's Serious Shenanigans was probably to shoot down that counterargument in advance (Quote mentioned this). He (Elie) later reiterated that he was voting Manix despite the linked Quote post + disagreement with voting Shin over jokespoiler. That's weak, and the first point is vague enough to smear. However he's starting to come around if what I'm being cut by is anything to go on. Would start as second lynch priority.

I feel like you're simplyfying Elie's case a bit too much. You come with your own interpretation of the intent behind Manix's post, and link to Via's counterargument and say Elie disagreed, and that's why his vote is weak, but "he's starting to come around" which is relevant how? This whole section feels very vague and waffly since you're not directly saying why you feel Elie is bad, you just give a summary of what happened and read doesn't feel genuine.

I agree with Via that Dormio voting Snike for defending Manix and ignoring Via is weird, but so far he just seems lazy. Would like to hear if he's got some other reads.

Paper do you have any actual cases

I have no idea what Elie is trying to say?? There's a lot of quoting but only some fluffy statements and eh reads, keeping my vote on him unless someone else are worse.

Need to read the last two pages properly with Blitz, Iris, Kaoz and Shin, just gonna post this first to make things more readable.

Also just saw Haze calling me out for being non-confrontive you wanna fite man

[Paperblade]

Nope!

[j00]

Okay I lied I'm too tired to read Blitz today dude you do you have to quote so much

Kaoz posted a couple of reads and voted Shin purely out of gut??

I also see Snike made a wallafter the one I commented on which I am also too tired to read! I'll try to get out a post early tomorrow but damn I'm beginning to appreciate Paper's posting style

[Refa]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Not as confident about j00 after that last post. Not seeing the scum intent in the first two paragraphs (and she did bring up a good point about Snike that I hadn't considered), with the only thing bothering me being that the Elieson read seems kind of tacked on (which is admittedly pretty bad)? Actually I'm not sure why Elieson is worse than Snike FYPOV or why you're still scumreading him. Just seems kind of lazy.

Still annoyed that Paperblade is actively lurking and noone is calling him out on it. Someone explain to me how he is playing to his town meta.

I dunno Blitz, I reread Shin and nothing's really bothering me? Your case on him is largely based on what you'd expect him to do, and I find that to be kind of a subpar method of scumhunting (because people will act differently from game to game regardless of alignment). Admittedly, I fucking suck at reading Shin, mostly because I can't even remember the last time I've played a game where he was scum. I've deduced that the problem with reading Shin is that he doesn't know the meaning of pressure, so he tends to react similarly as either alignment (although his actual content is weaker as scum, hence my not scum read on him). =(

Reread Elieson's ISO again and still not feeling it. Like, I don't agree with his reasoning but I'm really struggling to see the scum motivation in picking some of the hardest people to lynch (no fuck you, Blitz doesn't get lynched as town anymore which is what he probably is) and sticking to votes on them. Meta incoming, but I feel like he'd do something dumb as fuck as scum by now and we'd lynch him and hi fives would be had.

[Paperblade]

Refa if you think I'm scummy why don't you do something about it :^)

[Percivalé]

Paperblade is not active lurking the same way he was in Thousand Names, & he's already more memorable than he was in that game @Refa. Admittedly it's harder to tell until later game though, when Paperblade is town I tend to scumread him until middlegame because that's when he starts posting more and it becomes more obvious. His last post doesn't read as something he would do as scum though, ngl his scum defenses are weak as in he doesn't actually do anything about suspicions on him whereas he's actually actively challenging Refa here lol.

Paperblade, why do you think Blitz is town/explain his meta? I don't know how to read Blitz (or Shin) so I'm curious.

I fell asleep for 5 hours and I have more math to do but I'm about done and then I'm gonna reread. It feels like I have more townreads than scumreads again )=

[Grace]

so i've read the thread, but decided to intentionally coast out a bit bc effort is hard

does anyone find this post to be weird in any way?

only insofar as having to explain everything in complete detail on my end.

refa's last post did... nothing? he's says he's not so sure on j00 after her last post, complains about paperblade active lurking, but does absolutely nothing about it? in fact, looking at his iso as well, he's giving non-concrete responses to a lot of points.

##Unvote

##Vote: Refa

elie's more recent posts aren't terrible, dormio is worse than him for sure at this point

lynch priority is something like refa > dormio >> elie

[Elieson]

Guys something that's really stressful that I haven't ever had to deal with came up and i can't ignore it any longer. I don't plan on leaving the game but my activity will be sparse for the remainder of the day phase and probably the first 24 hours of D2, assuming i'm still around (not lynched/killed/subbed)

[Grace]

oh right that's the other thing i wanted to mention and i forgot to:

we have less than 24 hours and we should probably be consolidating Soon before we end up panic lynching someone at deadline

also i probably won't be around for deadline since it's at 8am-ish and my sleep pattern is still messed (probably will end up being awake until around 4am though so)