Jedi Concepts Online Multiplayer: Tournaments? Metagame?

[Bovinian]

Yes I would definitely be down for this. I know it's too early but I do suspect that Kamui will be incredibly broken. Still, would it even be possible to ban Kamui? Isn't he forced on every team? Lol

[Jedi]

Yes I would definitely be down for this. I know it's too early but I do suspect that Kamui will be incredibly broken. Still, would it even be possible to ban Kamui? Isn't he forced on every team? Lol

Well in skirmishes in Awakening and the FE11 multiplayer (iirc anyways) the lords weren't forced there, so I don't think Kamui will be forced on these.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Jedi

[Awakener_]

I gonna buy all the Skill scrolls, Golds and EXPs DLCs just to steamrolled the enemy, so effing tired of when back in Shadow Dragon days when people used action replay to buff their units to hilarious broken degree. I gonna purely focus on eugenic on another file for online multi-players purposes. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

All we need now is know what the most broken-ass thing in the game.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Awakener_

[Jedi]

I heard from one of the people watching the streams that apparently this multiplayer can be up to 4 people fighting each other at once.

Can't confirm this currently however.

[Five5]

A tournament with just captured generic enemies could work for those worried about balancing.

[Medeus]

That could be a lot of fun, though I do agree that it could be hard to balance. Using only generics is a good options as suggested above, and maybe once we do have a better grasp of the game, we could limit certain aspect like skills if they turn out to be too overpowered.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Medeus

[Five5]

By meta game does it mean just tournaments or other things like a community driven campaign.

[DRTJR]

This has been a thing I have wanted since forever, and now it exists. I am excite!

[Jedi]

Generics would be an interesting way to go about it, but I'm sure we can have various rulesets and stuff.

Generics, Civil War (same version vs same version), Hoshido vs Nohr, the 1v1v1v1's would also be interesting, 3rd route stuff.. ALL OF IT :P

[Sentacotus]

How about 1v1v1v1 only one person on each team being the MU. One MU to rule them all.

[Jedi]

How about 1v1v1v1 only one person on each team being the MU. One MU to rule them all.

Hahaha no :P

[ErrantDShepherd]

A tournament with just captured generic enemies could work for those worried about balancing.

Generics would be an interesting way to go about it, but I'm sure we can have various rulesets and stuff.

Generics, Civil War (same version vs same version), Hoshido vs Nohr, the 1v1v1v1's would also be interesting, 3rd route stuff.. ALL OF IT :P

An all generic and generic boss units battle would be interesting... A little bit of extra challenge in raising said units to be OP. Since generics and Amiibos appear to both be limited in their reclasses, especially the Amiibos who can't even reclass, Amiibos/Generic teams could be utilized?

...this PvP stuff is looking very promising though. Anyone seen any more info or videos of it yet? :0

[JCMserene]

So the issue with this is hacking, or the backlash of hacking the the inheriting system. The big thing are the four big skills: Dragon Fang; Hoshidan Unity; Nohrian Trust, and (the worst of all) Aptitude. With the existence of the 'Aptitude Sickness,' limited battles are impossible to be completely inclusive, since anyone who has hacked aptitude on characters has a distinct advantage. You can even max stats at level 1 of an advanced class with careful planning. So limited is a no go.

With the whole inheritance thing (as well as Corrin's preferred class); you can't fully block skills for characters. Which makes the idea of only allowing a character's personal skills they can get, as well as DLC skills (for instance, Odin has access to Sorcerer, Dark Knight, Swordmaster, and Master of Arms, so he would only be able to equip skills from those classes, as well as any and all DLC skills). Another idea is to first check their S-ranks to see if they have access to the skills they are using, with a little bit of wiggle room for A+support. The only character that should be able to use any skill is Corrin, although with the first recommended set they should only have access to the Prince(ss)/Noble skills and ONE class and its promotions (as well as DLC of course)

With weapons, I'd say simply just don't use forged weapons. The only problem with that are the relics, so Ryoma and Corrin have a distinct advantage, and therefor gives Hoshido and Valla paths a big bonus over Nohr. So the relic weapons are pretty much up on the air. The two seals should be banned as well.

Skills should definitely be limited (case in point replicate). Also, the Rescue+Warp combo should be banned, as it allows for an easy win. Both are fine by themselves and perfectly balanced, but together are completely unfair.

Edited April 28, 2016 by JCMserene

[Roflolxp54]

Some possible formats/rules:

-Certain castle types banned (like ban the Izumite castle type or ban the Nestrian castle type)

-Character statues banned

-Guest units (Prisoners, Einherjars, amiibo, bond units) banned

-Story units banned

-Illegitimate skills and weapons banned

-DLC content banned

-Nohr vs. Nohr; Hoshido vs. Hoshido; Valla vs. Valla

-Turret buildings banned

-Birthright/Conquest/Revelation story characters only (ie. Birthright characters only on a Valla team)

-Class skills only

-All Skills banned

-No Brave weapons

-Bronze/Iron/Steel weapons only

Edited April 28, 2016 by Roflolxp54

[Xenomata]

What about bonus damage and special effect staves?

Kaden, Keaton, Velouria, Selkie, and Kanas born of those units all have natural beastslayer weaknesses, not counting any units who ride horses and Pegasus/Kinshi. The avatar, Kana, and anyone else the avatar is the mother/father of also have natural dragonslayer weaknesses not counting Wyvern Riders. A max stat lodestar avatar still took a lot of damage from a single hit from an unforged Dragon Spirit.

And staves. Hexing Rod, Silence, Bifrost (maybe), the one that prevents moving, etc.

[Roflolxp54]

Other possible rules/formats:

-No Emblem/Seal items

-No unique and S-rank weapons (Yato, Waterwheel, Hagakure Blade, Raijinto, etc.)

-No random critical hits (cannot use weapons that allow for critical hits; no crit boosting skills like Death Blow)

-Guard Stance/Bold Stance banned

-Anything Goes

-No forged weapons

-amiibo units only (if you want something like a 4v4 death match)

-bond units only

-Rout the enemy only (cannot seize the castle; if you seize, you lose the battle automatically according to the competition, regardless of what the game screen says)

-Lilith, Puppets, and Golems banned

-Up to (letter rank) weapons allowed

Edited April 28, 2016 by Roflolxp54

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Unique and S rank weapon isn't broken enough to warrant a ban i think. I think the most possible centralizing weapon would be the Braves more than anything else followed by Rescue

The meta in reddit PvP tourney seems to be Speed Stacking Falcon Knight Kinshi Knight rushdown, which is basically auto win for any 1st turn goer who can kill off Azura/Rallyer like Laslow in t1

Of course Falcon Knight is such an Auto win class in general really

Edited April 28, 2016 by JSND

[Integrity]

since discussion popped back up i'm going to leave this unlocked but mate

[cgRIPPER]

(1)So the issue with this is hacking, or the backlash of hacking the the inheriting system. The big thing are the four big skills: Dragon Fang; Hoshidan Unity; Nohrian Trust, and (the worst of all) Aptitude. With the existence of the 'Aptitude Sickness,' limited battles are impossible to be completely inclusive, since anyone who has hacked aptitude on characters has a distinct advantage. You can even max stats at level 1 of an advanced class with careful planning. So limited is a no go.

With the whole inheritance thing (as well as Corrin's preferred class); you can't fully block skills for characters. Which makes the idea of only allowing a character's personal skills they can get, as well as DLC skills (for instance, Odin has access to Sorcerer, Dark Knight, Swordmaster, and Master of Arms, so he would only be able to equip skills from those classes, as well as any and all DLC skills). Another idea is to first check their S-ranks to see if they have access to the skills they are using, with a little bit of wiggle room for A+support. The only character that should be able to use any skill is Corrin, although with the first recommended set they should only have access to the Prince(ss)/Noble skills and ONE class and its promotions (as well as DLC of course)

(2)With weapons, I'd say simply just don't use forged weapons. The only problem with that are the relics, so Ryoma and Corrin have a distinct advantage, and therefor gives Hoshido and Valla paths a big bonus over Nohr. So the relic weapons are pretty much up on the air. The two seals should be banned as well.

Skills should definitely be limited (case in point replicate). Also, the Rescue+Warp combo should be banned, as it allows for an easy win. Both are fine by themselves and perfectly balanced, but together are completely unfair.

(1) I agree, to compare it to Pokemon, you'd think that limited is like the ruleset where the pokemon get scaled down to 50, but that isn't the case due to aptitude/plain old level resets. Being able to grind for competitive play seems unfair to people who don't want to dump hundreds of hours into a multiplayer file, but it equalizes the randomness of fire emblem level ups quite well.

(2) Perhaps we could come up with a list of maximum forge levels to use for each specific weapon. For example, a Bronze Sword would be allowed up to +5, but an Iron Sword only up to +4. It'd be a ton of work, but it would help to shrink the gap between characters who have unique weapons and characters who don't.

What about bonus damage and special effect staves?

Kaden, Keaton, Velouria, Selkie, and Kanas born of those units all have natural beastslayer weaknesses, not counting any units who ride horses and Pegasus/Kinshi. The avatar, Kana, and anyone else the avatar is the mother/father of also have natural dragonslayer weaknesses not counting Wyvern Riders. A max stat lodestar avatar still took a lot of damage from a single hit from an unforged Dragon Spirit.

And staves. Hexing Rod, Silence, Bifrost (maybe), the one that prevents moving, etc.

Maybe limit the number of allowed bonus damage weapons on a team. For example, if a player gives a beast slayer to 1 of their lance users, they wouldn't be able to give out another beastslayer, dragon spirit, wyrmslayer, etc. to any of the other units they are using on the team. They wouldn't be able to change equipment by the time they find out which weakness is more prominent on the other team.

[Based Goomy]

I'd say that only Revelations should have a true metagame, since you get all the units AND the option to grind endlessly. Conquest would be left in the dust.

[Busterman64]

While I don't own the game yet...I think this is a pretty cool idea! Although, balancing will take some serious work though(...but you probably heard and know that already)!

A few of my ideas(sorry if it's already been suggested):

-Limiting Weapon selection would be one good way since some weapons would just destroy a team big time like Brave weapons or special/legendary weapons.

-No dlc stuff, especially Dark Fliers because if they are anything like they are in Awakening...no fun will be had...

-Limit the number of royals you can have. I'm pretty sure people like Xander and Ryoma(probably misspelled that) will be incredably strong by endgame(I may be wrong), so limit how many royals can be on your team. That includes Corrin(if you can choose to have him not participate). You can have one royal lead the team.

-No skills from other classes that aren't in a character's original promotion path (because I think I heard a skill called Copycat is broken). If they have one, they MUST unequip it!

-Your team must be completely made up of Gen.1 units or Gen.2 units. No mixture.

-You can only have weapons/tomes/staffs and healing items with you. No stat boosting items(whether they be permanent or temporary)!

......that's all I got for now. Not sure how to handle the issue of grinding because besides Nohr, it's gonna be the main issue to handle...unless...maybe...

-Have a tournament for those who have grinded and for those who haven't...maybe? Hhhmmm...yeah that's gonna need some work.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The royal ban i rather pointless since majority of Royals is mediocre in PVP setting where grinding is assumed really

[Roflolxp54]

Could also do no attack skills and no random critical hits allowed to reduce some randomness of a battle.

[Rygalla]

I haven't played Multiplayer all that much , but here are some things to put into mind

Bans

Songstress class

-Songstress allows an ally unit to move again, and with certain skills equipped, can power them up as well. The only con to this class is simply the fact that Azura is the only unit that has access to this class, and she has defenses of a wet sheet of paper anyway (Sereously Azura, if a level 4 fighter can nearly take out a third of your HP while you are over 20 levels higher than it, then you got a problem).

Warp

-Warp is simply too powerful, giving the unit a free turn after teleporting to a nearby ally. Combine this with the next skill and you can have a nigh invincible army of units that can perform terrifying hit and run tactics.

Duplicate

-Duplicate allows the unit to create an exact replica of themselves, along with anything in their inventory this potently means that you can have the original five copies hang back with a healer using multi healing staves, effectively preventing the HP problem in a sense

Forged Weapons

-Forged weapons, especially +7, can be extremely powerful. as such a limit on forged weapons could be in place, such as Bronze sword can go to +7, while a Brave Sword can only go to +1 (Forge limits may be adjusted for balance reasons).

Statue Bonuses

-I have no Idea if Statues still give the stat cap bonuses in multiplayer, but if they do, it would be too unfair especially if someone who has little to no LV3 Statues goes up against someone who has all LV3 statues built...

Game Modes (Using the game's 5v5 Wireless Battle Feature)

Nihil-No Unit is allowed to have any skill equipped, excluding their personal skill.

Royal Rumble-Each player chooses a Gen 1 Royal Parent (Xander, Ryoma, Takumi...) and their retainers, the last two slots are filled with Generic, non-boss units.

Generic Rumble-Only Generic, Generic-Boss, and Generic-Einerjhar are allowed

Always Lethal-all units wield joke weapons (Pebble, Umbrella, Frying Pan...) but the only skill they have equipped is Lethality

[DLNarshen]

I advocated for the "no skills" ruleset in the past, but after experimenting some more I'm not really convinced it does much to alleviate the core issue with this game. No matter what kind of rules or restrictions one implements, Fates PvP will remain a movement-creep game; an unfortunate consequence of not having Fog of War. Removing the obvious troublemakers like DLC skills/classes and Rescue is all fine and good until one realizes that without them the game becomes a stare-down with both sides being too scared to make the first move. To me the question is less "what can we do to help balance the game?" and more "do we want a blitzkrieg or some trench warfare?". We're in for some shit either way.

If there's a middle ground somewhere that doesn't overly complicate things to the point where no one's going to bother I'm not really sure what it is yet. =(