"The Light That Shines in the Dark" - Nohr Story Discussion

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

I guess that shows that a darker story isn't always better, althought I actually sorta expected Hoshido would be the more emotional story, I mean, think about it, what's more dramatic? Fighting against sibilings you barely know or fighting against ones you knew your entire life.

Maybe if they reversed the roles of the nations, making Hoshido the "evil" nation and Nohr the"good" one the story would have been better.

Hoshido has more deaths than Nohr from what I've seen, but one thing that really bugs me with Kamui talking with his dead loved ones if you chose Hoshido is that Mikoto doesn't show up... at least Nohr shows everyone who has died and I found Kamui seeing Lilith again in Nohr more touching. Heck Elise's death is sadder to when you realize that her death in comparison to Ryoma's is senseless because it doesn't stop Kamui and Xander from

fighting. I'm still withholding judgment until after I see some translations. Check the below link for chapter 6 translated will be up later the user said and he's doing Nohr #BlameTakumi (that's his reason for picking this route).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lySxtl80yDo

[Water Mage]

Maybe the reason Corrin didn't mention Mikoto as a loved one was because he didn't spent enough time with her, to at least form some sort of bond.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Water Mage

[TheWerdna]

So question

It was mentioned that Aqua's death was handled far better in the Hoshido route. How was it handled here in comparison to there

[Aquakat]

So question

It was mentioned that Aqua's death was handled far better in the Hoshido route. How was it handled here in comparison to there

from the bit I remember, it's not a cinematic, which seems to be the source of the complaint. You go visit her by a lake, she tells you to look away or close your eyes, and then she's gone by the time you open them? ...Which, not gonna lie, I prefer much more if so. The one for Hoshido was nice, but I like quieter death scenes when the character knows it's coming. It just seems more dignified.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Aquakat

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

Maybe the reason Corrin didn't mention Mikoto as a loved one was because he didn't spent enough time with her, to at least form some sort of bond.

Except the problem is that she does show up when Kamui's unconscious in Nohr as we see her first along with Ryoma followed up with Takumi and Lilith. The fact that she doesn't show up in the other one is a huge problem I have with Hoshido.

[DualMix]

Alright, I'll say what I've said before on another thread for Hoshido.

I'm not gonna lie, as I played through the Nohr route, I just felt disconnected. Kamui in Hoshido is a redeemable person and the characters are really fun to use while in Nohr, I didn't really enjoy the supports or the plot as much.

Now don't get me wrong, Nohr has a good story. I just didn't find it that good. I thought Kamui would rebel but he didn't. I enjoyed King Garon and characters like Zero and Azura but.... I dunno, one of the things that turned me off from Nohr were the Awakening children. I didn't like them. Luna was still a tsundere and didn't have a different character, while Lazard and Odin were... differentish. (I killed off Matoi eventually.)

So yeah... Overall, Hoshido was a better experience for me, at least.

[TheWerdna]

from the bit I remember, it's not a cinematic, which seems to be the source of the complaint. You go visit her by a lake, she tells you to look away or close your eyes, and then she's gone by the time you open them? ...Which, not gonna lie, I prefer much more if so. The one for Hoshido was nice, but I like quieter death scenes when the character knows it's coming. It just seems more dignified.

That seems kinda lame, is there even any explanation given?

[Water Mage]

Except the problem is that she does show up when Kamui's unconscious in Nohr as we see her first along with Ryoma followed up with Takumi and Lilith. The fact that she doesn't show up in the other one is a huge problem I have with Hoshido.

Maybe they wanted to make the scene with only Nohr characters and Lilith, and vice versa ? But I do agree that Mikoto should have appeared in both.

[Frelia]

Well that is really disappointing. I will still do Nohr after or before Hoshido, but from what I am seeing in this thread it is really disappointing that things weren't handled as well as they could have. I am not always a fan of naive characters especially if they are the main character. With Kamui though it could also be because of how abusive Garon is.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Eevonee

[Aquakat]

That seems kinda lame, is there even any explanation given?

You mean for the death itself? It's the song. Each time she sings the song, she's killing herself little by little. In the Hoshido route, she collapses right then and there, not even making it to Ryoma's coronation, and you somehow speak to her ghost during the epilogue. IF I am interpreting/remembering correctly, though, she makes it to the epilogue of Nohr's path, but having to sing the song finally takes its toll? idk, someone who actually played can probably give you a much better explanation.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I recommend if you are getting both games to play Nohr first. I did it this way, and personally felt it helped make Hoshido more emotional, as those you spent time with for an entire game are now your enemy, and their harsh words at your betrayal will sink in even deeper. xD I don't think the same effect would happen the other way around because Nohr's emotional moments do not compare as much to the Hoshido ones even if you didn't play Nohr first...

Not really, that seems to be a third path thing. It was in the early chapters, but then neither path addressed it at all after the split.

Keep in mind that if the OP is posting out flaws on the story and such, it certainly is not an attack on the game. : )

Kamui apologized, but Garon ordered to be executed by Marx on the spot anyway. After much deliberation, Kamui managed to wiggle their way out. So he was beaten into subservience by the constant in fear of being executed the rest of the game from then on. xD It's what they keep using to get them to do what Garon wants. Garon too uses them as a tool for this reason.

It's not so much a train wreck as it is weaker than the Hoshido story in several aspects. : )

I am sure there are cultural differences with respect to authority (and especially family). This would be considered both. But I am sure it is not the sole factor in shaping it to be this way. That, and why would they place these values in the western oriented culture? It makes sense if Garon were a Hoshidian King, but...

I suppose you could say it's in Kamui's blood. xD

Unfortunately it was not that. It was more Garon (and Macbeth/Iago) make Kamui's life miserable because they're quite the pushover. xD

1 - I would say naive, more than that. xD Fitting given the upbringing

2 - This is unfortunately true. Kamui under threat of execution due to treason, and the siblings because they believe it is right.

3 - They could not even think about turning against their father until they saw he...was just a glob of goo and not their father at all

4 - Kamui invades Hoshido to speed up the invasion as much as possible to get Garon to sit on the throne. They aimed to subdue some of the Hoshido siblings but gets them killed anyway. They naively thought that it would be like Sakura (who they capture fine and alive), but then things take a bad turn when Garon orders them to kill the older siblings in front of him.

So Kamui's invasion was built on naive ideals, rather than the reality that Garon may take sadistic pleasure in watching Kamui suffer. xD

I do certainly plan on playing Nohr first regardless. Im just really in love with the characters and aesthetic. Perhaps thats what the devs were going for? Make you attached to Nohr's characters, but feel like the story and decisions arent enough. Get you to play Hoshido, feel even worse at times, it may be better storywise but not enough? Then get you to play the Third Path where everything can come up basically roses? /shrug Huee...thats kinda the order i plan on doing the routes.

My issue is that Kamui on Nohr seems woefully naive and...thats not what i had in mind for my MU. I dont self project, i project a character i came up with just for this game. RIP me. Maybe ill just have my MU justify it by dubious means.

[Sire]

It is a shame that impressions for Nohr's story paint it in a lesser light to Hoshido's, with all that marketing about complexity and revolutions. I wonder what story Nohr would be if that little "Sakura Faceless" rumor was actually true. If that did actually happen, it might have been the "wake up call" needed to kickstart the revolution (preferably early on and not when all of Hoshido is already conquered). Alas, I guess that is just another "What If" situation for Fire Emblem: Fates.

On the flip side, Hoshido does pit the player avatar against the siblings the player was raised with. Perhaps because I am still partial to Nohr's characters (I happen to like the Awakening kids and the Nohr family more than the Hoshido family), so it may be when stuff happens to them, it has more of an impact for me. When stuff happens to Hoshido, I am a bit more indifferent.

Back to the Nohr campaign though, it still seems to have the better gameplay with the varied mission objectives and such, so perhaps that might help a bit when considering Nohr's disappointing storyline. Perhaps the localisation may take come "creative liberties" to improve the Nohr storyline somewhat, but at this rate, I just hope that the 3rd route delivers on being the "ultimate story". From what little I've seen, it looks cool, but individual plot points do not necessarily make for an awesome storyline.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Sire

[Aquakat]

You know, now that I'm sorta glancing through (emphasis on glancing; I'm doing this in the middle of studying and I don't understand Japanese), it feels like Kamui is equally naive in both sides? It's just that in Hoshido it WORKS? And in Nohr, it doesn't. A lot. And part of it could be simply instinctive falling back fearful sort of deals that you often see in abuse victims (this is why the question of 'well, if they're being abusive, why not just leave?' is such a headache). You could probably make a similar argument for the Nohr siblings.

It could also simply being fire emblem being like "here's your idealistic protagonist who slowly turns into a well-intentioned extremist and here's the resultant blood bath you have to make so you get enough clout and loyalty to revolutionize things." ...Actually, if that's the case, I'll be happier.

Or I could just be grasping. idk. I'm tired and sick of studying.

[nordopolica]

I actually cannot wait for the third path, which I didn't think I'd say. I thought I would be satisfied with Nohr and not really be fazed by the other two. Don't get me wrong, I loved Nohr, flaws and all, mostly because I like the Nohr characters better than the Hoshido ones and I kind of dig the naive protagonist Eirika-esque thing going on, but the third path looks like it will marry the two storylines into a "complete" (I hesitate to say that, because it's not like the two others feel incomplete) FE game and I can pair Ryouma and Camilla.

EDIT: I'm also reminded of a lot of game story climaxes which I've been disappointed in where it seems to emphasise powerlessness above all else, in that Kamui is powerless to save a lot of people despite what they want, which I think prompted me to want to play the third path so bad.

Edited July 1, 2015 by nordopolica

[Icy Toast]

I thought it was dumb.

I agree. The premise for the Nohr route was really quite cool, but the execution was just terrible.

The whole thing with the crystal ball was simply ridiculous. Aqua doesn't even bother giving Kamui a half decent explanation of what exactly Garon is, and what's worse is that Kamui doesn't even bother asking. It should have been a key moment in the story, as it's this very moment that gives Kamui a justification for conquering Hoshido, but the whole thing ends up feeling like nothing more than a terribly contrived excuse on the part of the writers.

It also really irked me how, if we ignore the ridiculous reasoning for a moment, even though Kamui realizes at this point in the story that he must 'walk an evil path' to attain his goals (i.e. to defeat Garon and end the war), his behaviour after this point never really reflects that awareness. Instead, he goes about fighting the troops of an allied nation and parts of his own Nohrian army because their methods don't quite match with his own ideals. The whole, 'walking the evil path for the greater good' theme is forgotten because the writers are too preoccupied with showing us how incredibly noble and chivalrous Kamui and his friends are. And ironically it ends up making him look like a complete idiot for doing all of these things when he's supposed to be marching on the Hoshidan capital and put an end to the war as quickly as possible.

I also dislike how many of the battles on the Nohr route seem utterly irrelevant to the plot at large. Nohrian troops are already at the Hoshidan border in chapter 6, when Mikoto is no longer there to prevent them from entering Hoshido, but somehow it takes until chapter 22 for the actual invasion to begin. The duchies and clans that we have to deal with in the meanwhile never manage to feel like compelling story arcs of their own because they typically only take one chapter each, and, more importantly, the game provides us with very little background information on each of them. When Garon tells us to put down a rebellion in some distant duchy, the game doesn't even bother to tell us what the relationship between Nohr and this duchy is. There's hardly any proper world building going on. Each of the places we visit before finally entering Hoshido has its own name and aesthetic features, but that's really all there is to these places. There seems to be no effort on the part of the writers to make us care about what happens there.

Yep...I'm still really excited for all paths however. It's clear to see how much work that IS put into these games, and despite its flaws, I know that FEif will be a standout among its predecessors. :)

There are many aspects of FEif that could be called outstanding, but I'm sorry to say that the story on the Nohr side simply isn't one of them. Edited July 1, 2015 by Icy Toast

[Iron Griffin]

^
^
Ryouma x Camilla huh? Sounds like a match made in hell. XD

Edited July 1, 2015 by Iron Griffin

[Loki Laufeyson]

You know, now that I'm sorta glancing through (emphasis on glancing; I'm doing this in the middle of studying and I don't understand Japanese), it feels like Kamui is equally naive in both sides? It's just that in Hoshido it WORKS? And in Nohr, it doesn't. A lot. And part of it could be simply instinctive falling back fearful sort of deals that you often see in abuse victims (this is why the question of 'well, if they're being abusive, why not just leave?' is such a headache). You could probably make a similar argument for the Nohr siblings.

It could also simply being fire emblem being like "here's your idealistic protagonist who slowly turns into a well-intentioned extremist and here's the resultant blood bath you have to make so you get enough clout and loyalty to revolutionize things." ...Actually, if that's the case, I'll be happier.

Or I could just be grasping. idk. I'm tired and sick of studying.

Gosh, i really hope they localize it that way. If they do, it would actually pretty awesome. Cuz the point of these stories is basically: You are in a situation. Things are not as rosy as they seem. You must make a choice. You make that choice and must reap what you sew. You make more choices and face the consequences. If the game literally declares you a naive kid at the end of it, thats just a cop out. But if the game calls you out and says "Kamui had to make these choices because they felt them just despite everything." its better writing and more impactful all round.

Ill root for it.

You lot can tell i am placing a lot of faith in the localization team.

[HK Motendra]

Disclaimer, I know little to nothing of Nohr's story, but let me try to put things into perspective here from what I've seen in this thread.

If Kamui were to actually rebel against King Garon, that'd actually prove to be disadvantageous on his part, for having to be outlawed in Nohr, like Silas would have in Hoshido's route, along with knowing that he still has Hoshido to worry about as well. Kamui'd be fighting against two fronts, and without a nation, or army of his own to measure up, eventually, they'd fall under the weight of both. Or even worse, Hoshido could take advantage of the revolt, strike back and ultimately demolish Nohr just like that.

Granted, Kamui most likely would have the help of his siblings, but while they have subordinates, Garon has the entire nation under his wing, which, if he wanted, could have all 5 of them executed right then and there. But I suppose that possibility alone would have been enough to have made it far more interesting and with the powers of Lord Diplomacy, could actually convince the people of Nohr to rally under his lead. So all in all, the only thing I could say, as an uninformed opinion, is that Kamui shouldn't have tried to do it all by himself. Thats just my take, anyway. Make of it what you will

[Aquakat]

Gosh, i really hope they localize it that way. If they do, it would actually pretty awesome. Cuz the point of these stories is basically: You are in a situation. Things are not as rosy as they seem. You must make a choice. You make that choice and must reap what you sew. You make more choices and face the consequences. If the game literally declares you a naive kid at the end of it, thats just a cop out. But if the game calls you out and says "Kamui had to make these choices because they felt them just despite everything." its better writing and more impactful all round.

Ill root for it.

You lot can tell i am placing a lot of faith in the localization team.

...I'm more or less surprised that ramble was coherent enough to be understood? XD ah well. I'm far more forgiving of a bad story with great characters than a good story with bad characters. Not that I thought the Hoshido chars were bad. I just... didn't connect. And I still don't with supports, except in the supports where they're chatting with NOHR characters.

But it seems like the whole point of the games is 'idealism only works if you forge your own path and not take the obvious choices'. Idealistic Kamui in Nohr is an invader. Idealistic Kamui in Hoshido has a LOT of deaths, especially for a path that isn't strictly invading. Third path still has deaths, but much less.

Disclaimer, I know little to nothing of Nohr's story, but let me try to put things into perspective here from what I've seen in this thread.

If Kamui were to actually rebel against King Garon, that'd actually prove to be disadvantageous on his part, for having to be outlawed in Nohr, like Silas would have in Hoshido's route, along with knowing that he still has Hoshido to worry about as well. Kamui'd be fighting against two fronts, and without a nation, or army of his own to measure up, eventually, they'd fall under the weight of both. Or even worse, Hoshido could take advantage of the revolt, strike back and ultimately demolish Nohr just like that.

Granted, Kamui most likely would have the help of his siblings, but while they have subordinates, Garon has the entire nation under his wing, which, if he wanted, could have all 5 of them executed right then and there. But I suppose that possibility alone would have been enough to have made it far more interesting and with the powers of Lord Diplomacy, could actually convince the people of Nohr to rally under his lead. So all in all, the only thing I could say, as an uninformed opinion, is that Kamui shouldn't have tried to do it all by himself. Thats just my take, anyway. Make of it what you will

Related to this. Azura's Nohr supports implicitly show that Hoshido is ACTIVELY SENDING ASSASSINS after Kamui in the Nohr path. So, literally, once you pick Nohr, the only things standing between you and death are your subordinates and allies. Your very small group of allies when compared to the size of Nohr's army which Garon controls with an iron fist. Garon, who even your brave, brave siblings are terrified of. (Elise's supports with Leon seem to imply also that Leon is just old enough to remember the real Garon, who would smile and give them praises, but SHE isn't, and can't even imagine it; Xander's supports with Kamui also show how he used to be frustrated because he wants what's best for the country, but he's been raised to believe his father's word is law.)

Edited July 1, 2015 by Aquakat

[Loki Laufeyson]

...I'm more or less surprised that ramble was coherent enough to be understood? XD ah well. I'm far more forgiving of a bad story with great characters than a good story with bad characters. Not that I thought the Hoshido chars were bad. I just... didn't connect. And I still don't with supports, except in the supports where they're chatting with NOHR characters.

But it seems like the whole point of the games is 'idealism only works if you forge your own path and not take the obvious choices'. Idealistic Kamui in Nohr is an invader. Idealistic Kamui in Hoshido has a LOT of deaths, especially for a path that isn't strictly invading. Third path still has deaths, but much less.

oh man i just noticed a stupid misspell in my post but im not arsed to change it lmao.

I totally get this because Hoshido looks cool but im not connecting with the characters very much if at all. Im not happy with a bad story with good characters though. I get mad because the great characterization makes me think theres no excuse for the bad story. *sigh* Im in denial about Nohr right now lalalala

[sforzur]

Rather than a proper review, this will likely read as a rant, as I loved the story they promised us and was heavily disappointed by how falsely advertised it was. The maps were fun, and the characters quickly grew on me, but the plot was underwhelming.

The plan Aqua proposed was so terrible. I'm still really peeved Kamui agreed to go along with it, especially because it goes against everything they were working for up until that moment. How does "I want to settle this war with minimal losses." become "Let's conquer an entire kingdom just to get my dad to sit on a chair and prove a point to my siblings."? They don't object at all? They couldn't have even attempted to discuss it with their siblings beforehand, even if unsuccessful? It was jarring. It's not even like the siblings are completely blind to Garon's wrongdoings -- they all express their disagreement and decide to help behind the scenes -- but then it... goes nowhere. The dancing scene should have been a turning point in the story; it was the perfect place to finally have the siblings defy Garon -- all of the development led to it -- and yet... instead we got Aqua's course of action.

A few fetch quests and errands would have been okay for the first few chapters, but it became repetitive and frustrating after so long. Ganz and Macbeth were annoying; I wanted nothing more than to kill them off. In fact, I fully expected Leon to do it, too, or for Kamui to at least learn from the time when said brother murdered the Izana imposter (whose name escapes me) specifically to shut him up, but alas. Disappointing.

So much just didn't make sense. Arg. I'll never let go how idiotic Aqua's strategy is. All I could do was cringe the closer the ending inched because I kept hoping someone would finally suggest something more logical, but they never did. Such a terrible, terrible plan. I was under the impression "stopping the war" was forcing the two to make peace, not win it.

The game was heavily Hoshido-biased; they keep stressing how siding with Nohr was the "incorrect path". It might have been better if they had employed two different writers to avoid something like this.

[UnknownUber]

So Takumi is the final boss? What? Explain please?

Why is Ganz even allowed to fucking live or work with Kamui. Considering he almost killed (Since apparently Gunter comes back how, I don't know...) Garon's best soldier at the time. Y'know if the outcome of all of this was that Kamui turned evil or completely took over Hoshido/Nohr, I wouldn't have a problem with the way the story turned out....

[TheWerdna]

You mean for the death itself? It's the song. Each time she sings the song, she's killing herself little by little. In the Hoshido route, she collapses right then and there, not even making it to Ryoma's coronation, and you somehow speak to her ghost during the epilogue. IF I am interpreting/remembering correctly, though, she makes it to the epilogue of Nohr's path, but having to sing the song finally takes its toll? idk, someone who actually played can probably give you a much better explanation.

Can someone whose played it explain in detail, as I know I will be kinda pissed if its sorta glossed over in the Nohr route but given tons of attention in the Hoshido route.

[Kirokan]

Ah...big post incoming people as I reply to quite a few!

But as a general disclaimer, I understood a good 80-90% of the dialogue, and I don't think it will help people who are waiting for the translations to think any different of the overall flaws they already saw even without understanding. : ) Of course, this is a value judgement as it's hard to rate a story objectively!

...Well, this is going to be interesting, as I... really didn't like Hoshido from what I saw. Like, it was good, please don't get me wrong, but it was pretty rare I was surprised by anything, even without knowing what they were saying, and even the support conversations aren't making me really interested in the characters aside from a small handful. Elise and Xander deaths hit hard, but that was probably the only time it got a reaction out of me? Oh dear...

That's perfectly fine. : ) No need to worry about stating how you felt about it. That part was probably the heaviest, and especially after Nohr path. There was not too much else going on in there,

I guess that shows that a darker story isn't always better, althought I actually sorta expected Hoshido would be the more emotional story, I mean, think about it, what's more dramatic? Fighting against sibilings you barely know or fighting against ones you knew your entire life.
Maybe if they reversed the roles of the nations, making Hoshido the "evil" nation and Nohr the"good" one the story would have been better.

I wonder why it's considered darker. I think, like how it was advertised as the more "complex" story, it really isn't. A lot of random civilians get slaughtered as do others who surrendered and such, and there is suicide, sure. But the other path has quite a bit of death and especially the death of an innocent. If Nohr had killed Sakura among other things, then it certainly may have been darker.

I recall someone saying it was the darkest game in the series, but I think FE4 (and even FE12's side story) has it beat in that regard...

I largely agree with you, judging from what I know about the plot so far.

Honestly, after all the promotion of Nohr's story being so very exceptional in contrast to Hoshido's standard we-get-invaded-and-fight-back-stuff, I'm kind of disappointed with what we got:

Mindlessly following evil slime dad's order's even though it's totally obvious that he's a bad guy. Yay.

Considering the whole "light in the darkness"-business, Kamui doesn't do enough to stand up to this reputation. Because well, he mainly seems to just roll along with what's going on.

And if the part about Aqua's crystal ball first showing the truth about Garon and then exploding is true, so that Kamui actually decides that he can't talk with his siblings to convince them, but needs to push the invasion even further in order to reach the Hoshiadan throne faster...

I hope this is explained in some good way that I don't know about yet, or it is one of the dumbest plot devices I ever heard of.

I can definitely see both. :)

But yeah, Kamui is terribly naive in the Nohr route. And this makes quite a bit of the problems/drama seem to be avoidable.

All in all, I dunno. I guess I'll just have to wait for the translation.

Or maybe I'll do another post about what I was hoping for the story to be later on.

As I said at the top, I really don't think a translation will help you... it may at most make a few characters better, but it will not change the overall concepts that are being discussed, or the execution of important events. : )

It's funny how Nohr was advertised to have the more 'complex' story compared to Hoshido's more 'traditional' story when looking at this Nohr's story seems like a giant mess.

Not gonna change my views of the Nohrian characters though, still love them all to death.

Yep, a lot of people here mentioned issue with story more than characters alone. No worries!

So question

It was mentioned that Aqua's death was handled far better in the Hoshido route. How was it handled here in comparison to there

In Nohr, she just disappears with a brief scene again in the ending. In Hoshido, they mention often that her singing is causing her to fade, and she eventually does entrusting the future to Kamui. So there is more exposure in the Hoshido route

I do certainly plan on playing Nohr first regardless. Im just really in love with the characters and aesthetic. Perhaps thats what the devs were going for? Make you attached to Nohr's characters, but feel like the story and decisions arent enough. Get you to play Hoshido, feel even worse at times, it may be better storywise but not enough? Then get you to play the Third Path where everything can come up basically roses? /shrug Huee...thats kinda the order i plan on doing the routes.

My issue is that Kamui on Nohr seems woefully naive and...thats not what i had in mind for my MU. I dont self project, i project a character i came up with just for this game. RIP me. Maybe ill just have my MU justify it by dubious means.

I worry the third path will be the happiest. It has the potential to be the most tragic, but all signs lead to an "all's well all's happy" ending. : \

Agreed on how to make you feel after doing one or the other. From now on for people intending to play both, I will recommend the Nohr path.

You know, now that I'm sorta glancing through (emphasis on glancing; I'm doing this in the middle of studying and I don't understand Japanese), it feels like Kamui is equally naive in both sides? It's just that in Hoshido it WORKS? And in Nohr, it doesn't. A lot. And part of it could be simply instinctive falling back fearful sort of deals that you often see in abuse victims (this is why the question of 'well, if they're being abusive, why not just leave?' is such a headache). You could probably make a similar argument for the Nohr siblings.

It could also simply being fire emblem being like "here's your idealistic protagonist who slowly turns into a well-intentioned extremist and here's the resultant blood bath you have to make so you get enough clout and loyalty to revolutionize things." ...Actually, if that's the case, I'll be happier.

Or I could just be grasping. idk. I'm tired and sick of studying.

I would say Kamui is much less naive in Hoshido. Kamui resolves on defeating Marx and Garon, even if it means killing them, fairly early in the game. Kamui becomes more ruthless in Hoshido too, murdering an entire Nohrian training grounds' troops to get a chance at Ganz, and coldly takes him down too. Same went for Macbeth/Iago as well. Ironically, Kamui is darker in Hoshido than they are in Nohr. And this is when fighting people they know!

Rather than a proper review, this will likely read as a rant, as I loved the story they promised us and was heavily disappointed by how falsely advertised it was. The maps were fun, and the characters quickly grew on me, but the plot was underwhelming.

The plan Aqua proposed was so terrible. I'm still really peeved Kamui agreed to go along with it, especially because it goes against everything they were working for up until that moment. How does "I want to settle this war with minimal losses." become "Let's conquer an entire kingdom just to get my dad to sit on a chair and prove a point to my siblings."? They don't object at all? They couldn't have even attempted to discuss it with their siblings beforehand, even if unsuccessful? It was jarring. It's not even like the siblings are completely blind to Garon's wrongdoings -- they all express their disagreement and decide to help behind the scenes -- but then it... goes nowhere. The dancing scene should have been a turning point in the story; it was the perfect place to finally have the siblings defy Garon -- all of the development led to it -- and yet... instead we got Aqua's course of action.

A few fetch quests and errands would have been okay for the first few chapters, but it became repetitive and frustrating after so long. Ganz and Macbeth were annoying; I wanted nothing more than to kill them off. In fact, I fully expected Leon to do it, too, or for Kamui to at least learn from the time when said brother murdered the Izana imposter (whose name escapes me) specifically to shut him up, but alas. Disappointing.

So much just didn't make sense. Arg. I'll never let go how idiotic Aqua's strategy is. All I could do was cringe the closer the ending inched because I kept hoping someone would finally suggest something more logical, but they never did. Such a terrible, terrible plan. I was under the impression "stopping the war" was forcing the two to make peace, not win it.

The game was heavily Hoshido-biased; they keep stressing how siding with Nohr was the "incorrect path". It might have been better if they had employed two different writers to avoid something like this.

Yes, I really, really felt they didn't go for an equal view, and instead said "This is Nohr, why'd you choose this path? Everybody is evil here. This is Hoshido, look at it! Shiny~~~"

Totally agreed on Aqua too. She just up and suggested that plan... and just like that and they go.

So Takumi is the final boss? What? Explain please?

Why is Ganz even allowed to fucking live or work with Kamui. Considering he almost killed (Since apparently Gunter comes back how, I don't know...) Garon's best soldier at the time. Y'know if the outcome of all of this was that Kamui turned evil or completely took over Hoshido/Nohr, I wouldn't have a problem with the way the story turned out....

[spoiiler] Takumi was not actually the final boss, it was a phantom apparition created by the lingering hate and grief he felt toward Kamui. The actually Takumi had died, which is why you see him with Ryouma and such.

As for Ganz, it's because Garon keeps pardoning him. Gunther came back because the Infinite Chasm lead to that other dimensional plane where Aqua and Kamui found him and brought him back.

I'm amazed Kamui did not break despite all this, yes. xD

Can someone whose played it explain in detail, as I know I will be kinda pissed if its sorta glossed over in the Nohr route but given tons of attention in the Hoshido route.

I wrote an entire Hoshido route story summary, if you wanted to see it.

But basically, as I answered above:

In Nohr, she just disappears with a brief scene again in the ending. Just like that, no mention. They wonder where she went, but have no idea why she disappeared. In Hoshido, they mention often that her singing is causing her to fade since earlier and the game, and promises she won't do it to the point she fades. But, she eventually does entrusting the future to Kamui, apologizing for lying to Kamui. Then in the end she is there one more time, saying she may meet Kamui again someday, somewhere. She also says "there are many other worlds we are unaware of" out there, probably hinting to the other path or third path in someway. So there is more exposure in the Hoshido route

Edited July 1, 2015 by Kirokan

[UnknownUber]

If it was really more one-sided toward Hoshido, it makes me wonder why they just didn't make Kamui straight-up evil?

Having both sides be good doesn't sit right for me on a game that's based on choice...