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EJ107

Soleil/M!Kamui's Supports are almost offensive

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I'm very happy that Fates has gay marriage options, and unlike several people I don't have much issue with Syalla or Zero being the options. I also think that their supports, for the most part, were handled well.

But despite that good will I'm still being shocked by just how badly Soleil is being handled.

Her schtick is that she really likes girls, and after reading some of her supports it becomes increasingly clear that it is not platonic. That isn't bad in itself, but the fact that she can romantically support with all of the male kids and male Kamui raises a few issues, since even those supports seem to revolve around her liking girls... somehow.

But her support path with male Kamui is the absolute worst thing. To summarise: Soleil has trouble talking to cute girls without fainting, so Kamui gives her some drug that makes her see all men in the army as girls and she falls in love with female him. I'm not even joking.

"Soleil: My reply is… of course it’s okay. There’s no other man that could make my heart tighten like this. I’ve loved you since the day I saw you as a girl."

---

EDIT: This thread has been linked to on various sites, so I want to make it clear that I have nothing to do with the translation of the support linked above. I simply found the link on Reddit and wanted to share my thoughts on it here.

Also, given how controversial this topic ended up being, I think I should probably elaborate on my own position:

I never really picked up on the connotations of the drug-slipping, and while it is pretty bad I don't think it's as awful as some make it out to be. I am honestly more bothered by the bad fanfiction-level ridiculousness of that magic powder than the way he gave it to her.

It's just how Soleil is handled as a character that bothers me. In her supports with Foleo she says that women are preferable as romance partners but men are ok, which is fair enough. I have no issue believing that shes a bisexual person who greatly prefers women. But when she has 7+ S supports with male characters and 0 with females that's going to be an issue, or at the very least difficult to write. It could still work, if the supports were well-written, but you get stuff like "I've loved you since I saw you as a girl" or her talking endlessly about how much she likes girls and how ugly the men in the army are only to start going out with a guy at the drop of a hat.

The reason it's so stupid is how easy it would have been to avoid all this. I get that they wanted her to be a parallel of Inigo, and if they are desperate to let the Avatar romance all characters and have all opposite gender units of the same generation S rank each other then fair enough. But if you're going to do that then don't make a character who revolves entirely around how much they like other girls and vastly prefer them over men. They could have just made Soleil boy obsessed instead and her character would stay roughly the same while having support options that actually make sense.

Edited by EJ107

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I've never wanted one of these posts to be fake as much as I do right now. Someone tell me that translation is just someone trolling and the real support is completely different.

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^ Unfortunately not. I looked through the files that I have and that is indeed basically what she says in their S support. :/

It's really a shame, though. Her C-A with F!Kamui look really good.

Edited by wvype

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I'm very happy that Fates has gay marriage options, and unlike several people I don't have much issue with Syalla or Zero being the options. I also think that their supports, for the most part, were handled well.

But despite that good will I'm still being shocked by just how badly Soleil is being handled.

Her schtick is that she really likes girls, and after reading some of her supports it becomes increasingly clear that it is not platonic. That isn't bad in itself, but the fact that she can romantically support with all of the male kids and male Kamui raises a few issues, since even those supports seem to revolve around her liking girls... somehow.

But her support path with male Kamui is the absolute worst thing. To summarise: Soleil has trouble talking to cute girls without fainting, so Kamui gives her some drug that makes her see all men in the army as girls and she falls in love with female him. I'm not even joking.

"Soleil: My reply is… of course it’s okay. There’s no other man that could make my heart tighten like this. I’ve loved you since the day I saw you as a girl."

At least from i know, Soliel is male, I was confused too. At least from i know,

Edited by Dragonhunter970

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Huh, for one moment, I thought it was a hentai. Eh.

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What's especially horrible is that when he gives her the drug, it's not "oh this is what the powder is going to do, do you want to try it?". No, he just slips it into her drink.

Geez.

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^ Unfortunately not. I looked through the files that I have and that is indeed basically what she says in their S support. :/

It's really a shame, though. Her C-A with F!Kamui look really good.

:/

This whole support line is a mess. Guess I won't be completing my support log after all then.

I'm just going to pretend this support doesn't exist and that Soleil and Ophelia's A+ is actually an S, and then hope IS do better in the next game.

Edited by capmalachi

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Wow that is so bad. What made IntSys think that entire support was okay?

Edited by Eevonee

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I thought I was the only one. I mean I found the Crimson one to be dull with poor lead in to the S-Rank but damn this is painful throughout.

This is not to say the Supports in Awakening were not troublesome themselves like Tharja x Robin or the awkward supports between the latter and Sully which revolved around laxative sea weed.

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Wow that is so bad. What made IntSys think that entire support was okay?

We are talking about the same people who basically universally declared Fire Emblem's most underdressed rapist their favorite character. Also, they also thought that pedophilia, molestation, incest, heroic massburnings were okay, among other fun stuff we got in order to broaden the series' appeal.

Can anyone still imagine a line that IS would not cross?

Edited by BrightBow

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It's those last few lines that really get me.

"I can't touch your tits girl we aren't married you slut now remember that I own you so you can't talk to other guys but I know you won't because you are maybe a lesbian"

I'd be cool with them just entitrely rewriting this character to just be really good at checkers or something

Edited by gayserbeam

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We are talking about the same people who basically universally declared Fire Emblem's most underdressed rapist their favorite character. Also, they also thought that pedophilia, molestation, incest, heroic massburnings were okay, among other fun stuff we got in order to broaden the series' appeal.

Can anyone still imagine a line that IS would not cross?

I don't this is so much an example of a willingness to break taboos as much as sheer oafishness while dealing with the subject matter in question.

It's those last few lines that really get me.

"I can't touch your tits we aren't married you slut now remember that I own you so you can't talk to other guys but I know you won't because you are maybe a lesbian"

Jesus

lol, basically.

Edited by butts

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The whole thing sounds like the set up of a rape doujin. Kamui desiring Soleil slips a powerful magic drug into her drink before throughout numerous pages forces himself onto and into her until eventually her will and mind break and they marry. Trust me someone is going to read this and such a thing will come into existence. :X

No doubt that this will get jumped on in the translations for the U.S release......hopefully.

Edited by Iron Griffin

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I don't this is so much an example of a willingness to break taboos as much as sheer oafishness while dealing with the subject matter in question.

Like the subject of not giving your supposed friends drugs without explicit permission? Oafishness alone doesn't cut it here.

Heck, the way Kamui brings up the subject clearly shows that he knows that what he was doing is wrong. And that means whoever wrote this and whatever editor approved of this, knew it too.

But in all fairness, Kamui did say sorry, which makes it all better, especially when followed by the word "but". I guess his lack of respect for the boundaries of other people is a genuine character trait instead of being merely the logical consequence of the groping mechanic.

Edited by BrightBow

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Ummm.... What the Naga, IS? *Stunned silence*

I'm glad that I'm only gonna play as a female avatar.

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Well on the plus side this will probably get changed up for the localized version. I didn't hate the support necessarily, in some ways Kamui was being thoughtful towards Soleil, IS just could've gone about it in a much better way. Though I never really planned on reaching an S support with Soleil as Male Kamui anyways so I guess I'm in the clear. Chances are I'll mostly be playing a Female Kamui.

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On the not cool -o- meter that is an ELEVEN! I hope the localization team burns this to the ground and starts fresh, because this is not cool IS not cool.

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I feel like much of the dialogue for both paths. If you've seen Pieri's skinship lines, you wonder "What was the writer thinking?" You can wonder the same thing here. But then again, some things are more acceptable to the Japanese people than to us, but I don't know if this is just 100% accepted there...

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Disgusting.

I never thought I'd say this but I wouldn't mind at all if the localization team took some creative liberties with this one.

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Honestly they could salvage this in the localization if this was rewritten as a huge accident like say Kamui finds a potion belonging I don't know.....Orochi perhaps and thanks to his naïve nature and his overly caring personality thinks this could help Solei out without knowing the true effects.

My idea is in no way perfect but intentionally drugging someone like is just so wrong.

Edited by Iron Griffin

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This is... not good. I'm normally a pretty tolerant person, but this is not okay. Personally, I think you shouldn't be able to S-rank Soleil, but maybe it can still be salvaged to work. I hope the localization team is smart about this support.

Edited by Ambulz

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