Endomorph Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) It's absolutely creepy; slipping someone a drug without their consent just isn't fucking okay. Again, I think acid is a fair comparison: you're not completely incapacitating someone but you sure are messing with their view of reality. The only change is the genderswap, though. Unlike acid, which impairs your judgment and sense of reality and often leaves people crumpled into balls on the ground freaking out, she just saw kamui (and other guys) as girls. It isn't really comparable. I can agree that it's weird that he slipped it to her but it wasn't this huge monstrous thing people are acting like it was. Edited July 1, 2015 by Endomorph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Man Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 It's those last few lines that really get me. "I can't touch your tits girl we aren't married you slut now remember that I own you so you can't talk to other guys but I know you won't because you are maybe a lesbian" I'd be cool with them just entitrely rewriting this character to just be really good at checkers or something Exactly. Everything else looked fine and dandy until he said that. I'm surprised he didn't tell her to not cheat on him with girls either. I'm curious what her supports with the other guys are like. I feel like much of the dialogue for both paths. If you've seen Pieri's skinship lines, you wonder "What was the writer thinking?" You can wonder the same thing here. But then again, some things are more acceptable to the Japanese people than to us, but I don't know if this is just 100% accepted there... I'm curious. What are Pieri's skinship lines, or where can I find them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Griffin Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 ^I can't link them I am sure someone else could but just expect a whole lot of creepy Yandere style dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciarre Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 as much as i'm all for having representation, if they made soleil ungay in the localization i would be okay with that because >makes a character focused almost entirely around liking girls >romances approximately 0 of them >that mamui/soleil support is gross and makes a gimmick of the fact that she's queer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I feel a bit bad for laughing, I thought it was funny. :v When I give it better thought, though, yes it is fairly creepy. But if Soleil has a bad flirting habit like her father does, I'd be sure to tell her not to flirt with anyone else while married to me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twylis Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 http://pastebin.com/wjSVMt8w Femui support. The only thing preventing her from being a gay marriage option was the fact the writers decided that in this case, Femui is 100% straight. I defended their choices of just not-Tharja and Zero before, but I really don't think I can do that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frelia Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) ^^^^ Wow. Absolutely incredible. That support is not as awful as the support with m!Kamui, but there is still a good amount of iffy things going on in this version especially when it comes to the parts where f!Kamui reacts to how Soleil feels about other girls. Edited July 1, 2015 by Eevonee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlegan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 My only actual problem with this is that it clashes with Soleil's other supports. Her 'type' are cute girls. 'Cute girls' are her weakness. Foleo and Ophelia are cute, but she doesn't go faint beside them. Of course, Foleo's a guy and Ophelia kept running away, so maybe it's kind of justified. I think it's pretty inconsistent though (along with the 'don't flirt with guys' line because we've never seen Soleil flirt with guys?). [spoiler=Spoiler'd for a really really long rant about the 'social justice' stuff']First off, I'd like to say I'm on the 'I don't think this is too offensive but it definitely sucks' side. I can see the allusion to date rape drugs, but it's a pretty shallow comparison. From what I can tell, the similarities end at no consent. It changes Soleil's perspective on things via magic which could be argued as psychological shtick, but as Endomorph said, Kamui does nothing bad to her when it's in effect. And no, this isn't even an objective definition of 'bad'; Kamui literally apologizes and says he was just helping her before proceeding to actually try and help her [although I'll admit it was done in a really stupid way]. Soleil isn't taken advantage of and she even goes along with it. The no consent thing is still bad though. I wholeheartedly agree that there's no way that can be salvaged. Buuut the fact that it had no real negative effects alleviates it, and it kind of reminds me of Henry and Sumia's A Support. It's just magic shenanigans without lasting repercussions. No biggie. (the funny thing about it is that Soleil asks to stop practicing for a moment and Kamui says ok) Their entire A Support implies that Soleil was alright with it. In fact, their A Support is what makes this entire thing not as bad. They trained in B, Soleil tried talking to a girl in between, and A shows us the results. What's more, she even says she wants to continue the special training. Probably because of two reasons: one; she's trying to end her weakness, Kamui's doing his hardest to help her, and she wants results; two, arguably because of F!Kamui. ...Which leads us to our next point: did IS handle her character badly? I'd say 'I guess, but I have no solid basis for it'. Soleil likes girls (blatantly stated to like girls). I don't know her full character yet so I can't verify how narrow these supports make of her character, but alright, let's say she's bisexual. If so, she prefers girls. I think it's only jarring to read the S Support because for the past three, the topic's been about girls and suddenly, woah, guys. But the A Support does say she likes being around Kamui, male or female, so it's not like their marriage could be unheard of. She loved Kamui ever since she saw him as a girl. Now, she loves the guy side of him too. She loves Kamui either way, so what's so bad about that? (I'm actually really curious about this one. Can I have an explanation for this?) Now the line about touching her chest...might just be a case of fan translation. In context, I think Soleil's just saying that Kamui should feel her heartbeat? I'm not too sure about this either. Kamui's a typical 'pure' guy. I don't even think he meant anything bad with the 'treasure yourself more' line. Rather than it being some sort of slut-shaming(?), it seems more like 'I don't want to touch you because it seems immoral'. The only bad thing with this is that Kamui's projecting his ideals onto Soleil. Lastly, the whole 'you're mine so don't flirt with anyone else' thing seems really blown out of proportion. Most of the S Supports go along the lines of 'love me forever and no on else' (especially if it's Lazwinigo), so it's nothing new? Again, I think Kamui means his last line in a 'I want to be the only guy you love, and I don't think that'll be difficult to do' way more than anything. ...His dialogue in the S Support could've been much better though. I think he means well; it's just worded in a way that's easy for backlash to happen. TL;DR: These supports could be written better, but I have no major qualms with them. We're all just looking into this deeper than we should be. @Giga Man: You can see Pieri's lines here. I heard the third last line's a mistranslation though, so take it with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sforzur Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 http://pastebin.com/wjSVMt8w Femui support. The only thing preventing her from being a gay marriage option was the fact the writers decided that in this case, Femui is 100% straight. I defended their choices of just not-Tharja and Zero before, but I really don't think I can do that anymore. Aren't Soleil and Shara both in the third path, which would mean that Kamui could very much be married to a girl at the time of those supports? Or is Soleil absent for some reason? I would have marked it off as "Kamui gets embarrassed by public displays of affection in general.", but her supports with Lazwald are much calmer.At least F!Kamui's supports are leagues better than the male ones. That could have transitioned smoothly into an S support. Kamui finally attempting to woo Soleil, the latter being confused for a while until she catches on... Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Man Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 @Giga Man: You can see Pieri's lines here. I heard the third last line's a mistranslation though, so take it with a grain of salt. Lord have mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Soldier Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I agree that the lack of consent is the issue. But, I think that can easily be fixed by changing M!Kamui's lines to "did it work?" instead of "I'm sorry" and the like to make it obvious that she agreed to it beforehand. The rest of the reaction can still be put in as her adjusting to the effects of the magic and deciding that maybe it isn't such a good idea to have her only see cute girls. And S-support will be S-supports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessie Spoon Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) "You and I, we're both murderers!" <-- Is it bad that I laughed? Disappointing that Femui can't S support with Soleil, though... Edited July 2, 2015 by Tessie Spoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Soleil's looking like one of Fates' worst characters. I really hope localization fixes her, as aside from her design and support with her dad, I've seen nothing but bad things from her. This support being a prime candidate for worst support in the game, IMO. Edited July 2, 2015 by Monado Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Soldier Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Soleil's looking like one of Fates' worst characters. I really hope localization fixes her, as aside from her design and support with her dad, I've seen nothing but bad things from her. This support being a prime candidate for worst support in the game, IMO. By these bad things, do you mean her and her personality specifically? Or the things that the game and other characters do to her (as in the M!Kamui support)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 By these bad things, do you mean her and her personality specifically? Or the things that the game and other characters do to her (as in the M!Kamui support)? I mean her personality. Aside from her supports with Lazward, (which is a great support IMO) Siegbert, and Ophelia (Her supports with Siegbert and Ophelia weren't great, but they were better than the rest of I've seen), all of her supports have been irritating and disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Griffin Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 ^ Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I don't see why people have such an issue on missing out Kanna if they take the homosexual approach (good luck trying to adopt a half dragon child before somebody else does, assuming there is one out there). But yeah, this is a horrible support lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvype Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Like, even though the 'slipping it into her drink' bit wasn't meant maliciously on Kamui's part, there was literally no point to it at all. The only reason I could see that they want to include it is for Soleil to be shocked about Kamui's appearance, which could still have been achieved if Kamui had asked her beforehand whether she'd be willing to try it. I'll still be going through with this for completion's sake, but I'll probably just hurry through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamarsamar Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Good thing localization is being given roughly a year to fix this garbage. P(ick a god and p)ray they don't disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovely_pan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 ^^They may just want to be able to have a full roster of characters and be able to support with the a character that is the same sex that they are interested in real life. IS could have made Kanna have a different class set depending if they are adopted or not. Supports always seem to be a mix bag. This one was not written in a way where I find the characters' actions or in this case reactions believable. With the amount of information given in the support, it boggles my mind that Soleil would still trust mkamui after he slipped a magic potion in her drink without telling her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Man Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I think Soleil is a fine character. The fact that she does whatever she wants without concern of what others think of her is admirable to me. But, that's not completely true as she's embarrassed about her bad dancing. So, that makes her even more likeable because she strikes a balance. What I don't like is how the Kamuis treat her, and it bothers me especially because as the avatar, I should at least be able to vaguely portray my thoughts and feelings upon a character made to represent me and my actions. For them to just completely disrespect her bothers me personally. Now, I know that's difficult to achieve when you give your avatar a voice and no speaking choices, but most of the time, at least for me, it has worked in my favor in Awakening because Robin (male, specifically) had enough of a neutral disposition that I was able to be accepting of the things he said. I dunno. Call me weird on that last paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's a little sad how it's treated like a mental illness that needs to be cured. I was her mother in my Nohr run, so I should review how those supports went. Soleil's looking like one of Fates' worst characters. I really hope localization fixes her, as aside from her design and support with her dad, I've seen nothing but bad things from her. This support being a prime candidate for worst support in the game, IMO. People are wishing a lot of things for the localization to do, to the point where..pretty much everything would change. xD I wonder if changing the original meaning of the game and its characters is a good thing or a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) People are wishing a lot of things for the localization to do, to the point where..pretty much everything would change. xD I wonder if changing the original meaning of the game and its characters is a good thing or a bad thing? Meh, I'm personally fine with most of the things in Fates, it's just a localization could make her gimmick (should they have to keep it the same) better written and her dialogue could be much better. I'm all for a localization making the writing better, just not censorship. Edited July 2, 2015 by Monado Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinian Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 What I don't like is how the Kamuis treat her, and it bothers me especially because as the avatar, I should at least be able to vaguely portray my thoughts and feelings upon a character made to represent me and my actions. For them to just completely disrespect her bothers me personally. Now, I know that's difficult to achieve when you give your avatar a voice and no speaking choices, but most of the time, at least for me, it has worked in my favor in Awakening because Robin (male, specifically) had enough of a neutral disposition that I was able to be accepting of the things he said. I dunno. Call me weird on that last paragraph. I agree with that paragraph, and this is why self-inserts are a bad idea, especially when they have the ability to support EVERY single character in the game. On one end the self-insert character is bound to act in some way that goes against what the player would actually do themselves, and on the other end the character becomes bland as hell with no personality in an attempt to avoid situations of the former type. And this isn't even going into the massive amounts of player worshipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 This support could be making a statement. "Even date rapists find the skinshipping gross and morally reprehensible" But seriously, characterisation should always be quality over quantity, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the result of scraping the bottom of the barrel for support ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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